Bellamy

[FlyfishingBear]

Why the hell can we not find a better option than Josh Bellamy on the field.  I've hated him since he dropped two dozen (☺) passes in one game a few years ago,  yet he's still here, messing up plays.  

[Bears4Ever_34]

It's so fitting that Kevin White, the guy Matt Nagy has benched in favor of the special teamer Josh Bellamy, almost tied up the game with a big-time catch near the goal line in the final seconds. 

Favoring Josh Bellamy over Kevin White is so indefensible it makes my head hurt. I get that White isn't the guy the Bears projected him to be coming out of the draft, but the guy can still run down the field and make contested catches in traffic. He doesn't have to run amazing routes, he just has to run really freakin fast and make plays down the field. 

Infuriating. I sure as hell hope those last few plays White made may change the coach's mind about the depth chart going into the next few games. Give the kid a chance.

[Connorbear]

Kevin White is Allan Robinson's backup.   That is why White doesn't see the field as often.   

Peace

[adam]

They need to find White some more reps. 

[madlithuanian]

Bellamy should not see the offensive field at all unless it is only due to injury or needing a breather.  If so, no pass should go his way ever.  Same for Sims.   I don't care which WR is supposed to be so and so's back up...bad things happen when the ball is thrown towards Bellamy, Sims and Braunacher.  No more.  

[Alaskan Grizzly]

16 hours ago, adam said:

They need to find White some more reps. 

⬆️This 100%⬆️

[ChileBear]

18 hours ago, adam said:

They need to find White some more reps. 

You bet! And I'd imagine that he's hungry right now. Let him play.

[Chitownhustla]

18 hours ago, adam said:

They need to find White some more reps. 

Well that wont be a problem, Robinson has a groin injury. White should see some more reps this week. I hope the kid takes advantage of this opportunity.

[AZ54]

On 10/21/2018 at 2:24 PM, Bears4Ever_34 said:

It's so fitting that Kevin White, the guy Matt Nagy has benched in favor of the special teamer Josh Bellamy, almost tied up the game with a big-time catch near the goal line in the final seconds. 

Favoring Josh Bellamy over Kevin White is so indefensible it makes my head hurt. I get that White isn't the guy the Bears projected him to be coming out of the draft, but the guy can still run down the field and make contested catches in traffic. He doesn't have to run amazing routes, he just has to run really freakin fast and make plays down the field. 

Infuriating. I sure as hell hope those last few plays White made may change the coach's mind about the depth chart going into the next few games. Give the kid a chance.

You remember the illegal formation penalty in the Dolphins game that negated a big play?  That was because White lined up in the wrong place.  Nobody is going to come out and say this but I suspect he has a small subset of plays he knows and he's in for.  Despite being a better receiver than Bellamy if he doesn't know or understand all the details of playing in this offense, and there are many, then he's not helping.    If White were a better option then Nagy would have him out there especially after Miller's injury.  Nagy isn't afraid to play the best player, or help a player come along with snaps if it's earned, even to the point where he rotates Kush and Daniels.  

[Alaskan Grizzly]

1 hour ago, AZ54 said:

Nagy isn't afraid to play the best player, or help a player come along with snaps if it's earned,

Then how do you explain him not getting Howard more involved?  One would think the coach should cater more to his (Howard’s) strengths than worry more about the gimmicky plays.  And heck knows Jordan has shown he has improved on his catching ability. Why aren’t they emphasizing more on that added skill set?  

[Mongo3451]

I like Howard to set up behind the QB like he did in the first half.  It looked effective.  Didn't see it in the second.  Maybe it was a package thing, who knows.

[AZ54]

3 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Then how do you explain him not getting Howard more involved?  One would think the coach should cater more to his (Howard’s) strengths than worry more about the gimmicky plays.  And heck knows Jordan has shown he has improved on his catching ability. Why aren’t they emphasizing more on that added skill set?  

I'm sure his opinion is that Cohen, for his offense and against these defenses, is the better player.  In the last 3 games our offense has put up 48, 28, and 31pts, an average of 35pts per game.  Is your point that with Howard running more often we'd be averaging 38 or 40pts per game?   Howard is still getting about twice as many attempts as Cohen the last two games (14,12 vs. 5,6) but Cohen clearly gets more passing attempts than Howard.   I"m ok with that because Cohen is better in the open field.  

I suppose we could return to Fox-ball and feature Howard almost exclusively.  For me, I'll take the 35pts per game we're averaging lately, and a lot of other teams would take it too.  For the season in yards/game we're 11th and in pts/gm we're 6th with 28.3pts/gm.   In 2017 Fox-ball featured Howard and generated a whopping 16,5pts/gm.  Granted we have a better WR corps but with AR injured and Miller somewhat limited because he can't raise his left arm we're back to relying on Bellamy again.   Yet we have a 2x improvement in points scored.    

