Home Field Advantage

[AZ54]

This season could be very interesting as different governors react differently to this year's pandemic.  I say this year's pandemic because we have one every few years and most are worse than the current one.   Anyway as I look at our schedule I see an away game in Week 1 at Detroit.  That being one state where the governor refuses to let people sit alone in a boat.  I'd say there's a good chance we don't have fans at that game and that's a big help for us.  Later we have Week 7 in LA where we have another governor who is now worried about a 3rd wave of Coronavirus.  That should be another great opportunity to see a level playing field on the road.  OTOH I don't live in Illinois but I see headlines where the governor wants to put people in jail for trying to earn a living.  Unfortunately at this point it appears quite likely the Bears will be giving up home field advantage too.   

The question is what will the NFL do when some states allow people to enjoy their life again while others persist in lockdowns?   Any team having full stadiums will have a significant advantage at home that others won't have.   Wouldn't you love to play at Seattle without fans?  Would it make sense to move games to a neutral field where fans could enjoy the game?  Or do you just ban fans at all games waiting on the last governor to give in?  I've seen one post where a European soccer fan said watching a match without fans was brutally bad.   I'll be watching games either way but I expect it will be much the same for the NFL.  

[Mongo3451]

I think whatever they do, it will be league wide.

[Lucky Luciano]

9 hours ago, AZ54 said:

"This season could be very interesting as different governors react differently to this year's pandemic.  I say this year's pandemic because we have one every few years and most are worse than the current one."

i really don't want to get into some political jargon flame war on here. it just is NOT the place to do so, but for safeties sake what you are saying is pure BULLSHIT.... just what pandemics are you talking about that we have every few years that kill more U.S. citizens in 3 months than 10 years in the vietnam war?

58,220 U.S. soldiers and civilians were killed in vietnam. so far a conservative estimate of deaths from this pandemic is as of today over 95,000 in the United States.

Later we have Week 7 in LA where we have another governor who is now worried about a 3rd wave of Coronavirus.  That should be another great opportunity to see a level playing field on the road.  OTOH I don't live in Illinois but I see headlines where the governor wants to put people in jail for trying to earn a living.  Unfortunately at this point it appears quite likely the Bears will be giving up home field advantage too. 

 complete misinformed NONSENSE!

if you want to bet your life listening to some imbecile politician or talking heads working at the ministry of public enlightenment feel free to do so. i prefer listening to what doctors, scientists and the CDC has to say, when not being STIFLED, on how to proceed safely in this crisis and NOT infect other men, women and CHILDREN with a deadly virus. i just don't feel like killing other people i don't know especially for the sake of watching a F'...NG sporting event.

 

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

I was going to say that if I learned nothing more about the Colin Kaepernick episode of a few years ago; politics and sports need to be separate.  Especially in today’s world.

I’ll leave the decision of what’s best to the NFL players and their fans to the Owners, commissioner and the Union (aka all players).  I’ll leave the decision of what’s best for each individual state and its residents to their respective leadership.  

If it means games with empty stands, so be it. If it means no football this year, also fine.  

[Lucky Luciano]

5 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

If it means games with empty stands, so be it. If it means no football this year, also fine.  

thank you

 

[AZ54]

50 minutes ago, Lucky Luciano said:

 

That's not political it would be just facts and medical science.  Epidemics in the last 20 years:   H1N1, Ebola, SARS, MERS, Swine Flu.  Some were really bad in some regions of the world and nobody knows why they died out (see Ebola).  Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.  History says there will be another pandemic within ~5 years too. 

We now know a lot about the latest pandemic, far more than what we knew in Feb.  Children are protected from Corona virus becoming life threatening in part due to their naturally high levels of melatonin.  Other natural things like vitamin D levels greatly affect disease outcomes significantly.  That's not because vitamin D helps cure you it's because of how it affects your immune system.  High risk people are very susceptible to the virus turning into COVID 19 and that will never change.  This will be with us forever and will be genetically different every year.  Like the flu, a vaccine will prevent people from previous known versions.  It's not going away.  

We now know how to treat the disease (COVID 19 is different from getting this particular Corona virus itself) with a very high success rate above 90% and generally as high as 99% although the highest risk patients still struggle to recover.  That will only improve over the summer as data from thousands of treatments becomes available in the next few weeks.  

