Jordan Howard rumor

[ASHKUM BEAR]

The hot stove is burning this afternoon with speculation Jordan Howard will be on the move. Today he removed his Bear related photos from his Instagram account which caused Twitter to explode with rumors.  The rumor gaining steam was trading Howard and the 8th pick to the Giants for their 2nd overall pick.  Are the Bears targeting Barkley, who seems to be a better fit for Nagys offense? Or are they going for Chubb who fits their biggest need as a pass rusher or Nelson who could solidify the line for a century. Maybe Pace wants the power to trade down when QB needy teams decides to give the farm for Darnold, Rosen, or Allen. This is a rich RB draft, so the Bears could fill the role later if they don't see the value using a 1st on that position, they have been successful finding Howard and Cohen.  Now this could get interesting. 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

Now, it is all rumors and Rapport even tried to squash it, but something must have happened.  People do this when they don't feel the love. 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Their was the previous rumors about Landry for Howard. More recently I've seen a lot of fans (more fans) speculating Howard to Colts with our pick to move up for Barkley.  In general, it seems like a lot of outsiders think Howard is on the move.  I really am a Howard fan so I'd rather we maintain the strength at RB and use our pick to address another need (just my 2 cents).  

After the Landry reports were out there, I felt like the Chicago media made a strong push that management had zero desire to move Howard and those leaks were coming from the Dolphins (who very much wanted Howard).  

I think the rub is, people assume Howard isn't a good fit in Nagy's system given some of the limitations in his receiving.  All that said, hard to ignore when someone removes all Bear images. Not a good feeling.  Maybe its a pure matter of "not feeling the love".  

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I did a little digging and it turns out Howard also deleted all of his high school and college picks. Additionally, the deletions happened 4 days ago (i.e., before he came to Halas Hall on Tuesday).  Bottom line, this now feels a lot more like "nothing".  

[ASHKUM BEAR]

30 minutes ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

I did a little digging and it turns out Howard also deleted all of his high school and college picks. Additionally, the deletions happened 4 days ago (i.e., before he came to Halas Hall on Tuesday).  Bottom line, this now feels a lot more like "nothing".  

I hope you are right. I didn' realize he removed all of those other pics. He also supposedly unfollowed the Bears IG page. 

I would consider that Giants deal. More so to use it to trade down for a team wanting to leapfrog the Jets. Maybe there will be some grip on the Arz trade. 8 for Chandler Jones, 15, and 47. 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Total hogwash, true or not. Absolute bottom line is Howard is currently the one ‘known’ on the Bears offense.  In that I mean to say he has proven himself for two straight years (despite even the possibility of the fabled sophomoric slump) to be a steadying force on this team on this side of the ball.  Trubisky has only played part of one year.  Cohen has played a limited role behind Howard. Shaheen has played how much as an NFL TE?  And name one WR on this team that has proven themselves in Nagys offense?  

For Pace to consider ridding the team of the one constant on this team over the course of the last two years is unadulterated horse puckey . Let alone to trade up and try to get an even more unknown from the college ranks. 

I still question many of Pace’s moves despite liking SOME of them myself.  But this would far outweigh sanity and in my opinion question his relevance as a talent scout. 

[Stinger226]

A player is  not going to pay attention to rumors the internet creates. If he was going to be traded, there would be a deal done. Not speculation.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Unrelated, but no way would Howard and the 8 pick be enough to move up to the Giants pick. I would actually make that trade 100 times over and I love Howard. But it would purely be to flip the pick again with the Bills or Broncos to accumulate more assets. 

[AZ54]

I only see one angle where this deal could be considered and even at that I doubt Howard is enough value to balance out the trade.   There are 800 pts between #2 and #8, equivalent to pick #21  in the 1st Rd.  

It is hard to figure out the Giants this offseason.  Are they keeping Eli and trying to win with him now, or not?   If not, then their choice is obvious and they stay at #2 and take a QB.  That portends a full rebuild and staying with Eli another year just delays the rookie's progress, likely increases their win total in 2018 which reduces draft capital in 2019. 

However, if they are serious about trying to win with Eli this year or next then they have to be all-in and need as much young talent as they can squeeze in under their salary cap.  That includes keeping a happy OBJ around, and he's only happy if he's been paid.   Staying at #2 when the Jets offered a lot to move up indicates they want a QB.   Babbling on and on about trading OBJ indicates this is a rebuild with a new QB.  Are the recent OBJ talks just the Giants way to reduce his contract demands?   Maybe, because the Rams sure moved on quickly when they gave up a 1st Rd pick to get Cooks a far less talented WR.  

