Bears at Giants Official Game Thread (Sun, Dec 2, 12:00 PM CST/FOX/Bears -4.5, O/U 45)

[BearFan2000]

16 hours ago, Bill said:

Ugly game again.  But if you told me we would be 8-4 and leading div. at start season would just of loved it so as sad as I am still need to look at big picture.  Just can't win making that many mistakes on all sides of the ball and coaching.

Amen!  I was so pissed after that fumble that I shut it off and tossed the remote. After cooling down. I came to the same thinking you did. Had someone told me the Bears would be 8-4 and on top of our division I’d have taken that in a heartbeat. It doesn’t suck any less to lose to a team like the giants but it is one game.  Vikings lost to the Pats so we are still 1 1/2 games up in the division. It’s been a crazy week in the nfl. 

[Stinger226]

I think the results of the complete season we are riding to high on our optimism. We are still a work in progress, from coaching to MT, to some of the young players on defense. If a hurt MT would have played today, we would have won. It always comes down to a handful of plays that allow us a win or give us a loss. To be honest the only 2 games that matter are how we play against GB and Minn. those will determine our fate. I think we are in the game against LA but probably not a winner, SF should be no problem. The only good thing about this loss is us coming back with 1:36 left to tie the game was amazing. They started bad but ended the game with a lot of effort. We are lost 2 games now in overtime by 6 points and had chances to win. I think we have to look at the over picture here and the arrow is pointing up. It sucks anytime we lose but the whole division lost yesterday.

[Lucky Luciano]

double post

[Lucky Luciano]

15 hours ago, AZ54 said:

After two games it should be clear this offense runs better, much better, with Trubisky versus Daniel.   Daniel was horrible today and couldn't even focus on basics like handling a snap.  He made poor reads on numerous blitzes and it's clear he really likes to throw to Robinson and Cohen.    

Officials stole a TD from Tarik Cohen.  Cohen is a matchup problem and Nagy knows how to use him.  

I have no issues with Nagy calling the timeout before the half.  TV announcers made a big deal of it but we have Tarik Cohen on the return and might have had the ball at midfield.  A 10-15 yard pass and we're the team kicking the FG before halftime.  Defense just can't give up 18yards to Barkley on a certain running down.  

I was surprised at the lack of pass rush at times and especially in overtime.  

Saquon Barkley will be the next RB to rush for over 2000 yards.    

Beat the Rams and everything will be as it should be.  

I'm still mad at Harrison Smith.  

 

every aspect of this game was BAD except, for a change, the special teams. almost EVERY point the giants scored was from a mistake by the bears.

i was a bit concerned with daniels after last week, he looked bad. this week? he could have fit in perfectly with any of the horrible qb's we have had over the last 30 + years. this guy has absolutely no business being in the nfl. no possible way he starts any games the rest of the season. put in HIS backup, it couldn't be much worse.

i also have to disagree about the timeout before the half. we GAVE the giants 3 points and gave them momentum going into the locker room. it was an incredibly stupid call. first if nagy was going to try and get the ball back (which was stupid with that amount of time left on the clock and our offense as stagnant as it was) why in god's name did he let those seconds tick off the clock before calling it? even IF the bears stop them there is absolutely no time left to generate any offense to get into position for a field goal.

all it did was created a remote window for the giants to score. and that is exactly what happened - it was a lose/lose situation for chicago. no timeout and the giants run the clock out.

next... what in the hell kind of coverage was fangio calling? not once but TWICE we give up uncontested touchdowns due to blown coverages. there is no excuse for that to happen twice in one game.

we win and we are in the drivers seat in our division.

we literally gave this game away.

 

 

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, Lucky Luciano said:

every aspect of this game was BAD except, for a change, the special teams. almost EVERY point the giants scored was from a mistake by the bears.

i was a bit concerned with daniels after last week, he looked bad. this week? he could have fit in perfectly with any of the horrible qb's we have had over the last 30 + years. this guy has absolutely no business being in the nfl. no possible way he starts any games the rest of the season. put in HIS backup, it couldn't be much worse.

i also have to disagree about the timeout before the half. we GAVE the giants 3 points and gave them momentum going into the locker room. it was an incredibly stupid call. first if nagy was going to try and get the ball back (which was stupid with that amount of time left on the clock and our offense as stagnant as it was) why in god's name did he let those seconds tick off the clock before calling it? even IF the bears stop them there is absolutely no time left to generate any offense to get into position for a field goal.

all it did was created a remote window for the giants to score. and that is exactly what happened - it was a lose/lose situation for chicago. no timeout and the giants run the clock out.

next... what in the hell kind of coverage was fangio calling? not once but TWICE we give up uncontested touchdowns due to blown coverages. there is no excuse for that to happen twice in one game.

we win and we are in the drivers seat in our division.

we literally gave this game away.

