PACE dumb and dumber or genius?

[madlithuanian]

You are right. However, there is a difference between questioning them and dismissing them immediately. I'm not saying you are. But there are plenty out on the net and tv that are...

 

 

 

The way I see it is, until there is sustained excellence we should question every move.

 

[Lucky Luciano]

I won't argue the point for point, but your last comment sums it all up. We've heard the same thing for 20ish years. If we've been questioning things for 20ish years, then maybe we're not far off in our evaluation of Bears' drafts, and players they would have been better off drafting? Sure, we don't know anything about this year. These guys might be awesome in 2019. However, feel free to bring up one of the drafts a few years after it was done, with what others wanted instead of who the Bears picked. I'm positive (because I've looked it up over the course of the board) our overall results would be comparable or better than the Bears' picks. And those picks were ones, like this year, that were highly questioned. Nobody is 100%, but the Bears have had a horrible history of drafting.

 

and you don't think I HAVE???

 

dude, i have been questioning the bears drafts since george halas senior (if only muggs halas hadn't died) hired mike ditka as a freaking head coach causing jim finks to say SCREW IT!!! vanisi did a good job but the that idiot mike mccaskey decided he was smarter than anyone because he went to freaking YALE university and wrote some idiotic book and football knowledge was somehow a genetic trait.

 

so the "20ish" years you are talking about include exactly WHO as our GM?? mike mccaskey? jerry angelo?? phil emmory??? for anyone that does NOT know it mike mccaskey, FORGET the gardener moniker he wore, was in charge during angelo and emmory's tenure.

 

that leaves finally GEORGE mcckaskey, for the most part (the keeping lovie scenario was STUPID), finally realized ted phillips is an idiot and he was rightfully smart enough to know he didn't have the football intelligence to be a GM hired then fired emmory and hired pace, someone who actually may have the brains and who had at LEAST good credentials coming in to be a GM!!!

 

so just about ANYBODY on this board (or someone who graduated from the 2nd grade) was smart enough NOT to draft most of the ***players pre PACE.

 

There have been very few picks over the course of the years this board has been going (and the previous board) that nearly all have said, "Hey, great pick!" Alshon Jeffery was a near 100% consensus. Most seem to be pretty happy about the Eddie Jackson pick this year. Otherwise, it's year after year of questionable picks, and year after year of people saying "wait a few years before you slam the GM."

 

ok, then let's see what pace has DONE....

 

2017 - Chicago Bears

RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL

1 2 Mitch Trubisky QB North Carolina

2 45 Adam Shaheen TE Ashland

4 112 Eddie Jackson SAF Alabama

4 119 Tarik Cohen RB North Carolina A&T

5 147 Jordan Morgan G Kutztown

 

dude, this is a good draft considering the position we are in at THIS TIME!!! we have the TIME to groom these people.

 

2016 - Chicago Bears

RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL

1 9 Leonard Floyd LB Georgia

2 56 Cody Whitehair C Kansas State

3 72 Jonathan Bullard DE Florida

4 113 Nick Kwiatkoski LB West Virginia

4 124 Deon Bush SAF Miami (Fla.)

4 127 Deiondre' Hall SAF Northern Iowa

5 150 Jordan Howard RB Indiana

6 185 DeAndre Houston-Carson SAF William & Mary

7 230 Daniel Braverman WR Western Michigan

 

floyd - had a very good rookie season and could be a perennial starter for us with a possible all-pro talent

whitehair - this guy could be an all-pro somewhere on our OL in the future

bullard - potential - are you going to cut a guy like this after one dismal season?

kwiatkoski - same as above

howard - this guy could turn out to be a franchise running back!!

 

in fact the only one who didn't stick so far is the guy i believe YOU were high on - braverman

 

2015 - Chicago Bears

RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL

1 7 Kevin White WR West Virginia

2 39 Eddie Goldman DT Florida State

3 71 Hroniss Grasu C Oregon

4 106 Jeremy Langford RB Michigan State

5 142 Adrian Amos SAF Penn State

6 183 Tayo Fabuluje T Texas Christian

 

kevin white - a good pick that ended up problematic through unforeseen INJURY. still has miles of potential.

goldman - shaping up into a very nice defensive tackle

grasu - could be our starting CENTER this season

langford - a good + running back, we now forsee as a backup to howard, that may be as good as some other teams starters.

amos - still unsure of his stature but at least a rotational safety

 

are you really going to tell me these last two drafts prior to 2017 are garbage? seriously??

 

i don't know what teams you are looking at but in MY BOOK that is a pretty impressive list of players he drafted especially when he didn't even have his own scouting staff employed the first year.

 

==========================================================

***2014

1 14 Kyle Fuller CB Virginia Tech

2 51 Ego Ferguson DT LSU

3 82 Will Sutton DT Arizona State

4 117 Ka'Deem Carey RB Arizona

4 131 Brock Vereen SS Minnesota

6 183 David Fales QB San Jose State

6 191 Pat O'Donnell P Miami (Fla.)

