Jordan Howard rumor

[bradjock]

11 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

You make it sound like he is worthless as a pass catching RB, it is simply not the case. As you will see this year, he will garner 1200 yards and 40 catches. See me at the end of the season to eat crow.

He is not a worthless at pass catching but he needs his full attention on the football In order to make the reception.  He’s not a natural receiver and he struggles.  

Even if he can’t catch the ball, he’s still a valuable power runner.   And I REALLY hope you’re right and that I’m eating crow at the end of the season.  That being said, the only reason we’re discussing this is because there have been 2 rumors circulating that we were trying to trade him.  Either those rumors were false or we really don’t feel like he’s a good fit for our system.    

It’s my opinion that we’d like to trade him but we’re not finding the value we want so he’ll likely stay.  

[BearFan2000]

Personally I don’t think his issues with pass catching are lack of ability, so much as they are lapses in focus or concentration. That can be corrected with good coaching and practice. I’m sure Howard knows it something he’s got to work on and I’m sure it’s something Nagy will want him to work on.  

[AZ54]

16 hours ago, bradjock said:

He is not a worthless at pass catching but he needs his full attention on the football In order to make the reception.  He’s not a natural receiver and he struggles.  

Even if he can’t catch the ball, he’s still a valuable power runner.   And I REALLY hope you’re right and that I’m eating crow at the end of the season.  That being said, the only reason we’re discussing this is because there have been 2 rumors circulating that we were trying to trade him.  Either those rumors were false or we really don’t feel like he’s a good fit for our system.    

It’s my opinion that we’d like to trade him but we’re not finding the value we want so he’ll likely stay.  

Howard is not a receiver who catches well while he's running.  Most of his receptions are when he runs out and stops to look back at the QB.  We can go to the 2017 highlights to see his big catches from last year.  I can save you some time by telling you there isn't one.  I'd love add Rashaad Penny to our RB group.  His highlights, in addition to KRs for TDs, and PRs, adds catches down field like the ones at the 5:00 mark, 8:00 mark, 8:30,  and again at 9:50.   If there is a trade to be made with the Giants it might not be Rd 1.  I could see the Giants giving us their 3rd Rd pick for Howard plus we swap picks in the 2nd Rd.  For a 3rd Rd pick the Giants get a proven 1000 yard rusher, one who can finish in the red zone.  That's talent they won't be assured of finding in Rd 3.   

For the Bears Pace can grab Penny in Rd 2, then in the 3rd have options of WR St. Brown, OC Ragnow,  OT Tyrell Crosby could still be on the board,  CB Anthony Averette.  

 

[Stinger226]

R. Penny might end up being a good RB in the league but one of his weaknesses is his pass route running. 42 receptions in his career. . I have read several scouting reports on him and several comments about that, about his lack of ability to break tackles. In his highlight film, there is only one run where he extended the ball after contact. Will not do well running up the middle in the NFL. He runs through all arm tackles in the film.

Weaknesses

• High-cut, upright runner
• Despite urgency as a runner, won't break many quality tackle attempts
• One-speed runner without a big burst gear to clear first and second level defenders cleanly
• Has modest yards after first contact numbers over the last two seasons
• Can get a little "bounce-happy" with his willingness to try and cut inside runs to the outside once he gets onto second level
• Doesn't always show a feel for the best run lane choices
• Will miss backside, cutback lanes
• May not have the long speed to pull away from tacklers and hit big chunk runs
• Scouts say he may need additional reps to lock-in on the playbook
• Needs to improve route-running to become a more effective pass catcher

03/02/18 - 2018 NFL Combine, Friday: Another Senior Bowl standout -- San Diego State's Rashaad Penny -- also made cents Friday. The 5-foot-11, 224-pound Mountain West Offensive Player of the Year helped quiet critics, clocking a pair of 4.47-second 40-yard-dash times. Penny, who led the nation with 2,248 rushing yards, starred during the Senior Bowl game, leading all running backs with 64 rushing yards and scoring on a 73-yard touchdown reception. That, however, came after a week of practice in which he struggled in pass protection and put the ball on the turf on a couple of occasions. Penny needed a strong workout Friday to reinforce the breakaway ability he showed at San Diego State and in Mobile, Ala., and he delivered, likely cementing himself as a second-round pick. - Rob Rang, NFLDraftScout.com

