Fox & Co are a given...is Pace?

[madlithuanian]

There is no way Fox and any of the coordinators are at minimum back next season. Hopefully, some get pink slips today...

 

However, the bigger question now is does Pace get to choose the next or should he be bounced too?

 

He's certainly made some hits and certainly some misses.

 

I've personally come to the conclusion that I don't care either way. If he stays, he's shown enough to get one last chance to get it right. If he goes, so be it. He's made enough mistakes to warrant it. That said, if Pace goes, I want Sweatty Teddy put back on the calculator and hire a real president of football operations. I want a full clean. Hire the right man to hire the right men. Stop this consultant crap. It's grade school checkers. Time to play chess.

 

 

[Mongo3451]

I'm still with Pace. New GM means total changeover of players...again.

[Connorbear]

I do not believe Pace hired Fox. I believe that Ernie Acorsi made that recommendation. I think Pace should be allowed to hire his own coach.

 

Peace

[BearFan PHX]

I do not believe Pace hired Fox. I believe that Ernie Acorsi made that recommendation. I think Pace should be allowed to hire his own coach.

 

Peace

 

+1

[Stinger226]

+1

Pace deserves some of the blame, its not all coaching and the injury issues.

The most important thing he will do is make a hire, and then he goes on the clock that Fox is on now.

I give him a c-, I understand the QB think this year, loading up on two, rolling the dice, the thing I didnt like was the moving one spot when he would have been there, loose balls.

The draft is a mixed bag, but next year will reveal itself.

The FAgency has had more fails than wins but it is not terrible.

 

So his hire this year will be the biggest thing since we drafted a potential future QB (this year)

It will either come together or fall apart, but at least he will own it, give him that.

[bowlingtwig]

I honestly think he's safe for now. While the misses he's had in FA are bad none of them will hamstring us. He does deserve the chance to hire his own coach

[DABEARSDABOMB]

If fire Pace, we might as well just call ourselves the Browns. We are already close enough to it given how many coaches we've went through in the last 5 years.

[bowlingtwig]

If fire Pace, we might as well just call ourselves the Browns. We are already close enough to it given how many coaches we've went through in the last 5 years.

Yup I agree. It's sad but I honestly don't think our job is that attractive any more. With the 3 coaches in 5 yrs. Haven't done anything in close to 10 yrs now. It's not like you can even look at any position outside of RB and say we are set

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Yup I agree. It's sad but I honestly don't think our job is that attractive any more. With the 3 coaches in 5 yrs. Haven't done anything in close to 10 yrs now. It's not like you can even look at any position outside of RB and say we are set

We are going to have a hard time finding someone when we get rid of Fox. Way too much instability in this organization and that is not attractive. There are going to be some openings where the head coach can bring in his own QB (vs. being fed Trubisky). It is going to be interesting to see what the market entails.

[bowlingtwig]

The giants just named Ernie accorsi a consultant to find there next gm/hc. Lol that went oh so good for us

[Alaskan Grizzly]

We are going to have a hard time finding someone when we get rid of Fox. Way too much instability in this organization and that is not attractive. There are going to be some openings where the head coach can bring in his own QB (vs. being fed Trubisky). It is going to be interesting to see what the market entails.

 

Agreed totally. To me it makes more sense to clean house (GM down), at this point, than it doesn't.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

There is no way Fox and any of the coordinators are at minimum back next season. Hopefully, some get pink slips today...

 

However, the bigger question now is does Pace get to choose the next or should he be bounced too?

 

He's certainly made some hits and certainly some misses.

 

I've personally come to the conclusion that I don't care either way. If he stays, he's shown enough to get one last chance to get it right. If he goes, so be it. He's made enough mistakes to warrant it. That said, if Pace goes, I want Sweatty Teddy put back on the calculator and hire a real president of football operations. I want a full clean. Hire the right man to hire the right men. Stop this consultant crap. It's grade school checkers. Time to play chess.

