QB options

[Mongo3451]

There are two HUGE differences between that situation and the one in Chicago.

 

First, Pace can't hold Polian's jock strap. that was at the 1st or 2nd year of Polian's reign as Indy's GM, in a time where GMs and HCs got a little more breathing room to make mistakes. Oh, and on top of that, the little fact that Polian had gone to the conference championships in 5 of the previous 8 seasons, with 3 Super Bowls in that same time, one team based primarily on offense, and the other based primarily on defense. He commanded respect, and his decisions were without debate. He was not getting fired if Peyton Manning had two straight 3-13 seasons.

 

Second, none of the QBs are even considered to be on Peyton Manning's level. Nearly everyone considered Peyton Manning a can't miss prospect with virtually zero flaws. He was a legacy who had every possible skill and intangible going for him. People may have been wrong about whether Ryan Leaf was going to be better than Manning, but virtually nobody thought Manning was going to flop. All predicted him as a future pro-bowler who absolutely ripped the NCAA apart, and should have won the Heisman.

 

Ownership may buy in to the idea of a QB, but if it were as easy as you state, every HC in trouble and with a QB issue would just say, "Hey, we have to draft a QB in the first, and it'll take at least a season before he's ready to start," thereby ensuring the HC of at least one more year.

Polian has nothing to do with it. It all hinges on the relationship Pace has with the brass. The Mccaskeys seem like people that would be receptive to the conversion. Also, had Polian taken Leaf would you still use the argument of can't miss? He was the one with most upside according to experts.

 

Trubisky and Kizer have all the tools to succeed, they just lack experience.

[AZ54]

I'm a diehard Hawkeye fan and I wouldn't touch Beathard. I can't even figure out why people refer to him and the NFL draft. I mean I don't see a problem drafting him to see if he can be backup, but using a 6th or 7th round pick to address a major QB need is not the answer.

 

I'm a Iowa State Cyclones fan and I always felt like Beathard was helping to level the playing field. Too bad he can't stay another year.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I'm a Iowa State Cyclones fan and I always felt like Beathard was helping to level the playing field. Too bad he can't stay another year.

He had worthless receivers this past year, but he also looked nothing of the part of being an NFL QB. Ricky Stanzi looked a lot more the part (when I think of Iowa QB's) and he didn't do much in the NFL.

[AZ54]

From everything Im reading is this class is below average and have yet to here anybody call the top 3 a franchise quarterback. just because you draft a 2nd round rated QB higher doesnt make him a first round franchise QB. You are right most franchise QBs are drafted high, but they come out with fanfare, Manning, Luck, Ben Roethlisberger.

 

QBs starting not in the first round.

Dalton, 2nd round

Wilson 3rd round

Brady 6 th round

Brees 2nd round

Cousins 4 th round

Tyrod Taylor 6 th round

 

I am not going to list all the idiots around that have started some games because of injuries.

 

More starters are found in the first round but also more misses.

You can find them in other spots.

 

Very few early 1st Rd QBs come out with fanfare. The majority do not. There was little fanfare for guys like Winston and Mariota who most here would have hated had we traded up to pick them. Cam Newton had tons of question marks when he went #1 overall. Tannehill went #8 overall with little QB experience. Wentz and Goff last year had zero fanfare as sure fire starters. They were just the best options.

 

Expecting to wait and hit on someone in Rd 2-4 is likely to be a long wait because the hits are fewer and farther between. I understand the comment about a GM losing his job if they guess wrong on a QB at #3 overall but it really doesn't matter what round they guess in, it's the failure of finding a starting QB that leads to the unemployment line.

 

If it's my job and I had to pick one QB from this entire draft class to be my future starter you can bet I want to choose first. If the decision is that there is not one starter quality QB then we don't pick one at all in the entire draft because we already have backup quality QBs in guys like Hoyer. There are drafts where zero starting QBs are drafted but usually there is at least one.

