Stinger226 Posted January 17, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 First off, I'm bored so I read a couple threads on a Patriots board. How's that for tolerance? Anyway, it's not clear the Patriots have Garoppolo on the trading block. Shefter simply said that he thinks if they were to trade him the offer would have to be what the Vikings gave up for Bradford (1st/4th). Now if they are seriously interested in trading Garoppolo we have to ask ourselves... For me whenever someone in a QB starved league doesn't want their future starting QB it's a huge question mark, especially coming from a team that is right at the end of their franchise QB's run. There are no reasons the Patriots cannot give Garoppolo a contract extension into the 2018/19 seasons. If Garoppolo loved the organization so much and felt that his best shot at future success was there then absolutely stay and continue to learn from Brady until it was his turn. They have $68mil in cap space, 3rd most in the NFL! They have some key players to sign but this is far from a team in dire straits. Trading Garoppolo means Belichick is saying is that he can find Brady's replacement in either late 1st Rd/early 2nd Rd, one that is better than what he has on his roster today in Garoppolo and Brissett. Or his answer is Brissett, a QB who didn't even know any of the offense when he had to take the field early this year. At which point we have to say, if Belihick sees a future starting QB out there then why don't we? And if Brissett is really better than JG why then do we want JG? Despite their question marks, the top 3 QBs in this draft are all better prospects than Garoppolo. Keep in mind that in the last draft Belichick was so confident in JG that he felt he had to use the 91st pick in the draft on Brissett. That means he used a pick to put someone on the bench (3rd QB), a pick that could have easily brought them any number of players that contributed to their teams this year at positions the Patriots needed help in: TE Higbee, RB in Howard, QB Prescott. Why not grab one of those players to help win a Superbowl, and then, in the 2017 draft grab the QB? Or he could wait until the 2018 draft when JG leaves in FA, which by the way he could tag him and trade him at that time. Salary cap limits don't apply in the first part of the offseason. The 49ers traded Montana. Packers cut Favre knowing they had Rodgers. Colts cut Manning knowing they could draft Luck. Teams absolutely look to the future when the future is already on the roster or knocking on the door. I see zero reasons the Patriots would not be thinking the same way. If JG is top 15 QB material there's no way they let him leave. If he's not top 15 QB material there's no reason we should want him. You make some valid points, but Bellick does not always do the right thing. Chandler got trade to AZ and is considered one of the best edge rushers in the league. Ask yourself, they have the money? He is a blue chip player at probably the second most important position on the team. He traded for Shea McCelin and her is his stat line 14 4 41 16 25 1 - 0 - - - - - 0 1 He let Vince Wolfork go that is still playing at a high level So he does not always make the best decisions. I think he figures Brady plays 3 more years, he would have to pay JG for two years at a higher level. Belihck has a big ego, lets that get in the way sometimes. He may value Brissett higher but that does not mean JG is a bad player. Just because he wants to trade JG doesnt mean the top 3 QBs are better players. The point Im trying to make is, this would be a risky trade but so would drafting a QB at 3 that all have 2nd or 3rd round grades. They are elevated higher because of the importance of the position now there talent. WE can still a blue chip player at 3, trade a 2nd they we may use for o Qb with less upside and then only love the value of a 4th in taking the risk. I have heard from several scouts that if JG was coming out this year he would be the top rated QB. Anybody we bring in has risk, no sure things im FAgency or the draft. So why not take someone that could produce right now instead of waiting 3 years for them to develop. The pressure will be on Pace and Fox to be alot better this year and a NFL Qb would be farther along in his development. Here is JGs stat line in 2016 before he got hurt 43 63 502 8 4 0 four TDS and no interceptions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 I agree with just about the entire article, including the OTs. The starters are subpar at best. It would be nice one year to see our QB, whoever it is, stand in the pocket forever like Aaron Rogers and Tom Brady seem to always do. Protection has a lot to do with QB production. Having said that, I don't see how OT could be drafted in rd 1 & 2, considering the defensive depth in this draft. With Brady I agree, he's always had pretty good lines, but I also think he makes those lines