"The Toilet Bowl" Browns at Bears Game Thread

[Chitownhustla]

As you know I concentrate more on the skill positions and in this case specifically the QB spot. In that same timeframe (2007-present) there have been 13 QBs that started for the team. Is that due to poor oline play or poor QB selection and production?

 

He's gone bro......still cant give it a rest? Two things you can count on Grizzly to do, bring up Lovie and Cutler. One he hates and one he misses! LOL

[bowlingtwig]

Its freakin sad....... You are right the SB year the OLine played well. Other then that its been weak. They have tried but failed. Hopefully Pace finally figures it out.

I could be wrong but isn't that the last time we had all 5 guys start the entire yr

[Lucky Luciano]

I think it's a little of both. But I'm firmly convinced that the atrocious OL turned Jay Cutler into a shell of what he was, and what he could have been.

 

BTW - It's also due to lots of coaching staff changes.

 

**edit**

The fact that Cutler had to scramble so much was because of the bad OL play, and has been pointed out many many times in interviews and analysis. It completely changed who he was as a QB, his internal clock, and his trust of an offensive system.

 

agreed. i have been saying this for years.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Its freakin sad....... You are right the SB year the OLine played well. Other then that its been weak. They have tried but failed. Hopefully Pace finally figures it out.

 

“They” tried and failed eh? And how long do you give Pace to “figure it out”? Since he’s been GM he’s drafted; Grasu, Fabuluje, Whitehair and Morgan (that’s three draft cycles) and signed Compton, Sowell, Boggs, Larsen, Will Montgomery, Sitton, Ducasse, and Massie as FAs during that same three year span. How many of those OLmen are contributing today?

[Alaskan Grizzly]

He's gone bro......still cant give it a rest? Two things you can count on Grizzly to do, bring up Lovie and Cutler. One he hates and one he misses! LOL

 

One thing you can be counted on is your total disregard for reading comprehension. I know who you’re talking about when you say ‘hes’ gone’ but please show me where I was specifically referencing Cutler. In fact I was regarding the very fact that for some reason our team can’t seem to find a suitable and true franchise worthy QB. Just so happens that in the same 10 year span Jason was referring to we saw 13 different QBs start. There’s a hell of a lot more that have come and gone since Jim McMahon was our QB.

 

And to go one step further, and remain focused on skill players, how many successful WRs has our team had? Or is it true what Mushin Muhammad said that Chicago is “...where WRs go to die.”?

[Alaskan Grizzly]

I think it's a little of both. But I'm firmly convinced that the atrocious OL turned Jay Cutler into a shell of what he was, and what he could have been.

 

BTW - It's also due to lots of coaching staff changes.

 

**edit**

The fact that Cutler had to scramble so much was because of the bad OL play, and has been pointed out many many times in interviews and analysis. It completely changed who he was as a QB, his internal clock, and his trust of an offensive system.

 

I know you’re convinced that Jay could not produce because he was forced to run all the time due to (in your opinion) poor Oline play. But I’ll remind you that he was a scrambler at Vanderbilt as he was when he went to Denver. And now in Miami, where he is less inclined to scramble, he still makes the same mistakes.

[Chitownhustla]

One thing you can be counted on is your total disregard for reading comprehension. I know who you’re talking about when you say ‘hes’ gone’ but please show me where I was specifically referencing Cutler. In fact I was regarding the very fact that for some reason our team can’t seem to find a suitable and true franchise worthy QB. Just so happens that in the same 10 year span Jason was referring to we saw 13 different QBs start. There’s a hell of a lot more that have come and gone since Jim McMahon was our QB.

 

And to go one step further, and remain focused on skill players, how many successful WRs has our team had? Or is it true what Mushin Muhammad said that Chicago is “...where WRs go to die.”?

 

HMMMMMM....hey Lavar, take a look at Jason's response........I guess he knew where you going with your post ..........I read your post and saw Jason's post and put two and two together. My bad......

