AZ54 Posted August 9, 2018 Report Share Posted August 9, 2018 2 hours ago, jason said: Pertinent: https://bearswire.usatoday.com/2018/08/08/roquan-smith-joins-fraternity-of-infamous-chicago-bears-1st-round-holdouts/ It is more pertinent everyday he holds out. I don't know what the hold up is about but at this point I don't even care anymore. If he wanted to be here he'd have been here, even if it meant negotiating face to face with the Bears. If I were in Pace's shoes I'd be silent with my best and final offer already on the table. However, soon that can start turning into saving money and you just look at your losses and write them off and learn from them. In the meantime I''m good with no-Kwiat and Trevathan. I like Iggy too and I think he can turn into a pretty good backup ILB for us now, and a starter down the road, so I look forward to seeing him play in the preseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted August 9, 2018 Report Share Posted August 9, 2018 2 hours ago, jason said: Pertinent: https://bearswire.usatoday.com/2018/08/08/roquan-smith-joins-fraternity-of-infamous-chicago-bears-1st-round-holdouts/ This list is missing Rashan Salaam. I hate every minute of this hold out. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted August 9, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2018 2 hours ago, AZ54 said: It is more pertinent everyday he holds out. I don't know what the hold up is about but at this point I don't even care anymore. If he wanted to be here he'd have been here, even if it meant negotiating face to face with the Bears. If I were in Pace's shoes I'd be silent with my best and final offer already on the table. However, soon that can start turning into saving money and you just look at your losses and write them off and learn from them. In the meantime I''m good with no-Kwiat and Trevathan. I like Iggy too and I think he can turn into a pretty good backup ILB for us now, and a starter down the road, so I look forward to seeing him play in the preseason. Man, I sadly tend to agree... I suppose some blame lies on Pace for not seeing that there could be some issues by virtue of how he handled looking at UCLA and Georgia when he went into college. Although, that said, I'm not sure if it was a big enough blight. It appears so now, but only given what we are seeing now. Also, was there any way to know who his agents were before the draft? If not, then there's nothing Pace could have done. But if he did know it was CAA...maybe he should have taking the Bosa thing into account. Going forward, I'd sure try to avoid players using CAA barring rare exceptions. I have nothing to base my gut feeling on, but I fear he will not sign and go back into the draft next year. I'm ok with that. S&%^ happens. Pace needs to learn from it next draft. We do save cap room and maybe make a play for Mack and give up 2 firsts. Who knows. All I know, is the D should be better even w/o a guy who sin't officially on our team. Just kind of so disappointing about a guy so highly praised for character and "sure thing" when we drafted him, to something that is far from that as of now. I also have huge concerns that even if we get him to sign, the next contract will be an absolute nightmare. Do we want to invest so much in someone that might not be around in 3 years? Yeah, it's still early and he can still prove himself. But right now, I only root for Bears players. He ain't one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted August 9, 2018 Report Share Posted August 9, 2018 46 minutes ago, madlithuanian said: Man, I sadly tend to agree... I suppose some blame lies on Pace for not seeing that there could be some issues by virtue of how he handled looking at UCLA and Georgia when he went into college. Although, that said, I'm not sure if it was a big enough blight. It appears so now, but only given what we are seeing now. Also, was there any way to know who his agents were before the draft? If not, then there's nothing Pace could have done. But if he did know it was CAA...maybe he should have taking the Bosa thing into account. Going forward, I'd sure try to avoid players using CAA barring rare exceptions. I have nothing to base my gut feeling on, but I fear he will not sign and go back into the draft next year. I'm ok with that. S&%^ happens. Pace needs to learn from it next draft. We do save cap room and maybe make a play for Mack and give up 2 firsts. Who knows. All I know, is the D should be better even w/o a guy who sin't officially on our team. Just kind of so disappointing about a guy so highly praised for character and "sure thing" when we drafted him, to something that is far from that as of now. I also have huge concerns that even if we get him to sign, the next contract will be an absolute nightmare. Do we want to invest so much in someone that might not be around in 3 years? Yeah, it's still early and he can still prove himself. But right now, I only root for Bears players. He ain't one. I believe he will sign by the end of August. No way he holds out for the season. He would lose money from this year and there is no way he is drafted in the top 10 next year. My fear is his value to the team will keep decreasing the longer he holds out. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted August 9, 2018 Report Share Posted August 9, 2018 At some point money starts getting taken off the table. My guess that will start happening if he isn't here by the end of next week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted August 10, 2018 Report Share Posted August 10, 2018 On 8/9/2018 at 4:42 PM, Mongo3451 said: At some point money starts getting taken off the table. My guess that will start happening if he isn't here by the end of next week. He is not under contract. So I don't think you can take money off the table since the rookie salary is set. From the Bears perspective, this is silly. How many times will any of these stipulations actually occur? They are willing to give Mike Glennon, Mike freaking Glennon over $18 million, yet don't want wording in a contract that guarantees money they are already projected to pay out? They paid Wheaton, what $5 million, but just because there were no "loss of guaranteed money" clauses in his contract, the money is ok? Also, if they concede eventually, then they are going to look like idiots. It was either give in, or hold firm. If you just hold firm for a month (that will show em!), and then give in, what, are you are going to look like a tough negotiator? At this point, the Bears need to concede or not give in at all. For Roquan, there is no way you can spin this into a positive. He looks bad and looks worse every day. Bears Twitter is on fire, the fanbase is already losing faith in him, and he is nearing Cedric Benson territory. Fans have short memories, but due to the position (ILB) and his high draft status, this may linger much longer. Also, his teammates, though I am sure they support his business decision, would be hard pressed not to feel somewhat let down by his actions. I can see a somewhat cold reception by his teammates if and when he does sign. Lastly, he is a huge injury risk and we have one of the most important games of the year in Week 1. He has missed invaluable reps and time with the team to get on the same sheet of music in terms of calling the defense. You can't get that back. There is no way he will be ready to do that anytime soon. For CAA, I can see this working two ways. They are either going to look really appealing to prospective clients, or really bad to teams that have to deal with them. Though collusion is not legal, teams and execs talk, and I am sure this is