01/27/18 - RB Rashaad Penny struggled during the week of practice, putting the ball on the ground several times and drawing the wrath of the Houston Texans' coaching staff with a false start. The vision, stutter-step, quick acceleration and soft hands which helped the 5-11, 224-pounder lead the nation in rushing yards in 2017 and earn Mountain West Conference Special Teams Player of the Year the past three seasons showed up Saturday. Penny led all participants in all-purpose yards, highlighted by a 37-yard burst up the middle in the first quarter, and a 73-yard catch-and-run following a pretty little flip pass by Virginia's Kurt Benkert.

01/24/18 - Senior Bowl Wednesday: Just as disconcerting for scouts is the poor play of the 5-11, 224-pound Penny, who galloped for 2,248 yards and 23 touchdowns in 2017 for San Diego State. While scouts remain intrigued by his vision, agility and straight-line speed, Penny has struggled with ball security, putting the ball on the ground at least four times over the first two days of practice, including mishandling returns and fumbling twice. Penny's struggles as a returner are perhaps especially surprising given that he earned Mountain West Special Teams Player of the Year honors in 2017, becoming the first player to earn the award three consecutive years. He scored eight return touchdowns -- seven off kick returns -- in his career. Penny's lack of focus has drawn the ire of the Texans' coaches, who pulled him from the lineup during scrimmaging after a false start. Penny appeared to get an early jump on another play late in Tuesday's practice, as well. - Rob Rang, NFLDraftScout.com   He looks good in his highlight film, but I have yet to find a college player that does'nt.

[AZ54]

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

R. Penny might end up being a good RB in the league but one of his weaknesses is his pass route running. 42 receptions in his career. . I have read several scouting reports on him and several comments about that, about his lack of ability to break tackles. In his highlight film, there is only one run where he extended the ball after contact. Will not do well running up the middle in the NFL. He runs through all arm tackles in the film.

Weaknesses

• High-cut, upright runner
• Despite urgency as a runner, won't break many quality tackle attempts
• One-speed runner without a big burst gear to clear first and second level defenders cleanly
• Has modest yards after first contact numbers over the last two seasons
• Can get a little "bounce-happy" with his willingness to try and cut inside runs to the outside once he gets onto second level
• Doesn't always show a feel for the best run lane choices
• Will miss backside, cutback lanes
• May not have the long speed to pull away from tacklers and hit big chunk runs
• Scouts say he may need additional reps to lock-in on the playbook
• Needs to improve route-running to become a more effective pass catcher

03/02/18 - 2018 NFL Combine, Friday: Another Senior Bowl standout -- San Diego State's Rashaad Penny -- also made cents Friday. The 5-foot-11, 224-pound Mountain West Offensive Player of the Year helped quiet critics, clocking a pair of 4.47-second 40-yard-dash times. Penny, who led the nation with 2,248 rushing yards, starred during the Senior Bowl game, leading all running backs with 64 rushing yards and scoring on a 73-yard touchdown reception. That, however, came after a week of practice in which he struggled in pass protection and put the ball on the turf on a couple of occasions. Penny needed a strong workout Friday to reinforce the breakaway ability he showed at San Diego State and in Mobile, Ala., and he delivered, likely cementing himself as a second-round pick. - Rob Rang, NFLDraftScout.com

01/27/18 - RB Rashaad Penny struggled during the week of practice, putting the ball on the ground several times and drawing the wrath of the Houston Texans' coaching staff with a false start. The vision, stutter-step, quick acceleration and soft hands which helped the 5-11, 224-pounder lead the nation in rushing yards in 2017 and earn Mountain West Conference Special Teams Player of the Year the past three seasons showed up Saturday. Penny led all participants in all-purpose yards, highlighted by a 37-yard burst up the middle in the first quarter, and a 73-yard catch-and-run following a pretty little flip pass by Virginia's Kurt Benkert.

