Ryan Nall next Cohen?

[ASHKUM BEAR]

Not saying they are the same or he is as good, but Nall has vision and sneaky speed. I think he will become a weapon for the Bears. I am surprised he wasn't drafted and glad he chose us. He must have seen the fit also. Below is a clip of him in action.

 

[Stinger226]

He looks good in his highlight films but I think everybody does.  l like him but more as a power runner. I think the only way he sticks if he can take over the fullback position. That would be predicated on him being a good blocker of which  I do not know. He could make the practice squad easily.

[Connorbear]

I think he makes the practice squad at the very least. 

Peace

 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

3 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

He looks good in his highlight films but I think everybody does.  l like him but more as a power runner. I think the only way he sticks if he can take over the fullback position. That would be predicated on him being a good blocker of which  I do not know. He could make the practice squad easily.

He is more elusive, than a run you over back. He might fit as a full back/H-back but don't count him out at RB.  He is big, but Steven Jackson or Derek Henry was comparable with weight and speed too. I hope he makes the 53, I see him making big plays with the type of offense Nagy/Helfrich bring.  If they keep a FB, he can block but he is much more dangerous with the ball.

[adam]

If he can catch, he might stick, but all our RB's will need to be able to catch out of the backfield.

[BearFan PHX]

OK, so first off I have been a big fan of Howard. I love his heart, his vision and the way he finishes his runs.

But I wonder if this isn't his one year audition as a piece of Nagy and Helfrich's offense.

There was all that business about trading him before the draft too. Even if it was nonsense, it's a sign that people see that he might not fit with the new scheme.

Now that said, he's a hell of a runner, and has the possibility of greatness in him. His numbers have been very good, and on a winning team he could really get some attention.

So I think they see his obvious skills, and may have reservations about his pass catching abilities, and I somehow think he will have this year to show them how he fits. Maybe he will catch better than expected, or maybe he will run so hard, he will make them accept lesser hands.

But I think this is kind of like a contract year for Howard. And I think Nall isn't the next cohen, I think he's competition for Howard, who WOULD have value in a trade next year, if they decide he isn't the right fit.

I think they, and certainly I, are giving him the benefit of this season to show how he fits. If he excels, I'll be thrilled. If not, then the Nall signing makes a lot of sense as insurance.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

Nall is a hard one to figure out. He might be best as a Trey Burton clone as H back/TE, but this kid can play RB too.  Him and Cohen can add a lot of mystery to an offense by moving to RB or slot etc. Nall was one of the most elusive backs in college by causing missed tackles. I think Helfrich has a great idea on how to use him seeing him personally play.  

[AZ54]

I think he provides serious competition for FB Michael Burton and TE Braunecker.  He can run some routes and catch which MBurton is not that adept at.  How well he can block will be the biggest question but he has the size for it.  In any case that blocking role is a bit less of a preference as we move to more of a spread offense.  Nall's versatility means he could play in the H-back role which slots him in to backup TE Trey Burton.   In fact he was recruited to Oregon St. to play the H-back role but injuries pushed him to fill in at RB.    Trey is 6'3" and 235lbs.   Nall 6'2" and 232lbs.  Burton's draft profile listed him at 224lbs so he's bulked up since entering the NFL.  

Comparing combine numbers:   

40yd:   Nall 4.58s   TBurton  4.62s    Braun 4.73s     MBurton  4.74s 

3-cone:  Nall  6.95s,  TBurton  7.14s   Braun 6.90s      MBurton  7.2s   

20yd shuttle:  Nall  4.16s,  TBurton 4.32s   Braun 4.2s   MBurton  4.34s

Clearly he fits the athletic profile of the role we signed Trey Burton to fill, and probably is a little more agile.  We just spent $6mil/yr on Trey Burton and as a UDFA wondering who has a role he fits, that had to get Nall's attention.   He is not nearly as quick footed as Howard but if he's the FB/4th RB/H-back backup then you've got some real value at the bottom of the roster.   He should be able to handle special teams coverage as well.  