 

I know you won't want me to repeat this but I'm going to anyway. I still have a hard time placing blame on Fox for what we're looking at. He has been to two (COUNT THEM 2) Super Bowls with not ONE but TWO different teams in TWO different eras. Sure what he has done is just that, been done. I get your perspective but I think that simply an excuse to get rid of him because for whatever reason, you don't like him or his style. I don't buy that the NFL has changed that much that his effectiveness has worn out. If that were true then Bill Belichick and the "Patriot Way" as well as John Harbaugh and the "Raven Way" would be obsolete.

 

The unproven between Fox and Pace is clearly and unquestionably Pace. I almost hate for Fox's career to be sullied because of the situation he was put in to not be able to produce in Chicago. Is that completely Pace's fault? No. Part of the delay of Fox's ability to develop this team was due to the ridiculous (I'd say ludicrous) contract Cutler was given with which the Bears were not able to escape sooner. That delayed our team's development for sure by one year if not two. Many here thought with a new coaching staff and specifically a QB friendly OC, with the likes of Gase, Cutler would surely turn it around. He showed a glimmer of hope that one year with Gase but fell back to his old ways almost immediately once Gase was gone. Should and could Fox have sat Cutler's ass earlier than he did last year and had Hoyer or even Barkley play out last year? In retrospect; yes. But the very next question I would ask is whose idea was it to bring in Glennon for his own ridiculous contract (lf only for one year) only to draft a QB in the first round? Then not only that but, knowing our team had multiple holes to fill, squander present and future draft picks to get an unproven (and raw) QB talent like Trubisky. You think that was Fox's plan? I highly doubt it.

 

No. I blame a lot (if not all) of this mess on Pace. Like I said before Fox will undoubtedly be the fall guy for what I see as Pace's inexperience and ineptitude. Pace will 'pick his own coach' and more than likely like Emery will foul things up even more in the personnel management continuing our limp through a few more years' worth of less than mediocre performances. Like DBDB points out in his reply, he'll have a hard time convincing any coach worth their weight to come to our team to take it on knowing the dysfunction that awaits.

[ChileBear]

I know you won't want me to repeat this but I'm going to anyway. I still have a hard time placing blame on Fox for what we're looking at. He has been to two (COUNT THEM 2) Super Bowls with not ONE but TWO different teams in TWO different eras. Sure what he has done is just that, been done. I get your perspective but I think that simply an excuse to get rid of him because for whatever reason, you don't like him or his style. I don't buy that the NFL has changed that much that his effectiveness has worn out. If that were true then Bill Belichick and the "Patriot Way" as well as John Harbaugh and the "Raven Way" would be obsolete.

 

The unproven between Fox and Pace is clearly and unquestionably Pace. I almost hate for Fox's career to be sullied because of the situation he was put in to not be able to produce in Chicago. Is that completely Pace's fault? No. Part of the delay of Fox's ability to develop this team was due to the ridiculous (I'd say ludicrous) contract Cutler was given with which the Bears were not able to escape sooner. That delayed our team's development for sure by one year if not two. Many here thought with a new coaching staff and specifically a QB friendly OC, with the likes of Gase, Cutler would surely turn it around. He showed a glimmer of hope that one year with Gase but fell back to his old ways almost immediately once Gase was gone. Should and could Fox have sat Cutler's ass earlier than he did last year and had Hoyer or even Barkley play out last year? In retrospect; yes. But the very next question I would ask is whose idea was it to bring in Glennon for his own ridiculous contract (lf only for one year) only to draft a QB in the first round? Then not only that but, knowing our team had multiple holes to fill, squander present and future draft picks to get an unproven (and raw) QB talent like Trubisky. You think that was Fox's plan? I highly doubt it.

 

No. I blame a lot (if not all) of this mess on Pace. Like I said before Fox will undoubtedly be the fall guy for what I see as Pace's inexperience and ineptitude. Pace will 'pick his own coach' and more than likely like Emery will foul things up even more in the personnel management continuing our limp through a few more years' worth of less than mediocre performances. Like DBDB points out in his reply, he'll have a hard time convincing any coach worth their weight to come to our team to take it on knowing the dysfunction that awaits.

Grizzly, all I can say about your dubious post is LMAO, oh, that's not enough, LMAO, LMAO.