 

 

This was a bad game with lots of mistakes but lets keep things in perspective here, we are 8-4 and in first place by 1 and 1/2 games. GB is buried. What did you pick for wins for this team at the beginning at the season ? We still have a couple  more bad games in us but if MT is playing we have enough good plays to win games. If we go 2-2 the rest of the way, I still think we win the division and finish 10-6 , not bad for a new coach, change in scheme and a developing QB. 

A few notes:  Cohen is becoming a star player even in limited touches

                       AROB is a #1 WR that catch he made along the sidelines , very few WRs make that catch

                      Parkey is 11 for 11 since having a bad game

                      Hicks is a monster

                      Cudos to Nagy for getting the whole team involved in scoring(Hicks 1 yard TD)

                      I dont think the play calling was bad, I think execution by the QB was the main issue in the game yesterday

                      OBJ was held to 3 catches yesterday by the back end, even with a few coverage breakdowns the DBs played well

 

[BearFan2000]

4 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

I think the results of the complete season we are riding to high on our optimism. We are still a work in progress, from coaching to MT, to some of the young players on defense. If a hurt MT would have played today, we would have won. It always comes down to a handful of plays that allow us a win or give us a loss. To be honest the only 2 games that matter are how we play against GB and Minn. those will determine our fate. I think we are in the game against LA but probably not a winner, SF should be no problem. The only good thing about this loss is us coming back with 1:36 left to tie the game was amazing. They started bad but ended the game with a lot of effort. We are lost 2 games now in overtime by 6 points and had chances to win. I think we have to look at the over picture here and the arrow is pointing up. It sucks anytime we lose but the whole division lost yesterday.

That is what we have to remember this whole thing is a work in progress, that has had more success that we had expected going in.  That success creates expectation we expect to win every game.  That's not a bad thing, it's a product of your team becoming something worth rooting for.  If todays game were last season I'd have thought nothing of it, put it in context this season and it was upsetting, because I've come to expect more from my Bears.  

I do think we can beat the Rams at home next week.  The fledgling Lions stayed in that game against them and were only down 3 going into the 4th quarter.  The Rams aren't this invincible juggernaut and neither are the Saints.  Every team has vulnerabilities.  A win next week over LA would put us in a really good spot with a favorable schedule the rest of the way.  At the very least we should be able to win our division and host a wildcard game.  At best we manage a 1 or 2 seed and we have the bye and host a divisional round game and possibly even host a conf championship game.  It's crazy to think this isn't far fetched.  Getting to the playoffs was my hope this year, anything above that is icing.  

[Stinger226]

I think we end up the third seed and have a home game against Wash or Dallas,  I see us winning if we play at home. As far as a bye, to far on the rfhr to think we could do that. If we win out, we are 12-4 , no way LA or NO wins 2 more times unless a major injury.

[Lucky Luciano]

2 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

This was a bad game with lots of mistakes but lets keep things in perspective here, we are 8-4 and in first place by 1 and 1/2 games. GB is buried. What did you pick for wins for this team at the beginning at the season ? We still have a couple  more bad games in us but if MT is playing we have enough good plays to win games. If we go 2-2 the rest of the way, I still think we win the division and finish 10-6 , not bad for a new coach, change in scheme and a developing QB. 

A few notes:  Cohen is becoming a star player even in limited touches

                       AROB is a #1 WR that catch he made along the sidelines , very few WRs make that catch

                      Parkey is 11 for 11 since having a bad game

                      Hicks is a monster

                      Cudos to Nagy for getting the whole team involved in scoring(Hicks 1 yard TD)

                      I dont think the play calling was bad, I think execution by the QB was the main issue in the game yesterday

                      OBJ was held to 3 catches yesterday by the back end, even with a few coverage breakdowns the DBs played well

 

i agree with you we are ahead of expectations with this franchise and realistically it should take another two years to compete for winning a sb. but... those were bonehead calls and plays in any kind of season.

fangio needs to step up on this. the soft zones even in this game were glaring but i still say two blown coverages for td's is not acceptable.

nagy has exceeded expectations but that was a completely bad decision on that timeout.

i still stand by my estimation of daniels. he is definitatly not starter quality. sub for a play or two? ok. nothing more. if we are going to throw that kind of mess out there i would rather see bray fail than watch daniels again. 3rd stringer for daniels or cut him.