[Stinger226]

I think we need to take a step back before we put him in the hall of fame.  He went undrafted and looks like a player on tape but training camp will answer a lot of questions. 

[AZ54]

12 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

I think we need to take a step back before we put him in the hall of fame.  He went undrafted and looks like a player on tape but training camp will answer a lot of questions. 

I put him as competition for the 53rd player on the roster,  Where did you see HoF in that?  

[BearFan PHX]

i agree he is competition and insurance, question being for which role

[Stinger226]

I was being sarcastic because everybody has seemed to jump on his bandwagon over his highlight film. He looks like he might be a player than can make the roster, but someone suggested(not AZ) that in one year we trade Howard as Nall takes over the main carrier role. I hope he does very well and makes it on the roster and takes over the spot Burton has. Has more player ability at the FB spot. He wasn't drafted, does not have great speed, didn't even have the lead role on his college team, just trying to temper my enthusiasm.

[AZ54]

14 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

I was being sarcastic because everybody has seemed to jump on his bandwagon over his highlight film. He looks like he might be a player than can make the roster, but someone suggested(not AZ) that in one year we trade Howard as Nall takes over the main carrier role. I hope he does very well and makes it on the roster and takes over the spot Burton has. Has more player ability at the FB spot. He wasn't drafted, does not have great speed, didn't even have the lead role on his college team, just trying to temper my enthusiasm.

We often under estimate Howard's quickness in part because he's a big man.  

[madlithuanian]

I 100% trust Howard to get me 2 hard yards.  That is something that should not be discounted.  Something Forte couldn't do despite all he could.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

20 hours ago, AZ54 said:

We often under estimate Howard's quickness in part because he's a big man.  

He has proven over the last few years that not only has he got the quickness but patience to wait for the block that he needs.  Which is a key need in a zone blocking scheme. 

4 hours ago, madlithuanian said:

I 100% trust Howard to get me 2 hard yards.  That is something that should not be discounted.  Something Forte couldn't do despite all he could.

Agreed.  He's proven the ability over the course of two years to constantly get at least 1,000 yards.  And that was with a pretty vanilla offense. 

I have a suspicion that for all the razzle-dazzle, Cohen's value will start to wear thin.  Especially with more players similar to his skill set on the roster and defenses getting familiar with his style of play.  Howard is pretty unique in his abilities and keeps on chugging  away despite the familarity.   

[Stinger226]

actually Cohen in Nagy's offense is going to be used more and a lot more productive. There is  no one on the roster that has a similar skill set.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

 There is  no one on the roster that has a similar skill set.

Meh...In just looking at some of the more 'newer' players to the team that could be used in similar situations (slot and/or catching out of backfield)  he's middle of the road when comparing 'measurables'.  Of the players to include Cohen, Miller, Cunningham, Gabriel and Fowler; Cohen only has the edge in height (or lack thereof).  He being 5'6" at the shortest.  Weight wise he's the second lightest at 179# where Gabriel measures at 165#.  In the 40, Cohen was clocked at 4.42 where both Gabriel and Fowler beat him 4.40 and 4.35 respectively.  On the cone drill (used to measure elusiveness and lateral movement) Cohen ran a 7.22 where three other players bested him; Miller, Gabriel and Fowler at 6.65, 6.84 and 7.06 respectively.  Lastly, there has been talk about his 'huge hands' and although I wasn't able to find the measurements of all the players I was able to find his and Miller's.  Cohen's hand size is 10 1/8" where Miller's are 10 5/8". 

HIs 'skill set' is not unique. 

[Stinger226]

What makes him unique is his short area quickness, not all stats prove how a person plays. He put on 10lbs this winter and his stength for a small guy is amazing. You do not have to believe anything I say, but the proof will be in his use in our offense. You can compare Gabriel because of his speed and size but is not even close in strength.

