Bears Covert Operations on Trubisky

[madlithuanian]

I concur...

 

Well said and I can't agree more. The only way to change is TO CHANGE.

 

[jason]

hmmmm.... i "didn't bother to read what you posted"? what i was hoping to show you was in your 'mock drafts' you did have TE's selected in the 2nd or 3rd round slot. whether you agree with the picks that were posted on that site is moot.

 

next... did i actually SAY or IMPLY that division 2 football has the same general talent level as division 1?? of COURSE you will find more players out of division 1 that make it in the NFL. the talent level due to recruitment is 'generally' HIGHER for one thing.

 

riddle me this... does that EXCLUDE picking ALL players in the first 3-4 rounds from that division according to you? or just ones you didn't pick?

 

difficult to understand? i assure you that it is not.

 

the reason we are seeing more players from lesser division 1 and players from division 2 programs is because of the lack of talent to go around in the NFL. with the expansion of NFL teams over the last 25-30 years. you have watered down the existing amount of 'primo' football players available to the point that the play you are seeing now in the NFL is not of the highest quality.

 

that means you scout teams and divisions you didn't have to in the past to make up for the lack of talent ESPECIALLY in key positions such as QB who were even in that day and age at a shortage.

 

finally... I have no problem that you don't personally like that pick but to come out and say/imply this guy had no business being drafted this high is a ridiculous statement as shown by the draft analysis's i have read and posted. he was RATED as the 4th or 5th best TE in the 2017 draft who FITS what we want out of a TE in this system more than 'almost' any other TE chosen.

 

this was a heavily talented TE draft class as touted by many on this very board unless everything i have been reading on here for months is total BS and we got a highly valued player no matter WHAT division he is from.

 

that said, just for grins, here is a list of some recent division 2 players in the NFL:

 

Zach Miller TE Chicago Nebraska-Omaha NCC**

Jerrell Freeman, LB, Chicago Bears - University of Mary Hardin-Baylor

Roberto Garza C Chicago Texas A&M-Kingsville LSC

Danieal Manning – Abilene Christian - 2008 was designated All-Pro

John Kuhn RB Green Bay Shippensburg PSAC

Danny Woodhead RB San Diego Chadron State RMAC

Jahri Evans - Pro Bowl offensive guard

Jacoby Jones – Lane - 2012 Pro Bowl selection

Brent Grimes – Shippensburg - Pro Bowls (2010 and 2013)

Shannon Sharpe TE - Savannah State College - He was inducted into to the Pro Football Hall of Fame

Brandon Carr – Grand Valley State

Vincent Jackson – Northern Colorado - It should be noted that Northern Colorado is currently a Division I school, but was in Division II when Jackson played there.

Nate Washington – Tiffin

Damon “Snacks” Harrison - William Penn

Khalil Mack - University of Buffalo

Terron Armstead, LT, New Orleans Saints - Arkansas Pine-Bluff

Jared Veldheer, LT, Arizona Cardinals - Hillsdale

Malcolm Butler, DB, New England Patriots - Western Alabama

 

The one you linked wasn't mine. It was Walter's. And I disagreed with where Shaheen was mocked. Just like I disagree with where he was picked by the Bears. But if you agree with Walter's mock about where Shaheen was ranked, then surely you agree with their evaluation of the Bears' draft as being one of the worst of all time. The same can be applied to just about any of those sites. They may have ranked Shaheen highly, but they're all ripping the Bears' draft. That's what I said in the original comment to which you replied. One risky pick, sure. An entire draft of risky picks, no thanks.

 

The list you provided is hilarious. You had to reach back to Shannon Sharpe and Roberto Garza? And you included a guy named "Snacks?" More telling is the fact that on that list, the Bears are heavily represented. Maybe coincidentally, the Bears have sucked for the majority of the past two decades.

 

Nobody is saying there aren't gems at lower levels. But to try to find three or four of those gems in the same draft is not a very solid strategy because, as your list has shown, there just isn't as much talent there and the odds of hitting are severely minimized. Think of it like the roulette wheel. Betting a color is like picking from FBS. Splitting your bet is like picking from FCS. Betting a straight up number is picking from DII or below.

 

BTW - I'd argue the reason you see more lower level scouting is because the NFL has become a multi-billion dollar industry and they have the resources to scout there. In the past they didn't.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

One bigger difference...Davis was drafted by Angelo, Shaheen by Pace.

 

I like the odds of the latter panning out.

