Trade Cohen?

[AZ54]

Maybe I should setup a poll but I'm just curious if anyone else (besides me) would trade Cohen?   He's not a RB and he's good as a slot WR but doesn't really offer the deep threat we need.  He is one of the best PR in the league so that has value.  It's a deep WR draft so I'm not sure any teams would bite but then again he's a proven commodity which is a big deal as compared to any day 3 draftee.  Plus he's relatively cheap at $2mil for the year. 

That said if we do draft a player like Reagor or Aiyuk who can both do the PR duties when/where does Cohen earn snaps?  We're still hanging onto Patterson as the trick play guy and he's better at that than Cohen is.  We could free up his $2mil and use it to fill another need like RB where we need another player to compliment Montgomery.  Again, with this draft class I don't see a market for him, at least not until training camp rolls around and either injuries hit some team, or they realize they don't have the talent they thought they had. 

I think Cohen is here for this season and then we let him go in FA and possibly get a comp pick back for him.    

[adam]

Cohen has value, I really think he was not used properly yesterday. I wouldn't be opposed to trading him if you can get at least a 4th rounder in return. I am sure is going to cost more once he hits free agency and I doubt the team would pay him much more than what he is getting now. 

The question would be, can you replace him for the same value and get more output? Oddly enough, I thought Whyte could've been that guy. 

I could see a team like NO may be interested as a Sproles clone. Payton seemed to always like that type of player, and Pace obviously has connections there. 

[Mongo3451]

I would, only if we draft a guy that replaces what he does.   What round pick could we expect from him?  There are 27 receivers in this draft that have a 3rd round or higher rating.  Good talent is going to fall to us.  They also may lower his value.

[madlithuanian]

12 hours ago, AZ54 said:

Maybe I should setup a poll but I'm just curious if anyone else (besides me) would trade Cohen?   He's not a RB and he's good as a slot WR but doesn't really offer the deep threat we need.  He is one of the best PR in the league so that has value.  It's a deep WR draft so I'm not sure any teams would bite but then again he's a proven commodity which is a big deal as compared to any day 3 draftee.  Plus he's relatively cheap at $2mil for the year. 

That said if we do draft a player like Reagor or Aiyuk who can both do the PR duties when/where does Cohen earn snaps?  We're still hanging onto Patterson as the trick play guy and he's better at that than Cohen is.  We could free up his $2mil and use it to fill another need like RB where we need another player to compliment Montgomery.  Again, with this draft class I don't see a market for him, at least not until training camp rolls around and either injuries hit some team, or they realize they don't have the talent they thought they had. 

I think Cohen is here for this season and then we let him go in FA and possibly get a comp pick back for him.    

Please and thank you.

Ultimately, I think he's a Tavon Austin.  Kind of useful once in a while, but not really all that.  That said, I'm willing to see the contract out and see if he can amount to something more.  But, I think Id rather get picks...

[madlithuanian]

1 hour ago, Mongo3451 said:

I would, only if we draft a guy that replaces what he does.   What round pick could we expect from him?  There are 27 receivers in this draft that have a 3rd round or higher rating.  Good talent is going to fall to us.  They also may lower his value.

You mean get someone to fill the void of a guy running to the sidelines for a 1 foot gain? 

[Mongo3451]

4 minutes ago, madlithuanian said:

You mean get someone to fill the void of a guy running to the sidelines for a 1 foot gain? 

Yes, as long as you are on record stating he's useless after one mediocre season...?

[madlithuanian]

1 hour ago, Mongo3451 said:

Yes, as long as you are on record stating he's useless after one mediocre season...?

I do think he will end up being useless in Chicago.  I hope I'm wrong.  Something tells me a different organization might actually figure out how to use him correctly. and let him be more productive.  I don't trust Nagy to know what to do with players that don't perfectly fit "his scheme".

[AZ54]

2 hours ago, madlithuanian said:

I do think he will end up being useless in Chicago.  I hope I'm wrong.  Something tells me a different organization might actually figure out how to use him correctly. and let him be more productive.  I don't trust Nagy to know what to do with players that don't perfectly fit "his scheme".

I think useless is not the right term,  at least as I see it.    Redundant fits better depending on who we draft.

[madlithuanian]

51 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

I think useless is not the right term,  at least as I see it.    Redundant fits better depending on who we draft.

I stand by useless.  He doesn't appear to have the burst and "joystick-iness" to him that he flashed his first year.  The pro game is brutal, and maybe the beating he took, he lost that "something" he might have had.  He can certainly have some success if he's used better, has better blocking, and is smarter with the ball.  But, I just don't see it happening.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Null

[Alaskan Grizzly]

16 minutes ago, madlithuanian said:

I stand by useless.  He doesn't appear to have the burst and "joystick-iness" to him that he flashed his first year. 

I’m with Mad.  His ‘flash’ in the pan has certainly flamed out...or at least seems to be headed that way.

 Hes not on the same level as a Hester or Deion when it comes to returning.  They both had side to side elusiveness and speed where Cohen is just straight line speed, which diminishes quickly as you get older.  

