Post mortem

[Alaskan Grizzly]

So now that the season is prematurely over, what next?

There were two moments in last nights game that made me go ?!?!.   One was the declined penalty for ‘running into the kicker’ against LA.  And the shit Nagy pulled late in the game when he pulled Trubiksy.  Was he injured like you claim he was or ????  If in fact he was injured as you claim, and he ‘wasn’t right’ throughout the game; why then?  And to put Miller in that situation ... just all around pathetic.

To be a Bears fan is tough enough but to have to air the mess that is our current team on national TV is purely disgraceful. 

[BearFan PHX]

agree, whatever there is to be said about the roster, how the players have performed etc etc, this "all star" staff deserves a lot of blame.

[madlithuanian]

6 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

So now that the season is prematurely over, what next?

There were two moments in last nights game that made me go ?!?!.   One was the declined penalty for ‘running into the kicker’ against LA.  And the shit Nagy pulled late in the game when he pulled Trubiksy.  Was he injured like you claim he was or ????  If in fact he was injured as you claim, and he ‘wasn’t right’ throughout the game; why then?  And to put Miller in that situation ... just all around pathetic.

To be a Bears fan is tough enough but to have to air the mess that is our current team on national TV is purely disgraceful. 

My glass is no longer half full regarding anything with this franchise.  It's as bone dry as the Saharan desert...

It's like family.  You can't choose them like you can choose your freinds.  I'd give about anything to just jump on the Patriots or Baltimore bandwagon and feel what it likes to have a completent well run professional team to root for.  But, I can't.  I'm stuck in our own personal Hell as we wait this regime to be ousted and let the next one try and build for a few years.  Easily 5 years from now until we are relevant again.

1.  We have no QB.  I really like Tru as a person, but not as a QB.  He aint' it.  Neither is Chase. 

2.  We have no TE's.  Burton flashed last year, and then faded.  We've not had completent TE play since then.  Shaheen is yet another Pace miscue.

3.  Cohen, Gabriel and Miller are nice.  But I've had it with Mighty Mouses.  Cohen can return, and the other guys flash, but they mess up far more often than one would like.  And when going against defenders, unless you place the ball ridiculously perfect, their height challenged bodies can't get open from DB's.  Sorry, I'm short too.  I don't play agasint 6'7" monster men.  They simply aren't good enough to make up for the height issue.  No one here is Steve Smith in the bunch.  

4.  Nagy is a fool.  He's a fraud.  His game plan and play calling are meant to light up a Madden opponent.  Not a real football team.  He's so intent on being tricky, he's eschewing winning for trying to be right.  F him.  I hate him.  I hate that dumb visor.  I hate that he's a nice guy cheerleader.  That's all he is.  He is a f'ing joke.  From the Andy Reid tree.  Well, la-di-frickin-da.  Reid's sorry a$$ has never won despite the regular season epic numbers he puts up.  Great for fantasy, not so much in reality.  Nagy is the dumba$$ who mis-called the big playoff game for them years back and somehow parlayed that into our HC gig.  I swear I bought right into it and probably would've bought the Brooklyn Bridge had it been offfered.  Then he gets Helfrich.  Who?  College proven only - nothing pro.  Heistand the genuis, who can't seem to teach guys jack now.  And then Childress!?  HA!!!!!!!!!!!  That clown sucked when we went against him when he was in Minny.  Again, never won jack.  The Reid tree...a diseased tree of puss and manure.

5.  Pace can pound sand.  Right now, SF and the Raiders are laughing all the way to the bank with our trades with them . If I could undo the Mack trade, I wouldn't.  But, it's only because Pace would pick complete garbage with the first round picks while somehow trading up w/ ghosts in order to rid ourselves of those pesky first round picks in a couple years.  F Pace.  He can eat a bag of you know what.

6.  I am challenging myslef now.  To not believe in this horribly run franchise.  They have not earned the right of fans to have any hope.  Until they PROVE they can put 2 successive successful seasons together, I will assume we will be the clown show that we always are.  I will still root, because it's my damn blood.  But, I wll refuse to believe until then.

7.  See #6 regarding giving any money to this franchise.  I will not attend a game.  I will not buy any product.  Nothing.  You get no more of my money McCaskeys until you give me something in return. 

Rant over.  I needed to purge that.  Thanks for placating me.  I'm still here as a loyal follower.  But, I will approach it with trepidation and cautiousness never trusting in this franchise until proven otherwise.  I thought last year was the corner turned.  Wow...  Man, was I wrong.  Last year was the anomaly. 

As the Talking Heads said..."Same as it ever was..."  

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Well now I know what MadLith needs for Christmas; more Lagavulin!!  LOL  

In all the years I've known you I don't think you've ever been so frank and candid, usually more "glass half-full" type guy...as you've professed for years.  But I feel your pain and totally get it.  This is a mess top to bottom.  Sad it won't be fixed anytime soon I'm afraid.