7 246 Charles Leno T Boise State

2013 - Chicago Bears

RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL

1 20 Kyle Long OG Oregon

2 50 Jon Bostic ILB Florida

4 117 Khaseem Greene OLB Rutgers

5 163 Jordan Mills OT Louisiana Tech

6 188 Cornelius Washington DE Georgia

7 236 Marquess Wilson WR Washington State

2012 - Chicago Bears

RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL

1 19 Shea McClellin DE Boise State

2 45 Alshon Jeffery WR South Carolina

3 79 Brandon Hardin FS Oregon State

4 111 Evan Rodriguez TE Temple

6 184 Isaiah Frey CB Nevada-Reno

7 220 Greg McCoy CB Texas Christian

2011 - Chicago Bears

RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL

1 29 Gabe Carimi T Wisconsin

2 53 Stephen Paea DT Oregon State

3 93 Chris Conte DB California

5 160 Nathan Enderle QB Idaho

6 195 J.T. Thomas LB West Virginia

2010 - Chicago Bears

RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL

3 75 Major Wright DB Florida

4 109 Corey Wootton DE Northwestern

5 141 Joshua Moore DB Kansas State

6 181 Dan LeFevour QB Central Michigan

7 218 J'Marcus Webb T West Texas A&M

Harvey Unga RB Brigham Young

2009 - Chicago Bears

RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL

3 68 Jarron Gilbert DT San Jose State

3 99 Juaquin Iglesias WR Oklahoma

4 105 Henry Melton DE Texas

4 119 D.J. Moore DB Vanderbilt

5 140 Johnny Knox WR Abilene Christian

5 154 Marcus Freeman OLB Ohio State

6 190 Al Afalava DB Oregon State

7 246 Lance Louis G San Diego State

7 251 Derek Kinder WR Pittsburgh

2008 - Chicago Bears

RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL

1 14 Chris Williams OT Vanderbilt

2 44 Matt Forte RB Tulane

3 70 Earl Bennett WR Vanderbilt

3 90 Marcus Harrison DT Arkansas

4 120 Craig Steltz DB Louisiana State

5 142 Zack Bowman CB Nebraska

5 158 Kellen Davis TE Michigan State

7 208 Ervin Baldwin DE Michigan State

7 222 Chester Adams G Georgia

7 243 Joey LaRocque LB Oregon State

7 247 Kirk Barton T Ohio State

7 248 Marcus Monk WR Arkansas

2007 - Chicago Bears

RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL

1 31 Greg Olsen TE Miami (Fla.)

2 62 Dan Bazuin DE Central Michigan

3 93 Garrett Wolfe RB Northern Illinois

3 94 Michael Okwo LB Stanford

4 130 Josh Beekman G Boston College

5 167 Kevin Payne SAF Louisiana-Monroe

5 168 Corey Graham CB New Hampshire

7 221 Trumaine McBride CB Mississippi

7 241 Aaron Brant T Iowa State

2006 - Chicago Bears

RD SEL # PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL

2 42 Danieal Manning FS Abilene Christian

2 57 Devin Hester DB Miami (Fla.)

3 73 Dusty Dvoracek DT Oklahoma

4 120 Jamar Williams LB Arizona State

5 159 Mark Anderson DE Alabama

6 195 J.D. Runnels RB Oklahoma

6 200 Tyler Reed G Penn State

[Stinger226]

I won't argue the point for point, but your last comment sums it all up. We've heard the same thing for 20ish years. If we've been questioning things for 20ish years, then maybe we're not far off in our evaluation of Bears' drafts, and players they would have been better off drafting? Sure, we don't know anything about this year. These guys might be awesome in 2019. However, feel free to bring up one of the drafts a few years after it was done, with what others wanted instead of who the Bears picked. I'm positive (because I've looked it up over the course of the board) our overall results would be comparable or better than the Bears' picks. And those picks were ones, like this year, that were highly questioned. Nobody is 100%, but the Bears have had a horrible history of drafting.

 

There have been very few picks over the course of the years this board has been going (and the previous board) that nearly all have said, "Hey, great pick!" Alshon Jeffery was a near 100% consensus. Most seem to be pretty happy about the Eddie Jackson pick this year. Otherwise, it's year after year of questionable picks, and year after year of people saying "wait a few years before you slam the GM."

We havent been for 20 years, so I have no problem with questioning moves. My point is, right now we have a new regime and we have to keep relevant to what he does.

 

Pace's first year was mainly derailed by Whites injury. Grasu was injured and hasnt produced. Goldman was a good pick, but didnt make it 16 games. Langford may not be a star, but I think he can contribute. Amps would have to be considered a good pick although he may be only average by where he was picked.

 

He had a good draft last year, I do not think anybody believes that not a true statement.

 

He has hit on some FAs and missed on some but at least he is not throwing big money out there and blowing it.

 

I think Pace is a good evaluatior of talent and trust his picks this year until it proves different.

 

I did not like any of his picks except for Jackson, but the more i look at the draft the more i understand his plan.

 

I do agree with you that this site has had some better ideas than some of the previous GMs as far as choices, but they forgot to ask our advice.

The truth is their job is hard, and even the best get it wrong. Look at NE, they wanted Shea and I still dont think he is a NFL football player.

 

Here is what I see, Matt Stafford, Jason Witten, Tryeek Hill when I look at some of these choices he made, until it proves differently. Jackson and Morgan are going to be starters one day.

 

So as much as i didnt like this draft, it could turn out quite good, we just dont know now.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

we got arguably the best QB in the draft and gave up a 3rd and 4th round pick to do it? how is that unexplainable?

 

When you have a team with as many holes as our team has/had then you can call it 'unexplainable' (sic). When you trade away 2-3 current draft picks and another for next year, without knowing this kid's potential, you call it inexplicable. How is he 'arguably' the best QB in the draft? Either you accept the expert's analysis of him or you don't. It seems with all the bad-mouthing from sites like WalterFootball, Deadspin and SI.com and "experts" like Skip Bayless, Steven Smith, Mel Kiper and Pete Prisco and on and on, we are consoling each other and saying ignore all the negativity. Yet we make an argument that Trubisky could be the next best thing for the Bears? How, intuition? What has he done to earn all this praise? He played 13 games with a record of 8-5 against which teams? Did he play in a pro-style offense? No. He was called "Mr Football" in Ohio when he played HS football? So what? Johnny Manziel was Mr.Football when he played collegiately for A&M; look where that got him. I just don't get it. 'We' were schooled by a rookie GM in San Francisco and bested by a perennial losing team in Cleveland. As much as it pains me, Cleveland laid the ground work for a draft the way its supposed to go; especially for a team lacking across the board talent and having many holes it needed filled. They drafted three (3!!!) quality players in the first round and still got a decent QB in the second round. The same QB that our Bears spent all their time (or a large portion of time) researching.

