Thoughts on Fixing This Team...

[BearFan PHX]

4 hours ago, madlithuanian said:

I hear you and I too "want" a change.  But it's just not going to happen in-season.  

We will limp through as we always do.  Leopards don't change their spots.  I think we can all stomach a fail w/Tru.  Finding out Nagy is a bust would really set us back.  I even think a new GM isn't that big of a deal.  Changing a coaching staff sets us back.  If Pace can't draft first rounders, we can hope he hired the right coach still.  

 

yeah, Im not predicting that it will happen, Im just saying that if you dont want to fire Pace and start over, this year or even worse after next year, then you can get a jump on all of that and still keep part of the team together.

Again, Im not predicting it, but if we had strong ownership it would be a smart move.

Also, ***IF*** you can rehabilitate one of the two (Nagy or Trubisky) if you get rid of the other one, then Nagy is the smart one to get rid of, becasue you can replace him from within. Finding a franchise QB is a lot harder than finding a coach.

Now Im not saying that Trubisky is rehabilitable, but after all the value we've sunk into him itd be foolish not to find out.

If we cut Trubisky, and he does OK somewhere else, and Nagy never gets this right, then youre gonna see I was right, and it will have cost us a few years to find out what we can find out right now with a bold move.

[Stinger226]

Nagy was coach of the year last year and is 3-5 this year. The only game we have been out of in a year and a half was the NO game who is considered the best team in the NFC. Every other loss we had a chance to win at the end of the game. Its a matter of so many breakdowns all at once, bad OL, MT, play calling, D not up to par, Hicks hurt.  

Nagy has 1 and 1/2 years  experience at play calling in this league. They say the last 8 games he called plays in KC, but most people suspect still had his fingers on it. The league adjusted to to him and now he has to adjust.   I THINK HE FIGURES IT OUT.

The OL is playing bad.  We are suppose to have one of the better coaches OL coaches in the league.  THEY ARE CONCEDING THAT THE LINE PLAY CALLING MAY BE TO MUCH FOR A 21 YEAR OLD CENTER (PUT WHITEHAIR BACK AT CENTER) LONG WAS DONE AND COWARD IS GOING TO HAVE SOME GROWING PAINS. LENO AND MASSIE WERE NEVER STUDS AND JUST NEEDED TO GET FOCUSED MORE TO BE THE AVERAGE OTs THEY ARE.

MT  is who he is. MT HAS REGRESSED, NAGY NEEDS TO PLAY TO HIS STRENGTHS INSTEAD OF THINKING HE IS MOVING FORWARD. 

Last year we were blessed with good health. HICKS BEING HURT AFFECTS MANY ASPECTS OF THE D AND WE NEED TO ADJUST. NICHOLS HURTS A LOT FOR DEPTH. 

D not up to par.  WE CHANGED DC THIS YEAR AND PAGONO THOUGHT HE WAS GETTING 6 ALL PROS THIS YEAR. HICKS IS OUT, SMITH HAS SOME HEALTH ISSUE TO START THE SEASON. JACKSON HAS REGRESSED. THE O BEING SO BAD HAS PUT THE D ON THE FIELD TO MUCH AND IS HAS CONTRIBUTED TO FATIGUE AND BREAKDOWNS.

Everything is fixable except MT. Nagy will adjust, he is still a new coach with a 17-10 record. They are making changes to the OL , the switch and Long replaced. The play calling needs to put the OL in a better position to succeed. The D has played well for the most part, just need to get it off the field more so it avoids the fatigue at the end of games.Smith is playing better maybe Jackson was to full of his self after being All Pro last year and needs to focus.  

[Mongo3451]

My thoughts as well Stinger.

[Bill]

6 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

Nagy was coach of the year last year and is 3-5 this year. The only game we have been out of in a year and a half was the NO game who is considered the best team in the NFC. Every other loss we had a chance to win at the end of the game. Its a matter of so many breakdowns all at once, bad OL, MT, play calling, D not up to par, Hicks hurt.  

Nagy has 1 and 1/2 years  experience at play calling in this league. They say the last 8 games he called plays in KC, but most people suspect still had his fingers on it. The league adjusted to to him and now he has to adjust.   I THINK HE FIGURES IT OUT.

