Mahomes vs Watson vs Trubisky Last Quarter of Season

[McGowan]

6 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

It’s a valid question.  Was watching that post game show I like with Briggs, Brown, Forte and Kreutz.  Briggs pointes out that we need to see continued play like last night from here on out to make a better determination.  
 

I think many of us are traumatically skeptical (I know I am) after all the years with Jay ‘Jekyll and Hyde’ Cutler and quite frankly similar play from Trubisky.  We see he’s capable; it’s just that can he maintain it?  We’ll know better after next week...and the week after...and the week after that. 

Honestly idk if we can know for sure until six weeks into next season. 

At least he's turned it around somewhat. That might be a bad thing as it wastes more time if it's just a hot streak. 

[Mongo3451]

1 hour ago, Elgin Slim said:

At least he's turned it around somewhat. That might be a bad thing as it wastes more time if it's just a hot streak. 

It's a hot streak, but nothing fancy has occurred to suggest anything that was not genuine.  So, this can be the norm with trickery to enhance.  Now they know what the base offense is.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

3 hours ago, Elgin Slim said:

Honestly idk if we can know for sure until six weeks into next season. 

Thing is when do they have to decide on his 5th year option?

[Mongo3451]

1 hour ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Thing is when do they have to decide on his 5th year option?

He's 100% gonna get his 5th year option.

[adam]

Hmmm, just think if Trubisky did this:

[AZ54]

It must be fake news but Watson only completed 56% of his passes and had two INTs.  

[adam]

Here are the last 5 weeks of the season to give a good sample size on the 2017 QBs most recent play (which is the most relevant). This is now more than a quarter of a season of play in the part of the season where every game matters:

Trubisky 117-176, 66.5%, 1223 yds, 6.95 Y/A, 11 TD, 5 INT, 2 Rush TD, 11 Sacks, 0 Fumbles lost (13 total TDs, 5 total Turnovers)

Watson 105-162, 64.8%, 1194 yds, 7.37 Y/A, 8 TD, 4 INT, 2 Rush TD, 14 Sacks, 1 Fumble lost (10 total TDs, 5 total Turnovers)

Mahomes 106-162, 65.4%, 1162 yds, 7.17 Y/A, 7 TD, 2 INT, 1 Rush TD, 5 Sacks,  0 Fumbles lost (8 total TDs, 2 total Turnovers)

Regardless of opponents, Mahomes has 11 TD passes in his last 8 games, Trubisky has 11 in his last 5. It's hard to go this long and not see that things have changed. Trubisky may truly have turned the corner.

[adam]

9 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

It must be fake news but Watson only completed 56% of his passes and had two INTs.  

Yep, and Mahomes had some terrible passes. All the INTs today were brutal. Trubisky's was on a toe tap and drag and he was ripped by the media for that throw. Look at Mahomes and Watson's interceptions, worse. The point is all QB's make good and bad throws, Trubisky has come under such scrutiny where he can't make one bad pass. The offensive struggles were not all his fault and now that is coming out. He is owed a ton of apologies and respect for fighting through that adversity. 

[Mongo3451]

Mahomes has superior talent at WR, OL and TE.

[adam]

2 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

Mahomes has superior talent at WR, OL and TE.

and has played worse than Trubisky over the last 5 weeks, but you will never see that in the mass media. Very odd at this point. There were a bunch of "experts" quick to jump on Trubisky for his one INT last game, yet you hear nothing about Mahomes or Watson when they do the same thing.

Even the NFL is in on it. Goff had almost an identical throw (to Trubisky's) through two Seahawks and his throw was a great throw through a small hole. When Trubisky does it, its a bad through into double coverage. I don't understand the disdain for the kid. It's not like he is Cutler or someone who is rude to the media. You can tell the entire team and locker room are behind this kid. It's just unfortunate that he continually gets crapped on by the national media minus a few smart analysts.

[BearFan PHX]

It's because we traded up for him, and the national media had no first hand knowledge that anyone was trying to trade for the #2 slot.

It's SO silly. But that's what narratives are.

[Mongo3451]

9 hours ago, adam said:

and has played worse than Trubisky over the last 5 weeks, but you will never see that in the mass media. Very odd at this point. There were a bunch of "experts" quick to jump on Trubisky for his one INT last game, yet you hear nothing about Mahomes or Watson when they do the same thing.

Even the NFL is in on it. Goff had almost an identical throw (to Trubisky's) through two Seahawks and his throw was a great throw through a small hole. When Trubisky does it, its a bad through into double coverage. I don't understand the disdain for the kid. It's not like he is Cutler or someone who is rude to the media. You can tell the entire team and locker room are behind this kid. It's just unfortunate that he continually gets crapped on by the national media minus a few smart analysts.

