Mongo3451 Posted February 4, 2020 Report Share Posted February 4, 2020 I've been listening to Kyle all morning. He's going to be in for 2 more days. Interesting things he said: Bobby Massie is a stalwart right tackle when healthy, Daniels is a pro bowl talent at guard, Whitehair is the true center and vocal leader of the OL and that Leno is like a coach on the field. On Hiestand, he and Nagy never clicked and that Juan Castillo is a perfect fit for Nagy, because he has his trust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted February 5, 2020 Report Share Posted February 5, 2020 I value Kyle’s appraisal of the o-line; having ‘been there, done that’. If he thinks Castillo will click better with Nagy AND he assesses that a player like Leno can be used, then I’m good with it (until I’m not). But maybe Castillo’s viewpoint will be different and we’ll get a better idea of his measure once the FA and draft occur. I remember Long was a big reason for Massie coming to Chicago. He endorsed him big time when he (Massie) became a FA from Arizona. I’ve never been all that impressed with Massie but then, I haven’t ‘been there, done that’ like Kyle has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted February 5, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2020 In regards to Massie, he was speaking mainly of run game dominance. Kyle definitely took some veiled shots at Nagy in repeatedly stressing that they needed to establish power running if they were gong to help Trubisky. He also stated that Jay Cutler is one of the coolest people on earth and one tough SOB. He also stated that Cutler in his prime would have not fared better than Trubisky last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted February 5, 2020 Report Share Posted February 5, 2020 I dunno. I think maybe Long is just being loyal to his guys. If you tell me Leno is an excellent OT, then I know youre wrong. I dont care who you are or how much experience you have. If you tell me last years OL was good, then you are wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted February 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2020 He didn't say any of that, ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted February 6, 2020 Report Share Posted February 6, 2020 OK if Leno is a coach on the field, why does he (attempt to) block the wrong guy so often? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyfishingBear Posted February 6, 2020 Report Share Posted February 6, 2020 35 minutes ago, BearFan NYC said: OK if Leno is a coach on the field, why does he (attempt to) block the wrong guy so often? He's coaching the rest of the fellas on what NOT to do. Brilliant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted February 6, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2020 5 hours ago, BearFan NYC said: OK if Leno is a coach on the field, why does he (attempt to) block the wrong guy so often? I think that's why Hiestand is gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted February 7, 2020 Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 I dunno. I find it hard to believe that Hiestand, who was widely regarded as the best OL coach in college or pro football didnt understand that every defender needs a blocker, and that you cant double team the tackle and leave the end (or OLB) unblocked. I can imagine that Hiestand wanted a more power running game and Nagy likes the traps and pulling lineman. I can imagine that as the season went on an it became painfully obvious to everyone, that Hiestand might have spoken back to Nagy or challenged him. I can even imagine that Hiestand has certain blocking techniques (talking hands and back position, not Xs and Os) that werent popular. But every team down to pee wee league knows that if two OL are one one defender and the other is unblocked on the playside, that's just a mistake. And it's a mistake Leno made OVER AND OVER AND OVER. Leno is AWFUL. Anyone who says he isnt loses credibility in my eyes. (Im talking about Kyle Long or Nagy etc, not you!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted February 7, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 One thing Kyle said, is that Leno knows he has to work extra hard to be an NFL caliber tackle. IE: talent is marginal and he needs to make up for it with extra effort. Again, if Hiestand wasn't bought in, that makes it really tough for a guy on the bubble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted February 7, 2020 Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 I totally agree that Leno doesnt have dominant physical tools. And Id be open to the idea that a technique guru could help him with those techniques. But the guy doesnt even choose the right player to block most of the time. If you watch the youtube channel "Bears Barroom" and the "the tape never lies" videos, you can see just how incredibly awful he is. You can even mute the commenter, you can see it with your own eyes, over and over every week. And these are things PeeWee league players understand. For me, Leno should not be on the team. So When I hear Long is praising him, and then the admission that he isnt that good, it sounds like Kyle is trying to be good to his guys, and I respect that, but I wouldnt think that way if I was Pace. Longs a good and loyal guy, I like him, but I dont expect unbiased info from him about his buddies. And more to the point, Leno is awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted February 8, 2020 Report Share Posted February 8, 2020 6 hours ago, BearFan NYC said: I totally agree that Leno doesnt have dominant physical tools. And Id be open to the idea that a technique guru could help him with those techniques. But the guy doesnt even choose the right player to block most of the time. If you watch the youtube channel "Bears Barroom" and the "the tape never lies" videos, you can see just how incredibly awful he is. You can even mute the commenter, you can see it with your own eyes, over and over every week. And these are things PeeWee league players understand. For me, Leno should not be on the team. So When I hear Long is praising him, and then the admission that he isnt that good, it sounds like Kyle is trying to be good to his guys, and I respect that, but I wouldnt think that way if I was Pace. Longs a good and loyal guy, I like him, but I dont expect unbiased info from him about his buddies. And more to the point, Leno is awful. So what do you really think about Leno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted February 8, 2020 Report Share Posted February 8, 2020 Leno had a bad year. I think we bring in a draft pick to compete with him. If not the 43 or 50 pick , probably means he is 2020 starter. Unless they think Bars can play LT. I think there will be a new starter at RG , probably a rookie or Bars. With our cap space, there is going to have to be some cheap starters. RG will be one of those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted February 8, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2020 3 hours ago, Stinger226 said: Leno had a bad year. I think we bring in a draft pick to compete with him. If not the 43 or 50 pick , probably means he is 2020 starter. Unless they think Bars can play LT. I think there will be a new starter at RG , probably a rookie or Bars. With our cap space, there is going to have to be some cheap starters. RG will be one of those. Yup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted February 8, 2020 Report Share Posted February 8, 2020 I think we are going