Good Defensive Breakdown

[AZ54]

I like Robert Schmitz' work.   Listen to the end when he talks about how important having the right safety to pair with Jackson is.  He said rule of 3, and that's true but we also have guys like RRH and Nichols who are capable of some good pass rushes at times as well, just enough to potentially cause havoc.  

 

[Stinger226]

I watched that , he makes a lot of sense.  The nickel back and SS both need to be good.  Skine isn't big but he's physical.  He played well last year. 

[FlyfishingBear]

A question for those more learned in defense schemes.  If the Bears do what he suggests and play more nickel, who comes off the field?  Normally, you're taking out a linebacker. In this case that would be one of the inside backers, Trevathan and Smith.  Which would leave you with only one inside. Is that Trevathan or Smith?  I would assume with Smith's speed that's who you'd keep on, but Trevathan has a ton of experience and leadership. What's it look like? 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

9 minutes ago, FlyfishingBear said:

A question for those more learned in defense schemes.  If the Bears do what he suggests and play more nickel, who comes off the field?  Normally, you're taking out a linebacker. In this case that would be one of the inside backers, Trevathan and Smith.  Which would leave you with only one inside. Is that Trevathan or Smith?  I would assume with Smith's speed that's who you'd keep on, but Trevathan has a ton of experience and leadership. What's it look like? 

I think they move to a more traditional 4-3 in those situations.  Mack/RRH DE, Goldman/Hicks DT.  Skrine NB, Trevathan ILB, Smith OLB. Jackson/HHCD S Prince/Fuller CB.

[FlyfishingBear]

7 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

I think they move to a more traditional 4-3 in those situations.  Mack/RRH DE, Goldman/Hicks DT.  Skrine NB, Trevathan ILB, Smith OLB. Jackson/HHCD S Prince/Fuller CB.

Ok, got it, that makes sense.  So really what they are doing is taking out one if the down lineman and playing Mack and Quinn as "defensive ends".

[ASHKUM BEAR]

Right on. Quinn prefers to play in a 4-3 too, at RDE. Mack usually prefers the Left side, so we know part of this will work.  It will be getting Quinn more comfortable in the 3-4 now. 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

1 hour ago, FlyfishingBear said:

Ok, got it, that makes sense.  So really what they are doing is taking out one if the down lineman and playing Mack and Quinn as "defensive ends".

The answer used to be pull one of the interior LBs.  They could do as you suggest and keep one interior LB too.  GB did that the last few years apparently with Pettine.  Former Packer MLB (now Giants) Blake Martinez was actually talking about how he was told to play behind certain players through the season, as sort of a back up role.  He was supposed to let star players, mostly across the front line do their thing then be there as part of the ‘clean up crew’.  He didn’t seem all that pleased about it.  Said he had no gap responsibility.  With your staring ILBs Trevathan and Smith I could see them trying that more.  Especially with Trevathan being older and coming back from an injury.   Smith would be more relied on in pass coverage sideline to sideline (zone if you will) which we know he’s capable of.  
 

The thing with Pagano is though he’s more a pressure defense guy. He like to blitz more than Fangio does or did.  He also likes his DBs to pay more man to man or aggressive press coverage.  Somewhere I read that since he was last a DC (in Baltimore 2011) Nickel and Dime coverages have become more prevelant than they were so it’s probably still a little foreign to him.  We did see several plays with Skrine in the nickel last year but in December CBS Sports reported 2019 ‘was the lowest statistical year for Skrine since his rookie season.’  
 

My guess going forward, Pagano will have a blend of 2 MLBs and occasional  Nickel (minus one ILB) but favor more of the 2 ILB set up. If Pagano stays true to form he’ll rely more on his pressure defense with the front seven attacking the line and not allowing as many deep passes.  Meaning he’ll be using more a hybrid four DL man front.  

