AZ54 Posted May 7, 2017 Report Share Posted May 7, 2017 http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/05/02/nfl-chi...-2017-nfl-draft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChileBear Posted May 7, 2017 Report Share Posted May 7, 2017 http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/05/02/nfl-chi...-2017-nfl-draft Good read. Makes the crap about Fox not knowing seem dubious at the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted May 7, 2017 Report Share Posted May 7, 2017 Great read. My preference is for him not to play a down this year. I'm hoping Glennon tears it up. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted May 8, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 8, 2017 Good read. Makes the crap about Fox not knowing seem dubious at the least. There's a lot of crap out there about this pick. Fox was all smiles the day Trubisky arrived at Halas Hall. He certainly didn't look like a head coach who was handed a death sentence now that the plan is to have Trubisky sit for a year. If Fox or his coaching staff didn't like that plan they could have easily leaked out more tidbits about how much the Bears liked Trubisky. It wouldn't have taken much to convince Cleveland they had to trade up to #2 before the draft. If they had an idea the Bears were taking Trubisky on draft day they could have easily out-bid the Bears' offer with SF. Instead Pace had Cleveland on one phone talking trade down, and SF on the other completing the trade up deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted May 8, 2017 Report Share Posted May 8, 2017 There's a lot of crap out there about this pick. Fox was all smiles the day Trubisky arrived at Halas Hall. He certainly didn't look like a head coach who was handed a death sentence now that the plan is to have Trubisky sit for a year. If Fox or his coaching staff didn't like that plan they could have easily leaked out more tidbits about how much the Bears liked Trubisky. It wouldn't have taken much to convince Cleveland they had to trade up to #2 before the draft. If they had an idea the Bears were taking Trubisky on draft day they could have easily out-bid the Bears' offer with SF. Instead Pace had Cleveland on one phone talking trade down, and SF on the other completing the trade up deal. Your right about all of this. I think the Bears have taken so much flack is because no one knew what they were doing and it was such a surprise. All the so called experts were so wrong and it didnt make them look good, so they bad mouth it. They paid less that most situations of moving up that high to get a QB. No one will know for three years if this was a good move. I think with bringing in Glennon he was hedging his choice if he lost out on Tribusky, plus i idea situation would be to let him set for 2 years before letting him take over. I think this was a sound decision and will prove out. I totally was not on board with this in the beginning but have grown more accepting of the whole draft. I think the rest of the draft is a question mark, but I think Pace can judge talent it will prove out in a couple of years. Shaheen turns into a stud TE, good for Tribusky when ready. Jackson should start this year. Cohen should have a exciting role going forward. Morgan will replace Sitton when it starts to slide. When we look back we will laud this draft, just cant do that right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted May 8, 2017 Report Share Posted May 8, 2017 Your right about all of this. I think the Bears have taken so much flack is because no one knew what they were doing and it was such a surprise. All the so called experts were so wrong and it didnt make them look good, so they bad mouth it. They paid less that most situations of moving up that high to get a QB. No one will know for three years if this was a good move. I think with bringing in Glennon he was hedging his choice if he lost out on Tribusky, plus i idea situation would be to let him set for 2 years before letting him take over. I think this was a sound decision and will prove out. I totally was not on board with this in the beginning but have grown more accepting of the whole draft. I think the rest of the draft is a question mark, but I think Pace can judge talent it will prove out in a couple of years. Shaheen turns into a stud TE, good for Tribusky when ready. Jackson should start this year. Cohen should have a exciting role going forward. Morgan will replace Sitton when it starts to slide. When we look back we will laud this draft, just cant do that right now. The Bears haven't taken a lot of flack because of the uncertainty. The Bears have taken a lot of flack because they went completely against conventional wisdom and took an entire draft full of risks. (Yeah, yeah, I know all picks are risks, but these are different.) Trubisky - Only one year starting, cost the Bears extra picks they couldn't afford Shaheen - Unproven, except against DII scrubs Jackson - Broken leg, and we certainly know by now that those can