God Do you really want this crap to continue? The coaching staff is, like the majority of the team, esp D, going through the motions. They are all on "let's get this over, who cares, I'm getting paid" mode. THAT IS THE COACHES FAULT. It starts from the top, and Fox is not worthy of MY BEARS. Get him the F out, now, like the Giants just did.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Grizzly, all I can say about your dubious post is LMAO, oh, that's not enough, LMAO, LMAO.

God Do you really want this crap to continue? The coaching staff is, like the majority of the team, esp D, going through the motions. They are all on "let's get this over, who cares, I'm getting paid" mode. THAT IS THE COACHES FAULT. It starts from the top, and Fox is not worthy of MY BEARS. Get him the F out, now, like the Giants just did.

 

To some degree I agree with you. Im just not sure that ridding us of Fox will cure all our ills. I get it you don’t like Fox and the lack of production you perceive as his fault. But using your own words “...like the Giants just did” would involve ousting Pace as well. Which to me is more important.

[Connorbear]

I know you won't want me to repeat this but I'm going to anyway. I still have a hard time placing blame on Fox for what we're looking at. He has been to two (COUNT THEM 2) Super Bowls with not ONE but TWO different teams in TWO different eras. Sure what he has done is just that, been done. I get your perspective but I think that simply an excuse to get rid of him because for whatever reason, you don't like him or his style. I don't buy that the NFL has changed that much that his effectiveness has worn out. If that were true then Bill Belichick and the "Patriot Way" as well as John Harbaugh and the "Raven Way" would be obsolete.

 

The unproven between Fox and Pace is clearly and unquestionably Pace. I almost hate for Fox's career to be sullied because of the situation he was put in to not be able to produce in Chicago. Is that completely Pace's fault? No. Part of the delay of Fox's ability to develop this team was due to the ridiculous (I'd say ludicrous) contract Cutler was given with which the Bears were not able to escape sooner. That delayed our team's development for sure by one year if not two. Many here thought with a new coaching staff and specifically a QB friendly OC, with the likes of Gase, Cutler would surely turn it around. He showed a glimmer of hope that one year with Gase but fell back to his old ways almost immediately once Gase was gone. Should and could Fox have sat Cutler's ass earlier than he did last year and had Hoyer or even Barkley play out last year? In retrospect; yes. But the very next question I would ask is whose idea was it to bring in Glennon for his own ridiculous contract (lf only for one year) only to draft a QB in the first round? Then not only that but, knowing our team had multiple holes to fill, squander present and future draft picks to get an unproven (and raw) QB talent like Trubisky. You think that was Fox's plan? I highly doubt it.

 

No. I blame a lot (if not all) of this mess on Pace. Like I said before Fox will undoubtedly be the fall guy for what I see as Pace's inexperience and ineptitude. Pace will 'pick his own coach' and more than likely like Emery will foul things up even more in the personnel management continuing our limp through a few more years' worth of less than mediocre performances. Like DBDB points out in his reply, he'll have a hard time convincing any coach worth their weight to come to our team to take it on knowing the dysfunction that awaits.

 

I put the offensive woes all on Fox. He could have dumped Loggains earlier in the year when McCoy came available but he stuck with him. What did Loggains do yesterday?

 

- 9 snaps for Adam Shaheen

- 1 snap for Markus Wheaton (on a team dying at receiver)

 

147 total yards against a crap defense. He should have been fired weeks ago and Fox stuck with him.

 

They need to go.

 

Peace

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Agreed totally. To me it makes more sense to clean house (GM down), at this point, than it doesn't.

I don't think that changes things...actually makes them worse. A new GM and we'd be on our 3rd GM in a very short order (and that is extremely uncommon). That literally puts us in the same spot as the Browns.

[ChileBear]

I don't think that changes things...actually makes them worse. A new GM and we'd be on our 3rd GM in a very short order (and that is extremely uncommon). That literally puts us in the same spot as the Browns.

'DABEARSDABOMB crap, yes. So, Viriginia please, do what Papa did, Get us a coach that will bring it.

