Pace, Nagy and Trubisky all staying

[BearFan PHX]

Oh boy.

It is clear that Pace and Nagy are staying, and they affirmed that Trubisky is their guy today.

Even worse, when they, and Ted Phillips spoke, they mentioned the offense as a whole, giving examples of bad routes, bad QB choices, bad play calling, and unproductive running. Literally EVERYTHING but the OL.

Now I understand, this may mean they are in the market for OL and/or QB and they dont want to telegraph that. So it's hard to read them.

But we can look to this past season to see what they adjusted and what they didn't.

Apparently, they all have each other's backs. The only possible leadership move this year would be to fire Pace if he wont fire Nagy. But they won't.

They are going to gamble next year on the idea that they were right this year and it just didnt happen for whatever reason.

I am telling you, we will not be a good team until Nagy leaves. And if it takes another year, then thats one less year of Mack you have to build on. Not to mention we have to wait a whole year more just to START fixing the problem.

This is a disaster.

Does anyone know if they had a club dub after BARELY beating the Vikings second stringers to secure an 8-8 outcome?

[BearFan PHX]

just saw they fired Helfrich, Hiestand, Gilbride and a ST assistant.

You can bring in a run specialist OC who doesnt call plays to try to balance out Nagy, but it begs the question. WHY IS NAGY WORTH THAT??

[Alaskan Grizzly]

2 minutes ago, BearFan NYC said:

just saw they fired Helfrich, Hiestand, Gilbride and a ST assistant.

You can bring in a run specialist OC who doesnt call plays to try to balance out Nagy, but it begs the question. WHY IS NAGY WORTH THAT??

Was just reading the news about Helfrich.  IMHO he is the fall guy or patsy for Nagy and by some extension Pace.  We all know Pace can not afford to admit Trubisky isn’t what he hoped he’d be.  And because he hired Nagy to groom Trubisky (and failed so far), they’re all interconnected.  Canning Helfrich buys them all more time.  And that’s because they think none of us are paying attention or at least hope we aren’t.  You can’t tell me that Nagy didn’t call and orchestrate most of the offensive play calling this year.  But another year of 8-8 and subpar offensive performance will put them all on the block.  
 

PS...I’m personally glad to see Pagano is safe...for now. 

[Connorbear]

Either they are doubling down on Mitch or they are blowing smoke. Either way, they're gone if they don't make the playoffs IMO. 

Peace

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Just thinking out loud here; but how does QB Coach Dave Ragone figure in all this?  Because I was curious and occasionally do some actual ‘research’ I found he was the only offensive carry over from the Fox era.  And was credited for Trubiksy’s partial success last year.  So shouldn’t he be partly to blame for Trubiksy’s regression as well?  Or perhaps more appropriately, his stagnation?  It seems odd that Heistand and Helfrich were canned for their ‘failures’ so too should Ragone.  Or maybe they’re planning on keeping him for next year in case they need another patsy? 

[BearFan PHX]

So true.

Pace had a chance here to do something bold. Admittedly, it would be risky.

But he could have saved himself by firing Nagy and bringing in someone else. Even keeping Trubisky, and bringing in competition of course.

But instead they went with the "we still believe in each other" route. And while it seems really moral on the surface, what it means is "we are still staying on course, so we believe that what we did was RIGHT and the cards just havent come up right for us yet" AND THAT is BULLSHIT.

I dont care if they lie to me in the press conference. It'd almost be malpractice if they didnt. But doubling down on this Nagy stuff is a really bad bet.

And now Pace truly is hitched to Nagy. When they both get fired after next year we can begin a 3 year building program.

And based on that, I want their heads NOW.

Do it Virginia, youre the only one that can.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

The Bears never fire a coach this early in a contract. Record wise, he deserves another year even though I think it was him that regressed the unit. They probably didn't want to fire all the assistants they did, but they had to do something.  What they need to do is bring in a real OC that can design an offense to our player strengths or get the players Nagy needs for his. Which one is easier? 