good and helps them in terms of getting the ball out fast, etc. Rodgers has typically had pretty pourous olines. He also doesn't exactly help them out as he tends to hold onto the ball and rely a lot on his athleticism...he's just so freaking athletic that he can get away with it. Rodgers is physically the most talented QB I can ever remember seeing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 First off, I'm bored so I read a couple threads on a Patriots board. How's that for tolerance? Anyway, it's not clear the Patriots have Garoppolo on the trading block. Shefter simply said that he thinks if they were to trade him the offer would have to be what the Vikings gave up for Bradford (1st/4th). Now if they are seriously interested in trading Garoppolo we have to ask ourselves... For me whenever someone in a QB starved league doesn't want their future starting QB it's a huge question mark, especially coming from a team that is right at the end of their franchise QB's run. There are no reasons the Patriots cannot give Garoppolo a contract extension into the 2018/19 seasons. If Garoppolo loved the organization so much and felt that his best shot at future success was there then absolutely stay and continue to learn from Brady until it was his turn. They have $68mil in cap space, 3rd most in the NFL! They have some key players to sign but this is far from a team in dire straits. Trading Garoppolo means Belichick is saying is that he can find Brady's replacement in either late 1st Rd/early 2nd Rd, one that is better than what he has on his roster today in Garoppolo and Brissett. Or his answer is Brissett, a QB who didn't even know any of the offense when he had to take the field early this year. At which point we have to say, if Belihick sees a future starting QB out there then why don't we? And if Brissett is really better than JG why then do we want JG? Despite their question marks, the top 3 QBs in this draft are all better prospects than Garoppolo. Keep in mind that in the last draft Belichick was so confident in JG that he felt he had to use the 91st pick in the draft on Brissett. That means he used a pick to put someone on the bench (3rd QB), a pick that could have easily brought them any number of players that contributed to their teams this year at positions the Patriots needed help in: TE Higbee, RB in Howard, QB Prescott. Why not grab one of those players to help win a Superbowl, and then, in the 2017 draft grab the QB? Or he could wait until the 2018 draft when JG leaves in FA, which by the way he could tag him and trade him at that time. Salary cap limits don't apply in the first part of the offseason. The 49ers traded Montana. Packers cut Favre knowing they had Rodgers. Colts cut Manning knowing they could draft Luck. Teams absolutely look to the future when the future is already on the roster or knocking on the door. I see zero reasons the Patriots would not be thinking the same way. If JG is top 15 QB material there's no way they let him leave. If he's not top 15 QB material there's no reason we should want him. I think Belicheck also views players as assets and in general pieces. I think the reason they drafted Brissett is they know that either Brady will go shortly and they'll need two QB's (jimmy G and Brissett) or that they think Brady has a couple more years in him, which means, he knows the best use of an asset like Jimmy G is to deal him for multiple picks to keep the rest of the team good, while believing in Brissett (or finding another guy). I think Bill is so confident in the process he looks at everyone (with exception of Brady) as replaceable and that if the right value is there and it helps his team he'll do it. If Brady is around a few more years, you absolutely can not give Jimmy G a big contract (and that is what he'll want / get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 You make some valid points, but Bellick does not always do the right thing. Chandler got trade to AZ and is considered one of the best edge rushers in the league. Ask yourself, they have the money? He is a blue chip player at probably the second most important position on the team. He traded for Shea McCelin and her is his stat line 14 4 41 16 25 1 - 0 - - - - - 0 1 He let Vince Wolfork go that is still playing at a high level So he does not always make the best decisions. I think he figures Brady plays 3 more years, he would have to pay JG for two years at a higher level. Belihck has a big ego, lets that get in the way sometimes. He may value Brissett higher but that does not mean JG is a bad player. Just because he wants to trade JG doesnt mean the top 3 QBs are better players. The point Im trying to make is, this would be a risky trade but so would drafting a QB at 3 that all have 2nd or 3rd round grades. They are elevated higher because of the importance of the position now there talent. WE can still a blue chip player at 3, trade a 2nd