[bowlingtwig]

I know you won't want me to repeat this but I'm going to anyway. I still have a hard time placing blame on Fox for what we're looking at. He has been to two (COUNT THEM 2) Super Bowls with not ONE but TWO different teams in TWO different eras. Sure what he has done is just that, been done. I get your perspective but I think that simply an excuse to get rid of him because for whatever reason, you don't like him or his style. I don't buy that the NFL has changed that much that his effectiveness has worn out. If that were true then Bill Belichick and the "Patriot Way" as well as John Harbaugh and the "Raven Way" would be obsolete.

 

The unproven between Fox and Pace is clearly and unquestionably Pace. I almost hate for Fox's career to be sullied because of the situation he was put in to not be able to produce in Chicago. Is that completely Pace's fault? No. Part of the delay of Fox's ability to develop this team was due to the ridiculous (I'd say ludicrous) contract Cutler was given with which the Bears were not able to escape sooner. That delayed our team's development for sure by one year if not two. Many here thought with a new coaching staff and specifically a QB friendly OC, with the likes of Gase, Cutler would surely turn it around. He showed a glimmer of hope that one year with Gase but fell back to his old ways almost immediately once Gase was gone. Should and could Fox have sat Cutler's ass earlier than he did last year and had Hoyer or even Barkley play out last year? In retrospect; yes. But the very next question I would ask is whose idea was it to bring in Glennon for his own ridiculous contract (lf only for one year) only to draft a QB in the first round? Then not only that but, knowing our team had multiple holes to fill, squander present and future draft picks to get an unproven (and raw) QB talent like Trubisky. You think that was Fox's plan? I highly doubt it.

 

No. I blame a lot (if not all) of this mess on Pace. Like I said before Fox will undoubtedly be the fall guy for what I see as Pace's inexperience and ineptitude. Pace will 'pick his own coach' and more than likely like Emery will foul things up even more in the personnel management continuing our limp through a few more years' worth of less than mediocre performances. Like DBDB points out in his reply, he'll have a hard time convincing any coach worth their weight to come to our team to take it on knowing the dysfunction that awaits.

I put alot of the blame on coaching. Especially the offensively play calling which is stunting trubisky. Now the last I checked the play calling and in game strategies and game plans falls specifically on the coaches. The same coaches who claim that we need to see what certain players can provide but then choose not to play those guys. Trubisky has twice now called this out specifically in regards to Cohen who barely even plays but when he does he produces. Now how in the world is this Pace's fault. He went out and got guys who "might" be able to produce unfortunately we don't know if they can because the coaches don't play them.

 

I totally get what fox has done in the past and that if truly phenomenal what he's done but Answer me this what exactly has he done since arriving at halas hall. I certainly can't get behind the idea of firing the gm and not the coach when it wasn't even there GM's call to bring in the HC. Unfortunately we can't do anything conventional around here. We fired trestman after just 13 wins in 2 yrs. We'll Fox has been here for almost 3 yrs now and has a grand total of 12 wins. The last yr under trestman the team quit and it was evidenced by blow outs. Under fox we have gotten blown out at a greater percentage. Yet your idea is to keep it the same or fire pace? That's very scary. What would it take for you to get behind the idea of firing fox?

[bowlingtwig]

Here are a few things to keep in mind this week. Howard has averaged 4.2 yds per attempt and San Francisco came in to the game ranked 30th against the rush. Conventional wisdom says the game should have been heavy dose of Howard. Instead he got 13 carries. We had 1st and 10 a total of 14 times this game. On 9 of those plays we ran the ball and of those 9 times Howard ran it 7 times to the left side. We had 37 offensive snaps and 22 times we were in shotgun formation. Of those 22 snaps trubisky dropped back to pass 18 times. Any one want to talk predictable?

 

Another issue was Chris prosinski was signed this past week when amos went down. He was out of football since we cut him during preseason with an injury settlement. Significance with this is that not only did he play but he started and played every defensive snap in the game. How does a guy literally off the street start and play every snap over a 2nd yr 4th rd guy who's been here the entire time?

 

Further more josh bellamy played 30 of 37 snaps yesterday. Just a reminder he was involved in the verbal altercation with McBride that got McBride cut. Want to talk about accountability?

