Jimmy Graham a Bear

[AZ54]

9 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

These are players we could have had at Graham's salary. 

Ebron....Anthony Brown /CB......E. Ogbah...R. Wagner/ OT......Xavier Su'a-Fo/ OG.....Gurley/  RB......Adrian Phillips/S.....Jeff Heath/S......josh norman/CB......C. Lucas.....Klye Frackell/OLB....HaHa....john Miller/OG....Kevin Johnson/CB....KPL....Stefen Wisniewski/OG....Karl Joseph/S....

In a lot of cases at their prices you could pick up 2 for the money. 

Then this morning I was listening to Olin kruest on the score and he liked the signing., he liked it and he's right a lot.  

 

Not much on that list is worth getting excited about but neither is Graham.  The only one I'd consider would Joseph and I think he got overpaid equally as much as Graham... about 50% more than I expected.  Joseph has never even played a full season gets you 1 INT a year and gets between 40-50 solo tackles.    

Ebron's stats match up very well with Graham's.  Certainly we could have had similar performance on the field for less money and I expected us to go that direction.  The only thing I can think of is we really wanted Graham's leadership for the young TEs on the roster.   

Over at the Colts Chris Ballard worked for the Bears for years and was always held in high regard.  When he publicly said we have no interest in re-signing Ebron it was about as damning a statement you will see from a GM on a player.  Whatever happened there, and they had QB issues, it is clear Pace was aware and didn't want Ebron in our locker room.    

Regardless I'm still not happy about paying $8mil/yr for Graham.  If he can help the young guys Horsted and Holtz to improve then he just might make me feel like he's worth $6mil/yr.  

[ASHKUM BEAR]

25 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

Not much on that list is worth getting excited about but neither is Graham.  The only one I'd consider would Joseph and I think he got overpaid equally as much as Graham... about 50% more than I expected.  Joseph has never even played a full season gets you 1 INT a year and gets between 40-50 solo tackles.    

Ebron's stats match up very well with Graham's.  Certainly we could have had similar performance on the field for less money and I expected us to go that direction.  The only thing I can think of is we really wanted Graham's leadership for the young TEs on the roster.   

Over at the Colts Chris Ballard worked for the Bears for years and was always held in high regard.  When he publicly said we have no interest in re-signing Ebron it was about as damning a statement you will see from a GM on a player.  Whatever happened there, and they had QB issues, it is clear Pace was aware and didn't want Ebron in our locker room.    

Regardless I'm still not happy about paying $8mil/yr for Graham.  If he can help the young guys Horsted and Holtz to improve then he just might make me feel like he's worth 

Graham is 33, a little past the age of effectiveness. We hope he can get back to 50 rec, 550 yds and 8 TDs?  Those stats would put him in the middle of the pack.  If he can do that while also influencing Horsted, Shaheen, Holtz and most likely another pick, maybe we can get a solid contributor to step in his shoes.  

[bradjock]

On 3/19/2020 at 10:54 AM, AZ54 said:

Jimmy Graham blocking.  Love the second one where he puts the DE airborne into his own bench.  

B

 I feel one helluva a lot better after watching that.  Before this, I felt like we’d signed a guy who was only good for pass catching, but was now older and slower.  If he can be a complete player, the money will be well worth it. 

[bradjock]

On 3/16/2020 at 7:28 PM, Stinger226 said:

If they wanted to kick the tires on him for 4 or 5 mil on 1 yr , I would understand but with limited cap space, this is absolutely a desperate move.  The Packers were hurting for pass catchers last year and he had 38 receptions with Rodgers.  There is nothing here that's tells me, he will be better than that now. He wasn't even a red zone target for Aaron.  

Pace must have the beer virus. 

I would rather prefer Horsted with upside given his snaps.  This tells me Pace only has 1 year left at his job. Other than Paces ties with NO, who ever thought this was a good idea should be fired now. 

I agree this is a desperation move.  But incorporating the TE is a huge part of what we want to do in this offense.  One of the reasons the offense regressed in 2019 was due to the lack of a TE.  We no longer have to count on just Trey Burton.  We now have two TE weapons we can deploy.   It’s been rumored that we want to run more two TE sets next season. 

Everyone seems worried about how many TE’s we are carrying.  Realistically we will end up keeping 4.  Two for their playmaking ability (Burton & Graham . . . Maybe Horsted)  and two for their blocking/special teams ability (Perhaps Harris & Brauneker.). It’s tough to imagine that Shaheen makes the team.  I do find it unlikely that we would draft a TE. 