 

For those who feel confident in Belichick's ability to sniff out the late round QB gem, last year the Patriots chose Brissett in Rd 3 ahead of Dak Prescott.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

Very few early 1st Rd QBs come out with fanfare. The majority do not. There was little fanfare for guys like Winston and Mariota who most here would have hated had we traded up to pick them. Cam Newton had tons of question marks when he went #1 overall. Tannehill went #8 overall with little QB experience. Wentz and Goff last year had zero fanfare as sure fire starters. They were just the best options.

 

Expecting to wait and hit on someone in Rd 2-4 is likely to be a long wait because the hits are fewer and farther between. I understand the comment about a GM losing his job if they guess wrong on a QB at #3 overall but it really doesn't matter what round they guess in, it's the failure of finding a starting QB that leads to the unemployment line.

 

If it's my job and I had to pick one QB from this entire draft class to be my future starter you can bet I want to choose first. If the decision is that there is not one starter quality QB then we don't pick one at all in the entire draft because we already have backup quality QBs in guys like Hoyer. There are drafts where zero starting QBs are drafted but usually there is at least one.

 

For those who feel confident in Belichick's ability to sniff out the late round QB gem, last year the Patriots chose Brissett in Rd 3 ahead of Dak Prescott.

Players will rise and fall on the draft board. I think Kizer will rise by April and between him and Trubisky one will go top 3. Drafting a QB requires a commitment to have everything available for him to succeed. Coaching, play calling, blocking, receivers that know their routes with hands, and running the ball often.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Players will rise and fall on the draft board. I think Kizer will rise by April and between him and Trubisky one will go up 3. Drafting a QB requires a commitment to have everything available for him to succeed. Coaching, play calling, blocking, receivers that know their routes with hands, and running the ball often.

I bet 2 of the top 3 picks are QB's. Last year this time, there was no top QB, next thing you knew there were two massive trade-ups and the top 2 picks were QB's. The position is so important and plenty of teams near the top of the draft, including the first 3 teams, have massive needs at the position.

[jason]

Polian has nothing to do with it. It all hinges on the relationship Pace has with the brass. The Mccaskeys seem like people that would be receptive to the conversion. Also, had Polian taken Leaf would you still use the argument of can't miss? He was the one with most upside according to experts.

 

Trubisky and Kizer have all the tools to succeed, they just lack experience.

 

I'm not the one who compared Polian drafting Manning to the Bears' current situation.

 

As for Leaf, who knows? I'm a believer of the concept that we can never know what would happen if player A, drafted by Team A, got drafted by Team B. For instance, Randy Moss never starts his career the same way if he's drafted by the Bears.

[Mongo3451]

I'm not the one who compared Polian drafting Manning to the Bears' current situation.

 

As for Leaf, who knows? I'm a believer of the concept that we can never know what would happen if player A, drafted by Team A, got drafted by Team B. For instance, Randy Moss never starts his career the same way if he's drafted by the Bears.

Never mentioned Polian. It was a simple comparison stating what you can expect from a rookie. And disagreed on Moss. He would clown anywhere he went. Dude was a freak.

[jason]

Never mentioned Polian. It was a simple comparison stating what you can expect from a rookie. And disagreed on Moss. He would clown anywhere he went. Dude was a freak.

 

But when you mention that situation, it goes a long way towards the clout the GM has with the organization. Do you think Pace has the same clout with the Bears as Polian had with the Colts?

 

As for Moss, I wanted him BADLY. I said so on the old webway monsters message board, or the one before that. Even at 4. I hated the Enis pick. Still do. I vividly recall laughing when the Titans grabbed Dyson before Moss. Having said all that, the Bears had Erik Kramer, Steve Stenstrom, and Moses freaking Moreno at QB that year. No way Moss puts up similar numbers in his rookie year, much less during his rookie contract.

[AZ54]

Players will rise and fall on the draft board. I think Kizer will rise by April and between him and Trubisky one will go up 3. Drafting a QB requires a commitment to have everything available for him to succeed. Coaching, play calling, blocking, receivers that know their routes with hands, and running the ball often.