It's the narrative these days.  Since Trubisky got drafted 10 spots before Mahomes, it means failure.  It's crazy because it's the rarest sporting position on Earth.  Aikman isn't doing it anymore.  Let's see what Collinsworth does.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

22 hours ago, adam said:

Hmmm, just think if Trubisky did this:

'Devil's Advocate' here:  So Mahomes did close out with:     26/40 for 283 with 1 TD and 1 INT for a rating of 83.6.   This against the number one defense, in Foxborough.

Trubisky ended up with:  23/31 for 244 yards with 3 TDs and 1 INT for a rating of 115.5.  This against the number #12 overall defense in Chicago.

 

Trubisky did what he had to do against a team he (they) needed to beat, in the circumstances afforded him.  As did Mahomes.  Neither lost the game for their respective team.  The guy who only a year ago was chosen as the NFL MVP after throwing 50 TD passes has less to prove than does the #2 overall pick from that same year.  

 

 

[adam]

2 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

'Devil's Advocate' here:  So Mahomes did close out with:     26/40 for 283 with 1 TD and 1 INT for a rating of 83.6.   This against the number one defense, in Foxborough.

Trubisky ended up with:  23/31 for 244 yards with 3 TDs and 1 INT for a rating of 115.5.  This against the number #12 overall defense in Chicago.

 

Trubisky did what he had to do against a team he (they) needed to beat, in the circumstances afforded him.  As did Mahomes.  Neither lost the game for their respective team.  The guy who only a year ago was chosen as the NFL MVP after throwing 50 TD passes has less to prove than does the #2 overall pick from that same year.  

 

 

Oh, I was not comparing what he did to Trubisky, I was just saying that Trubisky has zero margin for error. His pick, that was a toe tap and drag on the sideline was a bad throw. Mahomes throw into clear double coverage (with the ball underthrown) was a good play by the defender.

KC got away with murder in NE. The refs had to be from KC. That was in the top 5 of the worst officiating games I have ever seen. 

[Connorbear]

3 hours ago, adam said:

KC got away with murder in NE. The refs had to be from KC. That was in the top 5 of the worst officiating games I have ever seen. 

The NFL has the worst officiating of any professional sport and it isn't even close. It is embarrassing how bad it is given the revenue the league makes. 

Peace

[Mongo3451]

41 minutes ago, Connorbear said:

The NFL has the worst officiating of any professional sport and it isn't even close. It is embarrassing how bad it is given the revenue the league makes. 

Peace

You don't watch NBA, do you?  Lol.  Agreed, this is the worst year ever for refs.

[adam]

11 hours ago, Connorbear said:

The NFL has the worst officiating of any professional sport and it isn't even close. It is embarrassing how bad it is given the revenue the league makes. 

Peace

It has been bad for several years now and it seems with every rule change, it actually gets worse. With all the technology today, I don't understand why they don't leverage some of it. They could easily put sensors in each of the balls (at the tips) to determine the spotting of the ball, they can have the sky judge in the stadium to assist with calls that are hard to see from ground level. The one thing I will point out is that most TV viewers and those in the stadium have a better view of what's going on than some of the officials on the field. So that's why the ones they see, they have to get right. 

They also need to spell out the rules for holding and pass interference better to make less of a gray area. 

[Connorbear]

13 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

You don't watch NBA, do you?  Lol.  Agreed, this is the worst year ever for refs.

The NBA is definitely second. 

Peace

[Lucky Luciano]

On 12/10/2019 at 8:31 AM, adam said:

They also need to spell out the rules for holding and pass interference better to make less of a gray area. 

this is exactly the problem with the nfl officiating. the way some rules read the refs are correct either way they make the call. this takes the win/loss out of the players hands and puts it into the refs which leads to an easy ground floor for corruption or just plain stupidity.

every single play could/should be called for holding on multiple players on the offensive line. from the 80's or possibly the 90's on back there were clear cut holding parameters. now it takes a major wrestling move take down or a near jersey removal to draw the non subjective flag.

the refs can flag a team at any time they choose thus dictating the flow and scoring of the game. i have seen this many times and they will usually have makeup calls or evening out of penalties later in the game for the opposing team. usually by that time the outcome of the game has been decided or at the least given one team a tremendous advantage.

[adam]

7 hours ago, Lucky Luciano said:

this is exactly the problem with the nfl officiating. the way some rules read the refs are correct either way they make the call. this takes the win/loss out of the players hands and puts it into the refs which leads to an easy ground floor for corruption or just plain stupidity.

every single play could/should be called for holding on multiple players on the offensive line. from the 80's or possibly the 90's on back there were clear cut holding parameters. now it takes a major wrestling move take down or a near jersey removal to draw the non subjective flag.

the refs can flag a team at any time they choose thus dictating the flow and scoring of the game. i have seen this many times and they will usually have makeup calls or evening out of penalties later in the game for the opposing team. usually by that time the outcome of the game has been decided or at the least given one team a tremendous advantage.