In terms of what happens to PACE, I’m not going to worry about that until I see how we perform next season.  

[bradjock]

1 hour ago, AZ54 said:

Not much on that list is worth getting excited about but neither is Graham.  The only one I'd consider would Joseph and I think he got overpaid equally as much as Graham... about 50% more than I expected.  Joseph has never even played a full season gets you 1 INT a year and gets between 40-50 solo tackles.    

Ebron's stats match up very well with Graham's.  Certainly we could have had similar performance on the field for less money and I expected us to go that direction.  The only thing I can think of is we really wanted Graham's leadership for the young TEs on the roster.   

Over at the Colts Chris Ballard worked for the Bears for years and was always held in high regard.  When he publicly said we have no interest in re-signing Ebron it was about as damning a statement you will see from a GM on a player.  Whatever happened there, and they had QB issues, it is clear Pace was aware and didn't want Ebron in our locker room.    

Regardless I'm still not happy about paying $8mil/yr for Graham.  If he can help the young guys Horsted and Holtz to improve then he just might make me feel like he's worth $6mil/yr.  

That’s a damn good point about Chris Ballard not wanting to re-sign Enron.  I’m sure there’s a reason why it was such a low deal.  Also, I suspect the only reason we are all so eager to get Ebron is because he was a former top 10 pick.  

Graham gives us another weapon and we are desperate for weapons.  Good signing.  

[DABEARSDABOMB]

On 3/20/2020 at 3:43 AM, Stinger226 said:

With all the TES we have, someone is going to step up or step out. Burton staying healthy or jesper stepping up. Remains to be seen. 

Fairly certain none of them will step-up.  

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Playing with a chip on his shoulder?  Maybe?  
 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001107729/article/jimmy-graham-i-still-have-ability-to-make-big-plays

...and a quick personal message

 

[AZ54]

18 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Playing with a chip on his shoulder?  Maybe?  
 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001107729/article/jimmy-graham-i-still-have-ability-to-make-big-plays

 

I'm listening to his press conference.  He said his knee feels the best it has felt in 4 years.  I can only say this, when I watch his highlights it still seems like he is dragging his left leg a bit.  His knee injury was to his right leg.  He's not nearly as agile as he used to be of course but in a straight line he did show more speed than he had in his last years in Seattle.  He's still good enough to win with his size, smarts, and hopefully with Nagy by taking advantage of his chances when the scheme gets him open to give us some big plays.  I don't see any jump-ball receptions but at his height you can still throw him open above a DB. 

If we were paying him half of what we are paying him I don't think anyone would have an issue at all with this signing.  At least I wouldn't.  He gives us a floor in production at the position that is much higher than anything we saw last year.  

Why is Ryan Pace hanging onto Shaheen?  We need cap space.  We usually are respectful of allowing players to test the market in early in FA once we decide we no longer want them around.  What's are we gaining by keeping him on the roster?   I feel like he's waiting to see if he can make some draft day deals.  He's not going to trade him outright so the only thing I can think of is that Shaheen packaged along with a Day 3 pick we might be able to move up higher in a given round.  Even that's questionable.   

[Stinger226]

I wonder what their waiting for to clean up the TE room? I suppose they keep them through the draft and start putting the roster together. If we can get 40 catches and 6 TDs out of Graham that would make it palpable. 

[adam]

 

 

 

11 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Playing with a chip on his shoulder?  Maybe?  
 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001107729/article/jimmy-graham-i-still-have-ability-to-make-big-plays

...and a quick personal message

 

I mean he signed with the Bears after playing with the Packers. So I am sure he has something to prove. I think he still has some years left in the tank. At this point almost anything is better than what we had last year. If we can get 50-600 with 5 TDs, that would be huge for this offense as we had literally nothing from that position last year.

Also, one other thing to note. Graham is one of the best seam TE's in the league, something we have not had since Olsen. That should open up some things for the WRs and RBs because a Safety will have to defend over the top against that. I can see Miller, Monty, and Cohen really benefitting from that threat.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

2 hours ago, adam said:

I mean he signed with the Bears after playing with the Packers. So I am sure he has something to prove. I think he still has some years left in the tank. At this point almost anything is better than what we had last year. If we can get 50-600 with 5 TDs, that would be huge for this offense as we had literally nothing from that position last year.