The OL is playing bad.  We are suppose to have one of the better coaches OL coaches in the league.  THEY ARE CONCEDING THAT THE LINE PLAY CALLING MAY BE TO MUCH FOR A 21 YEAR OLD CENTER (PUT WHITEHAIR BACK AT CENTER) LONG WAS DONE AND COWARD IS GOING TO HAVE SOME GROWING PAINS. LENO AND MASSIE WERE NEVER STUDS AND JUST NEEDED TO GET FOCUSED MORE TO BE THE AVERAGE OTs THEY ARE.

MT  is who he is. MT HAS REGRESSED, NAGY NEEDS TO PLAY TO HIS STRENGTHS INSTEAD OF THINKING HE IS MOVING FORWARD. 

Last year we were blessed with good health. HICKS BEING HURT AFFECTS MANY ASPECTS OF THE D AND WE NEED TO ADJUST. NICHOLS HURTS A LOT FOR DEPTH. 

D not up to par.  WE CHANGED DC THIS YEAR AND PAGONO THOUGHT HE WAS GETTING 6 ALL PROS THIS YEAR. HICKS IS OUT, SMITH HAS SOME HEALTH ISSUE TO START THE SEASON. JACKSON HAS REGRESSED. THE O BEING SO BAD HAS PUT THE D ON THE FIELD TO MUCH AND IS HAS CONTRIBUTED TO FATIGUE AND BREAKDOWNS.

Everything is fixable except MT. Nagy will adjust, he is still a new coach with a 17-10 record. They are making changes to the OL , the switch and Long replaced. The play calling needs to put the OL in a better position to succeed. The D has played well for the most part, just need to get it off the field more so it avoids the fatigue at the end of games.Smith is playing better maybe Jackson was to full of his self after being All Pro last year and needs to focus.  

Good points.

 This is still a good team but a team that has a lot of small problems and a couple big ones.  They are not going to tear everything down and start over.  If that's your fix than start with trading Mack.  Not saying that is your fix Stinger.  But they are not going to trade Mack, and they are not going to fire Pace or Nagy this year and most likely not next year either.  They should be given one more year to fix the really big problems.  Find a QB that can compete at an NFL level. I think there will be a couple available that can come in and at least make this team as it is now a playoff contender for the next few years. Figure out what your strengths and weakness are and devise an off. game plan that fits whom ever you have at QB next year.  Some of the, as of now busts, on off. need to be replaced in the up coming off season.  

[Stinger226]

Your right on all of your points. At this point , you can only win the game in front of you, so that is all they should be concentrating on. The future will take care of itself once the season is over. If they win the next three games, the narrative changes drastically. We had such high hopes and the season started out 3-1 with a waxing of Minny. The first quarter was a success. 3-1 The second quarter was a 0-4 bust. So in 5 quarters of football we have I bad quarter, one average quarter and 3 great quarters. The arrow is still pointing up, just saying.

[BearFan PHX]

Nagy was coach of the year last year, but he didnt have a running game then either.

He has a fatal flaw, and he is not gonna take us to the promised land.

You can be positive and watch the team flounder for a few more years and lose the defense, or you can see it now and give us a chance to salvage something.

[Stinger226]

NYC, I am not sure you can judge Nagy with  a 15-10 record as a head coach as being a bust quite yet. Last year was great, this year has yet to be determined. If we can get back to 8 wins or up, the get rid of him talk wont be happening. 

[BearFan PHX]

2 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

NYC, I am not sure you can judge Nagy with  a 15-10 record as a head coach as being a bust quite yet. Last year was great, this year has yet to be determined. If we can get back to 8 wins or up, the get rid of him talk wont be happening. 

I dont just judge on the record in a vacuum.

I am judging because he has never shown the ability to get the running game going, in KC, here last year or this year.

I am judging because the once dominant defense has lost its fire in a culture of disco dance parties and brotherly love even when people are screwing up.

I dont see what Nagy is doing well that is a reason to keep him.

More and more I think everyone including Pace is going to be fired at the end of this season.

But who will choose the next GM? I hope not the bears ownership.

