National Media

[adam]

Not that this is something new, but it is interesting to see how the media reacts to two different losses this week. KC and CHI.

So we lose to OAK in London with our backup QB and several other injuries to the same team that beat the Colts in Indy the week before. Those same Colts just beat the Chiefs in KC. So you would think, things like Power Rankings would reflect a similar outcome for the Bears and Chiefs. We both lost to middle of the road teams (both now 3-2), yet one did at home and one did at a neutral site. At worst, we should fall fairly even in power rankings, which is an easy way to judge how others see the teams.

However, that is not the case, check out these differences:

NFL.com: Chiefs drop 1 spot, Bears drop 6
ESPN.com: Chiefs drop 1 spot, Bears drop 4
SI/MMQB: Chiefs drop 3 spots, Bears drop 7
CBS Sports: Chiefs drop 4 spots, Bears drop 5
Yahoo Sports: Chiefs drop 1 spot, Bears drop 2
Sporting News: Chiefs drop 3 spots, Bears drop 7
USA Today: Chiefs drop 1 spot, Bears drop 3

So on average, the Chiefs dropped 2 spots with a conference loss at home, while the Bears dropped 5 spots for a non-conference loss with a backup QB at a neutral site. A few polls also have us behind Detroit and Minnesota, which makes absolutely no sense. 

Just thought that was an interesting look at how we are valued. We have two weeks to prep for New Orleans and I would say that (as a conference game) is truly a must win. Can't go back to back years 3-3 in the first 6 games and expect the same outcome. 

 

[Mongo3451]

That's true.  My Colts buddies a at work are wondering why they haven't cracked the top ten on ESPN's poll.

[AZ54]

2 hours ago, adam said:

Not that this is something new, but it is interesting to see how the media reacts to two different losses this week. KC and CHI.

So we lose to OAK in London with our backup QB and several other injuries to the same team that beat the Colts in Indy the week before. Those same Colts just beat the Chiefs in KC. So you would think, things like Power Rankings would reflect a similar outcome for the Bears and Chiefs. We both lost to middle of the road teams (both now 3-2), yet one did at home and one did at a neutral site. At worst, we should fall fairly even in power rankings, which is an easy way to judge how others see the teams.

However, that is not the case, check out these differences:

NFL.com: Chiefs drop 1 spot, Bears drop 6
ESPN.com: Chiefs drop 1 spot, Bears drop 4
SI/MMQB: Chiefs drop 3 spots, Bears drop 7
CBS Sports: Chiefs drop 4 spots, Bears drop 5
Yahoo Sports: Chiefs drop 1 spot, Bears drop 2
Sporting News: Chiefs drop 3 spots, Bears drop 7
USA Today: Chiefs drop 1 spot, Bears drop 3

So on average, the Chiefs dropped 2 spots with a conference loss at home, while the Bears dropped 5 spots for a non-conference loss with a backup QB at a neutral site. A few polls also have us behind Detroit and Minnesota, which makes absolutely no sense. 

Just thought that was an interesting look at how we are valued. We have two weeks to prep for New Orleans and I would say that (as a conference game) is truly a must win. Can't go back to back years 3-3 in the first 6 games and expect the same outcome. 

 

I just laughed at Mahomes putting up 13 pts against the Colts D.  Except he was excused because he had some Oline issues and was missing a WR.  Here I assured after reading all the Trubisky reviews that those players don't make a difference in QB play.   I saw some overthrows, underthrows,  sacks taken because he didn't make the hot read, heck even 1/3 of his passing yards came in garbage time in the 4th quarter.   He only completed a miserable 56% of his passes.   By the way that mirrors what he did in the last 6 games last year when he lost Hunt, and it carried into the playoffs.  Talent matters.  So does blocking.    

[adam]

13 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

That's true.  My Colts buddies a at work are wondering why they haven't cracked the top ten on ESPN's poll.

They should be if KC is that good. The rankings basically discount the Indy win as a fluke, yet say the Oakland win was not. Just funny how the narrative can be spun to support their position. 