[AZ54]

2 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

I’m with Mad.  His ‘flash’ in the pan has certainly flamed out...or at least seems to be headed that way.

 Hes not on the same level as a Hester or Deion when it comes to returning.  They both had side to side elusiveness and speed where Cohen is just straight line speed, which diminishes quickly as you get older.  

I think he needs to get back to his speed workouts and worry less about carrying the extra muscle.   What was he focused on during the draft?  He was never going to get draft because of his bench press.  

[ASHKUM BEAR]

I think Nagy used him too much and teams figured him out. He will not cut back and turn upfield once he starts running for the edge. When he thinks about it, he stops and ends up running backwards trying to find space. 

[BearFan PHX]

I would trade Cohen, Floyd and Patterson.

Both are good players that have something to offer.

The Bears have been such a bad team for so long, that we aren't used to trading good players. Teams like the Patriots do it all the time.

If you think about it, you can't get much in a trade if the player you're trading isn't worth something too, so you only get value in trades when you trade players that are good.

If moving those guys gave us what we needed to fix the offensive line and put another playmaker on defense for example, then it'd translate into more wins than keeping them would.

Hell, if they amounted to enough that we could trade one of our 2nd rounders plus what we got from those guys and get into the middle of the first round for a real QB, that'd be worth it in the long run too.

I do see value to our team for each of them. I see upside, and I see talent. But none of them is a core player you build your roster around, and until that is set, having fancy toys is a waste of money. Last year should have proved that.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

20 minutes ago, BearFan NYC said:

I would trade Cohen, Floyd and Patterson.

The Bears have been such a bad team for so long, that we aren't used to trading good players. Teams like the Patriots do it all the time.

Not sure I totally agree.  For one, when you get rid of both Patterson and Cohen you lose pretty much your starting return specialists.  And although Patterson is not Hester he still can give our team favorable field position whenever he’s out there returning.  He’s been doing it this long (3 time pro bowler at it) I think he’s still got one or two more years left in him.  And I still think Nagy is underutilizing him in the offense.  I’d like to see him develop more plays with him in the mix.

Second, trading players away because the Patriots do it isn’t a great practice.  For one, you said it yourself the Bears aren’t a perennially great team.  And they’re not in a true rebuild mode (yet) where I think trying to trade your good players for value makes more sense.

I’d agree that trading Floyd and Cohen would make sense right now.  Because neither is contributing enough in their respective positions that their losses would be as noticed.  Trading Patterson right now (IMHO) not so much.  

[Stinger226]

Offensively, I don't see us getting rid of cheap weapons when we have a cap crunch . You want  to bring in competition so be it. Last year he didn't play as well but that is more from poor offense, poor OL and bad MT.  Plus he's not going to bring back more than maybe a 6th if your lucky.  We are going to add speed not get rid of it. 

[BearFan PHX]

2 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Not sure I totally agree.  For one, when you get rid of both Patterson and Cohen you lose pretty much your starting return specialists.  And although Patterson is not Hester he still can give our team favorable field position whenever he’s out there returning.  He’s been doing it this long (3 time pro bowler at it) I think he’s still got one or two more years left in him.  And I still think Nagy is underutilizing him in the offense.  I’d like to see him develop more plays with him in the mix.

Second, trading players away because the Patriots do it isn’t a great practice.  For one, you said it yourself the Bears aren’t a perennially great team.  And they’re not in a true rebuild mode (yet) where I think trying to trade your good players for value makes more sense.

I’d agree that trading Floyd and Cohen would make sense right now.  Because neither is contributing enough in their respective positions that their losses would be as noticed.  Trading Patterson right now (IMHO) not so much.  

Yeah, I can see keeping Patterson too. Im just saying, you can get a returner for less than $5 Mil and year, and if you put that money into the OL, you'll probably see more wins as a result.

Also, Im not saying that trading good players is the key to success! That's silly!

Im saying that we shouldnt be shy about trading players who have some skills if we can get value for them. Im saying we havent been used to having excess talent to trade, so we feel pain when we think of trading anyone that can do anything good at all. But you only have so much cap space to go around, and if you shuffle value from Cohen to the OL or TE for for instance, it might well pay off better in terms of wins.

The question I think you have to ask at this point, trying to fix a roster and avoids going into full rebuilding mode, is whether any of these guys are CORE players you build a team around. And if they arent, and you still need people like that, then a trade is worth considering.

We need real help at (in no particular order) OL, TE, QB, OLB, DE, CB, S and ILB - holding on to value at RB2, KR/gadget and and OLB thats really more of a backup is hard to justify in the light of those other pressing needs. That's all Im saying.

[Stinger226]

I can honestly say if your trying to get rid of players, you don't get value back. If you get rid of these players that is putting us in a rebuild mode. First of all we lack high draft picks to replace and you always over pay to get players in free agency. 

[BearFan PHX]

6 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

I can honestly say if your trying to get rid of players, you don't get value back. If you get rid of these players that is putting us in a rebuild mode. First of all we lack high draft picks to replace and you always over pay to get players in free agency. 

well it depends of course.