Regarding football and the discussion at hand:  It is a fact different leaders react differently to the risks regardless of political affiliation.  That will affect states as well as countries around the world (see London games already canceled).  It appears these differences will cascade into the NFL season with varying levels of social activity being allowed.  Some teams will have an opportunity to have their home field advantage with fans unless the league steps in and says no fans anywhere.  Will that happen?  Are they going to refund all that season ticket money?  Do you refund people who paid for seat licenses?  If you can have fans at games in some locations would you move games to those locations?  

We don't need to get into a  discussion on why leaders react differently.  Political affiliation has not driven decisions you can look around the country and see it's individuals.  If you think I don't care about people understand I have 3 very high risk people in my close family on chemotherapy,  and heart disease with diabetes.  That might be why I spend so much time reading medical articles and journals on this.  It's also why I'll gladly attend a game but I will not be taking my parents to one.  

[Stinger226]

Lucky your the one that stated sports and politics  shouldn't be mixed on a sports site and yet your the one that changed the post into a political discussion.  First of all AZ didn't say anything political, said some simple facts and how it might affect the games we will watch. Being in Thailand ( hopefully I get to go home on the 28th) there isn't anything mixed with politics.  A couple months will make a big difference on how we view this virus.  Here they will be open on June 1st to 90% of every thing. They have around 3000 cases and 56 deaths.  They never completely closed down but had restrictions for 2 months with a population of 70 million. My point is other countries are adapting and its ending up not being the death virus as people tell you it is. I caught it at the end if January and it was mild, with no hospitalization.  At 67 but healthy it wasn't hard on me.  Obviously people with existing health problems are the most vulnerable. 

I think you have to compare this to other viruses not wars.  The details are totally different.  By the time we get to September, we will find out that the mortality rate isn't much different than the common flu. Many states and countries will be open and display that everything can be closer to normal without all this hysteria and the sports will start to get back to normal.  If your don't agree just lock yourself in your house and you won't have to worry about it.

 

 

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

3 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

If your don't agree just lock yourself in your house and you won't have to worry about it.

 

That very comment is biased and political by its very nature.  And probably one of the lamest out there.

How this post was presented with its supporting facts/conjecture is and if itself, political.  As you can see there is an extreme feeling or viewpoint on what and how things should be done next; opposite of what was proposed.  Rushing to a re-opening so we can watch football in all the respective states is not the majority view. Nor is keeping everything “locked down”. For this pandemic there is a common ground that can be met, but because of politics...we can’t get there. 

If you and AZ claim to be as concerned about the science as you allege, you’d understand that although this virus may not kill you it very well could kill someone you love or someone else down the line. Like with many viruses, the average incubation period of 2 weeks allows it to be transmitted from one host to another without detection.  In fact several studies have concluded and been proven that asymptomatic carriers could be more prevalent than we realize.  When you introduce the idea of ‘herd immunity’ as you did above you then again pit science against economics.  Ergo: politics.

As I said before, in my humble opinion sports and politics should not be interwoven.  One is simply for entertainment purpose and to allow an escape from the stressors of everyday life, the other adds unnecessary stressors to that life. 

[Mongo3451]

Some of you sensitive babies just come on here looking for an argument. 

Ignorance is responding to a topic without actually addressing it.  What are your thoughts on the topic?

[Bill]

We can all have our different opinions on everything.  My understanding of the NFL is that the restrictions put on by any state, AZ, IL, or CA. etc. is the basis of how they will play everywhere no matter what that state's rules are.  Again as I have said before I don't see games this year with fans period.

[Connorbear]

2 hours ago, Bill said:

We can all have our different opinions on everything.  My understanding of the NFL is that the restrictions put on by any state, AZ, IL, or CA. etc. is the basis of how they will play everywhere no matter what that state's rules are.  Again as I have said before I don't see games this year with fans period.

This 100%

Peace

[Alaskan Grizzly]

4 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

Ignorance is responding to a topic without actually addressing it.  What are your thoughts on the topic?

*edit* Never mind.  Not worth it.

I’ll stand by my original statement and leave it in the hands of the respective experts/professionals.

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

3 hours ago, Bill said:

We can all have our different opinions on everything.  My understanding of the NFL is that the restrictions put on by any state, AZ, IL, or CA. etc. is the basis of how they will play everywhere no matter what that state's rules are.  Again as I have said before I don't see games this year with fans period.

And I’d second Connor’s acknowledgement.  Well said Bill.

[Stinger226]

5 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

That very comment is biased and political by its very nature.  And probably one of the lamest out there.

