Trade Cohen?

[Stinger226]

NY , so when Fuller had that bad year and we didn't pick up his option, you would have cut him or traded him for a 7th round pick? 

The first year we got AR12 and  he didn't reach a 1000 season considering we were paying him like a #1, you wanted to trade him? 

The point I'm trying to make is every time someone doesn't have a good year , we can't go into a rebuilding situation.  With the 12-4 season giving us such hope and then 8-8 kicking us in the nutz, we have to try to take a step forward with the talent we have.  If we do everything you want to do, we would be going the wrong way. 

[BearFan PHX]

No I didnt say anything about getting rid of either of those two players.

But the idea that someone had a bad season isnt a reason to keep them either.

Which player(s) are you talking about, because I see each as a unique situation. I am not saying trade everyone, and I am not saying keep everyone.

I'm saying I (and half the sporting world) called the release of Prince and Gabriel.

It is equally expected that Floyd will not play next year under the current contract. None of this is controversial at all.

So what are we talking about? Cohen? He tries to outrun the whole team and ends up getting pushed out of bounds too much. And hes too small to run hard between the tackles.

And Patterson? I LIKE Patterson. Im not even saying to trade him, Im saying its something to THINK about, but it's right on the line. Hes worth something to us for sure, and we could probably get something for him.

Im really not understanding why you guys think Im saying to blow everything up, cuz Im just not.

But when you say we have to step forwward with the talent we have or blow everything up, I dont agree. There are other plays that are neither of those two things. ANd that's what Im discussing.

 

[BearFan PHX]

I'll add this, two years ago I said we should blow up the WR roster. Everyone here told me I was crazy. We were all crying about losing Kendall Wright and Cameron Meredith.

And I was right. Pace cleaned house and we got a lot of new WRs, and our WR group was great.

I think what's happening here is that we are Bears fans, and so we grow attached to players on the roster and get defensive thinking that cuts or trades are being disloyal or something.

But you have to do what's best for the roster, best for the Bears. ANd I think changes on the OL are coming, and I think Floyd will get restructured or traded. Amukumara and Gabriel are already cut.

So this is all about Cohen and Patterson? Neither is even a starter at their position.

And again, Im not even saying to cut or trade Patterson, Im just saying you have to listen to offers.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

I think Nagy used him too much and teams figured him out. He will not cut back and turn upfield once he starts running for the edge. When he thinks about it, he stops and ends up running backwards trying to find space. 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

I want to know who wanted to keep Kendall Wright.  Ill admit I liked Meredith but trusted the Bears on letting him go. Pace was establishing a track record on letting guys go like Forte, so I never doubted.  Prince and Gabriel were obvious releases. Floyd at 13.4 is out of the question, I see an extension or trade.  Shaheen will get a shot in tc.  Cohen is not leaving unless an offer is made. Along the oline, I dont see much change except at RG.  They can attempt to fix LT but that will be expensive and limit the team on signing their own or bringing in.  I expect a draft pick to compete. 

[BearFan PHX]

yeah Ashkum, so the big disagreement is on Cohen, and I just think he has trade value worth investigating.

I dont think any of us are really that far apart.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

8 minutes ago, BearFan NYC said:

yeah Ashkum, so the big disagreement is on Cohen, and I just think he has trade value worth investigating.

I dont think any of us are really that far 

No disagreements, I don't see him having value worth a trade.  His value to the Bears would/should be a 3rd RD.  Not getting that.  Let him play out his contract and if he walks, so be it. They should get a comp value 

[BearFan PHX]

yeah I think thats all I'm saying. If someone offers a 3rd for him, you jump on it.

I still think changes are coming on the OL (duh that i think that hahaha) March 18th and soon thereafter will be very interesting.