linger Cohen - Unproven, except against MEAC scrubs Morgan - Unproven, except against DII scrubs They literally didn't take a single player who is healthy, and has sustained, outstanding production against high-level DI competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted May 8, 2017 Report Share Posted May 8, 2017 The Bears haven't taken a lot of flack because of the uncertainty. The Bears have taken a lot of flack because they went completely against conventional wisdom and took an entire draft full of risks. (Yeah, yeah, I know all picks are risks, but these are different.) Trubisky - Only one year starting, cost the Bears extra picks they couldn't afford Shaheen - Unproven, except against DII scrubs Jackson - Broken leg, and we certainly know by now that those can linger Cohen - Unproven, except against MEAC scrubs Morgan - Unproven, except against DII scrubs They literally didn't take a single player who is healthy, and has sustained, outstanding production against high-level DI competition. It doesnt matter how it looks now, it is about those turning out to be good players. Would you rather have a draft that looks good on paper or actually turns into talented players? Two years we will know that answer, as I said before , I would have did it differently but it aint my job on the line. He will live or die with this draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luciano Posted May 8, 2017 Report Share Posted May 8, 2017 The Bears haven't taken a lot of flack because of the uncertainty. The Bears have taken a lot of flack because they went completely against conventional wisdom and took an entire draft full of risks. (Yeah, yeah, I know all picks are risks, but these are different.) Trubisky - Only one year starting, cost the Bears extra picks they couldn't afford Shaheen - Unproven, except against DII scrubs Jackson - Broken leg, and we certainly know by now that those can linger Cohen - Unproven, except against MEAC scrubs Morgan - Unproven, except against DII scrubs They literally didn't take a single player who is healthy, and has sustained, outstanding production against high-level DI competition. "Shaheen - Unproven, except against DII scrubs" where do you come up with this stuff? in TWO of your mock? drafts you have us picking a TE... one in the 2nd and one in the 3rd. are you now saying picking a TE in those rounds is not a smart thing to do now? shaheen is listed as the 4th best or better TE in the draft at some sites. these players were already drafted before we picked: o.j. howard; david njoku; evan engram; gerald everett. so HOW is this a bad pick before you have even seen this guy with a bears uniform on? http://www.talkbears.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12190 ================================================================================ ranked 5th for TE's and PROJECTED as a possible 2nd round pick ... this from the site of imbeciles that gave us an F grade: Adam Shaheen, TE, Ashland Height: 6-6. Weight: 278. Arm: 33.5. Hand: 9.63. 40 Time: 4.79. Projected Round (2017): 2-4. 4/25/17: Sources say that Shaheen is a freak athlete who has a ton of upside for the NFL. Shaheen is impressive in workouts, and team sources say that his tape showed serious receiving ability for the next level. Even though he is tall and thick, Shaheen has surprising speed and athleticism for such a big tight end. Teams think that Shaheen could be a versatile tight end to create mismatches in the passing game. Shaheen caught 57 passes for 867 yards with 16 touchdowns in 2016. The previous season, he had 70 receptions for 803 yards and 10 touchdowns. Some team sources even compared Shaheen to Patriots star tight end Rob Gronkowski. Read more at http://walterfootball.com/draft2017TE.php#...d7O1mqSpBiDj.99 ============================================================================= CBS NFL DRAFT TE RATINGS: O.J. Howard TE 1 Alabama Sr 6-6 251 1 20 *David Njoku TE 2 Miami (Fla.) rSo 6-4 246 1 41 Evan Engram TE 3 Ole Miss Sr 6-3 234 2 51 *Adam Shaheen TE 4 Ashland rJr 6-6 278 2 http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2017/TE ====================================================== Steelers.com listed as fourth TE in the draft: ADAM SHAHEEN Shaheen (6-6 1/2, 278) began his career in college athletics as a basketball player at Pitt-Johnstown (he averaged 5.5 points and 3.1 rebounds per game in 2013-14). The 16 touchdown passes caught by Shaheen at Ashland in 2016 (an NCAA Div. II record for a tight ends) got the NFL’s attention. “There’s a ton of interest in this kid,” Mayock said at the Combine. “The entire NFL was looking forward to watching Adam Shaheen this week.” NFL.com analyst Lance Zierlein sees in Shaheen a player who possesses “starting potential with an ability to impact a passing game early in his career.” http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/201...13-35774e451aaa ========================================================= Draft Countdown: 1. O.J. Howard Alabama 6-5¾ 251 4.51 2. David Njoku Miami (FL) 6-4 246 4.64 3. Evan Engram Mississippi 6-3⅜ 234 4.42 4. Adam Shaheen Ashland 6-6½ 278 4.79 http://www.draftcountdown.com/nfl-draft-ra...t-end-rankings/ ============================================== you need MORE?