How this post was presented with its supporting facts/conjecture is and if itself, political.  As you can see there is an extreme feeling or viewpoint on what and how things should be done next; opposite of what was proposed.  Rushing to a re-opening so we can watch football in all the respective states is not the majority view. Nor is keeping everything “locked down”. For this pandemic there is a common ground that can be met, but because of politics...we can’t get there. 

If you and AZ claim to be as concerned about the science as you allege, you’d understand that although this virus may not kill you it very well could kill someone you love or someone else down the line. Like with many viruses, the average incubation period of 2 weeks allows it to be transmitted from one host to another without detection.  In fact several studies have concluded and been proven that asymptomatic carriers could be more prevalent than we realize.  When you introduce the idea of ‘herd immunity’ as you did above you then again pit science against economics.  Ergo: politics.

As I said before, in my humble opinion sports and politics should not be interwoven.  One is simply for entertainment purpose and to allow an escape from the stressors of everyday life, the other adds unnecessary stressors to that life. 

You're really good at stating facts and show no information to back it up. I shared my personal experience with the disease being oversees.  I contracted the disease and can only give you how it affected me.  Can you share your personal experience with the disease? Oh you never contracted it thanks for your MSM view of it. AZ posting about how some of the lockdowns may affect the football games.!( nothing political) . He didn't try to give a moral view of it . I particularly like your statement ( rushing to a reopening so we can watch football in all the respective states is not the majority view) . Can you show me a source for your statement? I didn't see any polls that showed those confirmation facts. Many states have put out the stay at home order, red and blue, so how is that bias and political? I think if you buy into hysteria model view of the virus, stay the freak home.  If you live in a nursing home, surely never go out. In Pennsylvania the governor ordered cov19 patients to recover in nursing homes and 70% of the deaths in that state came from nursing homes. That is a political statement, it was a democratic governor. So when all this is over and the facts show that the virus mortality rate is similar to the common flu, ( my opinion now and facts will prove that true or false)you going to stick to the same hysteria model of the virus? Lame lame lame lame 

[Stinger226]

20 hours ago, AZ54 said:

That's not political it would be just facts and medical science.  Epidemics in the last 20 years:   H1N1, Ebola, SARS, MERS, Swine Flu.  Some were really bad in some regions of the world and nobody knows why they died out (see Ebola).  Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good.  History says there will be another pandemic within ~5 years too. 

We now know a lot about the latest pandemic, far more than what we knew in Feb.  Children are protected from Corona virus becoming life threatening in part due to their naturally high levels of melatonin.  Other natural things like vitamin D levels greatly affect disease outcomes significantly.  That's not because vitamin D helps cure you it's because of how it affects your immune system.  High risk people are very susceptible to the virus turning into COVID 19 and that will never change.  This will be with us forever and will be genetically different every year.  Like the flu, a vaccine will prevent people from previous known versions.  It's not going away.  

We now know how to treat the disease (COVID 19 is different from getting this particular Corona virus itself) with a very high success rate above 90% and generally as high as 99% although the highest risk patients still struggle to recover.  That will only improve over the summer as data from thousands of treatments becomes available in the next few weeks.  

Regarding football and the discussion at hand:  It is a fact different leaders react differently to the risks regardless of political affiliation.  That will affect states as well as countries around the world (see London games already canceled).  It appears these differences will cascade into the NFL season with varying levels of social activity being allowed.  Some teams will have an opportunity to have their home field advantage with fans unless the league steps in and says no fans anywhere.  Will that happen?  Are they going to refund all that season ticket money?  Do you refund people who paid for seat licenses?  If you can have fans at games in some locations would you move games to those locations?  

We don't need to get into a  discussion on why leaders react differently.  Political affiliation has not driven decisions you can look around the country and see it's individuals.  If you think I don't care about people understand I have 3 very high risk people in my close family on chemotherapy,  and heart disease with diabetes.  That might be why I spend so much time reading medical articles and journals on this.  It's also why I'll gladly attend a game but I will not be taking my parents to one.  

How dare you research subjects and give factual information.  This is a sports blog. Kidding, I'm a smart ass so I can see why I get into battles with people but I can't remember one instance where you never gave well researched ideas with well thought opinions.  I haven't always agreed but always gave you credit when you deserved it. When you disagreed with me you never gave an opinion that contained malice . Things have been very calm around here until lucky and grizz decided to slam people.  Grizz in my last post when you mentioned (herd immunity ) of which I never did , how does that term reflect politics? The economics of football reopening is an NFL thing that has nothing to do with herd immunity which is a scientific term related to diseases. 