About that. How do you explain a pick that he himself didn't expect because there was no meeting and no pre-draft primer to suggest he would be picked by our team. How about the rumor Fox was kept in the dark? How about the fact Glennon is on record as saying he feels 'cheated on'? Is this the kind of drama our team needed? Let alone the sacrificial moves to get there

 

we have the potential for a very good change of pace RB to help our QB situation by running the football, we picked up a good offensive lineman (which is another thing everyone wanted) at a bargain price who needs some time to develop.

This whole trying to look cunning by picking D2 talent is ludicrous. On face value we already have a player that is "Sproles-like'" and can be a joystick by the name of Benny Cunningham. A lot of those "experts" suspect Cohen won't be able to hold up the NFL grind. We know Cunningham can because he's been doing it for a few years already. And this idea that Sheehan is Gronk's second coming...please. How about we wait and see how he shapes up to actual competition instead of those D2 powerhouses of Mercyhurst, Tiffin and Michigan Tech. The one (of the small school picks (3 of the 5 picks by the way)) that made the most sense was Kutztown's Jordan Morgan. Being that he was/is an OT. Unfortunately we waited until the 5th round to address that need....with a D2 player.

 

like any draft pick, none may turn out to be good. time will tell. but to slam a GM before his picks have had time to be realistically evaluated is pretty narrow minded. if over a three to five year period his top picks nearly ALL are out of the NFL for lack of talent then is the time to call for a change.

 

Pace has had his time to have his 'talent evaluation' and the team still is losing games. Will they win more this year? Still remains to be seen, but building the team in this manner goes against so much conventional wisdom it's nearly laughable. If it were the Cleveland Browns or Green Bay Packers, it would be laughable. But since its the Bears, I'm not sure what to think.

[Stinger226]

When you have a team with as many holes as our team has/had then you can call it 'unexplainable' (sic). When you trade away 2-3 current draft picks and another for next year, without knowing this kid's potential, you call it inexplicable. How is he 'arguably' the best QB in the draft? Either you accept the expert's analysis of him or you don't. It seems with all the bad-mouthing from sites like WalterFootball, Deadspin and SI.com and "experts" like Skip Bayless, Steven Smith, Mel Kiper and Pete Prisco and on and on, we are consoling each other and saying ignore all the negativity. Yet we make an argument that Trubisky could be the next best thing for the Bears? How, intuition? What has he done to earn all this praise? He played 13 games with a record of 8-5 against which teams? Did he play in a pro-style offense? No. He was called "Mr Football" in Ohio when he played HS football? So what? Johnny Manziel was Mr.Football when he played collegiately for A&M; look where that got him. I just don't get it. 'We' were schooled by a rookie GM in San Francisco and bested by a perennial losing team in Cleveland. As much as it pains me, Cleveland laid the ground work for a draft the way its supposed to go; especially for a team lacking across the board talent and having many holes it needed filled. They drafted three (3!!!) quality players in the first round and still got a decent QB in the second round. The same QB that our Bears spent all their time (or a large portion of time) researching.

About that. How do you explain a pick that he himself didn't expect because there was no meeting and no pre-draft primer to suggest he would be picked by our team. How about the rumor Fox was kept in the dark? How about the fact Glennon is on record as saying he feels 'cheated on'? Is this the kind of drama our team needed? Let alone the sacrificial moves to get there

 

 

This whole trying to look cunning by picking D2 talent is ludicrous. On face value we already have a player that is "Sproles-like'" and can be a joystick by the name of Benny Cunningham. A lot of those "experts" suspect Cohen won't be able to hold up the NFL grind. We know Cunningham can because he's been doing it for a few years already. And this idea that Sheehan is Gronk's second coming...please. How about we wait and see how he shapes up to actual competition instead of those D2 powerhouses of Mercyhurst, Tiffin and Michigan Tech. The one (of the small school picks (3 of the 5 picks by the way)) that made the most sense was Kutztown's Jordan Morgan. Being that he was/is an OT. Unfortunately we waited until the 5th round to address that need....with a D2 player.

 

 

 

Pace has had his time to have his 'talent evaluation' and the team still is losing games. Will they win more this year? Still remains to be seen, but building the team in this manner goes against so much conventional wisdom it's nearly laughable. If it were the Cleveland Browns or Green Bay Packers, it would be laughable. But since its the Bears, I'm not sure what to think.

You apparently have selective reading, by many experts he was rated the best QB in the draft. And of these so called experts for and against him, are not scouts or do they work for any NFL teams. The truth is taking a QB high is a boom or bust situation, Pace thinks he is the real deal, and that is all that matters. I am sure he values your opinion but your email must have arrived to him to late to change.

Cohen will be everybodies favorite draftee this year. He will get some carries, and he will be split out as a slot WR, as per Pace in a interview on the score an hour ago. He is similair in size as Sporales but actually faster and quicker more like Thyeek Hill is with KC. Cohen 5' 6" 180 lbs., Sproles-5'6" 190, on the other hand your Benny Cunningham comparison has never been made by anyone but you. He is 5'10" 217 and never will be again. Cohen 4.42 Sproles 4.46 Cunningham 4.59. They are totally different animals, so read up first before making comments.