Floyd is due $13Mil on the cap this year. No way we should pay that. If we think about restructuring him, then he is just another free agent really, and there are plenty to look at.

And if you can get something in return, even better. Therefore he is trade bait.

Cohen is similar in that he isnt a core player, but some team may want to trade something for him. The alternative is keeping him one more year and then no re-upping him. Better to get something.

The real question is Patterson. He fits what you're talking about. He is a good player and has value to us, and presumably another team as well. He costs $5 Mil on the cap, which is probably just about right, but if you add in some draft picks, then he's worth trading.

You mentioned the holes created by these guys leaving. Floyd and Cohen dont really leave big holes. They werent filling them anyway. And if you trade them, you get draft picks you can use to get players, or better the picks you have by packaging.

For Patterson, the question to me is whether you can take his value (and I admit he def has value to our team) and put it at another position that we need more.

Im good with keeping Patterson too. But if it was the difference between a great OLT and not, Id take the OT.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

18 minutes ago, BearFan NYC said:

But if it was the difference between a great OLT and not, Id take the OT.

But Leno will be starting next year so...  ?

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

But Leno will be starting next year so...  ?

oh crap did I lose the bet already?

[BearFan PHX]

hmmm, maybe I want to trade everyone so the odds are higher Ill win the bet hahahah

Its like this thought Ive had for a while now:

When I was a kid, I used to dream of being the Bears GM. In a way we all still do. We have things we hope will happen etc.

But I realized I'm not good enough to be the GM. I probably couldnt put together a Super Bowl winning team no matter how much I think I know what Im talking about as a fan.

Then I got a new dream. My new dream is to be GM of the Packers. Because i KNOW I could ruin a team. THAT I could do.

[Bill]

So let me see if I've got this right.  Seems like many on here want to get rid of half of our OL.  Both of our return men.  One of which has the 2nd best record in the history of the NFL if I'm correct.  Half of our linebackers.  Most of our TE's.  We've already lost one of our cornerbacks, and WR's.  Will most likely lose one safety.  Get rid of the owner, GM and head coach.  And we only have six draft picks and around 26 mil in cap space?  Oh and we're paying over 5 mil in dead cap.  Sounds like a really total rebuild from the ground up. Oh and get rid of the only GB we have signed for next year.  What am I missing

[BearFan PHX]

We want to get rid of big contract guys who arent playing at average levels. That's what it's about.

Floyd is definitely one of those. He's gonna get $13Mil for this year. No way he is worth that.

You may say we should rework his contract. Ok cool, but that's the same as cutting him and then resigning him in free agency, and out of every possibility is he the best option for the same money?

What if you got a 4th round draft pick if you promised to sign ANY free agent except Floyd? That's a trade scenario.

If it helps,. I'm all in on extending Robinson. He's great.

Im very excited to see Mack, Hicks, Goldman, Smith, Jackson and Fuller.

I really like Trevathan too, but he is getting older, and may be too expensive. Some like Kwit as a replacement, others like Pierre-Louis. If we can find a way to keep Trevathan, so much the better.

I think we were right to cut Amukamara. $9Mil was way too much to pay for him. You can find a free agent who will play better than he did for cheaper. Same with Gabriel, especially with good players like Miller, Wims and hopefully Ridley too.

So trying to paint me as a negative nancy is really not gonna work. There is lots of talent on this team to be excited about.

Hell, I havent even complained much about Trubisky, and I dont think Ive criticized Pace much either.

I think Nagy has real problems. I think Leno is atrocious. I think those are not radical opinions.

This isnt an emotional thing about either loving or hating the team, nor is it about generally having a negative outlook.

It's about how awful our OL was last year, and how it made everything else worse.

Amukamara and Gabriel are already gone. Floyd is serious trade bait.

So what's this grand charge about? That I think we wont resign Cohen after next year so better to get a pick now? That I recognize that Nagy didnt utilize Patterson much and I think his value is useful elsewhere? Or simply that I think Leno was awful? He WAS awful. He was terribly horribly awful.

I havent heard anyone here say that Leno is GOOD. The only argument I hear is that he has $7Mil of dead cap space so we have to keep him. If you beleive, as I do, that our entire season fell apart because of Leno, then it is foolish to trade a whole season away for $7Mil in cap room.

I heard the same arguments before we cut Parkey too. In his case it was $5Mil.

Maybe we are looking for a trade for Leno too.

Anyway, there is a lot of good on this roster, and I think we could have a playoff year, but we need a few things, and to my eye, OLT is a big one.

Lastly, I'll add this. I think Whitehair is decent, and I expect Daniels to look better next year too. I can live with Massie for one more year, so I'm really just looking at Leno and someone has to come in for Coward, because he didnt belong there either. It was Long's demise that did that, I dont think they ever planned on him being a starter.

Anyway, int he NFL you have to give to get, and in a good trade both sides get value. Trading doesnt bring us closer to an overhaul, we lose one player, but we gain another.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

3 hours ago, BearFan NYC said:

Then I got a new dream. My new dream is to be GM of the Packers. Because i KNOW I could ruin a team. THAT I could do.

You got my vote!