 

These are just a number of things that gets to me and all this stuff falls directly on the coaching staff

[Alaskan Grizzly]

I don't think that changes things...actually makes them worse. A new GM and we'd be on our 3rd GM in a very short order (and that is extremely uncommon). That literally puts us in the same spot as the Browns.

 

I disagree. I think not ridding us of Pace sooner than later only delays the inevitable.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Here are a few things to keep in mind this week. Howard has averaged 4.2 yds per attempt and San Francisco came in to the game ranked 30th against the rush. Conventional wisdom says the game should have been heavy dose of Howard. Instead he got 13 carries. We had 1st and 10 a total of 14 times this game. On 9 of those plays we ran the ball and of those 9 times Howard ran it 7 times to the left side. We had 37 offensive snaps and 22 times we were in shotgun formation. Of those 22 snaps trubisky dropped back to pass 18 times. Any one want to talk predictable?

 

Another issue was Chris prosinski was signed this past week when amos went down. He was out of football since we cut him during preseason with an injury settlement. Significance with this is that not only did he play but he started and played every defensive snap in the game. How does a guy literally off the street start and play every snap over a 2nd yr 4th rd guy who's been here the entire time?

 

Further more josh bellamy played 30 of 37 snaps yesterday. Just a reminder he was involved in the verbal altercation with McBride that got McBride cut. Want to talk about accountability?

 

These are just a number of things that gets to me and all this stuff falls directly on the coaching staff

Prosinski and Houston both got a ton of reps and weren't on the roster the week before. The fact that the middle of the field was wide open on numerous occasions shouldn't really shock us.

[madlithuanian]

Wow...

 

I'm not sure how to respond, but ultimately what you think of Fox is irrelevant. He will be gone. The question at hand is should Pace...and I think you've answered that with a yes. And I understand why.

 

As to the Fox support, I can't fathom that. But, that's OK. Because it's semantics at this point.

 

I know you won't want me to repeat this but I'm going to anyway. I still have a hard time placing blame on Fox for what we're looking at. He has been to two (COUNT THEM 2) Super Bowls with not ONE but TWO different teams in TWO different eras. Sure what he has done is just that, been done. I get your perspective but I think that simply an excuse to get rid of him because for whatever reason, you don't like him or his style. I don't buy that the NFL has changed that much that his effectiveness has worn out. If that were true then Bill Belichick and the "Patriot Way" as well as John Harbaugh and the "Raven Way" would be obsolete.

 

The unproven between Fox and Pace is clearly and unquestionably Pace. I almost hate for Fox's career to be sullied because of the situation he was put in to not be able to produce in Chicago. Is that completely Pace's fault? No. Part of the delay of Fox's ability to develop this team was due to the ridiculous (I'd say ludicrous) contract Cutler was given with which the Bears were not able to escape sooner. That delayed our team's development for sure by one year if not two. Many here thought with a new coaching staff and specifically a QB friendly OC, with the likes of Gase, Cutler would surely turn it around. He showed a glimmer of hope that one year with Gase but fell back to his old ways almost immediately once Gase was gone. Should and could Fox have sat Cutler's ass earlier than he did last year and had Hoyer or even Barkley play out last year? In retrospect; yes. But the very next question I would ask is whose idea was it to bring in Glennon for his own ridiculous contract (lf only for one year) only to draft a QB in the first round? Then not only that but, knowing our team had multiple holes to fill, squander present and future draft picks to get an unproven (and raw) QB talent like Trubisky. You think that was Fox's plan? I highly doubt it.

 

No. I blame a lot (if not all) of this mess on Pace. Like I said before Fox will undoubtedly be the fall guy for what I see as Pace's inexperience and ineptitude. Pace will 'pick his own coach' and more than likely like Emery will foul things up even more in the personnel management continuing our limp through a few more years' worth of less than mediocre performances. Like DBDB points out in his reply, he'll have a hard time convincing any coach worth their weight to come to our team to take it on knowing the dysfunction that awaits.

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Wow...