they we may use for o Qb with less upside and then only love the value of a 4th in taking the risk. I have heard from several scouts that if JG was coming out this year he would be the top rated QB. Anybody we bring in has risk, no sure things im FAgency or the draft. So why not take someone that could produce right now instead of waiting 3 years for them to develop. The pressure will be on Pace and Fox to be alot better this year and a NFL Qb would be farther along in his development. Here is JGs stat line in 2016 before he got hurt 43 63 502 8 4 0 four TDS and no interceptions. I think he looks at JG and says, I can't pay him (& Tom)the money, so if Tom is going to be here another few years, he views JG as an asset to get better, and probably drafted the new QB for that very reason, that he knew he was going to have to move Jimmy G, so he needed to take a QB who he could evaluate for a year to better understand what value he thinks he has in Brisett. If he doesn't like him, he still probably moves Jimmy G for the vary reasons I mention, anyway, then draft another QB (and by drafting the new QB, it doesn't mean that the player will be better then Jimmy G, it will be that Bill views his value better to his organization vs. paying Jimmy G significant money when he was Tom on the roster). We might end up seeing Jimmy stay, Pats do not have to move him this year, it all comes down to the perceived value. In terms of some of the examples from a previous poster, Montana was done and coming off of injuries and Manning was (but the Colts also had the #1 pick in a draft where Andrew Luck was available, one of the best QB prospects of the last 10 years). Packers decision with Favre was tough, but they moved on from Favre more because they were tired of his "retirement" song and dance (it helped that Rodgers had a few years to be groomed and they thought he was good...but again, not quite similar circumstances). Tom Brady, is still one of, if not the best QB's in the league still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted January 17, 2017 Report Share Posted January 17, 2017 With Brady I agree, he's always had pretty good lines, but I also think he makes those lines good and helps them in terms of getting the ball out fast, etc. Rodgers has typically had pretty pourous olines. He also doesn't exactly help them out as he tends to hold onto the ball and rely a lot on his athleticism...he's just so freaking athletic that he can get away with it. Rodgers is physically the most talented QB I can ever remember seeing. There was one year when everyone talked about Rodgers having a porous line, but that has definitely not been consistent. He often has high sack numbers because, as you said, he holds the ball an exaggerated length of time. He extends the plays. The problem is, he's often allowed to extend the plays because the OL holds. Also, I heard the "most physically talented QB" thing on Mike and Mike this morning, and don't agree. There have been multiple who have been more physically talented: Vick, Cunningham, Young. Even his combine numbers weren't physically amazing. Where Rodgers excels is he's one of the most well-rounded QBs - in terms of physical ability, mental acumen, feel for the game, accuracy, etc. - that maybe we've ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted January 18, 2017 Report Share Posted January 18, 2017 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000077...-romo-to-texans Gil Brandt had the Bears 4th in the worst to 1st list and mentioned that if he were running the team, he'd draft best available @ 3 (I.e., defensive upgrade) and look at Romo, although his preference would be trading for Jimmy G. He is of the belief that with the right QB, we are a lot closer than people think (I agree with this statement...albeit, finding the right signal caller is easier said then done). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted January 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000077...-romo-to-texans Gil Brandt had the Bears 4th in the worst to 1st list and mentioned that if he were running the team, he'd draft best available @ 3 (I.e., defensive upgrade) and look at Romo, although his preference would be trading for Jimmy G. He is of the belief that with the right QB, we are a lot closer than people think (I agree with this statement...albeit, finding the right signal caller is easier said then done). I just listen to Matt Bowen on the score, and he suggested get Eric Berry then draft J. Adams at 3. That would take away the center of the defense and give your team a toughness that is hard to find. Berry is a major leader for a dedense, add in two excellent ILBs and you got a stud defense going to forward. With that in mind: pick up Berry/FS Johnson/CB K. Short/DE the same group I have been pushing then draft 1) Adams/SS 2) Bolles/LT figuring Robinson and Ramysck both gone 3) Legget/TE 4) Kevin