 

[madlithuanian]

13 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Well now I know what MadLith needs for Christmas; more Lagavulin!!  LOL  

In all the years I've known you I don't think you've ever been so frank and candid, usually more "glass half-full" type guy...as you've professed for years.  But I feel your pain and totally get it.  This is a mess top to bottom.  Sad it won't be fixed anytime soon I'm afraid.

 

Yes!   The Offerman 11 year please!    

I guess I just feel taken advantage of by this team.  Sold a bill of goods that any reasonable person would expect a refund for...   

This is why so many fans still pine for '85 and the Url years.  It's all we have.  

 

[BearFan PHX]

OK, so now I think it has become obvious that Nagy and a lot of the staff are going to get fired.

Here's my rundown, top down

PACE

I'm 50/50 on him. I could see firing him and bringing in someone new to clean house entirely. Understand that we have no first round pick, so the new guy is probably gonna trade Mack for picks to fix this mess.

There are a bunch of good QBs coming in the draft, so many that we might not need a high first round pick to get a good one with a future. The money we were earmarking for Trubkisy in the long term cap plan will now be available for free agent OL, DL and pass rushers, if we go with another cap friendly rookie deal QB through the draft.

We might also sign a guy like Teddy Bridgewater. Serviceable, but never going to be a top 5 guy.

So the question on Pace is fire him, and lose Mack, or keep him and try to keep Mack.

You may argue that Pace hasnt shown he can choose a QB anyway. Then again, the McCaskey's havent shown they can choose a GM either, so pick your poison.

Personally, I'm 50/50 on it. What you've heard me argue the last few weeks is that they should can Nagy to see what the OC can do with Trubisky and calling the plays. We are rapidly running out of time for that scenario, so now, if you wanna keep Mack, you might keep Pace. I dunno.

NAGY

MadLith said it all. Video game midget football. Seriously. You build a defense and won't run the ball on offense to play complimentary ball. Buddy Ryan would have punched him already. Please goodbye Nagy.

THE REST OF THE STAFF

You gotta let the new head coach pick his guys. Is there really anyone you're gonna cry over leaving? Pagano? Heistand?! Nope. Goodbye to all of em.

So maybe you keep Pace, but only if he's gonna bring in a new staff. Would he? Crap that risk alone might be reason to fire him.

PLAYERS

QB

We need one. I like the draft class at QB coming up this year but we dont have a first round pick. Then again, the QB class is very deep. Maybe we can get one in the late first round or early second. The league cant pick the good ones anyway before they play in the NFL, so who's to say the guy we get wont be awesome. There are a bunch of good ones this year.

I assume we will want a vet for the rookie to play behind until he's ready. Dont spend Glennon money on that guy. Bridgewater is a good one. But not a great one.

If the new coach wants to keep Trubisky and use him differently as the vet the new rookie plays behind thats fine - it gives us a few long shot good outcomes. If thats too politically difficult, thats fine too. Just let the new head coach be part of that decision.

RB

Montgomery is great. Cohen is a good 3rd down back / kick returner in a normal system. Were are good at RB, and Jordan Howard is a one trick pony, and we are better off.

WR

We have some good ones. Robinson is a legit #1. There are other up and comers in the pipeline. Wims, Miller and Ridley come to mind. If Gabriel sticks around for another year as a slot guy so be it. We might have to retool a bit if we go to a larger west coast offense, but we are in pretty good shape and dont need a serious Free Agent or anything.

OL

Trash. Horrible. Look for the most change here. What Pace did to the WR squad after Fox left, is what the Gm will do to the OL. This is one of the main areas that free agency money will go to. A new scheme will help a lot too. THese giuys were pulling all over the place, and we need some guys that can just move people. This will probably be a two year project to get totally right.

TE

Bad news. I dunno if we can fix this this year with all the other issues. Probably a mid tier free agent comes in.

DEFENSIVE FRONT SEVEN

We miss Hicks bad. He will be back though, and when you put him next to Mack, good things happen.
Still, we clearly need another pass rusher, whether from DE or more likely in Floyd's slot. We won't have the draft capital for it either, so this is gonna be a free agent until the draft after this one at least.

SECONDARY

We are gonna need at least one CB. Again, this is probably going to have to be a free agent as draft picks learn behind.

KICKER

um, yeah.

So this year's draft probably looks like

QB, OL, OLB, CB, OL

and this year's free agents

QB, CB, OL, OL, TE

It's a two year plan at least.

It's not ALL bad news, but imagine if we'd fired Nagy two weeks ago, and the OC had established the run and Trubisky played regular vanilla offense and the Defense played OK. THAT's what Ive been talking about. We had a chance, of possibly saving a year off of that plan if we could prove that would work - that Nagy was the problem. But now, we cant waste another year to find that out and that possibility is gone.