The RPO should only be used when a lead is established as a change of pace. Stick to power run with play action since the line cannot do the in between garbage guessing what the QB reads. 

As for players to bring in, get a TE you can count on, this is #1. Find a road grading RG and a LT to challenge both OTs.  Defensively they need a OLB that can get to the QB if they decide to double or triple Mack.  Find a DB or two if Tolliver/Shelly isn't ready and if HHCD walks.  They can use a speed WR and another RB to knock Cohen to #3.  

The 3rd place schedule should make the Bears better alone.  Health, a few additions, and an offense that works should bring some hype back.  Let it play out. If not, then 2021 we should have ammo to rebuild QB and more.

[AZ54]

41 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

The Bears never fire a coach this early in a contract. Record wise, he deserves another year even though I think it was him that regressed the unit. They probably didn't want to fire all the assistants they did, but they had to do something.  What they need to do is bring in a real OC that can design an offense to our player strengths or get the players Nagy needs for his. Which one is easier? 

The RPO should only be used when a lead is established as a change of pace. Stick to power run with play action since the line cannot do the in between garbage guessing what the QB reads. 

As for players to bring in, get a TE you can count on, this is #1. Find a road grading RG and a LT to challenge both OTs.  Defensively they need a OLB that can get to the QB if they decide to double or triple Mack.  Find a DB or two if Tolliver/Shelly isn't ready and if HHCD walks.  They can use a speed WR and another RB to knock Cohen to #3.  

The 3rd place schedule should make the Bears better alone.  Health, a few additions, and an offense that works should bring some hype back.  Let it play out. If not, then 2021 we should have ammo to rebuild QB and more.

It was always clear in my mind that Pace and Nagy would be back, along with Mitch.   The fact they didn't criticize Mitch in a press conference is 100% the right thing to do.  Mitch showed a lot of good and a lot of bad but there is absolutely zero to gain by throwing him under the bus publicly.  Even if they want to bring in some competition.  

I'm surprised but pleased they cleaned house on the offensive side.  Pace went full in with Nagy's hires when he came on board (as he should have done IMO) but it didn't work out.  I believe Nagy was told you are young inexperienced OC and you need help.  That he needs to find an OC to balance against his traits.  The fact guys like Hiestand and Gilbride were sent packing tells me they plan to give the new OC more control over things.  That starts by getting his input on his top assistants.  I don't think Ragone is definitely staying either.  They probably felt positive enough about him to keep him around for now but he might have been told he needs to interview with the new OC to keep his job. 

The one asst coach I did like was WR coach Mike Furrey and I'm glad he's still here.  The RB coach London ...can stay or go but to be fair his group had nothing to work with in terms of blocking and even then Montgomery finished with 887yds but just a 3.7ypc.  Amazingly Montgomery had 399 yards after contact with a 2yd average before contact.  I don't know how that compares league wide but to me it seems like he was doing much of the work himself.   

  

[BearFan PHX]

Trubisky is an issue, but he isn't even the top two problems.

Nagy and the OL have been insurmountable. Sure Mitch can grow, but the OL has been atrocious. Just awful. Leno is a disgrace, and made it impossible for Trubisky to even operate the offense at whatever level he is at.

Nagy refused to change his play calls.

He lost a playoff game for the Chiefs because he got away from the run.
Last year he assured us that he'd get Jordan Howard going, but never did.
This year he gave up on the run too, and refused to do any straight power blocking at ALL.
Then one week, he spoke about I formation, and decided to show us idiot fans that it wouldnt work. Except it did. Well. So we promptly abandoned it and went back to the pulling and trapping game his OL was completely unable to execute.

Im telling you now. Next year is already a wash, and Nagy will get fired after. And THEN we will have to start again.

Wish we could fire him now, because all youre gonna do is spend another yeat to discover that Nagy is not the guy.

And why fire the OC? Nagy is the offensive genius, and play caller, and he admits he leaves the defense alone.