01/24/18 - Senior Bowl Wednesday: Just as disconcerting for scouts is the poor play of the 5-11, 224-pound Penny, who galloped for 2,248 yards and 23 touchdowns in 2017 for San Diego State. While scouts remain intrigued by his vision, agility and straight-line speed, Penny has struggled with ball security, putting the ball on the ground at least four times over the first two days of practice, including mishandling returns and fumbling twice. Penny's struggles as a returner are perhaps especially surprising given that he earned Mountain West Special Teams Player of the Year honors in 2017, becoming the first player to earn the award three consecutive years. He scored eight return touchdowns -- seven off kick returns -- in his career. Penny's lack of focus has drawn the ire of the Texans' coaches, who pulled him from the lineup during scrimmaging after a false start. Penny appeared to get an early jump on another play late in Tuesday's practice, as well. - Rob Rang, NFLDraftScout.com   He looks good in his highlight film, but I have yet to find a college player that does'nt.

I agree he's not perfect but offers a lot of versatility.  I link to highlights films simply because it's easier to compare the best of each RB and it made the point that Howard had zero receiving highlights downfield.  I prefer to watch full game film to see the bad plays as well as the good to really evaluate a player, and have done that on Penny.  He was better than I expected and since we're moving to more of a spread system I think he'll fit in well even on the inside runs.  I also think Jordan Howard will be very productive running in the new offense.  That will make play  action very effective which bodes well for a team that wants to start using RPOs but a LB won't worry about him if he doesn't stay in to pass protect.

 I'm of the view that we don't need to find a replacement for Howard and there are many other positions where we could upgrade that would help the team more overall.  Yet, we don't know how Nagy feels about it and how the lack of a good receiving threat out of the backfield could, or could not, limit the offense.  It became clear how important he felt having a good receiving TE was when we spent all that money on Trey Burton.   Yes, I'd like to add Penny to the backfield, not so hot on moving on from Howard but I'd accept and understand it if it happens.  

As far as route running almost all college RBs will have to learn this because few do much of it.  Not much different from the QBs so often coming from spread offenses.  and we might as well toss in all the WRs and Oline coming from spread offenses too.  Even Saquon Barkley ran a very simple route package at Penn St.  That whole offense at Penn St. looked like something you see in high school.   We just have to see if the ability is there and then assume our coaches can refine them.  

[lemonej]

The RB that Nagy just worked with in KC was Kareem Hunt a rookie from a mid major conference who has very good receiving skills and allows his team to use the same personnel on all downs. Right now that is not the type of back Howard is. If we follow the history of most west coast style offenses, backs with pass catching ability are a staple. The check down pass is one of the things that is need to help this style of offense succeed and it's not guaranteed that Howard would make that work with his current skill set.

[Stinger226]

Good coaches adapt to the players they have. Hunt was a good pass catcher, but KC did not have a Cohen type of RB in the mix.. He has lots of flexibility in his offense to include all of his weapons and make it work. Howard is not the idea fit but that does not mean he will not succeed. Progression under Fox was not very suitable but learning under Nagy should show better results. I refer back to stats, he is not terrible at pass catching but is not great. It will be fine. He is going to be our bell cow, if he fails , he will be replaced but assuming the worst not is misguided. 

[lemonej]

9 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

Good coaches adapt to the players they have. Hunt was a good pass catcher, but KC did not have a Cohen type of RB in the mix.. He has lots of flexibility in his offense to include all of his weapons and make it work. Howard is not the idea fit but that does not mean he will not succeed. Progression under Fox was not very suitable but learning under Nagy should show better results. I refer back to stats, he is not terrible at pass catching but is not great. It will be fine. He is going to be our bell cow, if he fails , he will be replaced but assuming the worst not is misguided. 

" He is not terrible at pass catching but is not great." Re read that yourself and tell me what that means. To me that sounds like mediocre which is not my take, I say he is limited.

[Stinger226]

I would agree, mediocre would work, but how much will that affect his playing time? He is a excellent runner, so if he has 40 catches at a 75% drop rate, he is doable. How many complete RBs are in the league right now? Out of the 10 RBs that had over 1000 yards last year, 6 had better catch rates than Howard. Gurley's catch rate was 73.6% and Howard's was 71.9%. Elliot, Gordon and Fournette had worse catch rates, so I guess they all suck as RBs.