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

1 hour ago, Lucky Luciano said:

i still stand by my estimation of daniels. he is definitatly not starter quality. sub for a play or two? ok. nothing more. if we are going to throw that kind of mess out there i would rather see bray fail than watch daniels again. 3rd stringer for daniels or cut him.

Just out of morbid curiosity and for the sake of being a Devils advocate at times; had this been Trubisky playing like Daniel did yesterday, would you have been calling for a change?  I’ve been a bit harsh on Trubisky but even I would’ve given him the benefit of the doubt; considering where the team is now and how he has shown some promise.  Don’t think for a moment that with the conditions as they were (misty/fog) and how Trubisky has had issues with reading coverages at times he may not have made the same mistakes.  And besides that, some of those turnovers, or near turnovers, were not Daniel’s fault.  Certainly not when Whitehair sent the ball to his feet or when Gabriel fumbled the pass after the catch. 

My point is; one game does not a career make.  That is only the third start for Daniel in his career but the fifth year in this system.  And I think we’d all agree he looked pretty good, if not as good as Trubisky, last week.  The one big difference between these two aside from age and experience is mobility . That by itself puts Trubiksy on a higher plane of potential, at least right now.  I mean if Peyton Manning can fumble the opening snap of super bowl 50 and still make the Hall of Fame then I think Daniel should at least be given a chance to still play backup to Trubisky.  

[Stinger226]

2 hours ago, Lucky Luciano said:

i agree with you we are ahead of expectations with this franchise and realistically it should take another two years to compete for winning a sb. but... those were bonehead calls and plays in any kind of season.

fangio needs to step up on this. the soft zones even in this game were glaring but i still say two blown coverages for td's is not acceptable.

nagy has exceeded expectations but that was a completely bad decision on that timeout.

i still stand by my estimation of daniels. he is definitatly not starter quality. sub for a play or two? ok. nothing more. if we are going to throw that kind of mess out there i would rather see bray fail than watch daniels again. 3rd stringer for daniels or cut him.

 

I guess we cut Daniels, fire Fangio and Nagy makes mistakes so we should fine him. HIre a new coach next year and find coaches that never make mistakes. Personally I am quite excited were 8-4, I guess you need to see us  as undefeated  team and O points scored on defense to be happy.

[adam]

I was traveling during the game, but saw the highlights. What an epic game by Cohen. I was surprised to see Barkley have so many yards. That play right before halftime that got them into FG was deadly. That was essentially the difference in the game. 

What the hell were the officials doing on the Cohen TD that was called down by contact. That is the worst call in the game because you can't challenge it. They shouldn't blow those dead. Another game deciding blown call.

[AZ54]

6 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Just out of morbid curiosity and for the sake of being a Devils advocate at times; had this been Trubisky playing like Daniel did yesterday, would you have been calling for a change?  I’ve been a bit harsh on Trubisky but even I would’ve given him the benefit of the doubt; considering where the team is now and how he has shown some promise.  Don’t think for a moment that with the conditions as they were (misty/fog) and how Trubisky has had issues with reading coverages at times he may not have made the same mistakes.  And besides that, some of those turnovers, or near turnovers, were not Daniel’s fault.  Certainly not when Whitehair sent the ball to his feet or when Gabriel fumbled the pass after the catch. 

My point is; one game does not a career make.  That is only the third start for Daniel in his career but the fifth year in this system.  And I think we’d all agree he looked pretty good, if not as good as Trubisky, last week.  The one big difference between these two aside from age and experience is mobility . That by itself puts Trubiksy on a higher plane of potential, at least right now.  I mean if Peyton Manning can fumble the opening snap of super bowl 50 and still make the Hall of Fame then I think Daniel should at least be given a chance to still play backup to Trubisky.  

We don't all agree Daniel plays bette than Trubisky.  The missing long game really hurt us against the Giants and it fed right into what their DC Bettcher loves to do with blitzes.  That rattled Daniel enough early on that he could never relax enough to look at the snap.  They weren't that bad but you can't catch anything if you aren't looking at it when it's coming at you.   You are correct this is largely the same criticism on blitz reads Truisky had early in the season.   He corrected it and I expect in time Daniel will too but no matter what the intermediate-to-long passing game will never be as productive as it is with Trubisky.  Which is just like most backups in the NFL.  

[Alaskan Grizzly]

16 hours ago, AZ54 said:

We don't all agree Daniel plays bette than Trubisky.  The missing long game really hurt us against the Giants and it fed right into what their DC Bettcher loves to do with blitzes.  That rattled Daniel enough early on that he could never relax enough to look at the snap.  They weren't that bad but you can't catch anything if you aren't looking at it when it's coming at you.   You are correct this is largely the same criticism on blitz reads Truisky had early in the season.   He corrected it and I expect in time Daniel will too but no matter what the intermediate-to-long passing game will never be as productive as it is with Trubisky.  Which is just like most backups in the NFL.  