[adam]

11 hours ago, AZ54 said:

I just laughed at Mahomes putting up 13 pts against the Colts D.  Except he was excused because he had some Oline issues and was missing a WR.  Here I assured after reading all the Trubisky reviews that those players don't make a difference in QB play.   I saw some overthrows, underthrows,  sacks taken because he didn't make the hot read, heck even 1/3 of his passing yards came in garbage time in the 4th quarter.   He only completed a miserable 56% of his passes.   By the way that mirrors what he did in the last 6 games last year when he lost Hunt, and it carried into the playoffs.  Talent matters.  So does blocking.    

Mahomes is a great QB, but he is not otherworldly like his stats were last year. Even to start this year, look at almost all of the big plays, the receivers are WIDE open. Any QB in the league can make those throws. 

KC has no running game and it is going to come back to bite them (like us), if you can't at least threaten with the run, the passes will dry up.

[BearFan PHX]

3 hours ago, adam said:

Mahomes is a great QB, but he is not otherworldly like his stats were last year. Even to start this year, look at almost all of the big plays, the receivers are WIDE open. Any QB in the league can make those throws. 

KC has no running game and it is going to come back to bite them (like us), if you can't at least threaten with the run, the passes will dry up.

they are wide open because Mahomes uses his eyes to manipulate coverage, and find the open receivers.

Notice how all the Wrs are in blanket coverage when Trubisky is in there, and the same receivers are open when Daniel is in there?

Im not saying Trubisky wont get better, but this is who he is right now. And "some day" IS running out of time...

[DABEARSDABOMB]

1 hour ago, BearFan NYC said:

they are wide open because Mahomes uses his eyes to manipulate coverage, and find the open receivers.

Notice how all the Wrs are in blanket coverage when Trubisky is in there, and the same receivers are open when Daniel is in there?

Im not saying Trubisky wont get better, but this is who he is right now. And "some day" IS running out of time...

I don't really think I saw a bunch of wideouts open with Daniel either. I think we have a pretty lousy receiving corps and scheme at this point, a bad oline, mediocre to poor QB play, and a poor rushing game (most likely due to the line and scheme).  All in all a terrible offense.  People overhyped them all off-season, but both the coaching staff and individual players need to step up and fast.  

The only optimism I have is Leno has never been flagged like he has recently and Daniels/Whitehair should get better as they adjust.  On the WR / TE front, we can only hope that at somepoint Miller & Burton emerge as playmakers opposite Robinson (who has been the only good player on offense).  I kind of like Wimms as well.  Seperately, the coaches need to man up and get better.  

QB play also has to get better too.  Daniels has severe limitations and we know Trubisky had struggled out of the gate as well (albeit...some of that is chalked up to all the items outlined above).  

[BearFan PHX]

I think what we are missing is a combination of the QB using his eyes to open up receivers, and the OL giving him time and space to do that.

I think the WRs and the plays are fine.

I wouldn't be shocked to see some new players on the OL, but I dont really know if anyone on the bench is really better than any of the starters.

Except Long. He is done.

[adam]

1 hour ago, BearFan NYC said:

they are wide open because Mahomes uses his eyes to manipulate coverage, and find the open receivers.

Notice how all the Wrs are in blanket coverage when Trubisky is in there, and the same receivers are open when Daniel is in there?

Im not saying Trubisky wont get better, but this is who he is right now. And "some day" IS running out of time...

For Mahomes, maybe on a few, but most of the time he is tossing it to a wide open guy without having to do too much work behind the LOS.

For Daniel, I didn't see many open guys. Daniel's throw to Arob was into super tight coverage and his 3 picks were into double-triple coverage (1 INT called back).

I agree wholeheartedly on Trubisky, I just think he is in a lot worse position than Mahomes or Watson, and even if he is not as good of a QB as those guys, not having top-end talent (Hill, Kelce, Hopkins) that gets open makes him look even worse. Then you couple that with a line that can't pass or run block and you have a recipe for disaster. Plus the playcalling has been absolutely brutal. If Montgomery is so elusive (which I believe he is), why not get him the ball a few times in the flat out of the backfield? Cohen gets the bulk of those but he can't break a tackle. I would love to see Montgomery isolated on a CB out there.