So what did Helfrich do that it was HIS fault and not Nagy's?

This is total garbage. Come on Virginia. Pull the plug on this crap.
 

[AZ54]

3 hours ago, BearFan NYC said:

Trubisky is an issue, but he isn't even the top two problems.

Nagy and the OL have been insurmountable. Sure Mitch can grow, but the OL has been atrocious. Just awful. Leno is a disgrace, and made it impossible for Trubisky to even operate the offense at whatever level he is at.

Nagy refused to change his play calls.

He lost a playoff game for the Chiefs because he got away from the run.
Last year he assured us that he'd get Jordan Howard going, but never did.
This year he gave up on the run too, and refused to do any straight power blocking at ALL.
Then one week, he spoke about I formation, and decided to show us idiot fans that it wouldnt work. Except it did. Well. So we promptly abandoned it and went back to the pulling and trapping game his OL was completely unable to execute.

Im telling you now. Next year is already a wash, and Nagy will get fired after. And THEN we will have to start again.

Wish we could fire him now, because all youre gonna do is spend another yeat to discover that Nagy is not the guy.

And why fire the OC? Nagy is the offensive genius, and play caller, and he admits he leaves the defense alone.

So what did Helfrich do that it was HIS fault and not Nagy's?

This is total garbage. Come on Virginia. Pull the plug on this crap.
 

I hear ya on Nagy.  I said it very early in the season with his play calling and just how poorly the offense was overall had a lot to do with him.   I still think he's better head coach than OC.   I still love his creative play calling at times and I actually want to keep a bit of the mad scientist stuff.  It's hard to know for sure but Nagy came here all confident in his play calling and was clear from day 1 this is his offense.  I'd say for that reasons he had a bunch of "yes men" in the game planning room.   

Nagy needs to have a different voice in the Offensive room and on the head set on game days.  Someone who has the balls to tell him what he needs to do to protect him from himself.   Someone who also knows how to get a good running game going.  Then Nagy has to be willing to merge what he's been doing with those concepts.  

Then Pace has to go get the Oline and TE to make that work.  Would we go back to a FB on the roster?  Do we keep Holtz in the existing H-back stuff and expand on it?  

[AZ54]

https://twitter.com/adamjahns/status/1212077072962785291?s=21

Jahns says Helfrich and Hiestand were responsible for the running game.  Over on Reddit folks are talking about who was responsible for the mid-season switch to some Power-I formations that were successful.  It just adds some intrigue but doesn't change the fact Nagy too often didn't even call running plays.  

[Connorbear]

13 hours ago, AZ54 said:

It was always clear in my mind that Pace and Nagy would be back, along with Mitch.   The fact they didn't criticize Mitch in a press conference is 100% the right thing to do.  Mitch showed a lot of good and a lot of bad but there is absolutely zero to gain by throwing him under the bus publicly.  Even if they want to bring in some competition.  

 

This 100%. You praise in public and criticize in private. 

Peace

[Connorbear]

9 hours ago, AZ54 said:

I hear ya on Nagy.  I said it very early in the season with his play calling and just how poorly the offense was overall had a lot to do with him.   I still think he's better head coach than OC.   I still love his creative play calling at times and I actually want to keep a bit of the mad scientist stuff.  It's hard to know for sure but Nagy came here all confident in his play calling and was clear from day 1 this is his offense.  I'd say for that reasons he had a bunch of "yes men" in the game planning room.   

Nagy needs to have a different voice in the Offensive room and on the head set on game days.  Someone who has the balls to tell him what he needs to do to protect him from himself.   Someone who also knows how to get a good running game going.  Then Nagy has to be willing to merge what he's been doing with those concepts.  

Then Pace has to go get the Oline and TE to make that work.  Would we go back to a FB on the roster?  Do we keep Holtz in the existing H-back stuff and expand on it?  

Hire Pat Shurmer as OC/assistant head coach. 

