State of the Bears

[Stinger226]

I think we're in pretty good shape considering our financial situation and a limited draft. 

We added speed = 3 WRs , Kmet, Graham and Harris that makes the TE room better. A new QB, Patterson is going to be RB2 with Cohen the specialty back. One of the UDFAs may make the roster.  The oline is still a question but they have new faces and holdovers that may take a step forward.  

Defense has depth at CB, S, OLB plus the front already did. Johnson, Quinn and Gibson may actually be better than who they replaced last yr. 

There were better options than players we picked up but with the money we had, Pace has did a good job.  The only screw up was paying Graham to much. 

I think they got the best option at QB. In a bizzaro year, bringing in a QB that knows the system will be huge. 

Winston was never going to take the contract the first week of free agency that he took now. 

Dalton wasn't released yet and probably have more than Foles did with questions of is he better. Did not know the system.  

No one is touching Newton with his injury history.  

If Pace waited until now to make a Qb decision he would have been run out of town on a rail.  He made the right decision. 

I think we still could bring in a OG and RB but I think that they won't until training camp starts and they can evaluate the team.  

[50england50]

I agree with what you have said. I’m interested in the following:

What the Bears do with Mitch’s 5th year option. If it isn’t picked up is the QB an open battle or is it already been given to Foles. If it’s an open battle I’m hoping Mitch take up the challenge and is in a good place being in the 3rd year of this system. I’m hoping the issues with last years were down to the poor TE play and having addressed this he will improve. I’m am still concerned with the OL and whether the play across the board last year is the baseline or can be improved. The Oline coach last year was supposed to be great as is the new one, so I don’t know if the issue is with ability, desire to improve, teaching or all of the 3. 
 

I am looking forward to seeing the front 7 play. With Hicks, Smith and Trevathan healthy and having a legitimate player opposite Mack I could be scary good. 

[Stinger226]

The best case scenario is MT kicks ass and becomes the person his draft status projected.  I think they run a lot 2 TE sets which, even though the TEs are good at blocking,  they get in the way for pursuit angles and contrite some. I think this is  the yr Smith breaks out and has a pro bowl performance. Just makes everyone else better on that defense. 

[McGowan]

Just as a question for everyone: 

Now that the Bears have run both for a long period of time, and have had dominant defenses in both setups, do you prefer a 3-4 defense or a 4-3? 

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, McGowan said:

Just as a question for everyone: 

Now that the Bears have run both for a long period of time, and have had dominant defenses in both setups, do you prefer a 3-4 defense or a 4-3? 

Good question. I would have considered this heresy 10 years ago, but Im a 3-4 convert now.

[Mongo3451]

Here's another topic for the state of the bears.  Nobody in the national media has us rated in the top 20.  Let that sink in.  We have a championship caliber defense, which is half of the equation.  So they think our offense is going to be so bad that it will drag our top 3 defense to 22 in team rankings.  That's ESPN, SI, NFL, CBS and the Sporting News.  They all hate our team and we went 8-8.

[McGowan]

17 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

Here's another topic for the state of the bears.  Nobody in the national media has us rated in the top 20.  Let that sink in.  We have a championship caliber defense, which is half of the equation.  So they think our offense is going to be so bad that it will drag our top 3 defense to 22 in team rankings.  That's ESPN, SI, NFL, CBS and the Sporting News.  They all hate our team and we went 8-8.

Yeah, most power rankings have the Bears as a borderline bottom 5 team in the NFL, even with the defense. 

USA today has them 29th.

NFL.com and CBS have them 25th

Walterfootball.com has them 27th

SI has them 23rd

ESPN had them 19th pre-draft

Bleacher Report has them 26th

 

 

 

[Mongo3451]

8 minutes ago, McGowan said:

Yeah, most power rankings have the Bears as a borderline bottom 5 team in the NFL, even with the defense. 

I hope they read everyone of them.  Plaster them on the locker room walls.

[Stinger226]

I prefer they under rate us. More reason to prove them wrong.  

Last year Patterson has 17 rushes, the year before in NE he had 47 for a 5.4 average.  I think he is our #2 RB and will get 75 to 80 carries.  With the easy way to get 5 mil back on the cap, they kept him. They did not draft or get one in FAgency.  I think unless a cheap option pops up , he's our #2. Cohen is just a specialist and probably gets more reps as a WR.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

43 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

I prefer they under rate us. More reason to prove them wrong.  