 

I'm not sure how to respond, but ultimately what you think of Fox is irrelevant. He will be gone. The question at hand is should Pace...and I think you've answered that with a yes. And I understand why.

 

As to the Fox support, I can't fathom that. But, that's OK. Because it's semantics at this point.

 

To borrow a "Gone with the Wind" reference; "Frankly, I could give a damn" when you can't understand my logic. But I'm sure the same would be said in response from you. Yes the odds are that Fox will be gone but I have this unsettling belief he is not the root of our woes. You can blindly follow in faith to what Pace will do from here on out, but I won't be so easily won over. Again, I'm sure you could care none more. Be that as it may, we will move on to someone new and next year will be Pace's to own. I just hope that its not at the expense of our team.

[bowlingtwig]

To borrow a "Gone with the Wind" reference; "Frankly, I could give a damn" when you can't understand my logic. But I'm sure the same would be said in response from you. Yes the odds are that Fox will be gone but I have this unsettling belief he is not the root of our woes. You can blindly follow in faith to what Pace will do from here on out, but I won't be so easily won over. Again, I'm sure you could care none more. Be that as it may, we will move on to someone new and next year will be Pace's to own. I just hope that its not at the expense of our team.

I don't think fox is the root of all our problems however the coaching staff is without question a major problem which is why they must go. Ive got my own reservations about pace I'm just not sure we are best served by blowing everything completely up all again. With things as bad as they are I can't justify bringing everyone back. The easiest thing to do is start with the coaching staff because they are a huge problem. And like you said pace will then own it completely starting next yr and hopefully he gets it right otherwise we will stuck with blowing it all up again and at that point we might as well be the browns. Pace needs to make this next draft absolutely count and he needs to bring in a coaching staff that isn't afraid to start younger players

[Alaskan Grizzly]

I put alot of the blame on coaching. Especially the offensively play calling which is stunting trubisky. Now the last I checked the play calling and in game strategies and game plans falls specifically on the coaches. The same coaches who claim that we need to see what certain players can provide but then choose not to play those guys. Trubisky has twice now called this out specifically in regards to Cohen who barely even plays but when he does he produces. Now how in the world is this Pace's fault. He went out and got guys who "might" be able to produce unfortunately we don't know if they can because the coaches don't play them.

 

If the 'offensive play calling' is stunting Trubisky, then replace the offensive play caller. Why Fox hasn't done it yet is beyond me. Perhaps that should be enough to encourage me to jump on the bandwagon with you? Trubisky has now called out who(?) Fox? And asked for Cohen to play more? What have you seen from Cohen that convinces you he deserves more time to play? Especially with Howard as the projected #1 RB? Fox is known to be an RBC guy historically, so why is it he's not demanding it more? And yes, please explain to me why players like Shaheen, K. White, Hronis Grasu, Tayo Fabuluge, Deon Bush, Deondre Hall, Deondre Houston-Carson, Daniel Braverman and Jordan Morgan aren't playing? Those are all players that Pace has drafted and cultivated for Fox to use and are almost nowhere to be seen. So instead he brings in these no-name or near forgotten FA's to backfill. Why aren't these draft picks producing? Is it because Fox can't coach them?

 

I totally get what fox has done in the past and that if truly phenomenal what he's done but Answer me this what exactly has he done since arriving at halas hall. I certainly can't get behind the idea of firing the gm and not the coach when it wasn't even there GM's call to bring in the HC. Unfortunately we can't do anything conventional around here. We fired trestman after just 13 wins in 2 yrs. We'll Fox has been here for almost 3 yrs now and has a grand total of 12 wins. The last yr under trestman the team quit and it was evidenced by blow outs. Under fox we have gotten blown out at a greater percentage. Yet your idea is to keep it the same or fire pace? That's very scary. What would it take for you to get behind the idea of firing fox?

 

My simple reply to your last question would be; what are the players thinking? We know last week Hicks supported Fox staying. We even know that Urlacher endorsed him. I don't really care what Trubisky thinks, especially if its contrary; he hasn't yet proven he has any stake in this team's future. If Fox has truly LOST the team, and its convincing he has...then I'm good with him being gone.