NFL Draft Day 3 Thread

[BearFan PHX]

2 minutes ago, ScottBGKY said:

I coached Iggy in middle school. Definitely looks like we were after a special teams ace. Really good kid. Hope he makes an impact. 

wow that's awesome!

[ASHKUM BEAR]

19 minutes ago, adam said:

Kylie Fitts, Edge, from Utah. If he can stay healthy, he should be able to contribute. 11.5 sacks and 14 TFL in only 22 games.

Ankle and foot is his injury history. Maybe a year of NFL work can get the strength built up and he can become a force. He has intangibles to be a good player but was restricted with injury. I dont see him starting right away, so look for the Bears to bring in Houston or even Willie Young. 

[Connorbear]

34 minutes ago, ScottBGKY said:

I coached Iggy in middle school. Definitely looks like we were after a special teams ace. Really good kid. Hope he makes an impact. 

Very cool.  Will be rooting for him as always. 

Peace

[ASHKUM BEAR]

With the 7th, the Bears select Javon Wims WR Georgia. I have been wanting him for a long time. They got a slot and Wynn who will become a solid outside WR. Love this pick the most right now. Think he can be special

[BearFan PHX]

1 minute ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

With the 7th, the Bears select Javon Wims WR Georgia. I have been wanting him for a long time. They got a slot and Wynn who will become a solid outside WR. Love this pick the most right now. Think he can be special

Id never heard of him, good to hear that he was on your radar before the draft. It's hard to get excited about 7th round picks, but your endorsement helps.

[AZ54]

I just see some surprises today.  I think all the picks are good players but there isn't an Eddie Jackson type with year one starter potential. 

Iggy looks like a lesser version of Roquan with good special teams potential early in his career.  I'd say Kwit sticks as the slow ILB on the roster and we say goodbye to Timu and the often-out-of-position Anderson.   Might be some starter potential down the road.  Seeing how things played out in Rd 4 I'd have put money down that we take either Josh Sweat or Dorance Armstrong or even Shaqem Griffin with this pick.  

Bilal Nichols fits the DE profile physically but I don't see much more than depth player potential in him.   I doubt he even makes the 53-man roster this year.   He was was mis-cast as a NT in that defense last year but likely was their best option there.  He has a lot of work to do.  

OLB Kylie Fitts has the upside to be a solid rotation player at OLB this year and if he can stay healthy I think he could develop into a starter years down the road.  This game he shows a little of everything.

       

[ASHKUM BEAR]

10 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

I just see some surprises today.  I think all the picks are good players but there isn't an Eddie Jackson type with year one starter potential. 

Iggy looks like a lesser version of Roquan with good special teams potential early in his career.  I'd say Kwit sticks as the slow ILB on the roster and we say goodbye to Timu and the often-out-of-position Anderson.   Might be some starter potential down the road.  Seeing how things played out in Rd 4 I'd have put money down that we take either Josh Sweat or Dorance Armstrong or even Shaqem Griffin with this pick.  

Bilal Nichols fits the DE profile physically but I don't see much more than depth player potential in him.   I doubt he even makes the 53-man roster this year.   He was was mis-cast as a NT in that defense last year but likely was their best option there.  He has a lot of work to do.  

OLB Kylie Fitts has the upside to be a solid rotation player at OLB this year and if he can stay healthy I think he could develop into a starter years down the road.  This game he shows a little of everything.

       

I think you got them right. You really dont want to hit rd 4 or after hoping for starters. The Bears had one spot to fill at OLB imo, but if you don't address rd 1 or 2 how can you expect them to be NFL ready year 1.  Fitts can develop and maybe year two takes over for Lynch and Houston/FA brought in. I wanted a OT to develop to replace Massey, guess that is a hot prospect next year now. This team is nearing completion and drafts will become trading down and drafting kids to bring along instead of bringing in to start.

[Stinger226]

Some of these seem as odd picks with known names on the board, but they due indepth research on them, so somebody liked them, they just didnt draw names out of a hat. I also heard that Kwait will be moving to the outside.

[CrackerDog]

38 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

With the 7th, the Bears select Javon Wims WR Georgia. I have been wanting him for a long time. They got a slot and Wynn who will become a solid outside WR. Love this pick the most right now. Think he can be special

I think they got a steal here.  

[Alaskan Grizzly]

13 minutes ago, CrackerDog said:

I think they got a steal here.  

RE: Javon Wins 

After the Smith pick this is my second favorite choice in the draft. On paper looks great. 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

55 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

With the 7th, the Bears select Javon Wims WR Georgia. I have been wanting him for a long time. They got a slot and Wynn who will become a solid outside WR. Love this pick the most right now. Think he can be special

What do you know about him?  I’ll do some reading up but curious why he was available so late. 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

1 hour ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

What do you know about him?  I’ll do some reading up but curious why he was available so late. 