Flip a coin on Pace, but fire the rest either way.

Do you want to keep Mack, or get two first round picks for him?

 

[madlithuanian]

1 minute ago, BearFan NYC said:

OK, so now I think it has become obvious that Nagy and a lot of the staff are going to get fired.

Here's my rundown, top down

PACE

I'm 50/50 on him. I could see firing him and bringing in someone new to clean house entirely. Understand that we have no first round pick, so the new guy is probably gonna trade Mack for picks to fix this mess.

There are a bunch of good QBs coming in the draft, so many that we might not need a high first round pick to get a good one with a future. The money we were earmarking for Trubkisy in the long term cap plan will now be available for free agent OL, DL and pass rushers, if we go with another cap friendly rookie deal QB through the draft.

We might also sign a guy like Teddy Bridgewater. Serviceable, but never going to be a top 5 guy.

So the question on Pace is fire him, and lose Mack, or keep him and try to keep Mack.

You may argue that Pace hasnt shown he can choose a QB anyway. Then again, the McCaskey's havent shown they can choose a GM either, so pick your poison.

Personally, I'm 50/50 on it. What you've heard me argue the last few weeks is that they should can Nagy to see what the OC can do with Trubisky and calling the plays. We are rapidly running out of time for that scenario, so now, if you wanna keep Mack, you might keep Pace. I dunno.

NAGY

MadLith said it all. Video game midget football. Seriously. You build a defense and won't run the ball on offense to play complimentary ball. Buddy Ryan would have punched him already. Please goodbye Nagy.

THE REST OF THE STAFF

You gotta let the new head coach pick his guys. Is there really anyone you're gonna cry over leaving? Pagano? Heistand?! Nope. Goodbye to all of em.

So maybe you keep Pace, but only if he's gonna bring in a new staff. Would he? Crap that risk alone might be reason to fire him.

PLAYERS

QB

We need one. I like the draft class at QB coming up this year but we dont have a first round pick. Then again, the QB class is very deep. Maybe we can get one in the late first round or early second. The league cant pick the good ones anyway before they play in the NFL, so who's to say the guy we get wont be awesome. There are a bunch of good ones this year.

I assume we will want a vet for the rookie to play behind until he's ready. Dont spend Glennon money on that guy. Bridgewater is a good one. But not a great one.

If the new coach wants to keep Trubisky and use him differently as the vet the new rookie plays behind thats fine - it gives us a few long shot good outcomes. If thats too politically difficult, thats fine too. Just let the new head coach be part of that decision.

RB

Montgomery is great. Cohen is a good 3rd down back / kick returner in a normal system. Were are good at RB, and Jordan Howard is a one trick pony, and we are better off.

WR

We have some good ones. Robinson is a legit #1. There are other up and comers in the pipeline. Wims, Miller and Ridley come to mind. If Gabriel sticks around for another year as a slot guy so be it. We might have to retool a bit if we go to a larger west coast offense, but we are in pretty good shape and dont need a serious Free Agent or anything.

OL

Trash. Horrible. Look for the most change here. What Pace did to the WR squad after Fox left, is what the Gm will do to the OL. This is one of the main areas that free agency money will go to. A new scheme will help a lot too. THese giuys were pulling all over the place, and we need some guys that can just move people. This will probably be a two year project to get totally right.

TE

Bad news. I dunno if we can fix this this year with all the other issues. Probably a mid tier free agent comes in.

DEFENSIVE FRONT SEVEN

We miss Hicks bad. He will be back though, and when you put him next to Mack, good things happen.
Still, we clearly need another pass rusher, whether from DE or more likely in Floyd's slot. We won't have the draft capital for it either, so this is gonna be a free agent until the draft after this one at least.

SECONDARY

We are gonna need at least one CB. Again, this is probably going to have to be a free agent as draft picks learn behind.

KICKER

um, yeah.

So this year's draft probably looks like

QB, OL, OLB, CB, OL

and this year's free agents

QB, CB, OL, OL, TE

It's a two year plan at least.

It's not ALL bad news, but imagine if we'd fired Nagy two weeks ago, and the OC had established the run and Trubisky played regular vanilla offense and the Defense played OK. THAT's what Ive been talking about. We had a chance, of possibly saving a year off of that plan if we could prove that would work - that Nagy was the problem. But now, we cant waste another year to find that out and that possibility is gone.

Flip a coin on Pace, but fire the rest either way.

Do you want to keep Mack, or get two first round picks for him?

 

I truly wish they will can Nagy, but unless he epicly loses the next 6 weeks, they will bring all the clowns back.  Unless somehow, Pace convinces the McCaskeys that it's all Nagy's fault and gets one more shot at a QB and coach.  (I'd really like Dave Toub as HC...)

I want a complete re-boot. 