 

But you're an eternal optimist so I'll lose every time with you. lol!!

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Just like I disagree with where he was picked by the Bears. But if you agree with Walter's mock about where Shaheen was ranked, then surely you agree with their evaluation of the Bears' draft as being one of the worst of all time. The same can be applied to just about any of those sites. They may have ranked Shaheen highly, but they're all ripping the Bears' draft. That's what I said in the original comment to which you replied. One risky pick, sure. An entire draft of risky picks, no thanks.

 

Nobody is saying there aren't gems at lower levels. But to try to find three or four of those gems in the same draft is not a very solid strategy because, as your list has shown, there just isn't as much talent there and the odds of hitting are severely minimized. Think of it like the roulette wheel. Betting a color is like picking from FBS. Splitting your bet is like picking from FCS. Betting a straight up number is picking from DII or below.

 

BTW - I'd argue the reason you see more lower level scouting is because the NFL has become a multi-billion dollar industry and they have the resources to scout there. In the past they didn't.

 

You beat me to it but totally agree. I would add that in some of the 'lower level' D1 FBS schools, like University of Buffalo (Khalil Mack and others) they at least competed with the better/well known D1 schools thus allowing them to be evaluated at that level. (More on scouting in just a minute).

 

As you pointed out about D2 and lower tier D1 schools, I would concur that there is no question talent can be found there. But once you mortgage away a number of you lower level picks for a relative unknown in Trubisky and then use the remainder of the picks you have left on other unknowns hoping they'll pan out, that's risky. Ballsy yes but foolhardy (IMHO) if you have a team full of needs and are not yet established of where you're going.

 

In regards to scouting; we all know that is where Pace cut his teeth (I might add that so too did Emery). Anyhow, like you said with all the money that is spent in the NFL I'm sure there is a pretty good budget with scouting. With Pace I have no doubt he invests some of that money into his scouting. But when he chooses his scouts for their assignments (or however they do that) you think he spends all his resources on the talent at the D2 schools or in the more competitive market? His draft would tell us that he bucks conventional wisdom. Again, we won't know how it'll pan out until after a few years. You just have to ask yourself; how much more damage or improvement could happen in that time? And another question to ponder, if it doesn't pan out after this season then we potentially lose a pretty respectable coach in Fox as opposed to the lesser known Pace.

 

When I consider Pace's strategy this year, I can't help but think of Da' Coach when he bet it all on Ricky Williams. Thankfully for Ditka, he had a HOF career to fall back on.

 

 

 

[madlithuanian]

 

Life's too short to be so pessimistic!

 

But you're an eternal optimist so I'll lose every time with you. lol!!

 

[Lucky Luciano]

The one you linked wasn't mine. It was Walter's. And I disagreed with where Shaheen was mocked. Just like I disagree with where he was picked by the Bears. But if you agree with Walter's mock about where Shaheen was ranked, then surely you agree with their evaluation of the Bears' draft as being one of the worst of all time. The same can be applied to just about any of those sites. They may have ranked Shaheen highly, but they're all ripping the Bears' draft. That's what I said in the original comment to which you replied. One risky pick, sure. An entire draft of risky picks, no thanks.

 

ok let's get to the meat of this.... what do YOU use to evaluate the talent coming into the draft? *have you personally scouted every player in the top 100 going into the draft? have you WATCHED every player drafted play out their regular season games for their entire career? is EVERY player you want the bears to draft someone you personally have interviewed, watched at the combine, talked to their coaching staffs, seen every game they played in, watched FILM of every game they played in or just WHAT??

 

i will flat out tell you, i don't watch college ball anymore. the freaking BCS and BIG TEN destroyed it. i HAVE to rely on what i read, hear or snippets or blurbs from various sources. how about YOU?

 

if you haven't used the sources listed *above do you have some sixth sense that you can look at a player or what school he went to that determines whether he is worthy to be drafted and at what position in the draft?? are you really marty mcfly and own a delorean time machine?

 

The list you provided is hilarious. You had to reach back to Shannon Sharpe and Roberto Garza? And you included a guy named "Snacks?" More telling is the fact that on that list, the Bears are heavily represented. Maybe coincidentally, the Bears have sucked for the majority of the past two decades.

 

seriously? this is the nonsense you are making your judgement on? sorry but the players are NOT ancient history. i didn't bother going back very far. so... TWO of those players are currently playing in chicago. now you are saying this is one of the reasons we SUCK?? should we cut them? what exactly was your feelings about freeman at the linebacker slot when we acquired him? i don't recall you whining about what school he went to or where he was initially drafted.