If OTC.com is accurate then the Giants have just $5mil in cap space, not even enough to sign their rookies.  At their current draft slot the Giants need about $9.7mil to sign their rookies.  Assume their target is Barkley, then they can save a couple million by dropping back to the Bears spot and still get a very good starting caliber RB, plus add a possible blue chip talent at #8, and have more money for OBJ.   

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space

I can't see Pace giving up more draft picks but I could see him giving up another good young player.  That would have to be someone like Jonathan Bullard, assuming they believe as I do that RRH will be the better DE among the two.  

Overall rating on this rumor:  A puff of smoke nothing more.  

 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

13 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Total hogwash, true or not. Absolute bottom line is Howard is currently the one ‘known’ on the Bears offense.  In that I mean to say he has proven himself for two straight years (despite even the possibility of the fabled sophomoric slump) to be a steadying force on this team on this side of the ball.  Trubisky has only played part of one year.  Cohen has played a limited role behind Howard. Shaheen has played how much as an NFL TE?  And name one WR on this team that has proven themselves in Nagys offense?  

For Pace to consider ridding the team of the one constant on this team over the course of the last two years is unadulterated horse puckey . Let alone to trade up and try to get an even more unknown from the college ranks. 

I still question many of Pace’s moves despite liking SOME of them myself.  But this would far outweigh sanity and in my opinion question his relevance as a talent scout. 

I agree he is the highlight on the offense the past 2 years. It is all speculation, but it was heavy enough Rapport responded to it, so I thought I'd share.  We will be seeing all kinds of smoke these next few weeks. Hope Howard has thick skin, he is being picked on a lot lately.

[adam]

It seems really odd to me. He has always been a team guy, so to do something like this right before the draft and after the trade rumors seems odd. Compare that to his almost weekly posts about the team throughout the season. I believe he was told by the team that they were shopping him and wanted to at least give him a heads up, he got butt hurt and purged his IG account. 

[BearFan2000]

13 hours ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

Unrelated, but no way would Howard and the 8 pick be enough to move up to the Giants pick. I would actually make that trade 100 times over and I love Howard. But it would purely be to flip the pick again with the Bills or Broncos to accumulate more assets. 

I agree here.  Howard + #8 pick does not equal #2 pick so I don't see that happening.  It'd have to be Howard, our #8, and something else.  The Jets gave up three #2's to move up 3 spots.  This would be moving up 6 spots.    It'd be a hell of a move if Pace could pull it off, but it's also a hell of a risk to trade away a damn good RB who simply needs to work a little on his catching skills for extra picks that would have to involve a high enough pick to replace Howard as we'd then be standing with extra picks but no #1 back on the roster.  

I'd much rather keep Howard, stay at 8 and grab best available (which should be plenty of good to pick from), or trade down a bit and still get a good player plus extra picks.  

I think like the Landry rumor it's nothing more than speculation created by people connecting dots that may not actually connect.  Since the hiring of Nagy people have speculated whether Howard is a fit, and thus look at scenarios where the Bears trade away Howard for either a RB that better fits or for a chance to pick one in the draft that better fits.  The whole IG thing can always be misread.  His taking pictures down may have reasons other than what's being speculated.  Now if we're in year 2 of Nagy's system and it's clear Howard isn't a good fit that's a different thing.  I'd say Jordan's production on the ground the last two years has earned him a chance to show he can fit in this new offense.  Another way to look at it is it's not like we are the Cheifs and are looking at a trading for Howard and questioning if he'd fit that system as is.  This offense is going to be tailored to the talent we have.  I don't believe they will design an offense that doesn't play to Howard's strengths and minimize his weaknesses.   It's possible we'll see him and Cohen in the backfield together.  

[Stinger226]

What sense does it make to give up Howard, another young player or a future 1 or 2 to move up to grab a RB? You replace one strength and lose two assets.Howard is a hard worker and will get better at catching. He  may not be a bluechip pass catcher but he absolutely fits the power middle running game that the spread offense will put in place.