[FlyfishingBear]

I'm pretty excited to see how it works.  I think this defense is great already, if they get the right safety (maybe Bush is it, I don't know) they could be insanely good.  Hoping for a healthy year, could be special.  

Watching that video got me really stoked for the season.  I need some football! 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Not for nothing but I’d also like to see them add another stud player like Hicks in the middle.  We saw how much the defense lagged with him out so maybe there is a comparable player in the draft they could get; in the later rounds.  I think Goldman could be that guy or maybe even Nicols or RRH but so far we haven’t seen in. Nothing consistent anyhow. 

[AZ54]

8 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Not for nothing but I’d also like to see them add another stud player like Hicks in the middle.  We saw how much the defense lagged with him out so maybe there is a comparable player in the draft they could get; in the later rounds.  I think Goldman could be that guy or maybe even Nicols or RRH but so far we haven’t seen in. Nothing consistent anyhow. 

RRH, Nichols, and even Goldman can all provide some pass rush in limited snaps.  The issues we had last year was with the injuries, Nichols included, we had no depth and backups like RRH aren't build to handle the heavy snap counts like Hicks.  Their effectiveness that we saw early in the season disappeared with the increased snaps.  If we can get our Dline rotation going again we'll see lots of contributions from them again especially with Quinn taking a lot of focus from the LT it should open up opportunities for more effective stunts or even blitzes in the B gap (if I got that right) from NB Skrine or one of the ILBs.  

[Stinger226]

14 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

The answer used to be pull one of the interior LBs.  They could do as you suggest and keep one interior LB too.  GB did that the last few years apparently with Pettine.  Former Packer MLB (now Giants) Blake Martinez was actually talking about how he was told to play behind certain players through the season, as sort of a back up role.  He was supposed to let star players, mostly across the front line do their thing then be there as part of the ‘clean up crew’.  He didn’t seem all that pleased about it.  Said he had no gap responsibility.  With your staring ILBs Trevathan and Smith I could see them trying that more.  Especially with Trevathan being older and coming back from an injury.   Smith would be more relied on in pass coverage sideline to sideline (zone if you will) which we know he’s capable of.  
 

The thing with Pagano is though he’s more a pressure defense guy. He like to blitz more than Fangio does or did.  He also likes his DBs to pay more man to man or aggressive press coverage.  Somewhere I read that since he was last a DC (in Baltimore 2011) Nickel and Dime coverages have become more prevelant than they were so it’s probably still a little foreign to him.  We did see several plays with Skrine in the nickel last year but in December CBS Sports reported 2019 ‘was the lowest statistical year for Skrine since his rookie season.’  
 

My guess going forward, Pagano will have a blend of 2 MLBs and occasional  Nickel (minus one ILB) but favor more of the 2 ILB set up. If Pagano stays true to form he’ll rely more on his pressure defense with the front seven attacking the line and not allowing as many deep passes.  Meaning he’ll be using more a hybrid four DL man front.  

A lot of times they pull Goldman in rush situations and put in Skine . They change up a lot, they don't want to wear out their studs.  All the snaps that Hicks has gotten over the last 2 yrs contributed to him getting hurt I think. He needs to be about 70% and not the 85% they have been playing him. 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

32 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

A lot of times they pull Goldman in rush situations and put in Skine . They change up a lot, they don't want to wear out their studs.  All the snaps that Hicks has gotten over the last 2 yrs contributed to him getting hurt I think. He needs to be about 70% and not the 85% they have been playing him. 

Yeah.  Hicks’ injury last year was his elbow getting dislocated (so was Trevathan for that matter).  But someone mentioned a while back that Hicks always looks like he’s about to blow out his knee when he plays.  I agree.  We probably have about 1 maybe two years left of him being able to significantly contribute.  Need to find the ‘next man up’.  

[Stinger226]

Hard to know.  People like Peppers and dare I say clay Matthews at 34. Keep playing well in a lesser role. Hicks has had few injuries in his career, maybe 3  - to 4 yrs contributing.