 

a "guy named snacks" huh? is it you are just too lazy to look yourself or are you hoping nobody else does? HERE is your "guy named snacks" reach:

 

"In the wake of the 2017 NFL Draft, it’s only fitting the once-upon-a-time undrafted defensive tackle from William Penn University was just voted one of the best players in the league.

 

For the seventh consecutive year, current players filled out ballots to determine the top 100 players in the NFL, and Harrison made his debut on the list after his first season with the Giants and fifth overall. He came in at No. 96, one spot ahead of Steelers guard David DeCastro.

 

http://www.giants.com/news-and-blogs/artic...1a-213dde95d800

 

look up the names on that list yourself and THEN come back to tell me how silly and distant that "reach" was.

 

Nobody is saying there aren't gems at lower levels. But to try to find three or four of those gems in the same draft is not a very solid strategy because, as your list has shown, there just isn't as much talent there and the odds of hitting are severely minimized. Think of it like the roulette wheel. Betting a color is like picking from FBS. Splitting your bet is like picking from FCS. Betting a straight up number is picking from DII or below.

 

well let's see.... we picked ONE player in the first THREE ROUNDS of the draft from a division 2 school. yea, that's pretty excessive. tell me exactly what rounds YOU would pick one or not.

 

as i STATED before... from the FOURTH ROUND DOWN you draft players who are projects, who have POTENTIAL, are injured and slipped or are projected as good special team players who fill a NEED. the percentage of players who don't even make it out of training camp are the greatest at this level of the draft. HERE is where you roll the dice.

 

just for the record, you think COHEN would be a GREAT compliment to howard but you wouldn't draft him prior to the 7th round, correct? how does THAT make any sense?

 

if you want a big reach then look back when we drafted hester in the 2nd round. it was too high a pick for him but at the 4th or below it would have been a steal.

 

BTW - I'd argue the reason you see more lower level scouting is because the NFL has become a multi-billion dollar industry and they have the resources to scout there. In the past they didn't.

 

puleaaase... you obviously have no clue about the history of the NFL. the NFL has been rolling in money since the 1960's!!!!!!!! it was a HUGE business by the time the superbowl rolled around and hit stride by the 1970's.

 

the draft POST 1991 was the beginning of the 7 round draft. prior to that it was 12 rounds starting in 1977. prior to that it was 17 rounds PLUS. now why do you think that is huh? any idea? if not ask me and i'll clue you in.

[madlithuanian]

Let's not

 

The Ricky trade more closely resembled what the Vikings gave up for H. Walker back in the day. What Pace gave up to move up pales by comparison...

 

 

 

 

 

When I consider Pace's strategy this year, I can't help but think of Da' Coach when he bet it all on Ricky Williams. Thankfully for Ditka, he had a HOF career to fall back on.

 

 

[Stinger226]

One other big difference; Davis played for an FBS in Michigan State whereas Shaheen did not.

So you didnt like Peanut Tillman when we drafted him because he wasnt from a FBS school? the point is about identifying talent not where they came from.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

So you didnt like Peanut Tillman when we drafted him because he wasnt from a FBS school? the point is about identifying talent not where they came from.

 

No, that would be your point; which is minimizing what I have said. My concern (or point) is that Pace invested 3 other picks for a relative unknown in Trubisky. Thus depleting our chance at more players who could potentially contribute to the team. Then he followed that with four more picks of questionable nature. One of those, Jackson, although a member of the venerable Crimson Tide defense, has a concerning injury history. And all this on the heels of drafting a player two years ago in the 1st round, White, who has yet to contribute to the team due to his own injury issues. The other three draft picks were from second tier schools whose competition is a notch or two above High School in most cases. Again, had he decided to pick one perhaps two players from D2; I might not have been as quite flabbergasted. But with all else I have said paired with the other questionable moves? This reeks of Emery and his smuggy approach to drafting and how he thought he was so much smarter than everyone else.

 

Now did I like Tillman? Absolutely. What did I think of him coming out of college? Probably didn't give it much thought. How many other players were drafted that year and of those, how many were from D2 schools?