to cut Leno. If keeping him as the swing tackle backup saves a few buck to go towards the replacement OT so be it, but in no way do I think he will be a starter for us next year. He is easily the weakest link on the team, and personally bears a significant percentage of the blame for our season this year. It is rare that a single player could be responsible for so much of the failure. Especially a non QB. I urge anyone who disagrees to go to you tube and watch some of the weekly recaps on the BearsBarroom channel. The videos are called "the tape never lies" - if you watch those, you cant come away with anything but the idea that this guy is the worst lineman in all of football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 It's funny how much of a different assessment can be made on the same player, here Robert Schmitz breaks down Leno and says he is perfectly average. Then there are articles about how he sucked: https://www.si.com/nfl/bears/news/chicago-bears-offensive-line-needs-include-tackle. So what gives. How can so many people come up with different opinions on the same player. To me, it was clear that Leno was part of the problem last year. I will have to track down the totals, but I know he allowed a lot of hurries and hits, and had a ton of penalties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted February 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 On 2/8/2020 at 11:22 AM, BearFan NYC said: I think we are going to cut Leno. If keeping him as the swing tackle backup saves a few buck to go towards the replacement OT so be it, but in no way do I think he will be a starter for us next year. He is easily the weakest link on the team, and personally bears a significant percentage of the blame for our season this year. It is rare that a single player could be responsible for so much of the failure. Especially a non QB. I urge anyone who disagrees to go to you tube and watch some of the weekly recaps on the BearsBarroom channel. The videos are called "the tape never lies" - if you watch those, you cant come away with anything but the idea that this guy is the worst lineman in all of football. Completely disagree. Leno had a terrible year, no doubt. But, he has played better in the past and can do so again. He is simply a player that has to work harder than the rest to be effective. If he trains harder this off season, he can regain form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 11 hours ago, Mongo3451 said: Completely disagree. Leno had a terrible year, no doubt. But, he has played better in the past and can do so again. He is simply a player that has to work harder than the rest to be effective. If he trains harder this off season, he can regain form. This is where I’m at too. If Castillo can assess Leno being able to play then I’m good with it. It seems there was a lot of weird fall off from 2017-2018 that is hard to explain; especially along the oline. They were essentially the same group from one year to the next but you wouldn’t know it by how they played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 12 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said: This is where I’m at too. If Castillo can assess Leno being able to play then I’m good with it. It seems there was a lot of weird fall off from 2017-2018 that is hard to explain; especially along the oline. They were essentially the same group from one year to the next but you wouldn’t know it by how they played. For Leno, it's easy, he got paid, got married, and had a baby. Most non-elite players drop off after a pay day, a good amount never recover. Leno's penalties were also directly related to his conditioning. I think he knew he was not as fast or as strong, so he would jump and false start against a speedy Edge guy or hold the stronger one. His penalties in terms of % of team penalties was 4th worst in the NFL, that is insane. Tunsil and Bolles were two of the three worse than him and they were flat out terrible players. I don't like PFF, but O-Line seems like one of the easier positions to grade (in relative terms), and his PFF grade dropped from mid-70's to mid-50's from 18 to 19. Mid-50's is replacement level and below a backup: The Player Grading Scale: 100-90 Elite 89-85 Pro Bowler 84-70 Starter 69-60 Backup 59-0 Replaceable I am going to go thru the entire season over the next month and grade out the entire O-Line myself. I watched the first quarter of the Packers game and already saw a few bad plays from Leno. To me one of the biggest issues was he gave up on his blocks too quick, then didn't attempt to block anyone else or run with the play. It's easy to see where some would call him lazy from that type of display. Hopefully Castillo will get more out of him, but with a new sheriff in town, he will be riding the pine if he continues playing like that. Another weird twist during the season was with Leno's wife defending his play. I thought that was interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 Having all those penalties is a tell tale sign , he didn't have his shit together last year. If he the same as 2018 then it will work out but either a 2nd round pick has to push him or a vet on team because having a job given to him isn't working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted February 10, 2020 Report Share Posted February 10, 2020 in addition to his physical issues, being unable to sustain blocks etc, he was blocking the wrong guy all too often. That's not going to get better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted February 11, 2020 Report Share Posted February 11, 2020 23 hours ago, BearFan NYC said: in addition to his physical issues, being unable to sustain blocks etc, he was blocking the wrong guy all too often. That's not going to get better. and how do they grade that? He lets the first guy run free but then makes a nice block on the 2nd guy as the first guy pancakes Trubisky. He gets a good grade for his block. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 8 hours ago, adam said: and how do they grade that? He lets the first guy run free but then makes a nice block on the 2nd guy as the first guy pancakes Trubisky. He gets a good grade for his block. PFF is insane. I dont believe anything they say. I mean, Im sure they are right 50% of the time, but I dont know when theyre right and when theyre wrong. So I pay no attention to their stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 If you go by NFL standards he is simply a average LT. He was down last year. He ain't getting cut. The only scenario is if they go to him and do a Long deal ( cut in salary) and he doesn't agree and they cut him. He needs competition. I see a rookie coming in and taking over if he continues to have poor play. Since there is no clear cut backup, he won't be going anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted February 12, 2020 Report Share Posted February 12, 2020 13 hours ago, Stinger226 said: If you go by NFL standards he is simply a average LT. He was down last year. He ain't getting cut. The only scenario is if they go to him and do a Long deal ( cut in salary) and he doesn't agree and they cut him. He needs competition. I see a rookie coming in and taking over if he continues to have poor play. Since there is no clear cut backup, he won't be going anywhere. I'll bet you Leno is not a starter on the Bears OL on opening day. No need for $, we can just shake on it, and see who is right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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