 

As far as Mike Glennon saying he feels cheated on, I have read several articles about that and no where does anybody quote him on that. It is always sources close to him saying that. I am sure he is disappointed but he is an adult making 18.5 in guaranteed money. I think he may survive this and not anticipate suicide.

 

As far as the draft goes, the key is Tribusky a franchise QB (come back in 3 years) that is when we will find out not 2 days after the draft.

 

Shaheen was rated anywhere from 45 to 75 best player in the draft by a lot of your so called experts. Several rated him as the second best TE in the draft. He physically compares to Zonk but that is a reach, I will predict a Jason Witten type career. Copy this and bring it up to me if Im wrong, it will give you something to do .

 

Jackson would have been the 2nd or third rated FS in the had he not broke a bone in his leg. The acl tear was in 2014 and in 2015 he had 45 ts, 6 ints.,2 PBUs, 2 FF; and would have been a first round had he left school early.

He will end up starting sometime this year and be one of our playmakers.

 

Cohen- Is an electric player that will see 10 -12 plays a game.

 

Morgan is a eventual starter at OG. I suspect when picking someone later in the draft finding someone to make the team would be considered good. If you check him out, some boards had him late 3rd or early 4th. Sitton will be 31 this year so I suspect in one or maybe two, he will be starting at LG and play at a high level.

 

As far as your comment on drafting 3 players from small schools. Let me just throw you out some names from small schools. Peanut Tillmam, Sid Luckman, Walter Payton,Richard Dent, Chris Villarrial, Marty Booker, Wally Chambers.

 

 

[scs787]

It's impossible to tell whether he's dumb or a genius right now. I will say that I admire his conviction. Trubisky was obviously his guy and he didn't want to lose out on him. If you think Mitch is so far ahead of everyone else, then ya gotta do what ya gotta do. You could make the argument that he could have drafted Adams in the first and then drafted a QB later but if you don't project any of those QBs as starters then why waste the pick?

 

Same for Shaheen, if you buy into him being the next Gronk and don't wanna lose him to another team, take him. Trust your scouting.

 

It's gonna be an interesting couple of years.

[killakrzydav]

Good job.

 

Off have to say that's a pretty competent list of acquisitions.

[Boston Boxer]

Evaluation is even hard for experts whose jobs are on the line for their choices.

Only 59% of the first round become starters. that's a high miss rate. 29% are busts.

At the SB this year there were 38 UDFAs on the the two teams rosters.

the point is it's hard to know where the players are coming from but the bottom line is evaluating talent.

 

lets look at Paces drafts

2015

White-- has been injured but still has #1 WR traits. If he stays healthy we will know this answer.

Goldman-- big time player with some injury issues

Grasu-- may still be OC of this football team

Langford-- an NFL player but is not a star

Amos-- an average SS but not a bust by anyones opinion

Fabujuis-- a miss

 

2016

Floyd-- looks like a potential star

Whitehair-- stud OL guy

Bullard-- jury is still out, that is why you cant judge a player in his first year, they develop at different paces.

Kwaitkoski-- I would have to stay future start in the middle

Bush-- jury is still out but has some traits

D. Hall- now becoming a FS has great upside

Howard- the second best RB in the 5th round (he shoots and he scores)

Houston-Carlson-- probably just a STs guy but we actually dont have this answer yet.

 

2017

Tribusky-- compared to Matthew Stafford- if it turns out that way, a huge pick

Shaleen-- compared to Jason Witten-- I would be satisfied with that

Jackson-- a potenial steal in this years draft if he gets back to his 2015 level of play

Cohen-- a Sporles clone

Morgan-- a player they spent a week with, I would say he is a potential starter at OG.

 

Here is some UDFAs he has brought in

 

Roberson-Harris-- the jury is still out but has traits

Braunecker-- may not be a starter but a competitive backup- jury still out

Callahan-- a NB that can play

Glenn-- back and forth off the roster but still may be able to stike

Medidith-- a #2 WR a major hit

Timu-- a competent backup

 

By looking at this list, I would say he can evaluate talent, but we wont know for at least one more year.

We dont know where the talent will come from but I would say he will hit on two out of three on the players he choose.

 

Here is some FAs he hit on

 

McPhee- aside from injuries he can play

 

 

 

2016

Danny Trevathan ILB

Josh Sitton G 30

Bobby Massie RT

Jerrell Freeman ILB 30

Tracy Porter CB

Akiem Hicks DE

Zach Miller TE 32

Sherrick McManis CB

Mitch Unrein DT

Brian Hoyer QB

Ted Larsen G 29 -

Manuel Ramirez G

Omar Bolden FS

Sam Acho OLB

Chris Prosinski

 

By that list I would say he had a lot more hits than misses at good value

 

 

 

2017

 

Mike Glennon QB

Dion Sims TE 26

Marcus Cooper CB

Quintin Demps SS

Markus Wheaton WR

Prince Amukamara CB

Mark Sanchez QB

Kendall Wright WR

Tom Compton T

Christian Jones ILB

C.J. Wilson DE 30

Connor Barth K

John Jenkins DT

Johnthan Banks CB

Sam Acho OLB

Deonte Thompson

Benny Cunningham RB

Chris Prosinski

 

We wont know until the end of this year but i would say we upgraded our talent with these picks at a good value.

 

I think the team he is building is going to be very good but is still a year or maybe two away from being a very good team

 

QBs Glennon-Tribuski-Sanchez I would have to say this is a huge upgrade with the possibility of being great.