[Stinger226]

No, that would be your point; which is minimizing what I have said. My concern (or point) is that Pace invested 3 other picks for a relative unknown in Trubisky. Thus depleting our chance at more players who could potentially contribute to the team. Then he followed that with four more picks of questionable nature. One of those, Jackson, although a member of the venerable Crimson Tide defense, has a concerning injury history. And all this on the heels of drafting a player two years ago in the 1st round, White, who has yet to contribute to the team due to his own injury issues. The other three draft picks were from second tier schools whose competition is a notch or two above High School in most cases. Again, had he decided to pick one perhaps two players from D2; I might not have been as quite flabbergasted. But with all else I have said paired with the other questionable moves? This reeks of Emery and his smuggy approach to drafting and how he thought he was so much smarter than everyone else.

 

Now did I like Tillman? Absolutely. What did I think of him coming out of college? Probably didn't give it much thought. How many other players were drafted that year and of those, how many were from D2 schools?

 

 

Smaller schools are riskier, I agree with that, but it is about discovering talent.

 

so go through the draft and list who you would have taken with our picks and in two years we can revisit and see how smart you are.

 

The truth is , you can not judge this draft today,it will take 2 to 3 years to know that answer.

 

[jason]

ok let's get to the meat of this.... what do YOU use to evaluate the talent coming into the draft? *have you personally scouted every player in the top 100 going into the draft? have you WATCHED every player drafted play out their regular season games for their entire career? is EVERY player you want the bears to draft someone you personally have interviewed, watched at the combine, talked to their coaching staffs, seen every game they played in, watched FILM of every game they played in or just WHAT??

 

i will flat out tell you, i don't watch college ball anymore. the freaking BCS and BIG TEN destroyed it. i HAVE to rely on what i read, hear or snippets or blurbs from various sources. how about YOU?

 

if you haven't used the sources listed *above do you have some sixth sense that you can look at a player or what school he went to that determines whether he is worthy to be drafted and at what position in the draft?? are you really marty mcfly and own a delorean time machine?

 

seriously? this is the nonsense you are making your judgement on? sorry but the players are NOT ancient history. i didn't bother going back very far. so... TWO of those players are currently playing in chicago. now you are saying this is one of the reasons we SUCK?? should we cut them? what exactly was your feelings about freeman at the linebacker slot when we acquired him? i don't recall you whining about what school he went to or where he was initially drafted.

 

a "guy named snacks" huh? is it you are just too lazy to look yourself or are you hoping nobody else does? HERE is your "guy named snacks" reach:

 

"In the wake of the 2017 NFL Draft, it’s only fitting the once-upon-a-time undrafted defensive tackle from William Penn University was just voted one of the best players in the league.

 

For the seventh consecutive year, current players filled out ballots to determine the top 100 players in the NFL, and Harrison made his debut on the list after his first season with the Giants and fifth overall. He came in at No. 96, one spot ahead of Steelers guard David DeCastro.

 

http://www.giants.com/news-and-blogs/artic...1a-213dde95d800

 

look up the names on that list yourself and THEN come back to tell me how silly and distant that "reach" was.

 

well let's see.... we picked ONE player in the first THREE ROUNDS of the draft from a division 2 school. yea, that's pretty excessive. tell me exactly what rounds YOU would pick one or not.

 

as i STATED before... from the FOURTH ROUND DOWN you draft players who are projects, who have POTENTIAL, are injured and slipped or are projected as good special team players who fill a NEED. the percentage of players who don't even make it out of training camp are the greatest at this level of the draft. HERE is where you roll the dice.

 

just for the record, you think COHEN would be a GREAT compliment to howard but you wouldn't draft him prior to the 7th round, correct? how does THAT make any sense?

 

if you want a big reach then look back when we drafted hester in the 2nd round. it was too high a pick for him but at the 4th or below it would have been a steal.

 

puleaaase... you obviously have no clue about the history of the NFL. the NFL has been rolling in money since the 1960's!!!!!!!! it was a HUGE business by the time the superbowl rolled around and hit stride by the 1970's.

 

the draft POST 1991 was the beginning of the 7 round draft. prior to that it was 12 rounds starting in 1977. prior to that it was 17 rounds PLUS. now why do you think that is huh? any idea? if not ask me and i'll clue you in.

 

Short and sweet:

-I officiate and watch enough college football that my wife hates me during college football season. I devote enough time to it that I send my family away on vacation for two months every year. I'm sure that's more than the great majority who doesn't do it for a living. And, yes, I'm dead serious about that. No, I don't have access to the treasure trove that NFL scouting departments have, but all those scouting departments differ from one another. Otherwise there would be a near consensus on the rankings.