He was clutch, able to come down with throws in big games. Ridley's brother was there top target, but Wims was what you want to compliment. A reliable guy who works under the shadows and does more than credit is given. Those guys work hard to not be recognized. 

 

 

[jason]

4 hours ago, adam said:

IMO I would rather throw darts at CB or Edge compared to ILB and DT.

Hopefully Pace autocorrects and goes Duke Ejiofor, DE, Wake Forest or Jeff Holland, DE, Auburn in the 6th.

I definitely agree with this. 

[jason]

4 hours ago, CrackerDog said:

Jason definitely won’t agree.  

I don’t think anyone on a message board knows more about coaching defense than Fangio, or most others that are in the NFL for that matter. But their presence in the NFL doesn’t make them experts at picking talent. They are experts, or are supposed to be experts, at coaching. The best ever (Polian) said even the NFL folks are 50/50 at best when drafting.

Furthermore, Fangio has been here three years and only last year was the D good.

He definitely knows who he wants for his system more, but that doesn’t mean the collective opinion here is necessarily any worse at picking talent. And until the Bears have sustained success, the “they’re in the NFL and know more”- line is BS. After all, that same line was used when we had the last 20+ years of coaches and horrible draft picks. It’s nearly unfathomable to think we could have done much worse over that stretch. It kills me how people will use that line while a guy is in chicago, then dog the dude and call him a moron when he gets fired. The guy can’t be an amazing talent evaluator and coach while in Chicago and simultaneously be incompetent when he gets canned. 

Last but not least, if someone had the time It would be easy to go back through this board’s history and see many, many times when we were right and the coaches/GM were wrong. Probably hundreds of times among all of us.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Preach Brother Jason!!

Although I’d argue that Fangio had the defense going in the right direction two years ago.  Wasn’t it ranked top 10 that year?  Considering the mess he inherited AND the change from 4-3, I’d say he’s done pretty dang good.  

And you’re right in that collectively our fellow posters are as good (if not better) MOST times at evaluating talent than many “experts”. 

[BearFan PHX]

::rolling eyes::

[ASHKUM BEAR]

1 hour ago, jason said:

I don’t think anyone on a message board knows more about coaching defense than Fangio, or most others that are in the NFL for that matter. But their presence in the NFL doesn’t make them experts at picking talent. They are experts, or are supposed to be experts, at coaching. The best ever (Polian) said even the NFL folks are 50/50 at best when drafting.

Furthermore, Fangio has been here three years and only last year was the D good.

He definitely knows who he wants for his system more, but that doesn’t mean the collective opinion here is necessarily any worse at picking talent. And until the Bears have sustained success, the “they’re in the NFL and know more”- line is BS. After all, that same line was used when we had the last 20+ years of coaches and horrible draft picks. It’s nearly unfathomable to think we could have done much worse over that stretch. It kills me how people will use that line while a guy is in chicago, then dog the dude and call him a moron when he gets fired. The guy can’t be an amazing talent evaluator and coach while in Chicago and simultaneously be incompetent when he gets canned. 

Last but not least, if someone had the time It would be easy to go back through this board’s history and see many, many times when we were right and the coaches/GM were wrong. Probably hundreds of times among all of us.

And if we did a this is my final type mock draft and held each other accountable, can we sustain a mutual Bear board friendship?  It would be a fun exercise.  I know I had different thoughts on who we ended up with and hate a few picks, but give the benefit of doubt. I never kept track on players from previous years except if one did well. Start one next year, I will participate

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

5 hours ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

He was clutch, able to come down with throws in big games. Ridley's brother was there top target, but Wims was what you want to compliment. A reliable guy who works under the shadows and does more than credit is given. Those guys work hard to not be recognized. 

 

 

Apparently all he did was after transfer from JuCo he led the Bulldogs in Rec, TDs and rec yards(?) last year. Despite, as you point out, not being the primary receiver.  Nice!!!  Thanks for the feedback.  

[Stinger226]

10 hours ago, jason said:

I don’t think anyone on a message board knows more about coaching defense than Fangio, or most others that are in the NFL for that matter. But their presence in the NFL doesn’t make them experts at picking talent. They are experts, or are supposed to be experts, at coaching. The best ever (Polian) said even the NFL folks are 50/50 at best when drafting.

Furthermore, Fangio has been here three years and only last year was the D good.