We also don’t all agree that Trubiksy has solved the long game rubik either.  Yes he has improved but last I checked he still has a tendency to overshoot his receivers, but yes he has improved.

I think part of why the Bears lost against the Giants was not all the turnovers that occurred but the abandonment of the run game.  In the first half Jordan had 68 yards rushing but only had 8 yards total rushing in the second half (edit).  I saw an article that deferred to analytics and statistics suggesting to why Nagy decided to pass more the second half; and I say ‘hogwash’.  The Bears still had a lead, however slight, in the second half and conventional wisdom says running the ball helps eat clock and gives you a balanced attack.  When you have things like constant blitzes, as you pointed out Boettcher prefers to do, you counter with plays like play action and screens.  Not necessarily long bombs.  Especially if the run game is proving successful. 

[Lucky Luciano]

17 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

I guess we cut Daniels, fire Fangio and Nagy makes mistakes so we should fine him. HIre a new coach next year and find coaches that never make mistakes. Personally I am quite excited were 8-4, I guess you need to see us  as undefeated  team and O points scored on defense to be happy.

just to clear the air... i am a huge nagy fan at this time. so, did i ever say we fire fangio or nagy? the answer is no. but that does NOT give either of them a free pass for stupid or bad coaching! it needs to be stated and improvement needs to happen over time. NOBODY gets a free pass in this league from constructive criticism and if it IS replaced by total blind faith we will end up eventually in the same sinking boat we have been in forever.

as far as daniels.... i don't care how many starts he has had or hasn't had. he is NOT a starting qb in the nfl any more than johnathan quinn was. at the best he is a working coach designated as a 3rd string qb who if we are relying on this guy for more than short time game filler we are done for the season anyway.

he doesn't think quick enough, he has no arm, he has no feel for pressure, he has no escapabillity and most of all he is INACCURATE!!

this is not some practice squad walk on unfamiliar with the nfl. this guy has been in the league for years (just like quinn). there is a very good reason why he has had only two starts before coming to chicago.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

13 hours ago, AZ54 said:

We don't all agree Daniel plays bette than Trubisky.  The missing long game really hurt us against the Giants and it fed right into what their DC Bettcher loves to do with blitzes.  That rattled Daniel enough early on that he could never relax enough to look at the snap.  They weren't that bad but you can't catch anything if you aren't looking at it when it's coming at you.   You are correct this is largely the same criticism on blitz reads Truisky had early in the season.   He corrected it and I expect in time Daniel will too but no matter what the intermediate-to-long passing game will never be as productive as it is with Trubisky.  Which is just like most backups in the NFL.  

By the way, I still like Daniel as a backup. I've just long said he doesn't have the skillsets to be a long-term starter. He doesn't have the physical tools, he just doesn't. He's still a good backup QB to have and going 1-1 in 2 road games with a backup is admirable.  Trubisky is going to have bad games too and he could have a game as bad as Daniel had on Sunday (easily)....but he has far more tools and it is why you invest the time in developing him further and do everything you can to maximize his potential (that is more a response to Alaska vs. you AZ).  

[BearFan PHX]

If you saw Daniel in a park throwing, youd think he was a god. If you put him today, knowing what he knows now, on a college team, he'd be incredibly successful. This is true for almost every backup in the league.

The pros are incredibly competitive. the speed of the game is just almost impossible to keep up with. To be successful the ball needs to come out so fast, to the right place, and be delivered with strength and accuracy into tiny windows.

Playing NFL QB is so hard that there arent even enough good ones for every team to even have one. There are probably only 5 good ones, and another 5 that could make a case that they should be one of the 5. That's why you pay a guy like Chase, and he's worth it, even at that level of performance, and why you stay with a guy like Trubisky while he learns.

If Nagy and Pace think Chase is the right guy, thats good enough for me.

 

[AZ54]

12 hours ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

By the way, I still like Daniel as a backup. I've just long said he doesn't have the skillsets to be a long-term starter. He doesn't have the physical tools, he just doesn't. He's still a good backup QB to have and going 1-1 in 2 road games with a backup is admirable.  Trubisky is going to have bad games too and he could have a game as bad as Daniel had on Sunday (easily)....but he has far more tools and it is why you invest the time in developing him further and do everything you can to maximize his potential (that is more a response to Alaska vs. you AZ).  

I agree.  It was always the right call to work for the long haul win and try to get a franchise QB out of Trubisky.  Now as the 3rd quarter of the season has closed we can clearly see the advantages he gives our offense.