[adam]

Holy cow, I come in for home-field advantage and see that this thread has taken a huge turn.

So for the topic, we have a very favorable schedule in terms of travel distance and when we have long and short weeks. We don't play on Thanksgiving or 3 games in 11 days this year. Our TNF game is at home, which is huge. The no fans thing will be interesting. Part of the league's revenue come from ticket sales, so I can see several courses of action play out. First no fans, second, some type of capacity restriction, like 50% with spaced seating and every other row. I doubt we get to a full capacity until there is a vaccine.

Now to the other topics, this whole COVID situation has been absolutely crazy. I just retired from the Army on May 1st but was still in for the ramp-up in March and April. I can tell you that the government acted on the information that had at the time. The models were terrible, but that's what they were going off. Also, the states did not need to wait for the entire country to act. NY could've closed down way earlier when they started to spike. California and Washington did a great job with containment. 

At the end of the day, if we would've had a stricter policy earlier, things would've been much different, but even with restrictions in place, people still did what the hell they wanted. I now live in Alabama, the day they changed the stay at home order, it was like a jailbreak. Everyone out and about with no masks and then a few days later, our numbers in a few areas blow up. People in general just need to be more considerate of others, it is not hard, we don't need the government to tell us to be polite to each other, clean up after yourselves, and if you are sick, stay at home. 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

2 hours ago, adam said:

At the end of the day, if we would've had a stricter policy earlier, things would've been much different, but even with restrictions in place, people still did what the hell they wanted. I now live in Alabama, the day they changed the stay at home order, it was like a jailbreak. Everyone out and about with no masks and then a few days later, our numbers in a few areas blow up. People in general just need to be more considerate of others, it is not hard, we don't need the government to tell us to be polite to each other, clean up after yourselves, and if you are sick, stay at home. 

Holy cow Adam I thought you retired several years ago(?). What’d you do 30 years?  Lol...  congrats on your retirement and thank you for your service.  I retired back in ‘09 and that seems like an eon ago.

But in response to your statement above.  Very well said and thank you for sharing your thoughts.  It is as simple as that.  Not sure what all occurred at the upper levels of government not even at the state level but yes the response was slow across the board.  The 10th amendment does in fact allow states to essentially govern and protect their citizenry aside from what the Federal Government can and should do.  So the culpability (and hopefully success) of the before and after affects of this are shared across the board.  

 

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

3 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

Grizz in my last post when you mentioned (herd immunity ) of which I never did , how does that term reflect politics? The economics of football reopening is an NFL thing that has nothing to do with herd immunity which is a scientific term related to diseases.

Yes it would seem most times I post you get your panties in a twist.  With you it doesn’t take much. 

You mentioned the current mantra of ‘stay at home if you don’t like it’ which is an element of herd immunity. You also ‘assume’ that everything will be alright and won’t be much worse than the ‘common flu’. I don’t see the point in me citing facts for you as I’m sure you’d ignore them anyhow and you have your mind made up.  So allegedly having COVID makes you an expert on the matter? I suppose my driving fast qualifies me as a race car driver? Probably not.  

If you’d like to continue this discussion off-line please feel free to send me a DM.  I’ll be more than willing to carry on if you are.
 

Go Bears.  

[Stinger226]

You must be off your medication, you literally make no sense.  You really should stick to sports, at least your posts should a resemblance of intelligence.  Stay at home = herd immunity?

Herd immunity: 

the resistance to the spread of a contagious disease within a population that results if a sufficiently high proportion of individuals are immune to the disease, especially through vaccination.

"the level of vaccination needed to achieve herd immunity varies by disease but ranges from 83 to 94 percent"

 

Herd immunity has nothing to do with stay at home policy. 

Since I had the disease ,  I researched it more than you which is quite obvious by  your remarks.  You need to do a little research first or   I  would be  wasting my time talking about the virus with you . There is some really good studies being done in France, South Korea, Taiwan and California dealing with the antibodies testing which suggests why I assumed the virus is similar to the common flu in death rate. 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

9 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

Stay at home = herd immunity?

Didn’t say it was the definition of herd immunity, but that it’s an element of...herd immunity.  Here’s an article from Johns Hopkins on the matter.  (since you Insist in cites).  It speaks a little on the earlier point AZ made and dispels your theory on the commonality to the flu.   

https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/achieving-herd-immunity-with-covid19.html

I swear I’m done this time...