RBs Howard- Langford-Cohen-Cunningham I think this is a very exicting group

WRs White-Wright-Wheaton-Merideth-Randle-Braverman I would say this group could turn out to be very good

TEs Shaleen-Sims-Brown-Miller-Baunecker this group could turn out to be very good

OL Sitton-Long-Whitehair-Grasu-Morgan-Compton-Massie-Kush-Leno I think this is one of the team strengths

 

DL- Hicks-Goldman-Bullard-Unrien-Jenkins- I see a lot of potenial here with a couple of stars ( R-Harris has been beefing up and I see him becoming a 5T)

 

LBers Floyd-Acho-Young-Anderson-Timu-Freeman-Trevathan-Kithwatoski-McPhee-Jones this a very good looking group

CBs Fuller-Callahan-Porter-Akumurimra-Banks-Baushy-Cooper-LeBlanc-McMannis-Webb We are throwing a lot of darts at this position and I will bet it turns out to be very good.

Ss Amos-Bush-Jackson-Demps-D. Hall-Jones-Quarty-Proniski I see a proming ugrade in this area.

 

Our team has been totally rebuilt and still may need a year or two to show its potential.

I think Pace has put this roster in a position to start winning this year. Until it gets all thrown together, we have a hard time seeing it from this side of the fence.

 

There will be a lot of good hits and some that dont work out but I am very optimistic.

 

We are building a power running team with a west coast flavor

 

Glennon and Tribuski we have two darts at board and could hit on both of them

White-Merideth-Wright-Wheation, I think this group surprises us.

TEs- totally upgrades our running game and red zone scoring, this could be one of our stengths

RB- We have Howard with Langford backing him up, also Cunningham and Cohen as 3rd down backs , this could be a very exciting offense if Cohen turns into Sporles

OL this is going to be one of our strengths and if Morgan is sneaky good with Grasu being solid, I can see us moving Whitehair out to Lenos spot.

 

Front 7-- Hicks-Goldman-McPhee-Freeman-Trevathan-Floyd all star types Young-Bullard-Robnson-Harris---Jenkins- Barring injuries I think our D arrives, top 8

 

Backside- I think Cooper-Demps-Jackson-D. Hall-Prince A-Callahan-LeBlanc-Banks-Amos completes our D. turns out well.

 

 

Pace has a plan and I think this year this plan comes together.

 

Surprises this year:

 

Bullard takes a huge step forward

 

Cooper and Jackson become playmakers

 

Robinson-Harris shows some pass rushing skills

 

Floyd gets 12 to 14 sacks this year

 

McPhee plays less and still gets 10 sacks

 

Hicks and Goldman have 14 sacks between them.

 

Offense becomes a power team with 2 TEs sets . White and Merideth shine, TE becomes a strength. Howard star and Cohen turns into Sproles.

 

8 to 10 wins, but remember I am an optimist.

 

very nice work breaking this down. well done. Im a pessimist so i will say 4-6 wins. I still think our secondary (CB/Safety) stinks. Time will tell

[ASHKUM BEAR]

very nice work breaking this down. well done. Im a pessimist so i will say 4-6 wins. I still think our secondary (CB/Safety) stinks. Time will tell

We were decent against the pass, but that stat was flawed because we were bad against the run. A healthy Goldman will help that.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

You apparently have selective reading, by many experts he was rated the best QB in the draft. And of these so called experts for and against him, are not scouts or do they work for any NFL teams. The truth is taking a QB high is a boom or bust situation, Pace thinks he is the real deal, and that is all that matters. I am sure he values your opinion but your email must have arrived to him to late to change.

 

No I think you misunderstood my point. On the one hand, we (you) are placing value on what others (experts) have said about Trubisky but in the same breath de-valuing other experts when they question the rationale for the pick in the way the Bears did it. And since we're 'there' discussing this plethora of accolades from the experts who rated Trubisky as the top QB prospect; please list them out for me. I'm curious on what basis they made this measurement? Again, the kid's only got 13 games under his belt. And I might add this one caveat; Trubisky was a three year player for North Carolina but didn't start until this last year. Why couldn't he beat out Marquise Williams? By the way, where is he these days? And before you choose to belittle my opinion again, understand I'm not totally against the choice, just how it was done.

 

Cohen will be everybodies favorite draftee this year. He will get some carries, and he will be split out as a slot WR, as per Pace in a interview on the score an hour ago. He is similair in size as Sporales but actually faster and quicker more like Thyeek Hill is with KC. Cohen 5' 6" 180 lbs., Sproles-5'6" 190, on the other hand your Benny Cunningham comparison has never been made by anyone but you. He is 5'10" 217 and never will be again. Cohen 4.42 Sproles 4.46 Cunningham 4.59. They are totally different animals, so read up first before making comments.

 

A few quotes about Cohen from other sources than your own: "Too eager to bounce everything. Takes his share of negative yardage carries. Feet are electric, but footwork and run track on zone plays needs work. Takes big hits from big men when trying to fight out of tackles and squeeze out extra yards. Stature and short arms make him a tougher target for quarterbacks. Has almost no experience as a punt or kick returner on special teams.

And: "He has no value on special teams, as he doesn’t have much experience as a returner. Considering that he’s only 5’6″ and 179 pounds, that’s worrisome. Speaking of size, his frame is less than ideal. It’s unlikely that he’ll ever be able to handle a full NFL workload. At best, he’s the type of guy to get four or five touches per game."

 

So tell me again how valuable Cohen will be with "no experience as a returner" and only probably contributing "4-5 carries per game"?