 

-Regarding the lower level guys, the fact that you had to include two guys who are retired, and more than one who is a scrub, shows how little talent matriculates from the lower levels to the NFL. Is it possible? Yes. I never said it wasn't. Is it as likely as finding talent at the FBS level? Unequivocally no. And, yes, I'm saying that maybe the fact the Bears have sucked for quite some time might have some relation to the fact the Bears have more players on your list that average.

 

-I'm obviously not opposed to finding lower level talent. I thought Hall was a well-placed pick last year. But there is a reason Pace was highly touted last year and is getting ripped this year.

 

-Cohen is a great compliment to Howard because his skill-set is different. Do you know what the word compliment in this regard means? Where he is drafted is inconsequential to that statement.

 

-I'm glad you think you know the history of why the scouting departments have changed over the years, but I'll stick with money being the main cause. Teams got more sophisticated scouting, put more emphasis on it, added more bodies to scout regionally, were able to gather more video, and generally built more robust scouting departments so they could glean information from more and more data.

[lemonej]

So you didnt like Peanut Tillman when we drafted him because he wasnt from a FBS school? the point is about identifying talent not where they came from.

 

The same guy that drafted Peanut Tillman drafted Roosevelt Williams also.

[Stinger226]

Short and sweet:

-I officiate and watch enough college football that my wife hates me during college football season. I devote enough time to it that I send my family away on vacation for two months every year. I'm sure that's more than the great majority who doesn't do it for a living. And, yes, I'm dead serious about that. No, I don't have access to the treasure trove that NFL scouting departments have, but all those scouting departments differ from one another. Otherwise there would be a near consensus on the rankings.

 

-Regarding the lower level guys, the fact that you had to include two guys who are retired, and more than one who is a scrub, shows how little talent matriculates from the lower levels to the NFL. Is it possible? Yes. I never said it wasn't. Is it as likely as finding talent at the FBS level? Unequivocally no. And, yes, I'm saying that maybe the fact the Bears have sucked for quite some time might have some relation to the fact the Bears have more players on your list that average.

 

-I'm obviously not opposed to finding lower level talent. I thought Hall was a well-placed pick last year. But there is a reason Pace was highly touted last year and is getting ripped this year.

 

-Cohen is a great compliment to Howard because his skill-set is different. Do you know what the word compliment in this regard means? Where he is drafted is inconsequential to that statement.

 

-I'm glad you think you know the history of why the scouting departments have changed over the years, but I'll stick with money being the main cause. Teams got more sophisticated scouting, put more emphasis on it, added more bodies to scout regionally, were able to gather more video, and generally built more robust scouting departments so they could glean information from more and more data.

I think Pace gets Cudos for last year is because we can look back and feel good about Floyd, Whitehair, Kwiat and Howard. This year has not happened yet, so it is easy to praise or condemn. One year from now, we will see how it looks, and with Tribusky as the main guy, it may be two years.

 

[Stinger226]

The same guy that drafted Peanut Tillman drafted Roosevelt Williams also.

The best drafters in the NFL has just as many misses as hits, the difference is they get enough to build a winner. Remember the smartest guy in the league signed SMC last year, how did that turn out.

[lemonej]

The best drafters in the NFL has just as many misses as hits, the difference is they get enough to build a winner. Remember the smartest guy in the league signed SMC last year, how did that turn out.

 

It turned out that he helped SMC do something that caused the league to legislate a rule to be changed on Field Goal attempts.

[Lucky Luciano]

Short and sweet:

-I officiate and watch enough college football that my wife hates me during college football season. I devote enough time to it that I send my family away on vacation for two months every year. I'm sure that's more than the great majority who doesn't do it for a living. And, yes, I'm dead serious about that. No, I don't have access to the treasure trove that NFL scouting departments have, but all those scouting departments differ from one another. Otherwise there would be a near consensus on the rankings.

 

it's a great narrative but in the end you avoided most of the questions nicely.

 

you say you DON'T have access to the information from pro scouting departments (even if they differ from one another - LOL). i assume you haven't watched every game of every player in the draft or talked to ANY coaches or experts.

 

so i ask AGAIN... how do YOU make your decisions about players in the draft in regards to who and where they are slotted in the NFL draft?

 

-Regarding the lower level guys, the fact that you had to include two guys who are retired, and more than one who is a scrub, shows how little talent matriculates from the lower levels to the NFL. Is it possible? Yes. I never said it wasn't. Is it as likely as finding talent at the FBS level? Unequivocally no. And, yes, I'm saying that maybe the fact the Bears have sucked for quite some time might have some relation to the fact the Bears have more players on your list that average.