[adam]

 

 

 

 

2

4 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Holy cow Adam I thought you retired several years ago(?). What’d you do 30 years?  Lol...  congrats on your retirement and thank you for your service.  I retired back in ‘09 and that seems like an eon ago.

But in response to your statement above.  Very well said and thank you for sharing your thoughts.  It is as simple as that.  Not sure what all occurred at the upper levels of government not even at the state level but yes the response was slow across the board.  The 10th amendment does in fact allow states to essentially govern and protect their citizenry aside from what the Federal Government can and should do.  So the culpability (and hopefully success) of the before and after affects of this are shared across the board.  

Retired on active duty maybe lol. Nope, officially done, 27 years and 6 months. Thanks and thanks for your service as well! 

There were a lot of unknowns with everything. You can only prepare so much for every possible disaster. I know everyone sees the budget and thinks these things are prepared annually, which they are, but they are planning for things 3-5 years out. So if there is a problem this year, it's likely that funding was changed 3-5 years ago. 

What I find fascinating is that everyone is quick to place blame. Is it really the President's or Governor's fault if you contracted the coronavirus? Especially weeks after the quarantine. If you are getting infected, obviously you are not following the guidelines. 

I hate to see all these deaths, where many could've been prevented, but like you said AZ, the blame needs to be shared across the board if you have to assign blame.

 

[adam]

One thing about testing is that you can test negative one day, then get exposed the next day, and unless you test again, you may not even show symptoms, and if you don't follow the social distancing guidelines, you can expose a lot of people. So unless you test everyone everyday, unless they tested positive for antibodies, so at this point there is not much we can do except protect those at risk (elderly, immuno-compromised), and provide them with protection and support, while letting everyone else go back to the new norm. 

[Stinger226]

I look at the CDC website every day and one interesting stat  I seen yesterday is that only 5% of the cov19 deaths are from patients under 40.  The average age of the cov19 deaths is 81. That 80 % of the people that catch the virus have no or low symptoms.  So like you said we have to concentrate on the most vulnerable to the disease.  It's still 3 and a half months away from regular season games and I think we end up having spectators in the stands for most of the games.  Florida and Georgia are now open with no spikes in death totals. 

 

 

[adam]

12 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

 

 

 

 

2

12 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

I look at the CDC website every day and one interesting stat  I seen yesterday is that only 5% of the cov19 deaths are from patients under 40.  The average age of the cov19 deaths is 81. That 80 % of the people that catch the virus have no or low symptoms.  So like you said we have to concentrate on the most vulnerable to the disease.  It's still 3 and a half months away from regular season games and I think we end up having spectators in the stands for most of the games.  Florida and Georgia are now open with no spikes in death totals. 

Any type of containment strategy starts with the ability to detect the presence of whatever you are trying to contain. Since so many people are asymptomatic, it makes containment nearly impossible. The problem was, as a society, we really got complacent against these types of threats. We should be practicing social distancing when practical anyway and establishments should have stricter cleanliness guidelines, especially with common surfaces and air circulation. Shopping cart washes, automatic doors, and the daily cleansing of mass transit should be mandatory (where feasible). For a lot of those places, besides the standard cleaning, all they have to do is install UVC lights and have them on when there are no people inside. Kill everything, including some bugs. Stores could install them, and when the last person locks up, boom, the UV lights come on. Also, masks should be worn during flu seasons or when there is any risk of a viral spread. The government should give out reusable masks to those that can't or don't want to buy their own. That way it doesn't stress the supply chain of medical masks when they are needed for medical professionals. We also need to bring back all medication manufacturing to the US. The fact that we rely on so many foreign countries for that is crazy. /End Rant

[Stinger226]

20 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Didn’t say it was the definition of herd immunity, but that it’s an element of...herd immunity.  Here’s an article from Johns Hopkins on the matter.  (since you Insist in cites).  It speaks a little on the earlier point AZ made and dispels your theory on the commonality to the flu.   

https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/achieving-herd-immunity-with-covid19.html

I swear I’m done this time...

You said your done with this after you started slamming something I said when I was responding to lucky. Knowing that would trigger me . Then you  said I get my panties in an uproar every time you post something.  Apparently you're not capable of stopping this pettiness but I'm going to go against my nature and will stop here. Mongo made the point and he's right. So smart off all you want , I quit this stupidity.