 

 

 

 

[Chitownhustla]

I know you’re convinced that Jay could not produce because he was forced to run all the time due to (in your opinion) poor Oline play. But I’ll remind you that he was a scrambler at Vanderbilt as he was when he went to Denver. And now in Miami, where he is less inclined to scramble, he still makes the same mistakes.

 

 

Two questions,

 

1. Did the Bears ever use Cutler like Denver did the year before he was traded to the Bears. If you forgot Cutler made the Pro Bowl that year.

2. Do you know how many times Cutler was sacked that same year? Once you look that up compare that to his time in Chicago.

 

 

Only reason I ask to show that there is SOME correlation to oline and qb play......unless you are Aaron Rodgers (but we all know Cutler is NO Rodgers) then that notion gets thrown out the window.

[Chitownhustla]

“They” tried and failed eh? And how long do you give Pace to “figure it out”? Since he’s been GM he’s drafted; Grasu, Fabuluje, Whitehair and Morgan (that’s three draft cycles) and signed Compton, Sowell, Boggs, Larsen, Will Montgomery, Sitton, Ducasse, and Massie as FAs during that same three year span. How many of those OLmen are contributing today?

 

 

If it were up to me I would FIRE Ted Phillips and work my way down once I hired a REAL Team President. Let a REAL FOOTBALL GUY decide who stays and who goes. If I have to predict what the Bears do I say Pace stays and Fox goes, but who knows.

[jason]

I know you’re convinced that Jay could not produce because he was forced to run all the time due to (in your opinion) poor Oline play. But I’ll remind you that he was a scrambler at Vanderbilt as he was when he went to Denver. And now in Miami, where he is less inclined to scramble, he still makes the same mistakes.

 

Dude, you've tried to use that Vandy line before and it was disproven by Jay's own interviews. He ran at Vandy because his line was mostly comprised of scholar-athletes, and were being blitzed by athlete-scholars. He was simply not a scrambler by design like he was in Denver. He was on the bottom dweller in the SEC and had to run for his life quite a bit.

 

Denver was a smart offense that didn't really make him scramble so much as roll out and bootleg.

[jason]

One thing you can be counted on is your total disregard for reading comprehension. I know who you’re talking about when you say ‘hes’ gone’ but please show me where I was specifically referencing Cutler. In fact I was regarding the very fact that for some reason our team can’t seem to find a suitable and true franchise worthy QB. Just so happens that in the same 10 year span Jason was referring to we saw 13 different QBs start. There’s a hell of a lot more that have come and gone since Jim McMahon was our QB.

 

And to go one step further, and remain focused on skill players, how many successful WRs has our team had? Or is it true what Mushin Muhammad said that Chicago is “...where WRs go to die.”?

 

The "how many WRs"-argument is the same as the "how many QBs"-argument. Can't do much if the QB is constantly under duress. As a QB you can't settle or relax into an offense, much less make a 2nd/3rd read. As an offense, you can't have long developing routes that spread and confuse the defense more. Therefore, the WRs have been hindered by the same OL.

 

I've said it a hundred times on this board. I don't give a damn how much you improve the QB and WR positions. If the QB is constantly running and littered with grass stains at the end of the game, the skill positions will never see their true potential, much less put in stellar years.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Dude, you've tried to use that Vandy line before and it was disproven by Jay's own interviews. He ran at Vandy because his line was mostly comprised of scholar-athletes, and were being blitzed by athlete-scholars. He was simply not a scrambler by design like he was in Denver. He was on the bottom dweller in the SEC and had to run for his life quite a bit.

 

Denver was a smart offense that didn't really make him scramble so much as roll out and bootleg.

 

You’re telling me he wasn’t a scrambling QB? According to Wikipedia (who pulled the info from the Denver Broncos website) while in High School and: “during his senior year, Cutler connected on 122 of 202 passes (60.4%) for 2,252 yards with 31 touchdowns, while rushing 65 times for 493 yards with 11 touchdowns.”