He definitely knows who he wants for his system more, but that doesn’t mean the collective opinion here is necessarily any worse at picking talent. And until the Bears have sustained success, the “they’re in the NFL and know more”- line is BS. After all, that same line was used when we had the last 20+ years of coaches and horrible draft picks. It’s nearly unfathomable to think we could have done much worse over that stretch. It kills me how people will use that line while a guy is in chicago, then dog the dude and call him a moron when he gets fired. The guy can’t be an amazing talent evaluator and coach while in Chicago and simultaneously be incompetent when he gets canned. 

Last but not least, if someone had the time It would be easy to go back through this board’s history and see many, many times when we were right and the coaches/GM were wrong. Probably hundreds of times among all of us.

seriously, your saying Fangio isnt any better at judging talent than the typical fan? I want some of what your drinking. Yes the experts are at 50/50 but they know what players fit their systems better, they interview the players, they spend time with them looking at everything about them. We read what other people say and that makes us on par with coaches and GMs. OF course they only get it right 50% of the time but they have more information than we do to make those decisions. It just shows you how hard it is to judge players and their success at the NFL level. Medicals come into play that we sometimes do not have information on. Attitudes, are difficult to tell in stories. 

It is not even close to being some fans are as smart.We guess right sometimes, but forget all the ones we suggest that flop. 

[BearFan PHX]

2 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

seriously, your saying Fangio isnt any better at judging talent than the typical fan? I want some of what your drinking. Yes the experts are at 50/50 but they know what players fit their systems better, they interview the players, they spend time with them looking at everything about them. We read what other people say and that makes us on par with coaches and GMs. OF course they only get it right 50% of the time but they have more information than we do to make those decisions. It just shows you how hard it is to judge players and their success at the NFL level. Medicals come into play that we sometimes do not have information on. Attitudes, are difficult to tell in stories. 

It is not even close to being some fans are as smart.We guess right sometimes, but forget all the ones we suggest that flop. 

of course this is correct. anything else is just incredible hollow ego.

[AZ54]

16 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

seriously, your saying Fangio isnt any better at judging talent than the typical fan? I want some of what your drinking. Yes the experts are at 50/50 but they know what players fit their systems better, they interview the players, they spend time with them looking at everything about them. We read what other people say and that makes us on par with coaches and GMs. OF course they only get it right 50% of the time but they have more information than we do to make those decisions. It just shows you how hard it is to judge players and their success at the NFL level. Medicals come into play that we sometimes do not have information on. Attitudes, are difficult to tell in stories. 

It is not even close to being some fans are as smart.We guess right sometimes, but forget all the ones we suggest that flop. 

I'm not saying I or anyone else is as good as Fangio, or Pace, but I agree with Jason's point that teams make bad picks all the time and IMO some are so obvious even the fans can see them the day of the draft.  Phil Emery took that DT who jumped out of the pool but had very little production, even in his highlight films.  He took Brock Vereen, a safety who even I could see didn't play physical in college, and he really didn't standout athletically either.  That certainly didn't change in the NFL.  He drafted one DB who was injured so often he had no highlight film. 

Others that were obvious IMO to fans:  Jets Christian Hackenberg who couldn't even throw accurately at the Combine with nobody in his face.  Jake Locker, who was never accurate in college at 8th overall.  I'll state right now that I think Cleveland taking Denzel Ward #4 overall was big mistake that will be more obvious in 3 years when we see the careers of the players drafted afterward, including Roquan Smith.  Bradley Chubb alone will make it obvious in the first 4 games.  

As a bit of a hobby I've been kicking this draft stuff with y'all for about a decade or more.  I've learned some things about what to look for from everyone's comments, and after seeing how players transition to the NFL.  That includes learning from Angelo's and Emery's mistakes, as well as other teams (i.e. Cards Robert Nkemdiche), and at the top of the list my mistakes.  I thought Will Sutton and Kadeem Carey would both be more productive in the NFL as rotational players.  That honeymoon ended quickly.  I learned from that because with Sutton being short he didn't have the length needed to get off blocks in the NFL, nor did he have enough quickness/strength to get around them.  While I loved watching him run the ball, Carey just didn't have enough speed to be a starter, and as a backup he couldn't really contribute much on special teams.  That depth matters a lot when injuries hit a team.    

10-15 years ago it was hard for fans to really scout unless you watched a lot of college football.  We did have highlight videos but those really don't give a good impression of overall skills and effort of a player.  These days there is a cottage industry of film cut ups and player evaluations all over Youtube.  It's not hard to see the good and bad plays, or how a player might fit certain schemes and not others.  In this aspect,.on the field performance, I think these days fans who are doing research can have a pretty good idea of a lot of players' abilities.  Get down to Day 3 prospects and it's harder to find that game film but overall I don't think fans are "guessing" as much these days. 