 

Shaheen was rated anywhere from 45 to 75 best player in the draft by a lot of your so called experts. Several rated him as the second best TE in the draft. He physically compares to Zonk but that is a reach, I will predict a Jason Witten type career. Copy this and bring it up to me if Im wrong, it will give you something to do .

 

I'll be more than happy to point out your being wrong. Just like when you were convinced Cutler was a Franchise QB. This too shall pass...

 

Jackson would have been the 2nd or third rated FS in the had he not broke a bone in his leg. The acl tear was in 2014 and in 2015 he had 45 ts, 6 ints.,2 PBUs, 2 FF; and would have been a first round had he left school early.

He will end up starting sometime this year and be one of our playmakers.

 

Talk about reading comprehension, or lack thereof, I actually like this pick. Already said so. I'm concerned about his injury history but like Everything else about him. Alabama defender, team leader and one time top rated cover safety. All things we actually need.

 

As far as your comment on drafting 3 players from small schools. Let me just throw you out some names from small schools. Peanut Tillmam, Sid Luckman, Walter Payton, Richard Dent, Chris Villarrial, Marty Booker, Wally Chambers.

 

Since you apparently did the math already, and since you went back as far as 1939 with Sid Luckman (they had "small schools" then?), tell me how successful the small school draftees were compared to the more traditional DI products. With 3 of the 5 picks being from small schools, I don't get an overwhelming feeling of potential success.

 

 

[Mongo3451]

You apparently have selective reading, by many experts he was rated the best QB in the draft. And of these so called experts for and against him, are not scouts or do they work for any NFL teams. The truth is taking a QB high is a boom or bust situation, Pace thinks he is the real deal, and that is all that matters. I am sure he values your opinion but your email must have arrived to him to late to change.

Cohen will be everybodies favorite draftee this year. He will get some carries, and he will be split out as a slot WR, as per Pace in a interview on the score an hour ago. He is similair in size as Sporales but actually faster and quicker more like Thyeek Hill is with KC. Cohen 5' 6" 180 lbs., Sproles-5'6" 190, on the other hand your Benny Cunningham comparison has never been made by anyone but you. He is 5'10" 217 and never will be again. Cohen 4.42 Sproles 4.46 Cunningham 4.59. They are totally different animals, so read up first before making comments.

 

As far as Mike Glennon saying he feels cheated on, I have read several articles about that and no where does anybody quote him on that. It is always sources close to him saying that. I am sure he is disappointed but he is an adult making 18.5 in guaranteed money. I think he may survive this and not anticipate suicide.

 

As far as the draft goes, the key is Tribusky a franchise QB (come back in 3 years) that is when we will find out not 2 days after the draft.

 

Shaheen was rated anywhere from 45 to 75 best player in the draft by a lot of your so called experts. Several rated him as the second best TE in the draft. He physically compares to Zonk but that is a reach, I will predict a Jason Witten type career. Copy this and bring it up to me if Im wrong, it will give you something to do .

 

Jackson would have been the 2nd or third rated FS in the had he not broke a bone in his leg. The acl tear was in 2014 and in 2015 he had 45 ts, 6 ints.,2 PBUs, 2 FF; and would have been a first round had he left school early.

He will end up starting sometime this year and be one of our playmakers.

 

Cohen- Is an electric player that will see 10 -12 plays a game.

 

Morgan is a eventual starter at OG. I suspect when picking someone later in the draft finding someone to make the team would be considered good. If you check him out, some boards had him late 3rd or early 4th. Sitton will be 31 this year so I suspect in one or maybe two, he will be starting at LG and play at a high level.

 

As far as your comment on drafting 3 players from small schools. Let me just throw you out some names from small schools. Peanut Tillmam, Sid Luckman, Walter Payton,Richard Dent, Chris Villarrial, Marty Booker, Wally Chambers.

All this is a perfect segway into Bill Walsh. He had no problem with unconventional drafting and trading. That's how you eve up with Jerry Rice. Walsh took a ton of crap for that trade up because Jerry ran a 4.7. Walsh's statement was simply stated that he watched film and never saw Jerry caught from behind...

[Alaskan Grizzly]

All this is a perfect segway into Bill Walsh. He had no problem with unconventional drafting and trading. That's how you eve up with Jerry Rice. Walsh took a ton of crap for that trade up because Jerry ran a 4.7. Walsh's statement was simply stated that he watched film and never saw Jerry caught from behind...

 

Wow, comparing Walsh and Pace? Now that's a stretch.

[Mongo3451]

Wow, comparing Walsh and Pace? Now that's a stretch.

Hey, you're the second person today to put fake words in my mouth. And Congrats! You have a new quarterback to unabashedly hate...

[scs787]

While the subject of small schools is out there I wanted to take a look back at some old Saints drafts, since that is where Pace came from.....

 

Here are some schools I stumbled upon.

 

Arkansas Pine Bluff

Regina

Towson

Bloomsburg

Hofstra

 

 

Ya know who went to those schools?

 

Terron Armstead- Pro Bowl LT

Akiem Hicks- Really good football player as we know

Jermon Bushrod- 2x Pro Bowl LT

Jahari Evans- 6x pro bowl/4x all pro

Marques Colston- 6 1000+ yard seasons.

 

Pace wasnt the GM, but he was around for all these picks.

[scs787]

Also, here's a fun article from when they drafted Jimmy Graham......

 

www.canalstreetchronicles.com/2010/4/23/1440555/2010-nfl-draft-new-orleans-saints

 

1 year of college football.

 

Not sure why the link isn't clickable

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Hey, you're the second person today to put fake words in my mouth. And Congrats! You have a new quarterback to unabashedly hate...