[Mongo3451]

30 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

What makes him unique is his short area quickness, not all stats prove how a person plays. He put on 10lbs this winter and his stength for a small guy is amazing. You do not have to believe anything I say, but the proof will be in his use in our offense. You can compare Gabriel because of his speed and size but is not even close in strength.

Correct. Physical ability is one thing, skill set is another.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

44 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

Correct. Physical ability is one thing, skill set is another.

Ok for the sake of argument, explain to me the differences.  Especially in relation to how this offense will spotlight them or that. 

Stinger even said that Cohen ‘put on 10 lbs this winter’ and thus cannot be compared to a player like Gabriel because he’s not ‘close in strength’.  Is strength a skill set or physical ability? 

And are not the measurables I provided an example of measured skills and abilities?  

[Alaskan Grizzly]

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

What makes him unique is his short area quickness, not all stats prove how a person plays. He put on 10lbs this winter and his stength for a small guy is amazing. You do not have to believe anything I say, but the proof will be in his use in our offense. You can compare Gabriel because of his speed and size but is not even close in strength.

So what you’re saying about him is not only is he shortest of the players I listed, but he’s got better ‘short area quickness’?  Better than other players who were faster in the cone drill and 40 yard dash? 

Before you answer that, do you see him more like a feature back similar to Kareem Hunt in KC or a gadget back like Darren Sproles? 

[Stinger226]

May I suggest you watch game film. If you use stats to compare all players then that would mean that they all would have the same results or play the same. Take a moment and watch film on all the players you suggest are better. You will notice a difference, football intelligence can not be measured in stats. He is a special player, this year you will notice a offense that uses his talent much differently.

[AZ54]

11 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

So what you’re saying about him is not only is he shortest of the players I listed, but he’s got better ‘short area quickness’?  Better than other players who were faster in the cone drill and 40 yard dash? 

Before you answer that, do you see him more like a feature back similar to Kareem Hunt in KC or a gadget back like Darren Sproles? 

I don't even know where that 3-cone time came from.  It doesn't appear he ran that drill at the combine since the time is not listed on their site.  All I know is a lot of elite athletes on an NFL field have a lot of trouble catching him.  That's good enough for me.  

Cohen will never be a feature back, nor will Kareem Hunt be a feature back.   Kareem Hunt may be a starter (for now) but I expect he'll always split his time in the backfield with someone who is faster.  Hunt had a lot of big games early on, against some poor defense too, but after defenses adjusted he settled in as a good RB.  That's what he'll be in the NFL.  

[madlithuanian]

16 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

He has proven over the last few years that not only has he got the quickness but patience to wait for the block that he needs.  Which is a key need in a zone blocking scheme. 

Agreed.  He's proven the ability over the course of two years to constantly get at least 1,000 yards.  And that was with a pretty vanilla offense. 

I have a suspicion that for all the razzle-dazzle, Cohen's value will start to wear thin.  Especially with more players similar to his skill set on the roster and defenses getting familiar with his style of play.  Howard is pretty unique in his abilities and keeps on chugging  away despite the familarity.   

[Alaskan Grizzly]

12 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

I don't even know where that 3-cone time came from.  It doesn't appear he ran that drill at the combine since the time is not listed on their site.  All I know is a lot of elite athletes on an NFL field have a lot of trouble catching him.  That's good enough for me.  

Cohen will never be a feature back, nor will Kareem Hunt be a feature back.   Kareem Hunt may be a starter (for now) but I expect he'll always split his time in the backfield with someone who is faster.  Hunt had a lot of big games early on, against some poor defense too, but after defenses adjusted he settled in as a good RB.  That's what he'll be in the NFL.  

From what I saw his 3 cone drill was from a pro day.  

Ill agree that Cohen could be a decent  back. He was fun to watch last year and similar to Hunt, other teams will figure him out.