 

some more red herring's. i understand the relationship between the talent of D1 and D2. i have stated it, you have stated it, the world has stated it. so what?

 

if it's "possible" then why are you crying about drafting a D2 TE in round 2 if you know virtually nothing about him (i assume HE wasn't one of the players you watched play every game or officiated every game for)? you want to condemn my evaluation of him by reading analysis by the pundits. well where then did YOUR evaluation come from? some devine intervention?

 

you know, maybe this TE WILL suck. i certainly don't know one way or the other. but... i am willing to give our scouts and GM who have done a pretty dam good job so far during paces tenure in chicago the benefit of the doubt until it proves otherwise.

 

to discount this regime's decisions because the bears football operations have sucked in the past is beyond the pale. it's flat out stupid to believe we will "suck" in the future because we have sucked in the past when significant changes were made.

 

next:

i put in some guys for example to show that it does happen and give anyone who cares some background on the type of players that can be found in lower tiers of collegiate sports. is that some affront to your sensibilities? obviously.

 

-I'm obviously not opposed to finding lower level talent. I thought Hall was a well-placed pick last year. But there is a reason Pace was highly touted last year and is getting ripped this year.

 

i have to say i was hoping he would pick a QB and watson seemed like the guy to me ONLY becuse he had the history of playing in and winning big games. i never watched any of them play.

 

after reading up on trubisky i like the pick and feel he has the best chance to become a good plus QB when the dust settles. does trading away some 3rd round picks and a 4th bother me if we get a franchise qb for the next 12 years? not in the LEAST.

 

so... in my opinion he is getting 'ripped' because he traded some picks, moved up and picked trubisky. i think it was a great move whether trubisky pans out or not and the pundits and talking heads can stick it where the sun don't shine. if he DOES turn out to be a franchise qb they will conveniently forget about it and our draft looks like a genius move.

 

-Cohen is a great compliment to Howard because his skill-set is different. Do you know what the word compliment in this regard means? Where he is drafted is inconsequential to that statement.

 

hmmm... do you know what condescending means?

 

ok let's look at it. we drafted in the fourth round - not the third, not the second, not the first, but the FOURTH round a player who in your words 'compliments' our starting running back.

 

i can only assume this guy comes in as a change of pace back this season. a guy who can catch well and can bring it to the house with elusive moves even as a back. i personally ALSO look at this guy as our new punt returner. maybe someone in the hester mode?

 

so for a FOURTH round pick this is a pretty large hole filled in our roster if it works out. if it doesn't? we used a fourth round pick for a shot at a player who fills two needs on this team. a roll of the dice.

 

-I'm glad you think you know the history of why the scouting departments have changed over the years, but I'll stick with money being the main cause. Teams got more sophisticated scouting, put more emphasis on it, added more bodies to scout regionally, were able to gather more video, and generally built more robust scouting departments so they could glean information from more and more data.

 

whatever

[Mongo3451]

In the long run, I believe Pace followed his draft plan. It may have been dumb luck that got us the DII guys, as they fell into their slotted position. In no way, do I believe that they went into the draft thinking they were going to shock the world with DII picks.

[Stinger226]

In the long run, I believe Pace followed his draft plan. It may have been dumb luck that got us the DII guys, as they fell into their slotted position. In no way, do I believe that they went into the draft thinking they were going to shock the world with DII picks.

I agree

[Stinger226]

it's a great narrative but in the end you avoided most of the questions nicely.

 

you say you DON'T have access to the information from pro scouting departments (even if they differ from one another - LOL). i assume you haven't watched every game of every player in the draft or talked to ANY coaches or experts.

 

so i ask AGAIN... how do YOU make your decisions about players in the draft in regards to who and where they are slotted in the NFL draft?

 

 

 

some more red herring's. i understand the relationship between the talent of D1 and D2. i have stated it, you have stated it, the world has stated it. so what?

 

if it's "possible" then why are you crying about drafting a D2 TE in round 2 if you know virtually nothing about him (i assume HE wasn't one of the players you watched play every game or officiated every game for)? you want to condemn my evaluation of him by reading analysis by the pundits. well where then did YOUR evaluation come from? some devine intervention?

 

you know, maybe this TE WILL suck. i certainly don't know one way or the other. but... i am willing to give our scouts and GM who have done a pretty dam good job so far during paces tenure in chicago the benefit of the doubt until it proves otherwise.