King/CB 4) Copper Rush/QB from Western Michigan 5) Phillips/ edge rusher from Illinois 7) Kenny Golladay/WR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50england50 Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 I really hope the Pace isn't pressured into overreaching for a QB either in free agency or the draft. This is supposed to be a strong defensive year and at tight end which are big needs for us. As discussed earlier in free agency we could fix the secondary especially at safety if Kansas City don't sign Berry to a long term deal or franchise him (unsure they won't depending on how they value safety) and At corner back with either Gilmore, Bouye or Johnson and then draft either Allen, Adams or Lattimore with the third pick and you never know if Cleveland and Sanfrancisco make bone head picks and draft QB's with the 1st and 2nd picks Miles Garrett could fall to us. We could then pick up a very good dlineman, Safety or tight end with our second pick and then use our third pick on the best available QB. If we find a gem the beauty of this would be that he is on a cost effective salary much like how drafting Russell Wilson helped build Seattle. My big concern with Garapalo is although the view is if he was available for the draft this year he may be picked first overall however it would still be a fairly team friendly deal but getting him this year would cost us draft picks we can't afford to give up and a contract probably greater than what Ostweiler got this year. Another factor to consider is that although we currently don't have a franchise QB many teams have been successful in the playoffs without one as long as the team had quality starters and good depth. We currently have possibly 2 to 3 serviceable QB's that we could pick 2 from to go along with the QB we are developing to become our franchise QB. I feel that although Cutler is no longer the long term answer if no one better is available than him to move forward with this year then I wouldn't be against him being the placeholder and who is evaluated as the better player between Hoyer and Barkley as the 2nd QB with Cook given the chance to win this spot (don't see Fales being kept). The QB I like is Patrick Mahomes but must admit have only seen him on YouTube highlights. Don't like his foot work but has a good arm and seems be be accurate. If he has a good character and could he be taught to use his feet better similar to what Gase and Matrz tried with Cutler who was reported as not being overly on board that this particular attribute could transform him from an average to good QB to possibly a very good QB maybe even a top 15 player at this important position. Mahomes with good footwork could be a very good to a franchise quality QB and if this doesn't work out we draft another QB next year and again every year until we find him. In 1 to 2 years time our roster should be competitive and hopefully we get lucky on the most important position to get right. You never know we could find 2 decent QB's over this time and find a trade partner who gives us a bucket load of picks. Wishful thinking maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted January 19, 2017 Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 I just listen to Matt Bowen on the score, and he suggested get Eric Berry then draft J. Adams at 3. That would take away the center of the defense and give your team a toughness that is hard to find. Berry is a major leader for a dedense, add in two excellent ILBs and you got a stud defense going to forward. With that in mind: pick up Berry/FS Johnson/CB K. Short/DE the same group I have been pushing then draft 1) Adams/SS 2) Bolles/LT figuring Robinson and Ramysck both gone 3) Legget/TE 4) Kevin King/CB 4) Copper Rush/QB from Western Michigan 5) Phillips/ edge rusher from Illinois 7) Kenny Golladay/WR Why would the Bears need two ILBs? Freeman was nasty this year. One of the best ILBs in the NFL. And Trevathan still isn't lost for 2017. Throw in Kwiatkowski's promise, and I don't see a reason to do anything other than bolster the position with depth. If they know Trev is out, then it becomes a potential concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted January 19, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2017 Why would the Bears need two ILBs? Freeman was nasty this year. One of the best ILBs in the NFL. And Trevathan still isn't lost for 2017. Throw in Kwiatkowski's promise, and I don't see a reason to do anything other than bolster the position with depth. If they know Trev is out, then it becomes a potential concern. I may at worded it wrong but the point was we are strong up the middle with our two ILBers, and with the new additions. Not that we needed to address that position. I neither have drafted or picked up a FA in the middle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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