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luciano Posted May 8, 2017 Report Share Posted May 8, 2017 The Bears haven't taken a lot of flack because of the uncertainty. The Bears have taken a lot of flack because they went completely against conventional wisdom and took an entire draft full of risks. (Yeah, yeah, I know all picks are risks, but these are different.) Trubisky - Only one year starting, cost the Bears extra picks they couldn't afford Shaheen - Unproven, except against DII scrubs Jackson - Broken leg, and we certainly know by now that those can linger Cohen - Unproven, except against MEAC scrubs Morgan - Unproven, except against DII scrubs They literally didn't take a single player who is healthy, and has sustained, outstanding production against high-level DI competition. Cohen - Unproven, except against MEAC scrubs huh?? he was a 4th round pick. that is to high of a pick for you? this is the round you get projects or guys with potential or special teams guys. a post from YOU: Is RB a high need? No. Do we need a complement to Howard? Maybe. Some say yes. If so, what does this complement need? I'd say some of the following: -Elusiveness -Home Run speed -Ability to catch out of the backfield Gents, I present to you, Tarik Cohen, RB, NC A&T. You may not have heard of this guy, but I'm pretty familiar with him. He's undersized, but pretty damn amazing. He'll likely run a low 4.4 forty, runs with power for his size, and makes the right decision over and over. He'd be a great complement to Howard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted May 8, 2017 Report Share Posted May 8, 2017 I agree, there is a whole lot of BS on this board right now. Reading draft papers and then digging on the Bears for not following "conventional wisdom" is the kind of thinking that got us players like David Terrell. For many years, we took conventional wisdom picks. Now we have a staff that does their own homework and knows how to take risks. GOOD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted May 8, 2017 Report Share Posted May 8, 2017 "Shaheen - Unproven, except against DII scrubs" where do you come up with this stuff? in TWO of your mock? drafts you have us picking a TE... one in the 2nd and one in the 3rd. are you now saying picking a TE in those rounds is not a smart thing to do now? shaheen is listed as the 4th best or better TE in the draft at some sites. these players were already drafted before we picked: o.j. howard; david njoku; evan engram; gerald everett. so HOW is this a bad pick before you have even seen this guy with a bears uniform on? http://www.talkbears.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12190 ================================================================================ ranked 5th for TE's and PROJECTED as a possible 2nd round pick ... this from the site of imbeciles that gave us an F grade: Adam Shaheen, TE, Ashland Height: 6-6. Weight: 278. Arm: 33.5. Hand: 9.63. 40 Time: 4.79. Projected Round (2017): 2-4. 4/25/17: Sources say that Shaheen is a freak athlete who has a ton of upside for the NFL. Shaheen is impressive in workouts, and team sources say that his tape showed serious receiving ability for the next level. Even though he is tall and thick, Shaheen has surprising speed and athleticism for such a big tight end. Teams think that Shaheen could be a versatile tight end to create mismatches in the passing game. Shaheen caught 57 passes for 867 yards with 16 touchdowns in 2016. The previous season, he had 70 receptions for 803 yards and 10 touchdowns. Some team sources even compared Shaheen to Patriots star tight end Rob Gronkowski. Read more at http://walterfootball.com/draft2017TE.php#...d7O1mqSpBiDj.99 ============================================================================= CBS NFL DRAFT TE RATINGS: O.J. Howard TE 1 Alabama Sr 6-6 251 1 20 *David Njoku TE 2 Miami (Fla.) rSo 6-4 246 1 41 Evan Engram TE 3 Ole Miss Sr 6-3 234 2 51 *Adam Shaheen TE 4 Ashland rJr 6-6 278 2 http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2017/TE ====================================================== Steelers.com listed as fourth TE in the draft: ADAM SHAHEEN Shaheen (6-6 1/2, 278) began his career in college athletics as a basketball player at Pitt-Johnstown (he averaged 5.5 points and 3.1 rebounds per game in 2013-14). The 16 touchdown passes caught by Shaheen at Ashland in 2016 (an NCAA Div. II record for a tight ends) got the NFL’s attention. “There’s a ton of interest in this kid,” Mayock said at the Combine. “The entire NFL was looking forward to watching Adam Shaheen this week.” NFL.com analyst Lance Zierlein sees in Shaheen a player who possesses “starting potential with an ability to impact a passing game early in his career.” http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/201...13-35774e451aaa ========================================================= Draft Countdown: 1. O.J. Howard Alabama 6-5¾ 251 4.51 2. David Njoku Miami (FL) 6-4 246 4.64 3. Evan Engram Mississippi 6-3⅜ 234 4.42 4. Adam Shaheen Ashland 6-6½ 278 4.79 http://www.draftcountdown.com/nfl-draft-ra...t-end-rankings/ ============================================== you need MORE?? The context that Jason delivered this, with which I agree, had to do with the overall draft process, not so much the individual picks. Of note, you used Walterfootball as one of your cites which (along with a few other post-draft sites) graded our draft as an overall 'F'. And many here flamed because of it. So should their pre-draft analysis of Shaheen be taken with a grain of salt? As far as some of the others; "Draftcountdown" just last year listed Wentz (#1 QB, #10 overall), Paxton Lynch (#2, #11) and Goff (#3, #14) as the top three QB's. Dak Prescott? Not in the top 32. These things are VERY subjective, especially this early on. Combine the large cost of getting Trubisky with 3 lower tier prospects with just 5 overall picks to choose from, makes me question Pace's choices. Individually they may all do great, or collectively they could all fail. It's too early to tell at this point. But the quality to total number of players chosen ratio is unfavorable, at least on paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted May 8, 2017 Report Share Posted May 8, 2017 "Shaheen - Unproven, except against DII scrubs" where do you come up with this stuff? in TWO of your mock? drafts you have us picking a TE... one in the 2nd and one in the 3rd. are you now saying picking a TE in those rounds is not a smart thing to do now? shaheen is listed as the 4th best or better TE in the draft at some sites. these players were already drafted before we picked: o.j. howard; david njoku; evan engram; gerald everett. so HOW is this a bad pick before you have even seen this guy with a bears uniform on? http://www.talkbears.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12190 ================================================================================ ranked 5th for TE's and PROJECTED as a possible 2nd round pick ... this from the site of imbeciles that gave us an F grade: Adam Shaheen, TE, Ashland Height: 6-6. Weight: 278. Arm: 33.5. Hand: 9.63. 40 Time: 4.79. Projected Round (2017): 2-4. 4/25/17: Sources say that Shaheen is a freak athlete who has a ton of upside for the NFL. Shaheen is impressive in workouts, and team sources say that his tape showed serious receiving ability for the next level. Even though he is tall and thick, Shaheen has surprising speed and athleticism for such a big tight end. Teams think that Shaheen could be a versatile tight end to create mismatches in the passing game. Shaheen caught 57 passes for 867 yards with 16 touchdowns in 2016. The previous season, he had 70 receptions for 803 yards and 10 touchdowns. Some team sources even compared Shaheen to Patriots star tight end Rob Gronkowski. Read more at http://walterfootball.com/draft2017TE.php#...d7O1mqSpBiDj.99 ============================================================================= CBS NFL DRAFT TE RATINGS: O.J. Howard TE 1 Alabama Sr 6-6 251 1 20 *David Njoku TE 2 Miami (Fla.) rSo 6-4 246 1 41 Evan Engram TE 3 Ole Miss Sr 6-3 234 2 51 *Adam Shaheen TE 4 Ashland rJr 6-6 278 2 http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2017/TE ====================================================== Steelers.com listed as fourth TE in the draft: ADAM SHAHEEN Shaheen (6-6 1/2, 278) began his career in college athletics as a basketball player at Pitt-Johnstown (he averaged 5.5 points and 3.1 rebounds per game in 2013-14). The 16 touchdown passes caught by Shaheen at Ashland in 2016 (an NCAA Div. II record for a tight ends) got the NFL’s attention. “There’s a ton of interest in this kid,” Mayock said at the Combine. “The entire NFL was looking forward to watching Adam Shaheen this week.” NFL.com analyst Lance Zierlein sees in Shaheen a player who possesses “starting potential with an ability to impact a passing game early in his career.” http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/201...13-35774e451aaa ========================================================= Draft Countdown: 1. O.J. Howard Alabama 6-5¾ 251 4.51 2. David Njoku Miami (FL) 6-4 246 4.64 3. Evan Engram Mississippi 6-3⅜ 234 4.42 4. Adam Shaheen Ashland 6-6½ 278 4.79 http://www.draftcountdown.com/nfl-draft-ra...t-end-rankings/ ============================================== you need MORE?? You apparently didn't bother to read what I posted. It's about the uncertainty of the picks. And there is definite uncertainty when picking a 2nd round TE from a DII school. DII is nowhere near the same as FBS talent. There is no doubting this. Simply stated, there is naturally going to be a much better hit percentage selecting from higher level FBS than there is from DII conferences. And if you look at the first link you posted, you would see I didn't think Shaheen was the