 

to discount this regime's decisions because the bears football operations have sucked in the past is beyond the pale. it's flat out stupid to believe we will "suck" in the future because we have sucked in the past when significant changes were made.

 

next:

i put in some guys for example to show that it does happen and give anyone who cares some background on the type of players that can be found in lower tiers of collegiate sports. is that some affront to your sensibilities? obviously.

 

 

 

i have to say i was hoping he would pick a QB and watson seemed like the guy to me ONLY becuse he had the history of playing in and winning big games. i never watched any of them play.

 

after reading up on trubisky i like the pick and feel he has the best chance to become a good plus QB when the dust settles. does trading away some 3rd round picks and a 4th bother me if we get a franchise qb for the next 12 years? not in the LEAST.

 

so... in my opinion he is getting 'ripped' because he traded some picks, moved up and picked trubisky. i think it was a great move whether trubisky pans out or not and the pundits and talking heads can stick it where the sun don't shine. if he DOES turn out to be a franchise qb they will conveniently forget about it and our draft looks like a genius move.

 

 

 

hmmm... do you know what condescending means?

 

ok let's look at it. we drafted in the fourth round - not the third, not the second, not the first, but the FOURTH round a player who in your words 'compliments' our starting running back.

 

i can only assume this guy comes in as a change of pace back this season. a guy who can catch well and can bring it to the house with elusive moves even as a back. i personally ALSO look at this guy as our new punt returner. maybe someone in the hester mode?

 

so for a FOURTH round pick this is a pretty large hole filled in our roster if it works out. if it doesn't? we used a fourth round pick for a shot at a player who fills two needs on this team. a roll of the dice.

 

 

 

whatever

I hated the draft at first but the more I looked into it the more I understand the moves Pace made. Tribusky took 50 less snaps than Carson Wentz did in his career but did not start as many games and I do not remember Philly getting beat up for that or the fact he is from a D II school.

 

I look at Shaheen as a Jason Witten type, reliable target and red zone target. He is physically compares to Gronk, but saying he would be that player is stupid.

 

I think Cohen gives us something we dont have a home run player in a Tryeek Hill type . Electric and will get 8 to 10 touches, not only as a RB but as a slot WR.

 

I can see where people view this to risky of a draft but we wont know how it all plays out for 2 years.

 

[Lucky Luciano]

I hated the draft at first but the more I looked into it the more I understand the moves Pace made. Tribusky took 50 less snaps than Carson Wentz did in his career but did not start as many games and I do not remember Philly getting beat up for that or the fact he is from a D II school.

 

I look at Shaheen as a Jason Witten type, reliable target and red zone target. He is physically compares to Gronk, but saying he would be that player is stupid.

 

I think Cohen gives us something we dont have a home run player in a Tryeek Hill type . Electric and will get 8 to 10 touches, not only as a RB but as a slot WR.

 

I can see where people view this to risky of a draft but we wont know how it all plays out for 2 years.

 

i believe north dakota state went from a division 2 school to a division 1 school in 2003. not sure why they are kicking division 2 colleges up a notch. maybe you or someone else can elaborate who follows college ball more closely.

[jason]

it's a great narrative but in the end you avoided most of the questions nicely.

 

you say you DON'T have access to the information from pro scouting departments (even if they differ from one another - LOL). i assume you haven't watched every game of every player in the draft or talked to ANY coaches or experts.

 

so i ask AGAIN... how do YOU make your decisions about players in the draft in regards to who and where they are slotted in the NFL draft?

 

some more red herring's. i understand the relationship between the talent of D1 and D2. i have stated it, you have stated it, the world has stated it. so what?

 

if it's "possible" then why are you crying about drafting a D2 TE in round 2 if you know virtually nothing about him (i assume HE wasn't one of the players you watched play every game or officiated every game for)? you want to condemn my evaluation of him by reading analysis by the pundits. well where then did YOUR evaluation come from? some devine intervention?

 

you know, maybe this TE WILL suck. i certainly don't know one way or the other. but... i am willing to give our scouts and GM who have done a pretty dam good job so far during paces tenure in chicago the benefit of the doubt until it proves otherwise.

 

to discount this regime's decisions because the bears football operations have sucked in the past is beyond the pale. it's flat out stupid to believe we will "suck" in the future because we have sucked in the past when significant changes were made.

 

next:

i put in some guys for example to show that it does happen and give anyone who cares some background on the type of players that can be found in lower tiers of collegiate sports. is that some affront to your sensibilities? obviously.