Peace

[Alaskan Grizzly]

10 hours ago, AZ54 said:

https://twitter.com/adamjahns/status/1212077072962785291?s=21

Jahns says Helfrich and Hiestand were responsible for the running game. ... It just adds some intrigue but doesn't change the fact Nagy too often didn't even call running plays.  

Look no further than game one against the Pack when Chicago called 45 pass plays to something like 15 runs to know who was doing what early on. 

[BearFan PHX]

I dont think Nagy has shown enough that you keep him, but bring in someone to reign him in. If he needs so much supervision (he DOES) then why not let the next OC call plays? Or better yet, what are you keeping about him? Club Dub? Bad 4th down decisions?

Im telling you next year is a wasted year because no one has the guts or institutional power to fire him. It should be Pace to do it. But he has decided to double down and finish tying his future to the rest.

Only Virginia now can save us.

Otherwise, we will be rebuilding again in 2021, and if that's Ok, why not start NOW.

[AZ54]

1 hour ago, Connorbear said:

Hire Pat Shurmer as OC/assistant head coach. 

Peace

I like this idea.  

[BearFan PHX]

3 hours ago, AZ54 said:

I like this idea.  

If Nagy can allow himself to be open, then sure.

But even if he is listening and all dialed in on Tuesday morning, is he able to feel that way in the early part of the 4th quarter, 2nd and 8, down 6 on the road? Will he really call straight power blocking off-tackle right with no one pulling? I truly and deeply have my doubts.

He has never shown the ability to foster a running game, here or in KC. Over and over it's the same thing.

Let's release him and he can finally be free to fulfill his dream and be the world's top Madden player.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

3 hours ago, BearFan NYC said:

If Nagy can allow himself to be open, then sure.

But even if he is listening and all dialed in on Tuesday morning, is he able to feel that way in the early part of the 4th quarter, 2nd and 8, down 6 on the road? Will he really call straight power blocking off-tackle right with no one pulling? I truly and deeply have my doubts.

He has never shown the ability to foster a running game, here or in KC. Over and over it's the same thing.

Let's release him and he can finally be free to fulfill his dream and be the world's top Madden player.

2020 season is it, do or die for Nagy. Not much we can do about it but hope he figures something out.  If he fails, hopefully he fails bad and the Bears get a high 1st rd pick that they can use to lure a coach and maybe a GM. No sense on trying to find a HC that will be stuck with Trubisky, little draft picks etc and knowing you don't get a shot at turning it around.

[Mongo3451]

Did anyone hear Dave Gettleman speak on Trubisky today on ESPN?  It was pretty damning.  He essentially said that the book on Trubisky is out, saying he can't throw deep to his left.  They game planned him knowing his deficiencies.  He said, at this point, a vet has to come in and compete and in no way he would have publicly endorsed Trubisky the way Pace did.  Nagy risks losing the team if Trubisky is handed the job.  This is the first active GM gong on record with this opinion.

[AZ54]

5 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

Did anyone hear Dave Gettleman speak on Trubisky today on ESPN?  It was pretty damning.  He essentially said that the book on Trubisky is out, saying he can't throw deep to his left.  They game planned him knowing his deficiencies.  He said, at this point, a vet has to come in and compete and in no way he would have publicly endorsed Trubisky the way Pace did.  Nagy risks losing the team if Trubisky is handed the job.  This is the first active GM gong on record with this opinion.

Is this the guy who hired Shurmer and now fired him just 2 year later?  He's also the guy who drafted Daniel Jones 6 overall?  This seems like a GM who is casting stones in other people's direction to distract from his own dumpster fire.  

Trubisky has a lot of deficiencies but this whole thing about passes deep left is not always true.   I'm more worried about his mental state in games as he isn't good in big games.  

https://twitter.com/kfishbain/status/1188839261874855937/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1188839261874855937&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.redditmedia.com%2Fmediaembed%2Fdoad2c%3Fresponsive%3Dtrue%26is_nightmode%3Dfalse