[BearFan PHX]

the answer to all of your questions is "because the OL has been sucking"

When I say Mahomes gets his receivers open, Im saying he looks off safeties. Daniel has done that too. Not as well as Mahomes LOL

But in all cases, when you stare down your primary receiver, guys dont look open. Also, OTHER guys may be open and bad reads disguise it too.

I think this is all on the OL and QB play.

[madlithuanian]

What's a national media?  I've sworn off the stuff...

[AZ54]

9 hours ago, BearFan NYC said:

the answer to all of your questions is "because the OL has been sucking"

When I say Mahomes gets his receivers open, Im saying he looks off safeties. Daniel has done that too. Not as well as Mahomes LOL

But in all cases, when you stare down your primary receiver, guys dont look open. Also, OTHER guys may be open and bad reads disguise it too.

I think this is all on the OL and QB play.

Watch the game against the Colts and pretend the back of his jersey says Trubisky.  Especially on his throw into the dirt or one of many over-throws.  

I know Tru has missed some reads but he does far more scanning of the D than people are giving him credit for.  Far more.  Plus sometimes the play is executed correctly and the first (primary) read is the correct throw and timing demands it be thrown early.   You don't look off a safety on a quick inside slant if it's open.  The microscope Bears fans put on Trubisky is like no other even when he has a good game.  

What we know is that good offensive teams like the Patriots and Saints focus heavily on the Oline play.  There's a reason Belichick dragged his Oline coach out of retirement years ago when his Oline was playing poorly.  Isn't it odd that our offense played better with former KC Oline castoff Bryan Witzmann last year as opposed to what Kyle Long has done this year?  Tru had more issues last year with the offense than this year.    

He's clearly better this year in the first 5 games than last year but even if he's the same QB we saw in 2018 what's the difference in the offense?   WRs?  RBs?  Oline?  TEs?  Are we really missing Sims?  Doubtful.  We are missing a healthy Burton for sure so that is one piece to the puzzle.  Trubisky is just not good enough to carry a poor Oline like the one he has had in front of him.  Even among the better NFL QBs I'm not sure who is.  

 

 

[adam]

12 hours ago, AZ54 said:

Watch the game against the Colts and pretend the back of his jersey says Trubisky.  Especially on his throw into the dirt or one of many over-throws.  

I know Tru has missed some reads but he does far more scanning of the D than people are giving him credit for.  Far more.  Plus sometimes the play is executed correctly and the first (primary) read is the correct throw and timing demands it be thrown early.   You don't look off a safety on a quick inside slant if it's open.  The microscope Bears fans put on Trubisky is like no other even when he has a good game.  

What we know is that good offensive teams like the Patriots and Saints focus heavily on the Oline play.  There's a reason Belichick dragged his Oline coach out of retirement years ago when his Oline was playing poorly.  Isn't it odd that our offense played better with former KC Oline castoff Bryan Witzmann last year as opposed to what Kyle Long has done this year?  Tru had more issues last year with the offense than this year.    

He's clearly better this year in the first 5 games than last year but even if he's the same QB we saw in 2018 what's the difference in the offense?   WRs?  RBs?  Oline?  TEs?  Are we really missing Sims?  Doubtful.  We are missing a healthy Burton for sure so that is one piece to the puzzle.  Trubisky is just not good enough to carry a poor Oline like the one he has had in front of him.  Even among the better NFL QBs I'm not sure who is.  

 

 

I also think there is something else to it. They look like a different team in the hurry-up or two-minute offense where Trubisky can just play ball. It seems like Nagy's play calling is also restricting Trubisky's play. If Nagy is calling a bad play, and no one is open, what is Trubisky supposed to do? I also think they told him not to run anymore or wait longer to run. This is causing more sacks and more bad plays than anything else. 

I look at it like this, you can have what you believe is a great plan, but if not executed properly makes it look bad. On the flip, you can have a bad plan that makes everyone executing look bad regardless of how good you are. Then you have the Bears, a bad game plan coupled with bad execution, and you have a nightmare of an offense. 

When I watch the All-22, I still don't understand what Nagy is intending to do with the routes within the play. In order to have a natural progression with the reads, the players need to come open at different times and I just don't see that. Also, there doesn't seem to be a safety valve on every play where Trubisky can go if no one else is open. A bunch of plays don't have that, just 3-4 receivers all running mid to deep routes right next to each other making it very easy to cover.