[BearFan PHX]

1 minute ago, Stinger226 said:

What sense does it make to give up Howard, another young player or a future 1 or 2 to move up to grab a RB? You replace one strength and lose two assets.Howard is a hard worker and will get better at catching. He  may not be a bluechip pass catcher but he absolutely fits the power middle running game that the spread offense will put in place.

exactly.

Uprgrading Howard isn't worth our first round pick. Not when we can upgrade other positions that really need it, like the defensive front 7 and the Offensive Line.

We still need OLB, ILB, DE, OG and OT.

[bradjock]

15 hours ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

Unrelated, but no way would Howard and the 8 pick be enough to move up to the Giants pick. I would actually make that trade 100 times over and I love Howard. But it would purely be to flip the pick again with the Bills or Broncos to accumulate more assets. 

Agreed 100%.  That deal ain’t going to happen.  But I believe he’s on the move.  Consider: 

1.  Howard is a really good between the tackles runner and a bad receiver.  In Nagy’s system, he rushes for 800 yards cause he’ll be on the sidelines.  When that happens, Howard’s not happy and his value plummets.  Nobody wins.  Why not move him when his value is at his peak?  If you disagree, name the last great Chiefs or Eagles running back who wasn’t a receiver.   

2.  This draft is really deep with runnning backs.  What’s Howard’s value?  Especially considering he’s not elite and he thrives in a particular system.  I’m thinking he’s worth the Giants 3rd round pick.   Again, please consider the value of a really good/not great running back, that fits a particular system.  What’s he worth? 

3.  Do you believe Moon Mullin?   I don’t think he reports that if it wasn’t from a credible source.  The rumor was we give up Howard and the #8 to receive the Landry, the #11, and a 3rd round pick.   That would have been a bad deal for the Bears.  Cleveland gave up a 4th round and 7th round.  Then they have to pay Landry 17 million and sign him to a long term deal.  The big kicker for me is that the #8 for the Bears could be REALLY valuable if the right QB drops.  It was smarter for us to just sign Allen Robinson and see what happens.  In short, I think there were talks, but that the deal broke down.  

In shot, I think we trade Howard if the value is there.  

[ASHKUM BEAR]

43 minutes ago, bradjock said:

Agreed 100%.  That deal ain’t going to happen.  But I believe he’s on the move.  Consider: 

1.  Howard is a really good between the tackles runner and a bad receiver.  In Nagy’s system, he rushes for 800 yards cause he’ll be on the sidelines.  When that happens, Howard’s not happy and his value plummets.  Nobody wins.  Why not move him when his value is at his peak?  If you disagree, name the last great Chiefs or Eagles running back who wasn’t a receiver.   

2.  This draft is really deep with runnning backs.  What’s Howard’s value?  Especially considering he’s not elite and he thrives in a particular system.  I’m thinking he’s worth the Giants 3rd round pick.   Again, please consider the value of a really good/not great running back, that fits a particular system.  What’s he worth? 

3.  Do you believe Moon Mullin?   I don’t think he reports that if it wasn’t from a credible source.  The rumor was we give up Howard and the #8 to receive the Landry, the #11, and a 3rd round pick.   That would have been a bad deal for the Bears.  Cleveland gave up a 4th round and 7th round.  Then they have to pay Landry 17 million and sign him to a long term deal.  The big kicker for me is that the #8 for the Bears could be REALLY valuable if the right QB drops.  It was smarter for us to just sign Allen Robinson and see what happens.  In short, I think there were talks, but that the deal broke down.  

In shot, I think we trade Howard if the value is there.  

Nice breakdown Brad, if it happens your reasoning helps..  This is a deep RB class and if Barkley is not the target, I like the looks of Rashaad Penny. Even Royce Freeman might get a look from Oregon. I'd prefer not to draft RB in the 1st or 2nd, but with Pace you never know. 

[Stinger226]

Do you really believe Howard will only run for 800 yards? I suspect he will be closer to leading the league than being in the top 20. The biggest thing the spread west coast will do is open up the running game in the middle of the field. Hunt had 1327 yards in this spread offense. He had 53 receptions. So if Howard has 40 as a average pass catcher, do you really think his rushing yards will only be 800 yards? No way. In the last two years he had 23 and 29 receptions. A user friendly offense, even if his reception rate is low .  Hunt had a catch rate of 84%, Howards was 72%. Lets say he improves to 78%, how much of a difference will that make in his rushing yards? I think not much. 