You keep Mack.  He's been disappointing this season, but he's still more valuable than 2 potnential failed picks.  Especially if Pace is doing the picking!

You player personnell plan, I'd love to see happen!

[BearFan PHX]

Said simply - ***IF*** you keep Pace, it HAS to be to fire the staff and try again.

If you keep them all, you deserve to burn at the bottom of the NFC North until they sell the team.

There really should be no way that Pace AND Nagy are back next year. If that means you gotta fire Pace, then there's the door for all of them. But under no scenario should they keep Nagy. If they do, the fans will revolt. They have to fire him.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

To be fair, in yesterday’s game the defense held up their end of the bargain for as long as they could.  They had three(?) turnovers early in the game and put the offense in a relatively favorable position in almost each of those three times . Due to the combination of the offenses ineptitude and Pineriro suddenly sucking horribly... (whose idea was it to send Gould packing?), nothing came of it. I’m thinking the defense lost its motivation after seeing the offense (yet again and again and again) fail to convert.  
 

All that being said, I still am of the opinion that it doesn’t need to be burned down entirely but only partially.  Send Nagy back to KC and let Pagano take the team to the end of the season.  I know this was suggested by another and I personally think Pagano could make a decent go at it if given the chance.  Who knows,  maybe next season Fangio will get fired and could come back to Chicago as the DC?  And maybe Luck will be ready to come out of retirement and play for Pagano again?  Stranger things have happened...

[Connorbear]

50 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

To be fair, in yesterday’s game the defense held up their end of the bargain for as long as they could.  They had three(?) turnovers early in the game and put the offense in a relatively favorable position in almost each of those three times . Due to the combination of the offenses ineptitude and Pineriro suddenly sucking horribly... (whose idea was it to send Gould packing?), nothing came of it. I’m thinking the defense lost its motivation after seeing the offense (yet again and again and again) fail to convert.  
 

All that being said, I still am of the opinion that it doesn’t need to be burned down entirely but only partially.  Send Nagy back to KC and let Pagano take the team to the end of the season.  I know this was suggested by another and I personally think Pagano could make a decent go at it if given the chance.  Who knows,  maybe next season Fangio will get fired and could come back to Chicago as the DC?  And maybe Luck will be ready to come out of retirement and play for Pagano again?  Stranger things have happened...

John Fox wanted Gould gone.  

Peace

[Alaskan Grizzly]

28 minutes ago, Connorbear said:

John Fox wanted Gould gone.  

Peace

Ok mayyybee...  story I found says Connor Barth became available (previously with NO) and had been familiar to Fox.  In his favor (Barth) was that he cost less and Gould was allegedly on a downward trend.  
 

I’ll still blame Pace.  Fox isn’t coaching right now so he’s paid his penance. 

[Mongo3451]

8 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Ok mayyybee...  story I found says Connor Barth became available (previously with NO) and had been familiar to Fox.  In his favor (Barth) was that he cost less and Gould was allegedly on a downward trend.  
 

I’ll still blame Pace.  Fox isn’t coaching right now so he’s paid his penance. 

Could was player rep and was not conforming to conversation Fox wanted in the locker room.  Remember how Fox was praised for building our winning culture during last year's run?  Pace being a young GM is definitely going to listen to a coach that had been there, done that.

[madlithuanian]

The Gould ship sailed long ago.  He's not even playing now and missed as many kicks as Pineiro...

Had SF not tagged him, sure.  But, we need to move forward not look backwards.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

1 hour ago, madlithuanian said:

The Gould ship sailed long ago.  He's not even playing now and missed as many kicks as Pineiro...

Had SF not tagged him, sure.  But, we need to move forward not look backwards.

Get your point Mad but this is more about the current big picture than it is where our kicking game is right now.  Like in another post you believe more of the problem lies with coaching than it does with the performance of Trubiksy.  Whereas I think the issue goes deeper than that.  

[madlithuanian]

2 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Get your point Mad but this is more about the current big picture than it is where our kicking game is right now.  Like in another post you believe more of the problem lies with coaching than it does with the performance of Trubiksy.  Whereas I think the issue goes deeper than that.  

No doubt.  The problem is also the GM and his inability to gauge talent correctly.   

[Mongo3451]

4 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Get your point Mad but this is more about the current big picture than it is where our kicking game is right now.  Like in another post you believe more of the problem lies with coaching than it does with the performance of Trubiksy.  Whereas I think the issue goes deeper than that.  

I think the kicking game goes hand in hand.  The team is ill.  Everybody has to be their best version of perfect, all the time, or we can't win.  Now everyone is tight.  Tight kickers miss kicks.  Tight pass rushers don't get sacks.  Tight QB's overthrow the wide open guy.  Tight receivers drop passes.

Right now, they are all tight because they care. It means it's fixable.  When you start hearing about on fighting and complaining, game over.