Last year Patterson has 17 rushes, the year before in NE he had 47 for a 5.4 average.  I think he is our #2 RB and will get 75 to 80 carries.  With the easy way to get 5 mil back on the cap, they kept him. They did not draft or get one in FAgency.  I think unless a cheap option pops up , he's our #2. Cohen is just a specialist and probably gets more reps as a WR.

If they go that route, wouldn't that kind of open a spot at WR? 

Montgomery, Patterson, Cohen, Nall/Peirce.

Robinson X. Miller Y.   Ginn Z

Wims. X.      Ridley Y.    Mooney Z

[Bill]

6 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

Here's another topic for the state of the bears.  Nobody in the national media has us rated in the top 20.  Let that sink in.  We have a championship caliber defense, which is half of the equation.  So they think our offense is going to be so bad that it will drag our top 3 defense to 22 in team rankings.  That's ESPN, SI, NFL, CBS and the Sporting News.  They all hate our team and we went 8-8.

The last three years has been a roller coaster ride.  I have been so crazy one year and had my heart ripped out the next.  I can't allow myself to believe this year will be much different than last year unless the OL and QB play is much better.  I'm gotten old hoping the defense is going to win anything.  It only did that once in almost 50 years.   Just once I would love to see a QB be the best player on this team.  God damn it, I want to see a league leading offense before I die.  Based on the old saying, defense wins championships, we should of won at least two or three.

[adam]

 

 

1

14 hours ago, McGowan said:

Yeah, most power rankings have the Bears as a borderline bottom 5 team in the NFL, even with the defense. 

USA today has them 29th.

NFL.com and CBS have them 25th

Walterfootball.com has them 27th

SI has them 23rd

ESPN had them 19th pre-draft

Bleacher Report has them 26th

I love this. Let them sleep on the Bears. There is no way a top 12 team that improved from the year before falls off the face of the earth like that. 29th is completely ignorant. The team has improved in the offseason and has an easier schedule with a bunch of players that underwhelmed last year. 

[Stinger226]

I just noticed that after out last 3 signing we have 9.2 left. Over the Cap numbers, not mine. 

[AZ54]

5 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

I just noticed that after out last 3 signing we have 9.2 left. Over the Cap numbers, not mine. 

I just went there and there is only one Gipson on the roster.  No Ginns either.    We're still waiting on an extension for ARob.   There is room if the team wants to bring Jason Peters especially if we cut Shaheen and Braunecker.  

[Alaskan Grizzly]

11 hours ago, adam said:

Let them sleep on the Bears. There is no way a top 12 team that improved from the year before falls off the face of the earth like that. 29th is completely ignorant.

Realistically speaking and aside from the 2006 and 2018 teams we haven’t given anyone outside of Chicago good reason to pay attention to us. That’s my practical side speaking.  But...

Like you said; to have a player of Mack’s caliber paired with a player like Quinn, Smith, Jackson and Hicks led by a highly successful coach in Pagano; it is pure lunacy to think the team would be any less than what they were last year.  The defense by itself did not drop off that much from the transition of Fangio to Pagano.  They were still a top 10 defense, even after losing a core of their starters. With the defense alone they are a top 15 maybe top 10 team. 

With the offense and even my skeptical nature I feel pretty confident they got better, not worse.  Foles I think will do well. IF the line does its job and he doesn’t get hurt.  I actually think a light will go on with Trubisky this year.  He’s threatened for not only his position but career.  If he doesn’t rise up, he’ll forever be relegated to backup duties...somewhere else.  Just how far up he rises will be on him. With the combination of Foles potential and Trubiksy’s drive our offense should easily help keep the team in the top 10 if not top 5. I’d say ‘how goes the QB, so goes the offense’.  

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, AZ54 said:

I just went there and there is only one Gipson on the roster.  No Ginns either.    We're still waiting on an extension for ARob.   There is room if the team wants to bring Jason Peters especially if we cut Shaheen and Braunecker.  

I seen it on Twitter  ,didn't check it myself. 

[adam]

18 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Realistically speaking and aside from the 2006 and 2018 teams we haven’t given anyone outside of Chicago good reason to pay attention to us. That’s my practical side speaking.  But...

Like you said; to have a player of Mack’s caliber paired with a player like Quinn, Smith, Jackson and Hicks led by a highly successful coach in Pagano; it is pure lunacy to think the team would be any less than what they were last year.  The defense by itself did not drop off that much from the transition of Fangio to Pagano.  They were still a top 10 defense, even after losing a core of their starters. With the defense alone they are a top 15 maybe top 10 team. 