[AZ54]

22 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

No disagreements, I don't see him having value worth a trade.  His value to the Bears would/should be a 3rd RD.  Not getting that.  Let him play out his contract and if he walks, so be it. They should get a comp value 

I started this and I don't think Cohen has much trade value in this draft which is deep on WRs he might bring back a 5th Rd pick.  However, this was all predicated on first drafting someone who is better than he is.  Cohen is NOT a RB.  As a slot WR and jet sweep guy he has some value.  If he can defeat a DB on a double cut he's gone but if he doesn't he is too short to win a contested catch on the outside.  

We do have issues at WR...namely Anthony Miller who is injury prone and a poor or inconsistent route runner.   Behind him we have Wims who did not look good last year and Ridley.   I can see Ridley, Miller, and possibly Wims fighting it out for the 2nd/3rd WR role but these guys are really all 3rd/4th WR types on a roster.  Plus  we see snaps with Cohen in a limited role from the slot.   

We need an insurance policy for the #2 WR position preferably with some deep speed.   There aren't many FA options and we have the best WR draft in 15 years before us.   If we get someone like Jalen Reagor where does Cohen fit in?  

...and FWIW Patterson is elite on kick and punt coverage. 

[Bill]

20 hours ago, BearFan NYC said:

We want to get rid of big contract guys who arent playing at average levels. That's what it's about.

Floyd is definitely one of those. He's gonna get $13Mil for this year. No way he is worth that.

You may say we should rework his contract. Ok cool, but that's the same as cutting him and then resigning him in free agency, and out of every possibility is he the best option for the same money?

What if you got a 4th round draft pick if you promised to sign ANY free agent except Floyd? That's a trade scenario.

If it helps,. I'm all in on extending Robinson. He's great.

Im very excited to see Mack, Hicks, Goldman, Smith, Jackson and Fuller.

I really like Trevathan too, but he is getting older, and may be too expensive. Some like Kwit as a replacement, others like Pierre-Louis. If we can find a way to keep Trevathan, so much the better.

I think we were right to cut Amukamara. $9Mil was way too much to pay for him. You can find a free agent who will play better than he did for cheaper. Same with Gabriel, especially with good players like Miller, Wims and hopefully Ridley too.

So trying to paint me as a negative nancy is really not gonna work. There is lots of talent on this team to be excited about.

Hell, I havent even complained much about Trubisky, and I dont think Ive criticized Pace much either.

I think Nagy has real problems. I think Leno is atrocious. I think those are not radical opinions.

This isnt an emotional thing about either loving or hating the team, nor is it about generally having a negative outlook.

It's about how awful our OL was last year, and how it made everything else worse.

Amukamara and Gabriel are already gone. Floyd is serious trade bait.

So what's this grand charge about? That I think we wont resign Cohen after next year so better to get a pick now? That I recognize that Nagy didnt utilize Patterson much and I think his value is useful elsewhere? Or simply that I think Leno was awful? He WAS awful. He was terribly horribly awful.

I havent heard anyone here say that Leno is GOOD. The only argument I hear is that he has $7Mil of dead cap space so we have to keep him. If you beleive, as I do, that our entire season fell apart because of Leno, then it is foolish to trade a whole season away for $7Mil in cap room.

I heard the same arguments before we cut Parkey too. In his case it was $5Mil.

Maybe we are looking for a trade for Leno too.

Anyway, there is a lot of good on this roster, and I think we could have a playoff year, but we need a few things, and to my eye, OLT is a big one.

Lastly, I'll add this. I think Whitehair is decent, and I expect Daniels to look better next year too. I can live with Massie for one more year, so I'm really just looking at Leno and someone has to come in for Coward, because he didnt belong there either. It was Long's demise that did that, I dont think they ever planned on him being a starter.

Anyway, int he NFL you have to give to get, and in a good trade both sides get value. Trading doesnt bring us closer to an overhaul, we lose one player, but we gain another.

I was in no way calling you out.  I was going to start a new thread with just my somewhat tongue in cheek post.  All of use have at one point or another suggested getting rid of multiple players.  I think the only players who have not been included most of the times are Goldman, Hicks, Mack, and Jackson.  Hell I even at one point said if we're going to tear down most of the roaster maybe we should see what we can get for Mack.  