Last time we let Ernie Accorsi do it. That was smart, even if this is how we ended up. I cant see them doing that again though.

This is very very bad - we have dug a hole that it will be very hard to get out of for several years.

I've tried to be optimistic and say that if you fire Nagy, you have a chance to see if a change of scenery affects the culture and recipe of this team before blowing it all up anyway.

But yes, it is not too early to judge Nagy. This is TERRIBLE football.

Now I appreciate the loyalty and character youre showing to stay open to him. I appreciate that in Nagy the man too. I wish this had been successful.

But this is football, and tough alpha coaches get results from physical competitive players.

But this team has rabies and someone needs to take it out behind the barn and put it out of its misery.

[adam]

NYC,
I see this more on Pace than anyone. Just look at the roster. Nagy was given a QB that he didn't want and who is severely limited in what he can do. The team is basically completely devoid of talent at the TE position and the Offensive Line is one of the worst in the league. There are 3 players that would be of interest to other teams on offense at this time: ARob, Montgomery and Whitehair, that's it. That's how you know its bad. 

Now Nagy is not without faults, he is a new HC, and he has a long way to go as a play-caller, but at some point, players have to make plays. The Bears receivers lead the league in drops and the offensive line is one of the most penalized in the league. I don't care how good you are, those are tough to overcome. 

Then you have Trubisky who is nowhere near where he should be as the #2 pick in his 3rd year. He rarely overcomes someone else's mistake. That's huge as a QB. Make a damn play when things are not going good. This has rarely happened. 

So just think if you are Nagy, you have Trubisky as your QB, that Offensive Line, a black hole at TE, and you are expected to salvage something from that. It's like making a cake with pudding. Everything has to work for a play to work. You can see that when it happens on scoring drives. However, it's all or nothing right now. When it's nothing, someone is almost always making a mistake.

I will hold judgment on Nagy until after this season, but if someone had to go for me today, it would be Pace 1st, then Trubisky. 

[Mongo3451]

14 minutes ago, adam said:

Nagy was given a QB that he didn't want and who is severely limited in what he can do.

Nagy was wanted by the Colts as well as the Bears.  As I recall, Nagy chose the Bears because he loved Trubisky and is on record stating that he loved him coming out of the draft.  I'm sure the compliments could be coach speak for his player, but you can't say he was handed Trubisky against his will, as he was already here.

[adam]

Back to original topic:

1. Fix O-Line: Keep going with O-Line adjustments, we will need to see what we can do with Leno and/or Massie. Once these guys got paid, they got lazy. I like the Whitehair move back to Center and I think the line will get better as the season goes on with this combination. 
2. Fix the TE position: This is absolutely broken. We need some playmakers. When JP Holtz is your best TE, you have a problem. We can't go into next season with Burton and Shaheen as our TEs. Shaheen will be cut as he was a healthy scratch today. So you have to figure out what to do with Burton and his ridiculous contract. I would not be opposed to cutting him and eating whatever salary cap you have to.
3. Do not bring Floyd back, and I would consider only bringing him in on obvious passing downs (3rd and longs) for the rest of the year. He gets manhandled by pretty much any offensive player blocking him. Every now and then his name is called when a QB holds the ball too long, but that's it.
4. Replace Special Teams Coach: there is no way we should have punts blocked as many times as we have. This has to be fixed.
5. Unless the Bears win 10 games and Trubisky is the reason they win some games, you have to bring in competition for him this offseason and draft one in 2020. The only way I would go with Trubisky is if he actually shows some progression in his development by the end of the year.  I want him to carry this team when we need him to. Consistency would also be huge to see.
6. Play calling: If this anemic offense is due to play calling, you have to bring someone else up or in to takeover play calling. It's hard to assess this objectively with how bad some of the offense components have performed.  
7. If you are looking to shake up the organization, you have to start with Pace. It's his roster construction and contracts. Obviously a new GM might want his own HC, so this would more than likely start a domino effect. However, I don't know how you move on from Nagy before moving on from Pace.

[adam]

25 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

Nagy was wanted by the Colts as well as the Bears.  As I recall, Nagy chose the Bears because he loved Trubisky and is on record stating that he loved him coming out of the draft.  I'm sure the compliments could be coach speak for his player, but you can't say he was handed Trubisky against his will, as he was already here.

