Pace's last year

[AZ54]

4 hours ago, BearFan NYC said:

Ive wondered about this too. It was in my pre-Free Agency thread about who to cut or trade etc. A lot of the moves i mentioned have come to pass, even though people said they wouldnt

But I worry about this too. I hope that Mike McCaskey told him not to do anything like that. I even included a quote where McCaskey had signed off on the various trades that Pace made, so one assumes that to trade future picks he would need a green light.

But I surely dont know for sure. Its a real question, especially with their backs against the wall as you say.

Stop calling me surely.  

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, AZ54 said:

Stop calling me surely.  

bwahahahaha

[Alaskan Grizzly]

1 hour ago, AZ54 said:

At some point along the line everybody coaching in the NFL was fired from a previous job....see Andy Reid.  That does not mean they didn't have success in their previous roles.  We have two key coaches on offense who have proven they can put together a good running game and they've done so across multiple seasons.   

With regards to Lazor I thought I'd take a look at why he was fired and I'll admit I didn't know that he'd been let go from not one but two jobs in the last 5 years.   From his firing as Miami OC (2015): http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000591391/article/dolphins-fire-offensive-coordinator-bill-lazor

"Lazor was, for at least a time, exactly what Tannehill needed, but was also too reliant on the franchise quarterback." And this from ESPN journalist Jeff Darlington's tweet in that same article:  "Biggest point resonating from Dolphins' locker room after Lazor firing: Refusal to establish running game among biggest reasons for ouster."

And this:  https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/14258236/miami-dolphins-fire-offensive-coordinator-bill-lazor-promote-zac-taylor

"Lazor's departure isn't a surprise, as Miami's offense failed to produce enough points or balance to be successful. The Dolphins were held scoreless Sunday until the 2:30 mark of the third quarter and had just 12 total rushing yards in the 38-20 loss. Miami's pass-to-run ratio was an astounding 58-to-9 against the Jets..."  (where have we seen this before?)

And the question of whether a change of scenery would make things better. This about his firing in Cincinnati last year:   https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2019/01/11/cincinnati-bengals-fire-bill-lazor-mike-brown/

"Lazor’s offense was unimpressive in 2018, only showing signs of life while Tyler Eifert was on the field."

 

I don't really have an issue with Castillo. I have a feeling he may be an improvement as difficult as that is to believe.  But then again, he's just the oline coach.  I'm still not sold on DeFlip either... 

[AZ54]

5 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

With regards to Lazor I thought I'd take a look at why he was fired and I'll admit I didn't know that he'd been let go from not one but two jobs in the last 5 years.   From his firing as Miami OC (2015): http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000591391/article/dolphins-fire-offensive-coordinator-bill-lazor

"Lazor was, for at least a time, exactly what Tannehill needed, but was also too reliant on the franchise quarterback." And this from ESPN journalist Jeff Darlington's tweet in that same article:  "Biggest point resonating from Dolphins' locker room after Lazor firing: Refusal to establish running game among biggest reasons for ouster."

And this:  https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/14258236/miami-dolphins-fire-offensive-coordinator-bill-lazor-promote-zac-taylor

"Lazor's departure isn't a surprise, as Miami's offense failed to produce enough points or balance to be successful. The Dolphins were held scoreless Sunday until the 2:30 mark of the third quarter and had just 12 total rushing yards in the 38-20 loss. Miami's pass-to-run ratio was an astounding 58-to-9 against the Jets..."  (where have we seen this before?)

And the question of whether a change of scenery would make things better. This about his firing in Cincinnati last year:   https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2019/01/11/cincinnati-bengals-fire-bill-lazor-mike-brown/

"Lazor’s offense was unimpressive in 2018, only showing signs of life while Tyler Eifert was on the field."

 

I don't really have an issue with Castillo. I have a feeling he may be an improvement as difficult as that is to believe.  But then again, he's just the oline coach.  I'm still not sold on DeFlip either... 