[jason]

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

Do you really believe Howard will only run for 800 yards? I suspect he will be closer to leading the league than being in the top 20. The biggest thing the spread west coast will do is open up the running game in the middle of the field. Hunt had 1327 yards in this spread offense. He had 53 receptions. So if Howard has 40 as a average pass catcher, do you really think his rushing yards will only be 800 yards? No way. In the last two years he had 23 and 29 receptions. A user friendly offense, even if his reception rate is low .  Hunt had a catch rate of 84%, Howards was 72%. Lets say he improves to 78%, how much of a difference will that make in his rushing yards? I think not much. 

Excellent comment. I don't see this Howard trade making sense. Trading Howard creates a problem that doesn't need to exist. He's already elite, and has room to improve in the pass catching game. I think he'll explode in this offense.

[bradjock]

7 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

Do you really believe Howard will only run for 800 yards? I suspect he will be closer to leading the league than being in the top 20. The biggest thing the spread west coast will do is open up the running game in the middle of the field. Hunt had 1327 yards in this spread offense. He had 53 receptions. So if Howard has 40 as a average pass catcher, do you really think his rushing yards will only be 800 yards? No way. In the last two years he had 23 and 29 receptions. A user friendly offense, even if his reception rate is low .  Hunt had a catch rate of 84%, Howards was 72%. Lets say he improves to 78%, how much of a difference will that make in his rushing yards? I think not much. 

Yep-I think it’ll be closer to 800 because Howard will be on the sideline more.   Yes Howard had 23 receptions last year, but it was a 5.4 average.  His degree of difficulty on receptions were minimal because we didn’t trust him.  He’s also not very good running off the edge.  Don’t get me wrong, he’s a great power runner, but Pace wants guys he can move all over the field.  

Benny Cunningham’s more of an ideal Pace guy because of his versatility as he had 240 receiving yards on 20 receptions.  I’m sure Pace find lots of different ways to utilize Cohen.  

Assuming we keep Howard, I see us using him the way the Eagles used Lafayette Blount.  He rushed for 766 yards with only 8 catches.  Then mixed in guys like Jay Ajai, Wendell Smallwood,  and would have used Sproles a bunch if he hadn’t gotten hurt. 

 

[lemonej]

I believe Howard is who he is. No other great back in Bears' history had to learn how to catch out of the backfield when they got here and if someone gives you an offer that is reasonable then it should be considered. This thread is based on the rumor of a day 3 pick that could be used to get a top pick. Why is that hard to imagine since this is smoke screen time.

[Stinger226]

It is not like he is learning a new language, its just more practice time on catching the ball better. So would you take a 3rd round pick for Howard? that would be stupid and we are not getting any first round picks. Your dreaming. Hunt had a catch rate of 87%, Howards was 72%. It is not like he caught 1 out of 3. He is not terrible at it.

[lemonej]

15 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

It is not like he is learning a new language, its just more practice time on catching the ball better. So would you take a 3rd round pick for Howard? that would be stupid and we are not getting any first round picks. Your dreaming. Hunt had a catch rate of 87%, Howards was 72%. It is not like he caught 1 out of 3. He is not terrible at it.

Okay I'll bite. Howard transferred from UAB to Indiana because of the football program being dropped at UAB. WTBS isn't Tevin Coleman a former Hoosier RB? Why is this rb so versatile and Howard not? He was in the same program but doesn't possess the same skills. Why is that? Its because he is a one trick pony. Yes he is a great runner and an underrated blocker( why he was on the field on 3rd downs regardless of hands) but, he is not (taking the HOF RBs of this franchise out of the equation)Raymont Harris, Anthony "A Train" Thomas,Thomas Jones or Matt Forte. These are all backs that played for this team and could at least  execute a screen. If the ball goes in Howard's direction it is not a given that he will catch it.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Lemon, the fact of the matter is; sure he may be a ‘one trick pony’ but he’s good at that trick.  He’s managed 1,000 yards in each of his two seasons in a ‘ho hum’ one dimensional offense.  Trading him away to HOPE to get a player that might be as good as he is asking for trouble.

[Stinger226]

You make it sound like he is worthless as a pass catching RB, it is simply not the case. As you will see this year, he will garner 1200 yards and 40 catches. See me at the end of the season to eat crow.

[bowlingtwig]

This is all dumb if you ask me. All of the outrage is over nothing if you ask me. Howard ain't going anywhere and I think with the new weapons and a better passing offense will actually open up more running room for Howard