When Pace was interviewing, had he asked fans about this Nagy guy and said that he knew by mid-season our offense would be scoring about 35pts/game, I'm pretty sure most fans would have said to bring him in.  I like Jordan Howard on this roster.  He has a role but I'm not married to him being the primary offensive weapon when the primary offensive objective of scoring points is being done very well lately.  

Yet we all see there is even more meat on the bone if they just stop making some mistakes.   

[Alaskan Grizzly]

16 hours ago, AZ54 said:

I'm sure his opinion is that Cohen, for his offense and against these defenses, is the better player.  In the last 3 games our offense has put up 48, 28, and 31pts, an average of 35pts per game.  Is your point that with Howard running more often we'd be averaging 38 or 40pts per game?   Howard is still getting about twice as many attempts as Cohen the last two games (14,12 vs. 5,6) but Cohen clearly gets more passing attempts than Howard.

So two ways to answer this.  You made the statement earlier that Nagy would "...play the best player, or help a player come along with snaps if it's earned..."  My rationale is that Howard has 'earned' himself the reputation for becoming a better receiver out of the backfield.  And although the stats are minimal, he is nearly 100% in his targets to catches (save the Arizona game).  Why then wouldn't Nagy "help a player come along...if the snaps are earned"?  Not only has his proficiency gotten better on the field but he's worked independently on the JUGS etc. on becoming better.   Sure he's not as elusive as perhaps Cohen may be but then again every time he's out,  it adds another dimension to the offense.  Last weeks game was clear evidence that defenses are starting to figure out Cohen, especially when he's telegraphed by being on the field.  The sweep right and left with him aren't working, or at least they didn't last week.  And as others have pointed out with the accuracy issue (most notably going high and over the receivers) that Trubisky is starting to exhibit, do we really want to give him more opportunities to overshoot a 5'6" receiver? 

That being said, sure its great to score 30, 40 or 50 points but at what expense?  What happened to ball control?  Why wouldn't we want to run the ball more and get 5-6 yard chunks, easily something Howard is capable of, while running down the clock?  These last two games show that the defense is struggling so why wouldn't you want to help them by giving them an opportunity to rest more rather than going for the big strike plays and score as much and as often as you can only to have them right back on the field after doing so?   

[AZ54]

15 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

So two ways to answer this.  You made the statement earlier that Nagy would "...play the best player, or help a player come along with snaps if it's earned..."  My rationale is that Howard has 'earned' himself the reputation for becoming a better receiver out of the backfield.  And although the stats are minimal, he is nearly 100% in his targets to catches (save the Arizona game).  Why then wouldn't Nagy "help a player come along...if the snaps are earned"?  Not only has his proficiency gotten better on the field but he's worked independently on the JUGS etc. on becoming better.   Sure he's not as elusive as perhaps Cohen may be but then again every time he's out,  it adds another dimension to the offense.  Last weeks game was clear evidence that defenses are starting to figure out Cohen, especially when he's telegraphed by being on the field.  The sweep right and left with him aren't working, or at least they didn't last week.  And as others have pointed out with the accuracy issue (most notably going high and over the receivers) that Trubisky is starting to exhibit, do we really want to give him more opportunities to overshoot a 5'6" receiver? 

That being said, sure its great to score 30, 40 or 50 points but at what expense?  What happened to ball control?  Why wouldn't we want to run the ball more and get 5-6 yard chunks, easily something Howard is capable of, while running down the clock?  These last two games show that the defense is struggling so why wouldn't you want to help them by giving them an opportunity to rest more rather than going for the big strike plays and score as much and as often as you can only to have them right back on the field after doing so?   

Howard has improved his hands but he's not as effective on the routes that Cohen can run. We typically just see him on little swing routes out of the backfield or quick routes/screens.  However, I agree with you, and I'd actually like to see us give Howard an occasional double move route and go upfield a bit.  I think we'll catch some LBs looking into the backfield and get a wide open look at times. Plus it will help to keep the D guessing.     

If I have to choose I'm taking the 30-40pts over winning TOP any day.   Did you know we are 3rd in the NFL in TOP?   Are you expecting with Howard getting more carries we'll move into 1st place?   

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2018&seasonType=REG&role=TM&offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&d-447263-s=TIME_OF_POSS_SECONDS_PER_GAME_AVG

[BearFan PHX]

On 10/22/2018 at 6:56 PM, AZ54 said:

You remember the illegal formation penalty in the Dolphins game that negated a big play?  That was because White lined up in the wrong place.  Nobody is going to come out and say this but I suspect he has a small subset of plays he knows and he's in for.  Despite being a better receiver than Bellamy if he doesn't know or understand all the details of playing in this offense, and there are many, then he's not helping.    If White were a better option then Nagy would have him out there especially after Miller's injury.  Nagy isn't afraid to play the best player, or help a player come along with snaps if it's earned, even to the point where he rotates Kush and Daniels.  

good analysis

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

7 hours ago, AZ54 said:

If I have to choose I'm taking the 30-40pts over winning TOP any day.   Did you know we are 3rd in the NFL in TOP?   Are you expecting with Howard getting more carries we'll move into 1st place?   