Also, one other thing to note. Graham is one of the best seam TE's in the league, something we have not had since Olsen. That should open up some things for the WRs and RBs because a Safety will have to defend over the top against that. I can see Miller, Monty, and Cohen really benefitting from that threat.

Good point on the seam route. That would divide the ball field into thirds (rather than halves) for the safeties.  As long as Graham is faster than the opposing LB then he’s still serviceable...with an NB, maybe not so. 
 

So Adam this is in your wheelhouse; been seeing a lot of flaming about the Bears getting Graham on his deal and not trying for Ebron (who ended up with Pitts).  Why is that?  Simply because of the contracts they signed? 
 

Also seeing a fair amount on the Foles versus Cam front too.  Of the two I actually think Pace did right there.  Would’ve liked someone a little more Franchisy QB but Foles will do.  Especially if they draft a new guy this year.  

[Stinger226]

I heard a podcast where a packers beat reporter with  insight on Graham . He said if you use him 50% of the time and more for a red zone threat and pick spots for him that he would be an asset. If he's on the field to much he wears down and it affects his production. He said his blocking was better than advertised but that's why you limits his reps because he wears him down. 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Saw an interview he did today (or yesterday) on ChicagoBears.com.  Mentioned he was drafted in NO while Pace was there.   Wasn’t that a similar path that Hicks followed?  Difference being Graham was better on the front end and Hicks is still getting better.  Or at least excelled since getting to Chicago.  Maybe this’ll be another reclamation project?  

[adam]

4 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Good point on the seam route. That would divide the ball field into thirds (rather than halves) for the safeties.  As long as Graham is faster than the opposing LB then he’s still serviceable...with an NB, maybe not so. 
 

So Adam this is in your wheelhouse; been seeing a lot of flaming about the Bears getting Graham on his deal and not trying for Ebron (who ended up with Pitts).  Why is that?  Simply because of the contracts they signed? 
 

Also seeing a fair amount on the Foles versus Cam front too.  Of the two I actually think Pace did right there.  Would’ve liked someone a little more Franchisy QB but Foles will do.  Especially if they draft a new guy this year.  

Here is how I see the differences from what I have read:

1. Graham - older, more accomplished, trending downward, but more consistent, signing doesn't impact comp picks, contract is essentially a one-year deal for $6M w/ an out and $3M dead money next year. Last year's numbers: 38-447, 3 TDs, and only 2 drops. Only 5 drops in last 2 seasons.

2. Ebron - younger, less accomplished, very inconsistent, drops a ton of passes, signing would impact comp picks (I believe was important consideration), contract is essentially a one-year deal for $3.5M w/ an out and $2.5M dead money next year.  Last year's numbers: 31-375. 3 TDs, 5 drops. 14 drops in last 2 seasons. Also, Ebron coming off ankle surgery, has not played since. So he was a comp pick question mark, and injury question mark, a consistency question mark with a history of drops, but younger. 

So I could see why Graham was enticing, though older, they needed to get a constant at that position. He is much more reliable and can stabilize the TE position for a year or two. Ebron had too many question marks and though slightly cheaper, probably didn't provide the same level of confidence that Graham did. 

[adam]

3 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Saw an interview he did today (or yesterday) on ChicagoBears.com.  Mentioned he was drafted in NO while Pace was there.   Wasn’t that a similar path that Hicks followed?  Difference being Graham was better on the front end and Hicks is still getting better.  Or at least excelled since getting to Chicago.  Maybe this’ll be another reclamation project?  

That too, Pace knows what Graham can do with the right QB and system. 

[BearFan PHX]

2 hours ago, adam said:

That too, Pace knows what Graham can do with the right QB and system. 

of what he COULD do.

Im not saying it's either/or I will be interested to see it on the field. We know Graham's football IQ, hands and competitiveness are all still excellent. I wonder how effective he can be, and for how many snaps.

But like I siad, Im not predciting gloom and doom, Im just curious. I give it 50/50 and the upside is huge.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

1 hour ago, BearFan NYC said:

of what he COULD do.

Im not saying it's either/or I will be interested to see it on the field. 

Between he and Burton we could have ONE really good TE.  ?

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Between he and Burton we could have ONE really good TE.  ?

yes, with a hedge against injury too. I do suspect Graham will have limited snaps to keep him fresh if possible.