something that will come up in the next CBA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted August 11, 2018 Report Share Posted August 11, 2018 CAA had 5 of the top 10 or 12 draft picks. Isn't that collusion on their part since almost all of them held out or where among the last to sign? Pace and the Bears should just hold firm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted August 11, 2018 Report Share Posted August 11, 2018 On 8/10/2018 at 5:55 PM, adam said: He is not under contract. So I don't think you can take money off the table since the rookie salary is set. From the Bears perspective, this is silly. How many times will any of these stipulations actually occur? They are willing to give Mike Glennon, Mike freaking Glennon over $18 million, yet don't want wording in a contract that guarantees money they are already projected to pay out? They paid Wheaton, what $5 million, but just because there were no "loss of guaranteed money" clauses in his contract, the money is ok? Also, if they concede eventually, then they are going to look like idiots. It was either give in, or hold firm. If you just hold firm for a month (that will show em!), and then give in, what, are you are going to look like a tough negotiator? At this point, the Bears need to concede or not give in at all. For Roquan, there is no way you can spin this into a positive. He looks bad and looks worse every day. Bears Twitter is on fire, the fanbase is already losing faith in him, and he is nearing Cedric Benson territory. Fans have short memories, but due to the position (ILB) and his high draft status, this may linger much longer. Also, his teammates, though I am sure they support his business decision, would be hard pressed not to feel somewhat let down by his actions. I can see a somewhat cold reception by his teammates if and when he does sign. Lastly, he is a huge injury risk and we have one of the most important games of the year in Week 1. He has missed invaluable reps and time with the team to get on the same sheet of music in terms of calling the defense. You can't get that back. There is no way he will be ready to do that anytime soon. For CAA, I can see this working two ways. They are either going to look really appealing to prospective clients, or really bad to teams that have to deal with them. Though collusion is not legal, teams and execs talk, and I am sure this is something that will come up in the next CBA. Regarding the comparison of other contracts, it's apples and oranges. Rookie contracts are slotted different from vet contracts. Whether or not the situation comes true is an unknown at this point, but it's a stipulation that is far outside the norm. Furthermore, it sets a slippery slope. Maybe next time a player wants to guarantee his money for getting a substance abuse suspension if it's only specific GNC products? Or some other pill that causes issues or is used as a scapegoat? The team should not negotiate. Bad precedent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted August 11, 2018 Report Share Posted August 11, 2018 I think you can fluctuate the guaranteed portion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted August 13, 2018 Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 This is going to go all the way until the start of the season (when a player actually starts to loose money). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted August 13, 2018 Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 12 minutes ago, DABEARSDABOMB said: This is going to go all the way until the start of the season (when a player actually starts to loose money). Agreed. And his value to the team this year will be severely diminished. It's very unfortunate. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted August 13, 2018 Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 39 minutes ago, Connorbear said: Agreed. And his value to the team this year will be severely diminished. It's very unfortunate. Peace I agree; We can only hope he can end up being so good that he bounces back and can be valuable this year (similar to Bosa in San Diego; that said, I think Bosa is the exception to the rule vs. the norm). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted August 13, 2018 Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 37 minutes ago, DABEARSDABOMB said: I agree; We can only hope he can end up being so good that he bounces back and can be valuable this year (similar to Bosa in San Diego; that said, I think Bosa is the exception to the rule vs. the norm). I have flashbacks to Salaam, Enis, McNown and Benson. All of them held out and all of them ended up being flops for the Bears. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chitownhustla Posted August 13, 2018 Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 50 minutes ago, Connorbear said: I have flashbacks to Salaam, Enis, McNown and Benson. All of them held out and all of them ended up being flops for the Bears. Peace Im shocked this is still going on. Hopefully since he plays Defense and those listed were all Offensive players there will be a different outcome. Can someone confirm this : Holdout started because of two things. 1. Guaranteed money over game play suspensions 2. Guaranteed Money over non football related suspensions (off the field). The Bears have agreed to take out or add protection to any on field game suspensions when it comes to money. Its now down to the off the field suspensions that he wants protected from. Did I summarize that correctly or is there more going on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted August 13, 2018 Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 I believe #2 is actually guaranteed money over on field suspensions not related to a play. Example - players slugs a referee. Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chitownhustla Posted August 13, 2018 Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 11 minutes ago, Connorbear said: I believe #2 is actually guaranteed money over on field suspensions not related to a play. Example - players slugs a referee. Peace OK, that makes more sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50england50 Posted August 13, 2018 Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 As per NFL.COM looks like the hold out is dismally over. Hallelujah hopefully we get to see him in pressing game 4 before the season start. Don’t think we will see him in game 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted August 13, 2018 Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 Deal is done today, will not play this week, hopefully some next week, surely week 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madlithuanian Posted August 13, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Stinger226 said: Deal is done today, will not play this week, hopefully some next week, surely week 5. Relief... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted August 13, 2018 Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 4 hours ago, DABEARSDABOMB said: This is going to go all the way until the start of the season (when a player actually starts to loose money). Shit...if I knew me making a post like this would spur Smith to sign...I would have made it a month ago haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connorbear Posted August 13, 2018 Report Share Posted August 13, 2018 9 minutes ago, DABEARSDABOMB said: Shit...if I knew me making a post like this would spur Smith to sign...I would have made it a month ago haha. Exactly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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