"I havent heard anyone here say that Leno is GOOD. The only argument I hear is that he has $7Mil of dead cap space so we have to keep him. If you beleive, as I do, that our entire season fell apart because of Leno, then it is foolish to trade a whole season away for $7Mil in cap room."

However I could not disagree more that their entire season fell apart because of Leno.  Yea he had moments as did almost every player and coach.  But the problems last season were much bigger that to pin it on one player
 

  

[BearFan PHX]

38 minutes ago, Bill said:

I was in no way calling you out.  I was going to start a new thread with just my somewhat tongue in cheek post.  All of use have at one point or another suggested getting rid of multiple players.  I think the only players who have not been included most of the times are Goldman, Hicks, Mack, and Jackson.  Hell I even at one point said if we're going to tear down most of the roaster maybe we should see what we can get for Mack.  

"I havent heard anyone here say that Leno is GOOD. The only argument I hear is that he has $7Mil of dead cap space so we have to keep him. If you beleive, as I do, that our entire season fell apart because of Leno, then it is foolish to trade a whole season away for $7Mil in cap room."

However I could not disagree more that their entire season fell apart because of Leno.  Yea he had moments as did almost every player and coach.  But the problems last season were much bigger that to pin it on one player
 

  

Fair enough - thanks for saying!

We can agree to disagree on Leno.

For what it's worth, in today's Sun Times, there is an article about draft choices, and the article says the first pick should go to Leno's replacement.

To be fair (and Stinger will like this) the plan they outline is starting the rookie at OG and letting Leno play at OLT until the rookie is ready. In that case, I'd have been right that Leno needs replacing, but Stinger would win the bet! Damn! LOL

But Im just saying, it isnt just me that thinks this.

[Bill]

All's good.  And yea I believe you can never have to many blue chip OL or DLmen.  And what happened to Pace's long ago statement that you should get a QB in the draft every year.  One in five?

[BearFan PHX]

4 hours ago, Bill said:

All's good.  And yea I believe you can never have to many blue chip OL or DLmen.  And what happened to Pace's long ago statement that you should get a QB in the draft every year.  One in five?

Im with you there.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

4 hours ago, BearFan NYC said:

Fair enough - thanks for saying!

We can agree to disagree on Leno.

For what it's worth, in today's Sun Times, there is an article about draft choices, and the article says the first pick should go to Leno's replacement.

To be fair (and Stinger will like this) the plan they outline is starting the rookie at OG and letting Leno play at OLT until the rookie is ready. In that case, I'd have been right that Leno needs replacing, but Stinger would win the bet! Damn! LOL

But Im just saying, it isnt just me that thinks this.

He may need replacing, but OLT is the hardest position besides QB. To just throw a 2nd round draft pick in and trust your QB will survive is not wise.  I was never in the Leno is good boat, just in the it is not an easy transition and our resources are limited.  I want the Bears to draft a RG and OT, because Massie and Leno need to be upgraded and they need a replacement for Long.  Does Barr fit in this equation is yet to be seen.  

[AZ54]

35 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

He may need replacing, but OLT is the hardest position besides QB. To just throw a 2nd round draft pick in and trust your QB will survive is not wise.  I was never in the Leno is good boat, just in the it is not an easy transition and our resources are limited.  I want the Bears to draft a RG and OT, because Massie and Leno need to be upgraded and they need a replacement for Long.  Does Barr fit in this equation is yet to be seen.  