There is another component to this as well. Refs can either miss a call by not calling a legitimate penalty or by calling a penalty that was a legal play. Both are bad and the Bears seem to be subject to a ton of the phantom calls this year, and with Mack held on every play, I am surprised the team didn't send anything into the league complaining about it. This week is Holding Week and the under/over on missed GB holding calls is 8.

[AZ54]

13 hours ago, Lucky Luciano said:

this is exactly the problem with the nfl officiating. the way some rules read the refs are correct either way they make the call. this takes the win/loss out of the players hands and puts it into the refs which leads to an easy ground floor for corruption or just plain stupidity.

every single play could/should be called for holding on multiple players on the offensive line. from the 80's or possibly the 90's on back there were clear cut holding parameters. now it takes a major wrestling move take down or a near jersey removal to draw the non subjective flag.

the refs can flag a team at any time they choose thus dictating the flow and scoring of the game. i have seen this many times and they will usually have makeup calls or evening out of penalties later in the game for the opposing team. usually by that time the outcome of the game has been decided or at the least given one team a tremendous advantage.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say they grew more lax calling holding penalties the more focused they got on QB safety and keeping them from getting injured.   That comes from the owners who understandably want to protect their main asset.  Fans feel the same way when it's their QB who got injured.  

[Lucky Luciano]

15 hours ago, adam said:

There is another component to this as well. Refs can either miss a call by not calling a legitimate penalty or by calling a penalty that was a legal play. Both are bad and the Bears seem to be subject to a ton of the phantom calls this year, and with Mack held on every play, I am surprised the team didn't send anything into the league complaining about it. This week is Holding Week and the under/over on missed GB holding calls is 8.

i agree this happens and that is one of the downfalls in any sport. that said, there were/are review boards (i believe) that would review referee's. if there were obvious mishandling of officiating they could be demoted or just plain let go. this has been the case since the beginning of the sport.

but, with the rules or lack of rules on holding or pass interference they have basically made it impossible to grade a ref on these calls as the calls are legitimate either way he calls them.

[Lucky Luciano]

9 hours ago, AZ54 said:

I'm going to go out on a limb and say they grew more lax calling holding penalties the more focused they got on QB safety and keeping them from getting injured.   That comes from the owners who understandably want to protect their main asset.  Fans feel the same way when it's their QB who got injured.  

i agree, especially in today's nfl.

even prior to the huge amount of expansion teams added to the nfl, the position of quarterback was lacking for high quality players.

with that said it still is a travesty that the owners and the league have not addressed this problem. with an either or rule you have put way to much power into the hands of referee's and opened up the sport to the gambling faction and organized crime. add to this, you have less ability to judge a ref's work and hold him accountable if he is just plain bad at his job.

[adam]

After his first 300-yard game of the season, Trubisky now only needs 450 yards to get to a career-high in passing yards with 2 games to play (225 yard average). He is also 8 completions from a career-high but will need 8 TDs if he wants to break his career-high of 24. I doubt he gets the TDs, but the other should be fairly easy to reach. 

At this point, there not much to play for other than pride (or draft position), KC has clinched a playoff spot and is only playing for seeding. As the #3, they would need some help to get a bye. 

The Minnesota game may have more value as Minnesota is still in the hunt for the Division and WC seeding. It's crazy to think GB is the #2 seed and tied with Seattle with 11 wins and GB could end up as the #1 seed if GB wins their last 2 and Seattle loses one of their last two.

[AZ54]

1 hour ago, adam said:

After his first 300-yard game of the season, Trubisky now only needs 450 yards to get to a career-high in passing yards with 2 games to play (225 yard average). He is also 8 completions from a career-high but will need 8 TDs if he wants to break his career-high of 24. I doubt he gets the TDs, but the other should be fairly easy to reach. 

At this point, there not much to play for other than pride (or draft position), KC has clinched a playoff spot and is only playing for seeding. As the #3, they would need some help to get a bye. 

The Minnesota game may have more value as Minnesota is still in the hunt for the Division and WC seeding. It's crazy to think GB is the #2 seed and tied with Seattle with 11 wins and GB could end up as the #1 seed if GB wins their last 2 and Seattle loses one of their last two.

We need to see the youngsters in the next two games.  Bench Amukamara and let Tolliver play.  We're already seeing Horsted and Holtz at TE.  It's time to give Nall some carries and see what happens.  Ridley needs more snaps (he did today) as does Wims, even if some come at the expense of Robinson.  We might as well take care of the best WR we have but this also has to be measured against making sure Trubisky has every opportunity to continue his improvement.  There were at least two passes today where receivers either slipped (Cohen)  or quit on routes (Miller) and the ball looked like it was thrown to nobody.