With the offense and even my skeptical nature I feel pretty confident they got better, not worse.  Foles I think will do well. IF the line does its job and he doesn’t get hurt.  I actually think a light will go on with Trubisky this year.  He’s threatened for not only his position but career.  If he doesn’t rise up, he’ll forever be relegated to backup duties...somewhere else.  Just how far up he rises will be on him. With the combination of Foles potential and Trubiksy’s drive our offense should easily help keep the team in the top 10 if not top 5. I’d say ‘how goes the QB, so goes the offense’.  

You are absolutely correct. The QB situation is the big wild card. With average QB play this is a 10 win team. I have a feeling that this defense is going to be nasty.  Mack and Quinn, then spelled with Gipson. The DLine gets to rotate in Jenkins. RRH is going to explode. Johnson's style plays perfectly in the pass rush speed. This defense is top 5, which would put the team in the top 15 with a bad offense. So if we can have an average scoring offense, 21 pts a game, with some balance between run and pass, definitely top 10. For me, it will all come down to the QB play. Bad QB play= 7-8 wins, average QB play=9-10 wins, good QB play=11-12, great QB play 13+ wins.

[Stinger226]

Your spot on with the QB projections. 

[AZ54]

10 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

Your spot on with the QB projections. 

Seems to me the play calling needs to be a whole lot better than it was last year.  For a head coach, who by bringing in competition for last year's starting QB has confirmed what we all knew about Trubisky, to have known he had QB issues yet continued to call 80% pass plays is a serious problem.  Do that again and it won't matter if we have Foles or Trubisky behind center.  I've been watching Foles since his days at Univ of Arizona and he's still the same QB who can wins games in the right situations but he won't be more than that.   

Montgomery had one game where he fumbled early (rare for him) and he never touched the ball again in the 2nd half.  That's the guy Nagy said he was glad we traded up in the draft to get.  Nagy loved Montgomery's ability to pass catch and run routes and used that how many times?  At least this time around Pace traded up for defensive players.    

Honestly the s*** show we called an offense last year, including Trubisky stepping back in performance, makes me more concerned with Nagy than anyone else.  People forget he called plays in his career and grand total of half of one season before we hired him.   He might be better HC than OC but if he won't relinquish the reins to the offense he could take the entire ship down with the offense.  Nagy now has his QB (Foles) who is proven to provide a baseline level of performance in this offense.  There's more than one reason Pace went out and made that trade.  If the offense still struggles like last year with Foles at the helm I expect Pace to make a HC change mid-season.  He won't waste his Superbowl caliber defense and that may be the only way he can save his job.  Bill Lazor can call plays and Pagano can be interim HC.   

Trubisky has stolen the spotlight away from where it truly should be IMO.  By the way if Olin Kreutz is right and Trubisky can be successful in another style offense (less read-option more play action/rollout) then that too is on Nagy.  A good coach has to recognize what his players are good at and work to build that into the offense more often.  If Trubisky isn't good on RPOs, as Nagy alluded to mid-season last year, why did he keep calling them?  There are other options in the NFL playbook even Nagy's NFL playbook.  Time will tell on this one.  

[BearFan PHX]

 

42 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

makes me more concerned with Nagy than anyone else.  People forget he called plays in his career and grand total of half of one season before we hired him.   He might be better HC than OC but if he won't relinquish the reins to the offense he could take the entire ship down with the offense.  Nagy now has his QB (Foles) who is proven to provide a baseline level of performance in this offense.  There's more than one reason Pace went out and made that trade.  If the offense still struggles like last year with Foles at the helm I expect Pace to make a HC change mid-season.  He won't waste his Superbowl caliber defense and that may be the only way he can save his job.  Bill Lazor can call plays and Pagano can be interim HC.

I was calling for Nagy's head at the end of last year with this exact same logic.

Nagy WILL get this season (or at least the first half of it) to prove me wrong. It is possible that his offense is the way of the future and will be incredible with the right QB. But not calling run plays is a problem no matter what offense you employ. And that's not all on Leno or Trubisky.

So Nagy will get his chance, and no one will be happier than me to see him succeed. But Im not gonna predict it. I need to see it.

This defense will be nasty, and you're right, and average offense should get us to the playoffs.

And if Nagy cant field an average offense, and wont let go of the OC position, then he can go try somewhere else.

One wonders if that is what happens whether Pace makes it to next year. Personally, I like Pace more than I dislike him, but he and Nagy are both probably on the hot seat.