 

So I "unabashedly hate" Trubisky? Did you not read anything I've written? If I'm 'displeased' with anyone it's Pace. It's not Trubisky's fault he's potentially overrated. He could very well work out. I'll say it again; don't like how we got him. And I'm not impressed with what he's accomplished thus far. No where do I approach the definition of hate...let alone without shame.

 

Since I put words in your mouth, why don't you explain to me in yourself what your you meant with the Walsh comment?

[Alaskan Grizzly]

While the subject of small schools is out there I wanted to take a look back at some old Saints drafts, since that is where Pace came from.....

 

Here are some schools I stumbled upon.

 

Arkansas Pine Bluff

Regina

Towson

Bloomsburg

Hofstra

 

 

Ya know who went to those schools?

 

Terron Armstead- Pro Bowl LT

Akiem Hicks- Really good football player as we know

Jermon Bushrod- 2x Pro Bowl LT

Jahari Evans- 6x pro bowl/4x all pro

Marques Colston- 6 1000+ yard seasons.

 

Pace wasnt the GM, but he was around for all these picks.

 

Hey if Pace turns out to be right and one of those three players significantly contributes this year I'll eat crow. If two; I'll eat my hat. If all three make the Pro Bowl someday, it'll eat the clothes I'm wearing today. Right here, right now this smells too much like Emery's style to me.

[AZ54]

So I "unabashedly hate" Trubisky? Did you not read anything I've written? If I'm 'displeased' with anyone it's Pace. It's not Trubisky's fault he's potentially overrated. He could very well work out. I'll say it again; don't like how we got him. And I'm not impressed with what he's accomplished thus far. No where do I approach the definition of hate...let alone without shame.

 

Since I put words in your mouth, why don't you explain to me in yourself what your you meant with the Walsh comment?

 

If we didn't do what we did we wouldn't have Trubisky.

 

http://bearswire.usatoday.com/2017/05/01/e...e-for-trubisky/

 

If he was the QB you liked in this draft (I did) then it's a mute point because IMO if he's the one then you do what you have to in order to get him.

 

What we know now based on that Cleveland team that "schooled us" on how and who to draft is that they absolutely wanted Trubisky and were ready to trade with us to get #3 and take him.

 

When SF was on the clock, Pace was on the phone with Cleveland who wanted to trade up. Pace had every reason to think if he didn't trade back with them then Cleveland could readily assume that...

 

A) It was likely Trubisky was our target. This was a draft deep in defensive talent and if Pace's goal was to stick with Glennon and gather as much talent as he could in the draft then a trade back made a lot of sense for Chicago. It's what everyone was expecting after we signed Glennon.

 

B ) Cleveland would then know they have to make a trade with the 49ers. Pace already knew how much they were willing to give up for #3 so he knew they were all in. As soon as Chicago says we're not interested in trading out of our spot until we see who is on the board then Cleveland hangs up and calls SF.

 

The School Master showed Pace their hand and Pace took full advantage of it. As soon as Cleveland saw we made the trade with the 49ers they knew screwed up.

 

It is also a fact the School Master didn't like either Watson or Mahomes, at least not enough to trade up as they were trying to do for Trubisky. Actually, they didn't want Watson at all because they traded away from him at #12. Nor did they think much of Kizer since they took two other players before they felt he was worth a pick. The bottom line is the School Master had a similar draft grade on Trubisky as we did and were equally willing to go up as far as needed to get him.

 

We'll wait to see if Trubisky is worth it but for the way Pace managed this draft deal to get his player, including all the smoke screens in advance, he gets an A plus. He had to keep Cleveland from taking Trubisky #1 overall, which meant Pace couldn't trade up to #2 in advance of the draft, and he had to keep Cleveland from trading up to #2 before SF was on the clock. That may have included an $18mil dollar smoke screen by the name of Mike Glennon, although I think having Glennon in place to help us win now was always part of the plan.

[Stinger226]

No I think you misunderstood my point. On the one hand, we (you) are placing value on what others (experts) have said about Trubisky but in the same breath de-valuing other experts when they question the rationale for the pick in the way the Bears did it. And since we're 'there' discussing this plethora of accolades from the experts who rated Trubisky as the top QB prospect; please list them out for me. I'm curious on what basis they made this measurement? Again, the kid's only got 13 games under his belt. And I might add this one caveat; Trubisky was a three year player for North Carolina but didn't start until this last year. Why couldn't he beat out Marquise Williams? By the way, where is he these days? And before you choose to belittle my opinion again, understand I'm not totally against the choice, just how it was done.

 

 

 

A few quotes about Cohen from other sources than your own: "Too eager to bounce everything. Takes his share of negative yardage carries. Feet are electric, but footwork and run track on zone plays needs work. Takes big hits from big men when trying to fight out of tackles and squeeze out extra yards. Stature and short arms make him a tougher target for quarterbacks. Has almost no experience as a punt or kick returner on special teams.

And: "He has no value on special teams, as he doesn’t have much experience as a returner. Considering that he’s only 5’6″ and 179 pounds, that’s worrisome. Speaking of size, his frame is less than ideal. It’s unlikely that he’ll ever be able to handle a full NFL workload. At best, he’s the type of guy to get four or five touches per game."

 

So tell me again how valuable Cohen will be with "no experience as a returner" and only probably contributing "4-5 carries per game"?

 

 

 

I'll be more than happy to point out your being wrong. Just like when you were convinced Cutler was a Franchise QB. This too shall pass...

 

 

 

Talk about reading comprehension, or lack thereof, I actually like this pick. Already said so. I'm concerned about his injury history but like Everything else about him. Alabama defender, team leader and one time top rated cover safety. All things we actually need.