right guy. I hope I'm wrong, but choosing DII guys is just not the same as choosing FBS guys. Choosing a TE is not the same as choosing "any" TE. What's so difficult to understand about that? If it was simply about picking a position, then a lot more DII guys would probably get drafted. But they don't, because DII talents is inferior on the whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted May 8, 2017 Report Share Posted May 8, 2017 Cohen - Unproven, except against MEAC scrubs huh?? he was a 4th round pick. that is to high of a pick for you? this is the round you get projects or guys with potential or special teams guys. a post from YOU: Is RB a high need? No. Do we need a complement to Howard? Maybe. Some say yes. If so, what does this complement need? I'd say some of the following: -Elusiveness -Home Run speed -Ability to catch out of the backfield Gents, I present to you, Tarik Cohen, RB, NC A&T. You may not have heard of this guy, but I'm pretty familiar with him. He's undersized, but pretty damn amazing. He'll likely run a low 4.4 forty, runs with power for his size, and makes the right decision over and over. He'd be a great complement to Howard. And if you look at that post, it was from a thread that was something like "Great 7th round guy." Not a 4th round guy. The fact is, he beat up on weaker competition in the MEAC. And the main problem is that Pace took a risk with every single pick, not just one. If he had taken a single risk, it's not as bad. But when every single pick is a risk (e.g. DII & FCS, injured, minimal experience), it's hard to say it's a good draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted May 8, 2017 Report Share Posted May 8, 2017 The context that Jason delivered this, with which I agree, had to do with the overall draft process, not so much the individual picks. Of note, you used Walterfootball as one of your cites which (along with a few other post-draft sites) graded our draft as an overall 'F'. And many here flamed because of it. So should their pre-draft analysis of Shaheen be taken with a grain of salt? As far as some of the others; "Draftcountdown" just last year listed Wentz (#1 QB, #10 overall), Paxton Lynch (#2, #11) and Goff (#3, #14) as the top three QB's. Dak Prescott? Not in the top 32. These things are VERY subjective, especially this early on. Combine the large cost of getting Trubisky with 3 lower tier prospects with just 5 overall picks to choose from, makes me question Pace's choices. Individually they may all do great, or collectively they could all fail. It's too early to tell at this point. But the quality to total number of players chosen ratio is unfavorable, at least on paper. Precisely. You can't use Walterfootball to say Shaheen is the #4 TE and a stud, but then discount Walterfootball when they rip the Bears' draft as being one of the worst ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted May 8, 2017 Report Share Posted May 8, 2017 Precisely. You can't use Walterfootball to say Shaheen is the #4 TE and a stud, but then discount Walterfootball when they rip the Bears' draft as being one of the worst ever. I agree these are boom or bust players, but Shaheen was drafted about his value spot in many different draft sites. We can find one that has him as the 75th rated player or one that shows him as the 45th rated player. The point is, Pace is not the only one that thinks he will be a high end player. Two years we can have this conversation and you can be bragging about being right, or enjoying the success of these high risk players. it simply can not be judged at this time. As a Bears fan, I hope he is spot on with all these risky players. I thought the pick sucked until i investigated it further, now I think he could turn out to be a Jason Witten type. Reliable target and big in the red zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted May 9, 2017 Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 I agree these are boom or bust players, but Shaheen was drafted about his value spot in many different draft sites. We can find one that has him as the 75th rated player or one that shows him as the 45th rated player. The point is, Pace is not the only one that thinks he will be a high end player. Two years we can have this conversation and you can be bragging about being right, or enjoying the success of these high risk players. it simply can not be judged at this time. As a Bears fan, I hope he is spot on with all these risky players. I thought the pick sucked until i investigated it further, now I think he could turn out to be a Jason Witten type. Reliable target and big in the red zone. Or...remember this guy? http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/kellen-davis?id=1066 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted May 9, 2017 Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 Pace isnt caretaking a solid roster, he's taking flyers on riskier prospects that have more upside. He would rather have one stud and one bust than two predictably serviceable