 

 

 

i have to say i was hoping he would pick a QB and watson seemed like the guy to me ONLY becuse he had the history of playing in and winning big games. i never watched any of them play.

 

after reading up on trubisky i like the pick and feel he has the best chance to become a good plus QB when the dust settles. does trading away some 3rd round picks and a 4th bother me if we get a franchise qb for the next 12 years? not in the LEAST.

 

so... in my opinion he is getting 'ripped' because he traded some picks, moved up and picked trubisky. i think it was a great move whether trubisky pans out or not and the pundits and talking heads can stick it where the sun don't shine. if he DOES turn out to be a franchise qb they will conveniently forget about it and our draft looks like a genius move.

 

hmmm... do you know what condescending means?

 

ok let's look at it. we drafted in the fourth round - not the third, not the second, not the first, but the FOURTH round a player who in your words 'compliments' our starting running back.

 

i can only assume this guy comes in as a change of pace back this season. a guy who can catch well and can bring it to the house with elusive moves even as a back. i personally ALSO look at this guy as our new punt returner. maybe someone in the hester mode?

 

so for a FOURTH round pick this is a pretty large hole filled in our roster if it works out. if it doesn't? we used a fourth round pick for a shot at a player who fills two needs on this team. a roll of the dice.

 

whatever

 

Bottom Line Up Front:

 

The Bears haven't taken a lot of flack because of the uncertainty. The Bears have taken a lot of flack because they went completely against conventional wisdom and took an entire draft full of risks.

 

Reading is fundamental.

[jason]

In the long run, I believe Pace followed his draft plan. It may have been dumb luck that got us the DII guys, as they fell into their slotted position. In no way, do I believe that they went into the draft thinking they were going to shock the world with DII picks.

 

I agree that could have been a very large part of it. There is no way any GM who wants to keep his job would go into things with an idea to go DII or something similar over and over. That's career suicide. I have to believe, however, that in the vast spreadsheet they have ranking the countless players, there is a column that says "risk." And next to each of the players there better have been a note. Notes that have been agreed upon by nearly all.

 

Make no mistake, Pace could have drafted safer. I don't like his draft, but I respect him for attempting to shoot the moon. It takes guts to go with an entire draft full of question marks when he could have more easily went with widely regarded safe plays. If he had started with Jamal Adams, he likely would not be receiving the flack he currently is.

[Lucky Luciano]

Bottom Line Up Front:

 

The Bears haven't taken a lot of flack because of the uncertainty. The Bears have taken a lot of flack because they went completely against conventional wisdom and took an entire draft full of risks.

 

Reading is fundamental.

 

so is the ability to rationalize what you write.

 

in regards to your statement: ACCORDING TO WHO? you?

 

if this staff of football operations people had these as the best players on the board that were AVAILABLE at the time they picked how is it that you know more than they do?

 

you won't even disclose where you get your sources of information from. is it from something you saw, read, analyzed, a gut feeling, a fortune teller, a fortune cookie, transmissions from deep space?

 

explain it in great detail... the world is waiting with abated breath.

 

[madlithuanian]

Hate to tell you...every pick is a risk... Granted, some more than others. But, it's all a gamble. Some just have better or worse odds of paying out.

 

But...

 

 

 

I have to believe, however, that in the vast spreadsheet they have ranking the countless players, there is a column that says "risk."

 

[Stinger226]

so is the ability to rationalize what you write.

 

in regards to your statement: ACCORDING TO WHO? you?

 

if this staff of football operations people had these as the best players on the board that were AVAILABLE at the time they picked how is it that you know more than they do?

 

you won't even disclose where you get your sources of information from. is it from something you saw, read, analyzed, a gut feeling, a fortune teller, a fortune cookie, transmissions from deep space?

 

explain it in great detail... the world is waiting with abated breath.

you have a good sense of humor, Jason is vastly opinionated and sometimes I agree with him and sometimes I dont. None of our opinions really matter, it will play out to be a good draft or maybe not. Pace's other two drafts were less risky, but for me its about identifying talent and I think he can. I think the key to this draft is we dont figure in the scenario is the fact the Regime think we are closer to winning than the record indicated last year. If we were 8-8 and he took this risks, we would say he is going for the brass ring, but being in the third year of a rebuild, it looks bad to take this many risks.

 

Being am optimistic Bear fan, I look at this and say if they turn out to be what he thought he drafted, then I am happy. If they dont then I can bad mouth him for his choices but standing here today looking at this, I choose the glass half full.