It's all true but you can't always isolate on one reason for things to go poorly in the NFL.  It's just too complex or we wouldn't have teams spending all this money on large coaching staffs.  Andy Reid was fired for the same reason...didn't run the ball enough.  Now he's headed to the Hall of Fame.  People learn and evolve and that's what you hope for when you hire someone with experience.  All I meant with Lazor is that he's had years of good success running the football.  Some without.  We'll see what he draws up for the Bears and if Nagy can call those plays.  

[Bill]

15 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

It's all true but you can't always isolate on one reason for things to go poorly in the NFL.  It's just too complex or we wouldn't have teams spending all this money on large coaching staffs.  Andy Reid was fired for the same reason...didn't run the ball enough.  Now he's headed to the Hall of Fame.  People learn and evolve and that's what you hope for when you hire someone with experience.  All I meant with Lazor is that he's had years of good success running the football.  Some without.  We'll see what he draws up for the Bears and if Nagy can call those plays.  

Good points.  And I would bet almost every coach in the NFL has been fired from multiple jobs and positions over the years.  Many times I've read coaches say that they know they will at some point be fired.  Very few coaches seem to just retire.  Hell, even Tom Landry finally got fired.  And how many times has Belicheck been fired, not just as head coach but while an assistant?

[DABEARSDABOMB]

On 3/18/2020 at 12:52 PM, adam said:

This is it. Foles and Graham? That's the answer. We get an upgrade with Quinn over Floyd, a slight downgrade at rotational ILB, and probably CB and S. Our TE room is still weak and we have no RG and our OT's suck. Adding Foles did nothing to improve QB unless you consider him an upgrade over Daniel.

I feel like this is it for Pace. He failed on every first-round pick outside of Smith and the jury is still out on him after that weird situation last year. I can see Smith being one of those players that retires young. White, Floyd, Trubisky, and Shaheen. Epic early draft failures. Then he gives up the remaining capital for Mack, which didn't win us anything. Now we are going to be stuck with an aging core with huge cap hits during a rebuild. 

If these were all-in moves, Pace is playing checkers while the rest of the NFL was playing chess. 

I didn't like the Graham signing and don't mind Foles (as competition). I would have preferred Mariotta, but at least Bears aren't totally dependent on Mitch. If he's bad, they can pivot to a QB who is at least solid and can show us whether we have something or not.  Has to help Nagy too...knowing if he needs to, he can pivot to someone who can (hopefully) show everyone that he's a legit coach and this team can do something with the right QB.  

Defense should be very good and the Quinn move was risky but should really help Mack.  Will be interesting to see what they can do at safety and on the oline.  In an ideal world, I'd have rather applied the Foles money to Girley (short-term) and invested in some oline help.  Than get a different vet QB (maybe a RG III).  

[DABEARSDABOMB]

On 3/18/2020 at 10:22 PM, Stinger226 said:

I think there is still a strong possibility we trade both picks back and pick up 2 extra picks in the top 100. OL, WR, SS and TE. Does everybody think we could get 4 for Cohen? I don't think so.  People who want a scat back could draft one in the 4th.

The way Pace trades picks...we'll probably trade up our entire draft for 1 pick.   Nothing pisses me off more about Pace than his inability to build up draft capital.  Dude consistently mortgages the future and I just don't like it. I do like the fact that he has balls, that I'll give him, but he could benefit from building a surplus and understanding when and where it makes sense to be aggressive (in buying) but also when it makes sense to sell (i.e., we could have sold Floyd and gotten something for him at the deadline).  And for everyone that calls Floyd a bust...dude is a very good LB, he just doesn't get the sacks everyone expected.  He'll start for a long time in this league.  

[Stinger226]

At 13 million a year that's a salary you pay a pass rusher but still a good player.  He got 10 mil 

[Stinger226]

2 hours ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

I didn't like the Graham signing and don't mind Foles (as competition). I would have preferred Mariotta, but at least Bears aren't totally dependent on Mitch. If he's bad, they can pivot to a QB who is at least solid and can show us whether we have something or not.  Has to help Nagy too...knowing if he needs to, he can pivot to someone who can (hopefully) show everyone that he's a legit coach and this team can do something with the right QB.  