[AZ54]

14 hours ago, adam said:

When I watch the All-22, I still don't understand what Nagy is intending to do with the routes within the play. In order to have a natural progression with the reads, the players need to come open at different times and I just don't see that. Also, there doesn't seem to be a safety valve on every play where Trubisky can go if no one else is open. A bunch of plays don't have that, just 3-4 receivers all running mid to deep routes right next to each other making it very easy to cover.

I wonder how much of this issue is receivers (i.e. Miller) not running the routes correctly.   Still I think overall at this point everyone has a hand in what we've seen but IF we could get consistent blocking up front for both the run game and pass protection it would allow the rest to settle down.  At the very least it will let Daniel or Trubisky not feel like they have to get all the yards from the passing game. 

Getting some stability back with Burton, who was a big piece of what Trubisky did last year, and then Gabriel will help a ton.  I didn't expect much from Gabriel when we signed him but he's been worth the contract.  I think at the end of the day it's the consistent route running from Gabriel that earns him the snaps, and that's how someone like AMiller stays on the bench.   Will we soon see Riley Ridley take some snaps from Miller?  

[Stinger226]

Last year we were 3-3 before we went on  a run. Nagy has 7 losses and 15 wins, I think its been a team failure and he will get it together. The OL screws up everything, and that will change with Long out and better communication with the line. Hopefully MT stays healthy, he is the best QB on the roster. We have lost by 1-3-6-3-1-7-3. We are in every game even when we have played bad.Every game either way is usually decided by 5 plays in each game. We need to clean up penalties and have more consistency by OL and QB., . We need to be more efficient in the running game then we will be on the side of wins.

[adam]

4 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

Last year we were 3-3 before we went on  a run. Nagy has 7 losses and 15 wins, I think its been a team failure and he will get it together. The OL screws up everything, and that will change with Long out and better communication with the line. Hopefully MT stays healthy, he is the best QB on the roster. We have lost by 1-3-6-3-1-7-3. We are in every game even when we have played bad.Every game either way is usually decided by 5 plays in each game. We need to clean up penalties and have more consistency by OL and QB., . We need to be more efficient in the running game then we will be on the side of wins.

Stinger, you are correct. I think that is the frustrating part. We have been in every game, held a lead in every game and the ones we lose, we do something to lose. It's not like the other team is beating us. 

[adam]

11 hours ago, AZ54 said:

I wonder how much of this issue is receivers (i.e. Miller) not running the routes correctly.   Still I think overall at this point everyone has a hand in what we've seen but IF we could get consistent blocking up front for both the run game and pass protection it would allow the rest to settle down.  At the very least it will let Daniel or Trubisky not feel like they have to get all the yards from the passing game. 

Getting some stability back with Burton, who was a big piece of what Trubisky did last year, and then Gabriel will help a ton.  I didn't expect much from Gabriel when we signed him but he's been worth the contract.  I think at the end of the day it's the consistent route running from Gabriel that earns him the snaps, and that's how someone like AMiller stays on the bench.   Will we soon see Riley Ridley take some snaps from Miller?  

Burton seems to be the key, and if he is not 100%, then that alone coupled with the bad O-Line play definitely doesn't help. I would like to see more of Holtz. He had a nice screen play and seems to be a good fit for the offensive style Nagy likes.

[Stinger226]

they have used Holtz as a FB on a few plays also.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

25 minutes ago, adam said:

I would like to see more of Holtz. He had a nice screen play and seems to be a good fit for the offensive style Nagy likes.

Agreed.  Want to say I’ve seen him targeted three (?) times, twice in the last game. Of those 3 he caught two (for decent gains) and the other literally bounced off his hands.  I’d still like to see Horstead elevated especially if Burton continues to struggle.  They seem to be similar style players with the edge going to Horstead on athleticism...right now.  

While looking at the current list of PS members, I found there’s another Notre Dame alum OL (and teammate of Bars’) in the name of Sam Mustipher.  He wasn’t invited to the Combine because his “measurables” aren’t overly impressive.  But he was a finalist for the Rimington award in 2018 and seems like a solid player. He’s currently listed at Center but wonder how he would do as an interior lineman if the need arose? 