players drafted at value, because hes still searching for the core players that will define this team, not filling holes at the edges. Also, at some point, you gotta trust your scouts, and if they say something different than the draft magazines, maybe, just maybe they know better. Given that these are riskier players, I think we should take a wait and see it on the field attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted May 9, 2017 Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 Pace isnt caretaking a solid roster, he's taking flyers on riskier prospects that have more upside. He would rather have one stud and one bust than two predictably serviceable players drafted at value, because hes still searching for the core players that will define this team, not filling holes at the edges. Also, at some point, you gotta trust your scouts, and if they say something different than the draft magazines, maybe, just maybe they know better. Given that these are riskier players, I think we should take a wait and see it on the field attitude. Agree. Awfully risky endeavor though. I guess some prefer four double, and others want a HR and strikeouts. For the record, I don't think I've seen multiple drafts in a row, much less a stretch of them, where the Bears were thought of as having great drafts. Do conventional wisdom may have gotten David Terrell, but it has been ignored more than followed by Bears' front offices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted May 9, 2017 Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 Agree. Awfully risky endeavor though. I guess some prefer four double, and others want a HR and strikeouts. For the record, I don't think I've seen multiple drafts in a row, much less a stretch of them, where the Bears were thought of as having great drafts. Do conventional wisdom may have gotten David Terrell, but it has been ignored more than followed by Bears' front offices. Thats cool, I agree that Bears front offices of the past have been atrocious. Since Jim Finks left, we have been AWFUL. But Pace & Co come from Ernie Accorsi courtesy of the NFL competition committee. When I look at a team like the Packers, I see what a team culture looks like. They go through coaches, players etc, but they run the same scheme. The scouts all know exactly what attributes players need for each position - and which ones are superfluous. And when a player comes in with strengths and weaknesses, he can look at film of the people playing the same positions for the last 20 years and see that they too had similar abilities, and shortcomings, and watch how to plug into the system. It's not enough to have a good pass rusher and a goo linebacker behind him. They need to be complementary pieces in an overall scheme that is understood the same way by GM, coaches, position coaches and scouts alike. That's what Accorsi gave us. He gave us the newest branch of the Parcells tree, and this is why we went to a 3-4 too. It will take time, and we will see if these guys are good at their jobs or not. If not, with any luck they will be replaced by other people who speak Parcells tree language. THAT is how you build success for the long term. Hopefully Bears ownership just stays out of the way, and lets the machine work, and if they do step in, hopefully they replace people with people of similar philosophy. In this light, the idea to hire Tucker and tell him to run Lovie's defense was classic shortsighted Bears crap dressed up as continuity. HA. From one year to another, but not across decades and teams etc. So Im inclined to look at this staff as a new animal. I dont put the weight of the silliness that came before onto them. Onto the owners? Hell yes. But I dont think they are calling many shots right now. I truly hope that Pace develops a long term culture for the Bears, and is around for many years to tend it. God help us if this all falls flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted May 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 Or...remember this guy? http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/kellen-davis?id=1066 One big difference between the self-made Shaheen and Davis is their work ethic.. "Davis lacks great quickness off the snap and hasn't shown the willingness to work hard to improve his route-running and blocking." "Davis hasn't demonstrated the work ethic to improve and his 2006 arrest for an off-field fight will scare off some clubs. Still, a team will fall in love with his potential and draft him higher than his production and past work ethic warrants." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChileBear Posted May 9, 2017 Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 So Im inclined to look at this staff as a new animal. I dont put the weight of the silliness that came before onto them. Onto the owners? Hell yes. But I dont think they are calling many shots right now. I truly hope that Pace develops a long term culture for the Bears, and is around for many years to tend it. God help us if this all falls flat. Well said and I can't agree more. The only way to change is TO CHANGE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted May 9, 2017 Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 One big difference between the self-made Shaheen and Davis is their work prove his route-running and blocking." One other big difference; Davis played for an FBS in Michigan State whereas Shaheen did not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky Luciano Posted May 9, 2017 Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 You apparently didn't bother to read what I posted. It's about the uncertainty of the picks. And there is definite uncertainty when picking a 2nd round TE from a DII school. DII is nowhere near the same as FBS talent. There is no doubting this. Simply stated, there is naturally going to be a much better hit percentage selecting from higher level FBS than there is from DII conferences. hmmmm.... i "didn't bother to read what you posted"? what i was hoping to show you was in your 'mock drafts' you did have TE's selected in the 2nd or 3rd round slot. whether you agree with the picks that were posted on that site is moot. next... did i actually SAY or IMPLY that division 2 football has the same general talent level as division 1?? of COURSE you will find more players out of division 1 that make it in the NFL. the talent level due to recruitment is 'generally' HIGHER for one thing. riddle me this... does that EXCLUDE picking ALL players in the first 3-4 rounds from that division according to you? or just ones you didn't pick? And if you look at the first link you posted, you would see I didn't think Shaheen was the right guy. I hope I'm wrong, but choosing DII guys is just not the same as choosing FBS guys. Choosing a TE is not the same as choosing "any" TE. What's so difficult to understand about that? If it was simply about picking a position, then a lot more DII guys would probably get drafted. But they don't, because DII talents is inferior on the whole. difficult to understand? i assure you that it is not. the reason we are seeing more players from lesser division 1 and players from division 2 programs is because of the lack of talent to go around in the NFL. with the expansion of NFL teams over the last 25-30 years. you have watered down the existing amount of 'primo' football players available to the point that the play you are seeing now in the NFL is not of the highest quality. that means you scout teams and divisions you didn't have to in the past to make up for the lack of talent ESPECIALLY in key positions such as QB who were even in that day and age at a shortage. finally... I have no problem that you don't personally like that pick but to come out and say/imply this guy had no business being drafted this high is a ridiculous statement as shown by the draft analysis's i have read and posted. he was RATED as the 4th or 5th best TE in the 2017 draft who FITS what we want out of a TE in this system more than 'almost' any other TE chosen. this was a heavily talented TE draft class as touted by many on this very board unless everything i have been reading on here for months is total BS and we got a highly valued player no matter WHAT division he is from. that said, just for grins, here is a list of some recent division 2 players in the NFL: Zach Miller TE Chicago Nebraska-Omaha NCC** Jerrell Freeman, LB, Chicago Bears - University of Mary Hardin-Baylor Roberto Garza C Chicago Texas A&M-Kingsville LSC Danieal Manning – Abilene Christian - 2008 was designated All-Pro John Kuhn RB Green Bay Shippensburg PSAC Danny Woodhead RB San Diego Chadron State RMAC Jahri Evans - Pro Bowl offensive guard Jacoby Jones – Lane - 2012 Pro Bowl selection Brent Grimes – Shippensburg - Pro Bowls (2010 and 2013) Shannon Sharpe TE - Savannah State College - He was inducted into to the Pro Football Hall of Fame Brandon Carr – Grand Valley State Vincent Jackson – Northern Colorado - It should be noted that Northern Colorado is currently a Division I school, but was in Division II when Jackson played there. Nate Washington – Tiffin Damon “Snacks” Harrison - William Penn Khalil Mack - University of Buffalo Terron Armstead, LT, New Orleans Saints - Arkansas Pine-Bluff Jared Veldheer, LT, Arizona Cardinals - Hillsdale Malcolm Butler, DB, New England Patriots - Western Alabama Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted May 9, 2017 Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 One other big difference; Davis played for an FBS in Michigan State whereas Shaheen did not. If you are good, you are good. Doesn't matter where you come from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted May 9, 2017 Report Share Posted May 9, 2017 One bigger difference...Davis was drafted by Angelo, Shaheen by Pace. I like the odds of the latter panning out. One other big difference; Davis played for an FBS in Michigan State whereas Shaheen did not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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