 

I believe Kizer will rise a ton because he has all the physical tools. He's perfectly setup to execute a scripted Pro Day event and make everyone feel good about him. Will he throw at the combine? Even in that controlled environment I think his weaknesses are minimized. With his size he has already show he can stand in the pocket under pressure and make accurate throws and then take the hit. Trubisky less so.

 

It's the between the ears stuff (i.e. reading a defense, learning the playbook, handling the pressure of the job, etc.) that Pace has to figure out who is best.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jason]

I bet 2 of the top 3 picks are QB's. Last year this time, there was no top QB, next thing you knew there were two massive trade-ups and the top 2 picks were QB's. The position is so important and plenty of teams near the top of the draft, including the first 3 teams, have massive needs at the position.

 

I hope you're right. And I hope it's the #1 and #2 pick.

[AZ54]

I hope you're right. And I hope it's the #1 and #2 pick.

 

Even though I believe our first pick will be and should be a QB, if Garrett falls to us I view that as a winning scenario. In 2018 we can put all our chips (and draft picks) on the table and go after a QB. I'm one fan that has enough patience to wait on that. An OLB group of Floyd, McPhee, Young, and Garrett is non-stop headache for a QB and Oline. I'm still optimistic for Roy Robertson-Harris.

 

Even though I like him as a player I don't put Jonathan Allen in that category. I don't think Garrett has fully showcased or utilized his physical skills yet but based on his physical ability when you see him bull rush and toy with OTs, he is a once a decade talent. Allen isn't, but he's not a talent you can find every year in the draft so he has a lot of value.

 

I have to believe there is no way Pace trades out of the 3rd pick until he sees who is available to him on draft day.

[GreatScott82]

Interesting question. If Jimmy Garoppolo is available, do the Bears trade for him? What would he cost? I would prefer him over any of QBs coming out of this years draft. Granted he does only have one year remaining on his rookie contract, would a high 3rd round pick be enough to get him?

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I'm not the one who compared Polian drafting Manning to the Bears' current situation.

 

As for Leaf, who knows? I'm a believer of the concept that we can never know what would happen if player A, drafted by Team A, got drafted by Team B. For instance, Randy Moss never starts his career the same way if he's drafted by the Bears.

Moss would have been great anywhere. Guy was a machine and Leaf was and is a total moron. He'd have sucked everywhere. Same with McNown or Jamarcus Russell...moron is moron. Now I do agree if you look at like Akili Smith or better yet David Carr, you never know how they could have been if they went somewhere else. But when guys are total unregarded idiots, they are going to be that way no matter what.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

But when you mention that situation, it goes a long way towards the clout the GM has with the organization. Do you think Pace has the same clout with the Bears as Polian had with the Colts?

 

As for Moss, I wanted him BADLY. I said so on the old webway monsters message board, or the one before that. Even at 4. I hated the Enis pick. Still do. I vividly recall laughing when the Titans grabbed Dyson before Moss. Having said all that, the Bears had Erik Kramer, Steve Stenstrom, and Moses freaking Moreno at QB that year. No way Moss puts up similar numbers in his rookie year, much less during his rookie contract.

By the way, I too wanted Moss badly. Moss would have still been good though...clearly wouldn't have put up as ridiculous numbers, but he'd have been good. Kramer wasn't terrible...those other guys were. Kramer was on his last legs at that point though.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I believe Kizer will rise a ton because he has all the physical tools. He's perfectly setup to execute a scripted Pro Day event and make everyone feel good about him. Will he throw at the combine? Even in that controlled environment I think his weaknesses are minimized. With his size he has already show he can stand in the pocket under pressure and make accurate throws and then take the hit. Trubisky less so.

 

It's the between the ears stuff (i.e. reading a defense, learning the playbook, handling the pressure of the job, etc.) that Pace has to figure out who is best.

He's also supposed to be pretty intelligent and hard working. I was the guy who wanted Winston badly on this site and I still wish we had Winston. I don't think Kizer is Winston (I am still fairly confident, at worse, Winston will be a slightly above average QB) in the sense that Winston probably had a higher floor.