[adam]

6 hours ago, AZ54 said:

Seems to me the play calling needs to be a whole lot better than it was last year.  For a head coach, who by bringing in competition for last year's starting QB has confirmed what we all knew about Trubisky, to have known he had QB issues yet continued to call 80% pass plays is a serious problem.  Do that again and it won't matter if we have Foles or Trubisky behind center.  I've been watching Foles since his days at Univ of Arizona and he's still the same QB who can wins games in the right situations but he won't be more than that.   

Montgomery had one game where he fumbled early (rare for him) and he never touched the ball again in the 2nd half.  That's the guy Nagy said he was glad we traded up in the draft to get.  Nagy loved Montgomery's ability to pass catch and run routes and used that how many times?  At least this time around Pace traded up for defensive players.    

Honestly the s*** show we called an offense last year, including Trubisky stepping back in performance, makes me more concerned with Nagy than anyone else.  People forget he called plays in his career and grand total of half of one season before we hired him.   He might be better HC than OC but if he won't relinquish the reins to the offense he could take the entire ship down with the offense.  Nagy now has his QB (Foles) who is proven to provide a baseline level of performance in this offense.  There's more than one reason Pace went out and made that trade.  If the offense still struggles like last year with Foles at the helm I expect Pace to make a HC change mid-season.  He won't waste his Superbowl caliber defense and that may be the only way he can save his job.  Bill Lazor can call plays and Pagano can be interim HC.   

Trubisky has stolen the spotlight away from where it truly should be IMO.  By the way if Olin Kreutz is right and Trubisky can be successful in another style offense (less read-option more play action/rollout) then that too is on Nagy.  A good coach has to recognize what his players are good at and work to build that into the offense more often.  If Trubisky isn't good on RPOs, as Nagy alluded to mid-season last year, why did he keep calling them?  There are other options in the NFL playbook even Nagy's NFL playbook.  Time will tell on this one.  

The playcalling thing is so hard to figure out. There is a chance that Nagy just sucks at playcalling. Highly possible. On the flip side, there were stories about Trubisky not grasping the concepts and Nagy having to dial back the offense to Mickey Mouse levels. So if you now only have a couple of basic plays to run, the defense can key on those much easier and make the plays look terrible (like Tecmo Bowl when you choose the right defense). 

The misdirection plays were so predictable that they would lose yards because the defense was playing the play for the misdirection. 

One thing I noticed last year was Trubisky didn't even attempt to fake out the defense with his movements. I can't even remember if he looked off the safeties one time last year, or exaggerated the fake handoff on a play-action pass. He was doing those things as a rookie. I don't know what happened. All I can think of is that he got overwhelmed with the offense and the "wrinkles" and just locked up. You can see it in his face, eyes, and even his pocket presence. Maybe he can snap out of it. All I want to see is consistent QB play. 

[Mongo3451]

My hope is that Foles is the great teammate everyone says he is.  Hope x2 is that he can remind Nagy of his roots.

[adam]

1 hour ago, Mongo3451 said:

My hope is that Foles is the great teammate everyone says he is.  Hope x2 is that he can remind Nagy of his roots.

From all accounts, he handled the Wentz situation very well and you didn't hear any bads things in Jacksonville when Minshew took over.

[AZ54]

15 hours ago, adam said:

The playcalling thing is so hard to figure out. There is a chance that Nagy just sucks at playcalling. Highly possible. On the flip side, there were stories about Trubisky not grasping the concepts and Nagy having to dial back the offense to Mickey Mouse levels. So if you now only have a couple of basic plays to run, the defense can key on those much easier and make the plays look terrible (like Tecmo Bowl when you choose the right defense). 

The misdirection plays were so predictable that they would lose yards because the defense was playing the play for the misdirection. 

One thing I noticed last year was Trubisky didn't even attempt to fake out the defense with his movements. I can't even remember if he looked off the safeties one time last year, or exaggerated the fake handoff on a play-action pass. He was doing those things as a rookie. I don't know what happened. All I can think of is that he got overwhelmed with the offense and the "wrinkles" and just locked up. You can see it in his face, eyes, and even his pocket presence. Maybe he can snap out of it. All I want to see is consistent QB play. 

I agree something happened to make Trubisky literally go backwards in his confidence and execution.  

[DABEARSDABOMB]

On 5/2/2020 at 10:39 AM, AZ54 said:

I just went there and there is only one Gipson on the roster.  No Ginns either.    We're still waiting on an extension for ARob.   There is room if the team wants to bring Jason Peters especially if we cut Shaheen and Braunecker.  

If they get creative, they could probably do Peters and Warford. Talk about a huge boost to the oline (and competition on the oline).  That would depend on getting Robinson extended.