Defense should be very good and the Quinn move was risky but should really help Mack.  Will be interesting to see what they can do at safety and on the oline.  In an ideal world, I'd have rather applied the Foles money to Girley (short-term) and invested in some oline help.  Than get a different vet QB (maybe a RG III).  

You mean Gurley? He had injuries last year and there not going away in the future.  Not worth anything more than a prove it deal.  Lots of choices at safety, we can get one on the cheap. 

[Bertva]

I thought the Bears receiving group was below average and they really needed to upgrade to give any QB a chance.  They have not upgraded that unit yet, and I am not sold on Montgomery seem to dance to much in the hole for me get the through the hole and make you move. Now some of that cold have been poor blocking by the O-line. Speaking of O-line what's going to be done with that unit?

 

Hello everyone!

[Stinger226]

Free agency just started they have plenty of time left. Plus one of their first picks will be OL. 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

2 hours ago, Bertva said:

Hello everyone!

Welcome to the board!  
 

You’ll find most here will agree with you on the o-line; need an improvement.  Not as many will agree about Monty.  I’m more like you; still need to see more from him.  This is only his second year so provided the o-line improves so too should David . 

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Welcome to the board!  
 

You’ll find most here will agree with you on the o-line; need an improvement.  Not as many will agree about Monty.  I’m more like you; still need to see more from him.  This is only his second year so provided the o-line improves so too should David . 

I'm all in on Monty, but I need to see more actual production too!

[AZ54]

4 hours ago, Bertva said:

I thought the Bears receiving group was below average and they really needed to upgrade to give any QB a chance.  They have not upgraded that unit yet, and I am not sold on Montgomery seem to dance to much in the hole for me get the through the hole and make you move. Now some of that cold have been poor blocking by the O-line. Speaking of O-line what's going to be done with that unit?

 

Hello everyone!

Welcome.  Since we have been quiet on the OG front early in FA it appears Bars is going to get a chance to earn a starting spot at RG.  I'm sure he'll have some competition either in the form of a second tier FA (i.e. RG from 49ers) if they aren't too confident in Bars.  If they are more confident in Bars they might wait for the 3rd wave of FA and sign a vet on a cheap 1yr deal.  We'll likely add at least one draft pick to the mix as well with an OT in Rd2 or 3 (trade back) being the most popular choice here.  Leno must have competition this year, with the only disagreement coming from those who would have cut him in week 10 last year.    

[Stinger226]

Bars  probably has the same value as some of the 2nd tier OGs but would like grab Mike Person.  They picked up  Dino Boyd and Corey Levin late last year and put on the practice squad.  I wonder if they have anything there as a backup.  We will definitely draft a high Oline.  My best scenario is draft a Ezra Cleveland/OT and play him at RG but I think Bars will be there in the first game. 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

On 3/20/2020 at 7:12 PM, Bertva said:

I thought the Bears receiving group was below average and they really needed to upgrade to give any QB a chance.  They have not upgraded that unit yet, and I am not sold on Montgomery seem to dance to much in the hole for me get the through the hole and make you move. Now some of that cold have been poor blocking by the O-line. Speaking of O-line what's going to be done with that unit?

 

Hello everyone!

Welcome aboard and I agree with you entirely. Good news is this WR draft is one of the deepest in years so the Bears should be able to get 1 or 2 pretty darn good receiving talents.  

[Stinger226]

On 3/21/2020 at 9:12 AM, Bertva said:

I thought the Bears receiving group was below average and they really needed to upgrade to give any QB a chance.  They have not upgraded that unit yet, and I am not sold on Montgomery seem to dance to much in the hole for me get the through the hole and make you move. Now some of that cold have been poor blocking by the O-line. Speaking of O-line what's going to be done with that unit?

 

Hello everyone!

We are probably ranked in the middle for ranking for our  WR core . The poor is a combination play calling, bad QB play and poor concentration by a couple of players.  If we add a speed WR probably a 10 to 15 ranked squad.  If the line plays better you see a great leap forward bt Mongomery. He was learning the system and poor OL play put him in a bad light. Also poor play calling had him meeting the D in his hole instead of a few yards downfield.  They will bring a guy in and draft OL whether that is enough remains to be seen. they have to preform at 2018 line play. 