I was talking about during the draft.  KC had Mahomes as their #1 QB. 

[Mongo3451]

2 hours ago, adam said:

I was talking about during the draft.  KC had Mahomes as their #1 QB. 

I get it, but...

https://amp.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000950270/article/matt-nagymitch-trubisky-bond-predates-chicago-bears-days?networkId=4595&site=.news&zone=story&zoneUrl=url%3Dstory&zoneKeys=s1%3Dstory&env&pageKeyValues=prtnr%3Dchi%3Bteam%3Dchi%3Bconf%3Dnfc%3Bdvsn%3Dncn%3Bplyr%3Dpatrick_mahomes%3Bplyr%3Dbrett_hundley&sr=amp

[adam]

10 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

I get it, but...

https://amp.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000950270/article/matt-nagymitch-trubisky-bond-predates-chicago-bears-days?networkId=4595&site=.news&zone=story&zoneUrl=url%3Dstory&zoneKeys=s1%3Dstory&env&pageKeyValues=prtnr%3Dchi%3Bteam%3Dchi%3Bconf%3Dnfc%3Bdvsn%3Dncn%3Bplyr%3Dpatrick_mahomes%3Bplyr%3Dbrett_hundley&sr=amp

Yeah, if you read some of the articles from the 2017's, KC brought in several QBs for this long session (6-8 hrs). It's funny because most of the articles mention Mahomes standing out and even Andy Reid mentioning Watson, but nothing Trubisky. Also, KC was locked in on Mahomes as their pick (if available) for months leading up to the draft. Check out these articles here:

https://sports.yahoo.com/chiefs-finally-found-franchise-quarterback-patrick-mahomes-165452074.html

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/vahe-gregorian/article224263285.html

Most of the articles I have read stated that Nagy met with Trubisky a few times, in KC and in Indy before the draft. The team also did that with other QB prospects and liked Mahomes and Watson better. 

It doesn't matter now, can't undo history. Hopefully, the team can salvage something this year and make the right moves to be competitive next year. Unfortunately, we are teetering on implosion mainly because Pace drafted the wrong QB 3 years ago.

[Mongo3451]

The truth is, they locked onto Mahomes because they knew he was all they were gonna get.  Also you can apply the Brady theory of hindsight to it.  Wouldn't you trade up further to get that pick of you think he's that good?

[adam]

3 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

The truth is, they locked onto Mahomes because they knew he was all they were gonna get.  Also you can apply the Brady theory of hindsight to it.  Wouldn't you trade up further to get that pick of you think he's that good?

Mongo,
There is no way you are going to know how a draft is going to play out. Draft boards are not created with players who the team feels will be there. If they did that, every draft board would be flawed with huge holes. There are few times where you can take a player off the board as a consensus #1 when you are picking #10. However, no one even knew if CLE would draft a QB or not. It comes down to the fact that Mahomes was their #1 QB and they got him. It was as easy as that. 

About trading up, they traded 2x firsts to move up. They were not even in a position to draft Mahomes with their original pick. They gave up what they could and did. To move up any further would've been a Hershel Walker type of trade that most teams just don't do anymore. 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

For this particular draft and these three QBs; Watson has the most credibility (IMHO) simply due to his ability to make it to back to back National Championships and play almost identically in both games; one time winning against an NFL prospect filled team in Alabama.  Mahomes was the  ‘riskier, gunslinger type’ QB (the anti-Alex Smith in fact) that for whatever reason Reid and the KC staff decided to take a risk on.  
 

Trubisky...was a 13 game starter with a 10-3 (?) record playing for NCAA football powerhouse NC.  (Yes there is a bit of a sarcasm there. 
 

Even Tom Brady had two years of starting at Michigan before he was drafted...in the sixth round.  It’s possible Mahomes could be the next Jameis Winston (himself a risk taker but relatively successful QB in college) and start to flame out in the NFL after another year or two.  Or Watson could be the next Cam Newton (not only a successful college QB and national champion but also Heisman winner) where now people wonder if he has the spirit left in him and where he’ll be next year.  But Trubisky is who we thought he was; and that was not a second round pick.