 

 

 

Since you apparently did the math already, and since you went back as far as 1939 with Sid Luckman (they had "small schools" then?), tell me how successful the small school draftees were compared to the more traditional DI products. With 3 of the 5 picks being from small schools, I don't get an overwhelming feeling of potential success.

You use words like (inexplicable),and are negative about everything. I choose to be positive. You can find statements made on either side of the fence on any player drafted. I liked Cutler in the beginning and and being a Bears fan I was hoping he would be great, he was not, but it is not about being right or wrong( of which seems to be very important to you) its about wanting your favorite team to be successful. So now I am understanding you a lot better, take the negative on everything and you can tell everybody on smart you are.

As I stated you do not judge a draft in a couple of days, it takes 3 years, it is okay to have opinions, I choose to hope for the best and try to understand Pace and his plan, you choose to find fault in everything. I tried to go back with my examples of small school players because it is very apparent you live in the past alot.

 

The key to any GM is to evaluate talent no matter where they come from, the post was to try to point out that I think Pace has did a good job at it so far. In a few years we will find out the answer to all of our questions on his choices. I think Cohen will be a very exciting weapon in our offense and you choose to pick opinions that say he will not. We will find out very soon, how that turns out. Shaheen is a boom or bust type of player too, but sitting here right now, i would like to think he will be a good choice and you choose to find fault. I stated before, I did not like this draft except for Jackson, but the more I investigate the choices, I have a better understanding of why Pace made the choices. Pace is placing his job on the line making the choices he made, I like his conviction. History tells us some will be good choices and some will fail, the whole key to this is to want the Bears to be successful and hope he made the right choices. I am an optimist and your a pessimist , we all make our choices.

[Mongo3451]

So I "unabashedly hate" Trubisky? Did you not read anything I've written? If I'm 'displeased' with anyone it's Pace. It's not Trubisky's fault he's potentially overrated. He could very well work out. I'll say it again; don't like how we got him. And I'm not impressed with what he's accomplished thus far. No where do I approach the definition of hate...let alone without shame.

 

Since I put words in your mouth, why don't you explain to me in yourself what your you meant with the Walsh comment?

Stingers post reminded me of the Bill Walsh piece I saw on NFL NETWORK.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

If we didn't do what we did we wouldn't have Trubisky.

 

http://bearswire.usatoday.com/2017/05/01/e...e-for-trubisky/

 

If he was the QB you liked in this draft (I did) then it's a mute point because IMO if he's the one then you do what you have to in order to get him.

 

What we know now based on that Cleveland team that "schooled us" on how and who to draft is that they absolutely wanted Trubisky and were ready to trade with us to get #3 and take him.

 

When SF was on the clock, Pace was on the phone with Cleveland who wanted to trade up. Pace had every reason to think if he didn't trade back with them then Cleveland could readily assume that...

 

A) It was likely Trubisky was our target. This was a draft deep in defensive talent and if Pace's goal was to stick with Glennon and gather as much talent as he could in the draft then a trade back made a lot of sense for Chicago. It's what everyone was expecting after we signed Glennon.

 

B ) Cleveland would then know they have to make a trade with the 49ers. Pace already knew how much they were willing to give up for #3 so he knew they were all in. As soon as Chicago says we're not interested in trading out of our spot until we see who is on the board then Cleveland hangs up and calls SF.

 

The School Master showed Pace their hand and Pace took full advantage of it. As soon as Cleveland saw we made the trade with the 49ers they knew screwed up.

 

It is also a fact the School Master didn't like either Watson or Mahomes, at least not enough to trade up as they were trying to do for Trubisky. Actually, they didn't want Watson at all because they traded away from him at #12. Nor did they think much of Kizer since they took two other players before they felt he was worth a pick. The bottom line is the School Master had a similar draft grade on Trubisky as we did and were equally willing to go up as far as needed to get him.

 

We'll wait to see if Trubisky is worth it but for the way Pace managed this draft deal to get his player, including all the smoke screens in advance, he gets an A plus. He had to keep Cleveland from taking Trubisky #1 overall, which meant Pace couldn't trade up to #2 in advance of the draft, and he had to keep Cleveland from trading up to #2 before SF was on the clock. That may have included an $18mil dollar smoke screen by the name of Mike Glennon, although I think having Glennon in place to help us win now was always part of the plan.

 

Not so sure I believe this. Even in the video that was linked in your story, Schefter was speculating an awful lot about what he thought happened. Here's another perspective from some other beat reporters:

 

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2017/4/28/1547...rade-2017-draft

 

And then there's this. A perspective from the 49ers draft room. They were nearly incredulous of Paces want for Trubisky:

 

https://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/05/01/san-fra...ster-peter-king

 

For what it's worth, perhaps Trubisky will be the QB we've needed all this time. But I feel that this trade up one spot (from 3 to 2, and a bunch of other 'commodities' to do it) was poorly executed.

 

 

[Stinger226]

Not so sure I believe this. Even in the video that was linked in your story, Schefter was speculating an awful lot about what he thought happened. Here's another perspective from some other beat reporters:

 

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2017/4/28/1547...rade-2017-draft

 

And then there's this. A perspective from the 49ers draft room. They were nearly incredulous of Paces want for Trubisky:

 

https://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/05/01/san-fra...ster-peter-king

 

For what it's worth, perhaps Trubisky will be the QB we've needed all this time. But I feel that this trade up one spot (from 3 to 2, and a bunch of other 'commodities' to do it) was poorly executed.

I can now see the effect of all of these positive soothsayers. you went from( inexplicable) to poorly executed). There is hope for you yet.