[Mongo3451]

By the way, I too wanted Moss badly. Moss would have still been good though...clearly wouldn't have put up as ridiculous numbers, but he'd have been good. Kramer wasn't terrible...those other guys were. Kramer was on his last legs at that point though.

I know you did. I did too.

 

BTW- Kramer to Moss would have been deadly. As would my mom to Moss and my 11 year old son. He is the most unstoppable player I have ever seen. The only thing I can equate him to is Tiger when he was on his tear.

[Lucky Luciano]

I know you did. I did too.

 

BTW- Kramer to Moss would have been deadly. As would my mom to Moss and my 11 year old son. He is the most unstoppable player I have ever seen. The only thing I can equate him to is Tiger when he was on his tear.

 

peanut always had good games against moss

 

peanut in truth was his nemesis. he was drafted to counter moss and the big receivers from green bay and did a really excellent job on the larger WR's throughout his career.

 

peanut was one of the best #2 cb's ever.

 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

peanut always had good games against moss

 

peanut in truth was his nemesis. he was drafted to counter moss and the big receivers from green bay and did a really excellent job on the larger WR's throughout his career.

 

peanut was one of the best #2 cb's ever.

Peanut is awesome. Miss seeing him in our secondary.

[Stinger226]

He had worthless receivers this past year, but he also looked nothing of the part of being an NFL QB. Ricky Stanzi looked a lot more the part (when I think of Iowa QB's) and he didn't do much in the NFL.

His stats dont set you on fire, but I have heard 3 NFL scouts say he has many traits to be a NFL starter. Nobody saying he is a franchise type but may be a good valve in the 4th or 5th.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

I hope you're right. And I hope it's the #1 and #2 pick.

Good thing there are 3 QBs projected to go R1 right now, that would make it easy on Pace taking a decision out of it. Little humor... Seriously though, they might need to trade down to 5 ahead of NYJ or 9 ahead of Buffalo if they want QB and there are options available. Nearly every need can be filled in FA except QB.

[Stinger226]

Good thing there are 3 QBs projected to go R1 right now, that would make it easy on Pace taking a decision out of it. Little humor... Seriously though, they might need to trade down to 5 ahead of NYJ or 9 ahead of Buffalo if they want QB and there are options available. Nearly every need can be filled in FA except QB.

I agree, there is no FA options, but if they think one of this years QBs are capable of being a Franchise QB then take him, but dont draft a high risk player at 3 because people expect you to do that. Take him if you want him , draft the BPA if you dont think there worth it.

[Mongo3451]

I agree, there is no FA options, but if they think one of this years QBs are capable of being a Franchise QB then take him, but dont draft a high risk player at 3 because people expect you to do that. Take him if you want him , draft the BPA if you dont think there worth it.

That's my stance. If you like him, take him. If not, BPA or trade.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

I agree, there is no FA options, but if they think one of this years QBs are capable of being a Franchise QB thenGarrettim, but dont draft a high risk choice at 3 because people expect you to do that. Take him if you want him , draft the BPA if you dont think there worth it.

I think there are 2-3 options, maybe one is worth our pick. Jimmy G makes a 4th option which I think SF somehow gets him if they hire McDaniels as HC. If that happens and Cleveland takes Garrett, then we get first choice.

 

1. Myles Garrett CLE

2. Leonard Fournette/Dalvin Cook SF (trade 2nd for JG)

3. What to do? Allen, QB, trade down.

[adam]

I think there are 2-3 options, maybe one is worth our pick. Jimmy G makes a 4th option which I think SF somehow gets him if they hire McDaniels as HC. If that happens and Cleveland takes Garrett, then we get first choice.

 

1. Myles Garrett CLE

2. Leonard Fournette/Dalvin Cook SF (trade 2nd for JG)

3. What to do? Allen, QB, trade down.

At this point (pre-combine, workouts, Senior Bowl, etc), you have to take Allen.