[adam]

7 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

We are probably ranked in the middle for ranking for our  WR core . The poor is a combination play calling, bad QB play and poor concentration by a couple of players.  If we add a speed WR probably a 10 to 15 ranked squad.  If the line plays better you see a great leap forward bt Mongomery. He was learning the system and poor OL play put him in a bad light. Also poor play calling had him meeting the D in his hole instead of a few yards downfield.  They will bring a guy in and draft OL whether that is enough remains to be seen. they have to preform at 2018 line play. 

The play calling doesn't get enough of the blame, but it seems that Nagy tailored it to what Mitch could handle. There were a lot of times you could see the WRs were frustrated. There were a lot of missed opportunities last year.

Monty is fine, but we definitely can use another solid RB to compliment him better. Cohen is too gimmicky for me and unless he improves, I could see him gone after 2020. 

[BearFan PHX]

2 hours ago, adam said:

The play calling doesn't get enough of the blame, but it seems that Nagy tailored it to what Mitch could handle. There were a lot of times you could see the WRs were frustrated. There were a lot of missed opportunities last year.

Monty is fine, but we definitely can use another solid RB to compliment him better. Cohen is too gimmicky for me and unless he improves, I could see him gone after 2020. 

for sure. and there is some chance Cohen is trade bait as we speak.

[Stinger226]

I'm not sure why you keep saying Cohen is trade bait.  The shitty offense didn't give much help to show his stuff.   It seems like most his plays were side side instead of down field where he is a mismatch.  They're trying to add more weapons not subtract them.  A good back up RB will allow Cohen to  just be the gimmick that that he is supposed to be. 

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

I'm not sure why you keep saying Cohen is trade bait.  The shitty offense didn't give much help to show his stuff.   It seems like most his plays were side side instead of down field where he is a mismatch.  They're trying to add more weapons not subtract them.  A good back up RB will allow Cohen to  just be the gimmick that that he is supposed to be. 

Trade bait doesnt mean the player is bad. If they are bad no one will trade for them.

Trade bait is a player who hasnt been productive in the system, and in this case would liberate cap space if traded or cut.

[adam]

I believe the following players could be traded in the offseason:

1. Trubisky
2. Burton
3. Leno
4. Massie
5. Cohen
6. Shaheen
7. Braunecker

Crazy to think they all are on the offensive side of the ball. We really need to draft there more often. 

[Stinger226]

6 hours ago, BearFan NYC said:

Trade bait doesnt mean the player is bad. If they are bad no one will trade for them.

Trade bait is a player who hasnt been productive in the system, and in this case would liberate cap space if traded or cut.

6 hours ago, BearFan NYC said:

Trade bait doesnt mean the player is bad. If they are bad no one will trade for them.

Trade bait is a player who hasnt been productive in the system, and in this case would liberate cap space if traded or cut.

He didn't have a good year but after 2 good years and a poor offense last year that contributed to his poor performance.  He ain't going anywhere. 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

1 hour ago, adam said:

I believe the following players could be traded in the offseason:

1. Trubisky
2. Burton
3. Leno
4. Massie
5. Cohen
6. Shaheen
7. Braunecker

Crazy to think they all are on the offensive side of the ball. We really need to draft there more often. 

4 of that 7 were drafted by the Bears.  One (Brauneker) was signed by the Bears as an UDFA and Massie and Burton came by way of trade.   
 

All but one of them (Brauneker) were projected starters last year....   

Agreed they could stand for better players on offense; but should Pace be the one doing it?

[DABEARSDABOMB]

3 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

He didn't have a good year but after 2 good years and a poor offense last year that contributed to his poor performance.  He ain't going anywhere. 

The problem is they have to deal with his contract a year from now.  I Think they need to understand whether they intend to spend money on him or not. If they don't, than I think it might be better to move on from him a year early (vs. late). Learn from the Floyd situation.