We don't know the character of the players and we don't have the medical reports.   We also don't necessarily have those things about our own players (i.e. Cam Meredith) so we can't really know the team's future plans.  We also don't know some things like the college coaching and what players were asked to do.  We can somewhat understand under-performing players (Lorenzo Carter) who were coached by Mel Tucker, yet even in that environment Roquan Smith shined.  How will Smith do under Fangio?  Here is where I'm fine to defer to Pace and Fangio.  I liked Tremaine Edmunds over Roquan Smith.  Both are very good players with somewhat different skillsets.  I have no doubt it was character, leadership, and football knowledge that made Smith standout to Fangio and Pace.  Vic spent a full day with Smith going over film and talking defense, probably some individual workout stuff too.  I assume he did the same with Edmunds.   I'll be watching how the careers of both players unfold over the next few years.  

 

[Stinger226]

I think that choosing who succeeds and doesnt is such a difficult thing to do no matter what information you have, that is why they are 50/50 at it. My point is they have more information to go by . We read stuff, look at tape and and make intelligent opinions but its not comparable. I always look at production, desire, and worth ethic to decide who I think will do well. I just dont have privy to the same information the experts do. I prefer a instinctive football player to a physical freak. The perfect example is Edmunds and Smith. Edumunds is a freak and if he grows with a coach should have a better career than Smith if you look at measurables but 3 things stick out to me that I am not sure Edumunds will ever have, instincts and leadership qualities. The desire to win. It is hard to determine that from our prospective. They have a better chance of reading those signs than us. I think if fans had the same information I am sure some would excel at doing a better job than some NFL personal. We are just not in the same situation as them. 

When people like Brady, Wilson, slip in drafts, you know the system is flawed for everybody.

[BearFan PHX]

4 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

I think that choosing who succeeds and doesnt is such a difficult thing to do no matter what information you have, that is why they are 50/50 at it. My point is they have more information to go by . We read stuff, look at tape and and make intelligent opinions but its not comparable. I always look at production, desire, and worth ethic to decide who I think will do well. I just dont have privy to the same information the experts do. I prefer a instinctive football player to a physical freak. The perfect example is Edmunds and Smith. Edumunds is a freak and if he grows with a coach should have a better career than Smith if you look at measurables but 3 things stick out to me that I am not sure Edumunds will ever have, instincts and leadership qualities. The desire to win. It is hard to determine that from our prospective. They have a better chance of reading those signs than us. I think if fans had the same information I am sure some would excel at doing a better job than some NFL personal. We are just not in the same situation as them. 

When people like Brady, Wilson, slip in drafts, you know the system is flawed for everybody.

Right.

Since so many drafted players flame out in the NFL, predicting someone will suck and then having them suck does NOT mean that you know more than GMs.

To prove that, you'd need to list players you DO want to draft, only one in every round, who was available at your pick, and then follow to see how they progressed. That would be a fairer test.

 

[jason]

On 4/28/2018 at 8:59 PM, ASHKUM BEAR said:

And if we did a this is my final type mock draft and held each other accountable, can we sustain a mutual Bear board friendship?  It would be a fun exercise.  I know I had different thoughts on who we ended up with and hate a few picks, but give the benefit of doubt. I never kept track on players from previous years except if one did well. Start one next year, I will participate

 

I could easily maintain the friendship. Typing loses lots of the interaction, and at our core we are all devoted Bears fans. We follow the team because we love them. Those picking for the team do so because it's their current job, or even a stepping stone for their ideal job. We will always love the Bears and have the Bears best long term interest in mind.

[jason]

On 4/29/2018 at 6:22 AM, Stinger226 said:

seriously, your saying Fangio isnt any better at judging talent than the typical fan? I want some of what your drinking. Yes the experts are at 50/50 but they know what players fit their systems better, they interview the players, they spend time with them looking at everything about them. We read what other people say and that makes us on par with coaches and GMs. OF course they only get it right 50% of the time but they have more information than we do to make those decisions. It just shows you how hard it is to judge players and their success at the NFL level. Medicals come into play that we sometimes do not have information on. Attitudes, are difficult to tell in stories. 

It is not even close to being some fans are as smart.We guess right sometimes, but forget all the ones we suggest that flop. 

What I'm saying is, these guys are human as well. They have more resources at their disposal, but they are still prone to the same prejudices we have. Tice proved that when he got a boner after Jamarcus Webb chipped his tooth. And because of all that, they don't have a very high success rate. They're put on a pedestal because they chose a career path we probably all wish we had chosen years and years ago, but they started out just like everyone else. They were fans of football.

It's entirely possible, in fact even probable given the failure rate, they are overwhelmed by the information and it muddies the waters. It clouds their vision. What's the saying? Can't see the forest for the trees?