 

Because I was curious; I randomly looked for a known rushing QB to see how he compares while also in HS. Michael Vick attended Warwick HS in New Port News VA where he started for three years and “passed for 4,846 yards with 43 touchdowns. He added 1,048 yards and 18 scores on the ground.” 1,048 yards over three years avearges out to just under 350 yard per year. And you’re still convinced Cutler wasn’t a rushing minded QB?

 

And to further our discussion about WR futility; in their history the Bears have had only 15 times where receivers went over 1,000 yards. Four of those times were between Marshall and Jeffery in the years 2012-14. (One of those year’s was while Mike Tice was OC I might add). Yes it doesn’t help my argument about how well Cutler can play when he wants to but it shows that we can have decent WRs if chosen wisely. But where are Jeffery and Marshall now? Not playing for Chicago. Who was GM when both were let go? More importantly, what has he done to ‘help Trubisky’ as you’ve asked before?

[Chitownhustla]

You’re telling me he wasn’t a scrambling QB? According to Wikipedia (who pulled the info from the Denver Broncos website) while in High School and: “during his senior year, Cutler connected on 122 of 202 passes (60.4%) for 2,252 yards with 31 touchdowns, while rushing 65 times for 493 yards with 11 touchdowns.”

 

Because I was curious; I randomly looked for a known rushing QB to see how he compares while also in HS. Michael Vick attended Warwick HS in New Port News VA where he started for three years and “passed for 4,846 yards with 43 touchdowns. He added 1,048 yards and 18 scores on the ground.” 1,048 yards over three years avearges out to just under 350 yard per year. And you’re still convinced Cutler wasn’t a rushing minded QB?

 

And to further our discussion about WR futility; in their history the Bears have had only 15 times where receivers went over 1,000 yards. Four of those times were between Marshall and Jeffery in the years 2012-14. (One of this year’s was while Mike Tice was OC). Yes it doesn’t help my argument about how well Cutler can play when he wants to but it shows that we can have decent WRs if chosen wisely. But where are Jeffery and Marshall now? Not playing for Chicago. Who was GM when both were let go? More importantly, what has he done to ‘help Trubisky’ as you’ve asked before?

 

Lavar,

 

Are you really trying to compare two NFL QB's rushing stats from High school to validate your claim that Cutler was a rushing QB? I know my reading comprehension isn't the best but that's how your post reads.

 

 

Screw any stat you can find, just watch the game film of both QB's while in the NFL. One was a "drop back, first read wasn't open look to run" the other was "drop back, run when all else failed".

 

 

Cutler in the NFL is a mobile QB that only ran when he had to. Now in High school he may have ran first, but with an arm like Cutler's I doubt that was the case.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Lavar,

 

Are you really trying to compare two NFL QB's rushing stats from High school to validate your claim that Cutler was a rushing QB? I know my reading comprehension isn't the best but that's how your post reads.

 

 

Screw any stat you can find, just watch the game film of both QB's while in the NFL. One was a "drop back, first read wasn't open look to run" the other was "drop back, run when all else failed".

 

 

Cutler in the NFL is a mobile QB that only ran when he had to. Now in High school he may have ran first, but with an arm like Cutler's I doubt that was the case.

 

*edit: and since you mentioned it and evidently missed it in the earlier post (according to Wikipedia); “During his senior year, Cutler connected on 122 of 202 passes (60.4%) for 2,252 yards with 31 touchdowns...” So no he didn’t have to “run first”

 

Compare him to others if you want, or don’t. Cam Newton, Randall Cunningham, Steve Young...I’m sure you’ll find consistency. I know you’re a proponent of Cutlers for whatever reason but he proved he could not make it in the NFL, not to the elite level. If we needed anymore validation it was evident at his last gasp effort with Miami. And that was with a coach sensitive to his limited skills. Brian Billick predicted correctly (IMHO) that Cutler and Jeff George had similar traits and similar “luck”. Either way, neither played to their potential. Bottom line, they failed.