So you want a LT?   How about trading back in Rd 2 and receiving a Rd 3 pick in exchange.  Then sending the 3rd Rd pick to Wash for Williams?  Use one of the 2nd Rd picks on IOL either OG or OC and you've overhauled the Oline in a big way.  I think we're going to give Bars a shot at RG though and use a Day 3 pick for depth at IOL.   With the two 2nd Rd picks we can still fill openings at WR, TE, OLB, or CB depending on who drops.  

https://www.walterfootball.com/nflhotpress/article/Redskins-Would-Want-Second-Day-Picks-for-Trent-Williams

 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

1 hour ago, AZ54 said:

So you want a LT?   How about trading back in Rd 2 and receiving a Rd 3 pick in exchange.  Then sending the 3rd Rd pick to Wash for Williams?  Use one of the 2nd Rd picks on IOL either OG or OC and you've overhauled the Oline in a big way.  I think we're going to give Bars a shot at RG though and use a Day 3 pick for depth at IOL.   With the two 2nd Rd picks we can still fill openings at WR, TE, OLB, or CB depending on who drops.  

https://www.walterfootball.com/nflhotpress/article/Redskins-Would-Want-Second-Day-Picks-for-Trent-Williams

 

I do want OLT from Auburn Prince Tego, he is raw and could possibly play OG year one.  He would be a round 2 pick.  Not sure RG, but LG to start.  They wont be adding salary along the line, so Williams only comes if they trade Leno and a 5th.  It burns me they never draft OTs.  

[Alaskan Grizzly]

3 hours ago, AZ54 said:

So you want a LT?   How about trading back in Rd 2 and receiving a Rd 3 pick in exchange.  Then sending the 3rd Rd pick to Wash for Williams?  Use one of the 2nd Rd picks on IOL either OG or OC and you've overhauled the Oline in a big way.  I think we're going to give Bars a shot at RG though and use a Day 3 pick for depth at IOL.   With the two 2nd Rd picks we can still fill openings at WR, TE, OLB, or CB depending on who drops.  

https://www.walterfootball.com/nflhotpress/article/Redskins-Would-Want-Second-Day-Picks-for-Trent-Williams

 

Absolutely worth it!!!

[Stinger226]

3 hours ago, AZ54 said:

So you want a LT?   How about trading back in Rd 2 and receiving a Rd 3 pick in exchange.  Then sending the 3rd Rd pick to Wash for Williams?  Use one of the 2nd Rd picks on IOL either OG or OC and you've overhauled the Oline in a big way.  I think we're going to give Bars a shot at RG though and use a Day 3 pick for depth at IOL.   With the two 2nd Rd picks we can still fill openings at WR, TE, OLB, or CB depending on who drops.  

https://www.walterfootball.com/nflhotpress/article/Redskins-Would-Want-Second-Day-Picks-for-Trent-Williams

 

I like the out of box thinking but Williams is going to have a big paycheck.  I would love to have this be Paces surprise move  but the money is going to be to great. He'll use his money and pay a group of FAs to fill every spot. I think he goes into the draft with not having to fill any position and just take BPA.  That's the way good teams draft. 

[Mongo3451]

8 hours ago, AZ54 said:

So you want a LT?   How about trading back in Rd 2 and receiving a Rd 3 pick in exchange.  Then sending the 3rd Rd pick to Wash for Williams?  Use one of the 2nd Rd picks on IOL either OG or OC and you've overhauled the Oline in a big way.  I think we're going to give Bars a shot at RG though and use a Day 3 pick for depth at IOL.   With the two 2nd Rd picks we can still fill openings at WR, TE, OLB, or CB depending on who drops.  

https://www.walterfootball.com/nflhotpress/article/Redskins-Would-Want-Second-Day-Picks-for-Trent-Williams

 

You know my answer is yes.  OL also should be highly drafted.  I don't like developing OL as much as drafting a guy that has the talent to succeed while honing his craft.  Higher floor and ceiling guys are needed.

[killakrzydav]

He has trade value? No chance anyone gives us a third out fourth for him imo

[BearFan PHX]

6 hours ago, killakrzydav said:

He has trade value? No chance anyone gives us a third out fourth for him imo

probably right - which is another way of saying that if someone DID, we should jump all over it.