Obviously stats being what they are, I'd be curious how skewed those numbers would be if you removed the TB and/or Seattle games where not only did the offense score well but  the D was more effective.  The last two games the D has not been what it was the first previous three weeks. 

If you are able to score 30-40 points AND keep the ball out the opposition's hands you should be able to win.  That is unless you play against someone like Rogers or Brady.  Being able to effectively run the ball repeatedly lessens that likelihood (giving the opp the ball).  Again, keep in mind I am of the opinion not only are they not letting Jordan catch the ball regularly they aren't running the ball 'to his style'.   Knock John Fox and his style of coaching but he (or his offensive coord) was able to effectively use the inside/outside zone blocking scheme to Jordan's benefit.  Nagy and Helfrich are deploying a more power run style that doesn't seem to work for Howard.  In this current environment he looks more like Forte in his later years where he would run into the pile and stop.  Ultimately, to answer your question, I don't care if we statistically end up with the #1 TOP as long as we are effectively passing the ball AND running the ball and getting sensible clock management out of the deal.  And the defense is being able to play to their potential.

[ChileBear]

13 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

  Ultimately, to answer your question, I don't care if we statistically end up with the #1 TOP as long as we are effectively passing the ball AND running the ball and getting sensible clock management out of the deal.  And the defense is being able to play to their potential.

Me too. Just win, baby!

[AZ54]

On 10/24/2018 at 2:07 PM, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Obviously stats being what they are, I'd be curious how skewed those numbers would be if you removed the TB and/or Seattle games where not only did the offense score well but  the D was more effective.  The last two games the D has not been what it was the first previous three weeks. 

If you are able to score 30-40 points AND keep the ball out the opposition's hands you should be able to win.  That is unless you play against someone like Rogers or Brady.  Being able to effectively run the ball repeatedly lessens that likelihood (giving the opp the ball).  Again, keep in mind I am of the opinion not only are they not letting Jordan catch the ball regularly they aren't running the ball 'to his style'.   Knock John Fox and his style of coaching but he (or his offensive coord) was able to effectively use the inside/outside zone blocking scheme to Jordan's benefit.  Nagy and Helfrich are deploying a more power run style that doesn't seem to work for Howard.  In this current environment he looks more like Forte in his later years where he would run into the pile and stop.  Ultimately, to answer your question, I don't care if we statistically end up with the #1 TOP as long as we are effectively passing the ball AND running the ball and getting sensible clock management out of the deal.  And the defense is being able to play to their potential.

Is Brady giving up the 14pts off special teams?  I don't think so.  

[lemonej]

The special teams IMO have lost the last 2 games. Parkey  missed FG in Miami during OT and the 2 touchdowns against NE a punt block and KR TD. Yes the defense has not stood up the last 2 weeks but, they made critical stops or plays in both games to allow the Bears to win. Akeem Hicks forced fumble in the Miami game even though he was gassed was critical.

 

I like Jordan Howard but, does everyone remember how he reacted when there was trade rumors about him during the off season? Dude you were a5th round pick for a reason! You're a 1 trick pony. Nagy's offense some what mirrors KC's offense sans 1 thing Kareem Hunt can line up at WR and actually catch the ball making Tarek Hill that much more effective and Cohen is doing well despite every team expecting pass when he is on the field. If Nagy decided to go with Bennie Cunningham for the rest of the season to create a more diverse attack I wouldn't be mad. Howard has started to act like he is La veon Bell IMO.

[AZ54]

20 hours ago, lemonej said:

The special teams IMO have lost the last 2 games. Parkey  missed FG in Miami during OT and the 2 touchdowns against NE a punt block and KR TD. Yes the defense has not stood up the last 2 weeks but, they made critical stops or plays in both games to allow the Bears to win. Akeem Hicks forced fumble in the Miami game even though he was gassed was critical.

 

I like Jordan Howard but, does everyone remember how he reacted when there was trade rumors about him during the off season? Dude you were a5th round pick for a reason! You're a 1 trick pony. Nagy's offense some what mirrors KC's offense sans 1 thing Kareem Hunt can line up at WR and actually catch the ball making Tarek Hill that much more effective and Cohen is doing well despite every team expecting pass when he is on the field. If Nagy decided to go with Bennie Cunningham for the rest of the season to create a more diverse attack I wouldn't be mad. Howard has started to act like he is La veon Bell IMO.

I like Jordan Howard and to be honest it is understandable when a player to be a bit upset when he goes from bell cow to back of the herd.  He's a 5th Rd pick but this is his livelihood so it matters to him.  I'd be more concerned if he didn't care.  As long as he keeps working good things will come his way but this offense is far too diverse for him to be what he was for Fox and Loggains. That much he'll have to accept.  He could also use some better blocking and too often that has been poor. 

I really think Nagy focused on the passing game in the offseason both for Trubisky and the Offense overall.  I'm not saying that's wrong because it needed the most attention but clearly the blocking assignments on some run plays are poorly executed.  Hopefully they can get the running game details down soon and start opening more holes for Howard.