[adam]

12 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Agreed.  Want to say I’ve seen him targeted three (?) times, twice in the last game. Of those 3 he caught two (for decent gains) and the other literally bounced off his hands.  I’d still like to see Horstead elevated especially if Burton continues to struggle.  They seem to be similar style players with the edge going to Horstead on athleticism...right now.  

While looking at the current list of PS members, I found there’s another Notre Dame alum OL (and teammate of Bars’) in the name of Sam Mustipher.  He wasn’t invited to the Combine because his “measurables” aren’t overly impressive.  But he was a finalist for the Rimington award in 2018 and seems like a solid player. He’s currently listed at Center but wonder how he would do as an interior lineman if the need arose? 

Yeah Mustipher is another sleeper. I would not mind seeing Bars, Mustipher, and Coward on the O-Line sooner than later. Long has to go, and at some point you have to think about replacing Leno and Massie if they continue with their poor play. If you can play Center, I would assume the transition to Guard would be fairly simple.

[Mongo3451]

That's why Jason and I have preaching OL on this forum, going on 2 decades now.  Next man up!

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

2 hours ago, adam said:

Yeah Mustipher is another sleeper. I would not mind seeing Bars, Mustipher, and Coward on the O-Line sooner than later. Long has to go, and at some point you have to think about replacing Leno and Massie if they continue with their poor play. If you can play Center, I would assume the transition to Guard would be fairly simple.

I anticipated more pushback on this idea so I watched some highlight film on him.  Have to say he’s not overly impressive at the center position.  (I’ll be the first to tell you I don’t normally watch oline play so my analysis probably isn’t worth anything) but he seems to have an issue with the quick transition from the ‘hike’ of the ball to blocking.  I noticed a few times he literally got pushed back into the QB during those times.  Where when he did pulling plays or what looked like zone blocking he looked pretty good.  Not sure how well he’d do in straight line power blocking (like we need more of) but on screens and probably pass plays I get the sense that he’d hold up pretty well.  

FWIW I looked at video on Daniels and Whitehair from college and really couldn’t see a HUGE difference in play between those guys and Mustipher. 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

1 hour ago, Mongo3451 said:

 

That's why Jason and I have preaching OL on this forum, going on 2 decades now.

 

Hmm... someone who agrees with Jason? How rare.  Lol.  Yeah I know he always preached the idea of picking your oline in the 1st and 2nd rounds, where I always thought that should be where you get your skill players.  

Then Trubisky gets picked not only in the first round but the team trades up to do it and...well there goes my theory.  

[ASHKUM BEAR]

How the Bears could look.  Yes, heavy on OT because they could use 2 in the mix soon. 

2- Prince Tega Wanogho OT Auburn

2- Jared Pickney TE Vanderbilt

4- Zach Robertson OT Arz St

5- Charle Snowden OLB Virg

5-Jalen Elliott S Norte Dame

6-Damon Armette CB Ohio St

6-Riley Neal QB Vanderbilt

6-Liam Eichenberg OT Notre Dame

7- Aaron Patrick OLB/DE Kentucky

[adam]

4 hours ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

How the Bears could look.  Yes, heavy on OT because they could use 2 in the mix soon. 

2- Prince Tega Wanogho OT Auburn

2- Jared Pickney TE Vanderbilt

4- Zach Robertson OT Arz St

5- Charle Snowden OLB Virg

5-Jalen Elliott S Norte Dame

6-Damon Armette CB Ohio St

6-Riley Neal QB Vanderbilt

6-Liam Eichenberg OT Notre Dame

7- Aaron Patrick OLB/DE Kentucky

I definitely like the O-Line picks, but we will probably need either a CB or ILB earlier than a 6th. I would not draft Neal, he looked terrible against UNLV and his INTs scare me. Otherwise, it looks good to me.

What do you think about Burrow (LSU) or Ehlinger (TEX)? Both have started 3 years (more than Trubisky), both should be mid-round picks, and have faced some tough competition. They faced each other earlier this year and both threw for over 400 yards and 4 TDs.