madlithuanian Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Bears have claimed K Robert Aguayo off of waiver from TB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixote Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Bears have claimed K Robert Aguayo off of waiver from TB Why? They cut him, a 2nd round pick, because he sucked. What good is he? We just cut a UDFA Kicker I actually liked the looks of so they were obviously happy with status quo. I am not fond of Connor Barth either so I am not against replacing him but I sure as hell want to see an improvement in the position and not a regression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Why? They cut him, a 2nd round pick, because he sucked. What good is he? We just cut a UDFA Kicker I actually liked the looks of so they were obviously happy with status quo. I am not fond of Connor Barth either so I am not against replacing him but I sure as hell want to see an improvement in the position and not a regression. Why? Because Aguayo has a ton of potential. Barth does not. Aguayo was one of the best college kickers ever, and something odd happened between graduation and Tampa Bay. He's probably better than Narth even without much improvement. If he taps into his potential, however, then he's unquestionably better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 In the NFL no one carries a backup kicker on the roster. All the special teams coaches and GMs keep lists of who the next kicker up would be. They all know a few of the top free agents. Getting a chance to work with this guy, to have familiarity just adds him to our list of possibles at the very least. It's also training camp time and putting pressure on your kicker is always a good idea. I'm assuming we aren't paying this guy much, so it's hard to see the downside. And if he turns out to be amazing, then hey, that's a plus too. But my point is even if he doesnt this is STILL a smart move, even if not a very meaningful one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixote Posted August 13, 2017 Report Share Posted August 13, 2017 Why? Because Aguayo has a ton of potential. Barth does not. Aguayo was one of the best college kickers ever, and something odd happened between graduation and Tampa Bay. He's probably better than Narth even without much improvement. If he taps into his potential, however, then he's unquestionably better. Potential is great, we have had quite a few players over the past decade with great potential, unfortunately, most failed. The former Florida State Seminole has made just 71 percent of his field goal attempts (22 of 31), while Barth brings a career 84 percent success rate (157 of 187) to the table. Barth has to be scratching his head, LOL When Tampa drafted Aguayo in the 2nd round in 2016 it resulted in Tampa's kicker (Connor Barth) being released. Now he follows him to Chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 I believe Aguayo was the most accurate kicker in NCAA history. He missed only 9 kicks (zero XP) in three years at FSU (198/198 for XP and 69/78 for FG) which is crazy accurate. Then he goes to TB and misses 11 kicks total out of 65 kicks? There is no way you can fall off the cliff that fast. There has to be something else to it (holder, long snapper, shoes, injury, mental). To me, this is a zero risk move with some very high potential to improve our kicking game. Also consider kickoffs, even with how bad Aguayo has been on FGs, he still had a better touchback percentage than Barth last year by a mile (65% to 40%), so that is something else to consider. OT: Jason, please check pinned FFB thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killakrzydav Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 He was pretty much automatic in college. I think it's a completely mental thing with him. Most here wanted hom in the third or fourth round a few years back. I like the look see signing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 I see no risk in taking a chance on a new kicker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 "To me, this is a zero risk move with some very high potential to improve our kicking game. Also consider kickoffs, even with how bad Aguayo has been on FGs, he still had a better touchback percentage than Barth last year by a mile (65% to 40%), so that is something else to consider." This 100%. There is no risk. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 1 small problem. We took on his Contract and Tampa is completely off the hook. $429k gtd. Granted it's not much more than minimum. But fully guaranteed. That's the odd part. Why would we bring him in on a guaranteed contract. The rest of it I get and I agree with the move overall. It's just the contract that has me scratching my head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 Why? Because Aguayo has a ton of potential. Barth does not. Aguayo was one of the best college kickers ever, and something odd happened between graduation and Tampa Bay. He's probably better than Narth even without much improvement. If he taps into his potential, however, then he's unquestionably better. His potential is better then Barth's. He isn't better then Barth now, but it would be good to see if we can somehow fix him. He has a lot of talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 His potential is better then Barth's. He isn't better then Barth now, but it would be good to see if we can somehow fix him. He has a lot of talent. Absolutely. I've got no questions there. Like someone else pointed out no team carries a 2nd kicker. So there's the question. We all agree he isn't better right now but has more potential. But we picked up his contract from Tampa which is fully guaranteed. Which tells me the front office must think he can play better right now better than Barth. Otherwise why would you pick up his contract if you're not positive he can play right now better than Barth. My only question comes down to the contact bring guaranteed. That's the head scratcher. Typically you don't do that move unless you think he can play right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 Looks like we'll owe Aguayo $428k if we cut him and nobody else takes him off waivers, or signs him. That's quite likely if a second NFL team cuts him before the season starts. This is not the cheap way of doing business and not much different than all the veteran FA WRs Pace brought in. He's likely to lose some guaranteed money among one of those deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 Looks like we'll owe Aguayo $428k if we cut him and nobody else takes him off waivers, or signs him. That's quite likely if a second NFL team cuts him before the season starts. This is not the cheap way of doing business and not much different than all the veteran FA WRs Pace brought in. He's likely to lose some guaranteed money among one of those deals. Thank you. Exactly my point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 We are now worrying about less than 500k with over 20mil in cap space when we are still technically under the floor? Teams have to spend over 89% of the cap over a three year period, so to keep things easier to manage, you probably don't want to drop too much under the floor in any given year since you can't go over. With that said, the Bears are about $1,820,000 from the floor AFTER Aguayo, so no issue here. I have more of an issue with $2mil in dead money for Cutler, or 600k for Gould. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 His potential is better then Barth's. He isn't better then Barth now, but it would be good to see if we can somehow fix him. He has a lot of talent. It's debatable whether or not he's better than Barth now. Barth was near the bottom of the league in FG%, and was horrible on kickoffs. Downgrading on FG% and upgrading on kickoffs is not a bad thing. And Aguayo missed most of his kicks over 40 yards. Barth missed a variety from multiple distances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 It's debatable whether or not he's better than Barth now. Barth was near the bottom of the league in FG%, and was horrible on kickoffs. Downgrading on FG% and upgrading on kickoffs is not a bad thing. And Aguayo missed most of his kicks over 40 yards. Barth missed a variety from multiple distances. I don't really think it is. Aguayo was quite a bit less accurate and his longest kick in the NFL is from 43 yards. He might have more distance on kick-offs, but Aguayo's on field production has been deplorable. He does have potential, so like I said, its more of a bet on the long. Barth is what he is (a relatively crappy kicker with minimal upside). Aggy is the worse kicker in the league with considerable upside. If we thought we could win this year, I'd take Barth over Aggy any day of the week. If you want to bet on long-term potential and take a shot a few years down the road (and run the risk of some near-term losses because of it), then that is fine. And maybe a change of scenery gets him back quicker then we thought. A couple quotes from personnel people were pretty negative on Aggy. Essentially said he has zero repeatability in his kicking form, etc, which would imply this is going to be a project (and that it might be more then just a mental block). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowlingtwig Posted August 14, 2017 Report Share Posted August 14, 2017 I don't really think it is. Aguayo was quite a bit less accurate and his longest kick in the NFL is from 43 yards. He might have more distance on kick-offs, but Aguayo's on field production has been deplorable. He does have potential, so like I said, its more of a bet on the long. Barth is what he is (a relatively crappy kicker with minimal upside). Aggy is the worse kicker in the league with considerable upside. If we thought we could win this year, I'd take Barth over Aggy any day of the week. If you want to bet on long-term potential and take a shot a few years down the road (and run the risk of some near-term losses because of it), then that is fine. And maybe a change of scenery gets him back quicker then we thought. A couple quotes from personnel people were pretty negative on Aggy. Essentially said he has zero repeatability in his kicking form, etc, which would imply this is going to be a project (and that it might be more then just a mental block). Yeah I read the same thing about his mechanics and that's pretty damning. Saw that several teams were interested in him but none pulled the settings because of the guarantee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted August 15, 2017 Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 I don't really think it is. Aguayo was quite a bit less accurate and his longest kick in the NFL is from 43 yards. He might have more distance on kick-offs, but Aguayo's on field production has been deplorable. He does have potential, so like I said, its more of a bet on the long. Barth is what he is (a relatively crappy kicker with minimal upside). Aggy is the worse kicker in the league with considerable upside. If we thought we could win this year, I'd take Barth over Aggy any day of the week. If you want to bet on long-term potential and take a shot a few years down the road (and run the risk of some near-term losses because of it), then that is fine. And maybe a change of scenery gets him back quicker then we thought. A couple quotes from personnel people were pretty negative on Aggy. Essentially said he has zero repeatability in his kicking form, etc, which would imply this is going to be a project (and that it might be more then just a mental block). Barth: 18/23 (78.3%) total, 14/16 (87.5%) less than 40yds, 4/7 (57.1%) more than 40yds, TBs (40%) Aguayo: 22/31 (71%) total, 18/20 (90%) less than 40yds, 4/11 (36.3%) more than 40yds, TBs (64.2%) Overall FG%: Barth Close FG%: Aguayo Far FG%: Barth Touchbacks: Aguayo Make no mistake, everything above turns into points. Either for the Bears or for the other team. I'd argue the TB % difference more significant than the long FG% difference. Furthermore, if Barth attempted 4 more long FGs, percentages say he only makes 1 or 2 more. Here's another tidbit, dude was incredibly unlucky last year. He had three different FGs hit the upright (Eagles, Panthers, and Bengals). He also had a 48yd FG blocked by an edge rusher, which isn't his fault. I agree about his mechanics though. His approach seems inconsistent with the length and speed of the steps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan2000 Posted August 15, 2017 Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 I see it as nothing more than bringing in someone to compete. If he out performs Barth you keep him, if he doesn't you cut him. I don't mind them kicking the tires on a player who has some potential. We won't have 2 kickers on the 53 so it's just a competition thing at this point. He hasn't lived up to his potential in the NFL yet and may not be on the team long. Barth isn't a long term solution Aguayo is a tryout. We'll likely have to invest a pick at some point on a long term kicker like we had in Gould Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted August 15, 2017 Report Share Posted August 15, 2017 A couple quotes from personnel people were pretty negative on Aggy. Essentially said he has zero repeatability in his kicking form, etc, which would imply this is going to be a project (and that it might be more then just a mental block). Depends on your point of view. If the issue is correcting mechanics then it can be a relatively easy fix if you get him with the right coach. That is as long as Aguayo is ready to be coached. I might be the only one who watched Robbie Gould shank kicks for the 49ers opening preseason game. I know there is still some sentimental support for him but the Bears made the right decision letting him go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemonej Posted August 19, 2017 Report Share Posted August 19, 2017 This is Fox's MO he launches kickers and I'm not surprised that Gould was cut and Barth is on the chopping block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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