Fire Nagy

[BearFan PHX]

I am 100% on firing Nagy, I am 50/50 on Pace, because I think Pace was trying to get the kind of players that Nagy wants. It may be that Nagy wants fast mobile offensive linemen, and they just dont get the job done unless they are higher picks.

I think that Nagy has less to do with the defense, and Pace has been pretty good on that side of the ball.

I can see the argument either way on Pace, I wont cry if he is fired, I wont cry if he is kept. But Nagy HAS to go.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

6 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Found an interesting article that puts an interesting spin on how the Bears and specifically Nagy are doing.  Some highlights:  Nagy's overall record is 25-16.  Compare that to other coaches hired at the same time; Mike Vrabel (24-16), Frank Reich (23-17), Jon Gruden (16-25) and Matt Patricia (12-27-1) he's ahead of them all at this point. His age puts him as the 9th youngest coach in the league.  With that he hasn't had a lot of time to gain that in game experience which is shown with his game management.  Lastly, he works with what he's been given.  Many here will point out that Pace hasn't really done a great job in managing the Bears picks.  A few years ago he got cute by drafting a bunch of D2 players that haven't all worked out.  He divested the future in trading up for players like Trubisky and Mack by losing draft picks that could have helped contribute to the lack of depth we currently find the team in. 

All in all, I think more of the blame is on Pace than  Nagy at this point.  But if you get rid of Pace do you keep Nagy?  
 

https://beargoggleson.com/2020/11/09/3-reasons-matt-nagy-hot-seat/amp/1/

 

What new GM would want to be forced to keep a coach? That has been a  major problem with this organization.  If one goes they both go, imo.  If that happens, work fast to get a new GM in to get his coaches, scouts, etc so they can build the team in their mold. 

[BearFan PHX]

14 hours ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

What new GM would want to be forced to keep a coach? That has been a  major problem with this organization.  If one goes they both go, imo.  If that happens, work fast to get a new GM in to get his coaches, scouts, etc so they can build the team in their mold. 

for sure. You never force a GM to keep a coach.

I suppose you might have a deal where the new GM keeps the coach for ONE YEAR while they take the time to find the replacement. That certainly does happen with scouting departments, but any new GM hire has to know he has the right to hire his coach.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

8 hours ago, BearFan NYC said:

for sure. You never force a GM to keep a coach.

I suppose you might have a deal where the new GM keeps the coach for ONE YEAR while they take the time to find the replacement. That certainly does happen with scouting departments, but any new GM hire has to know he has the right to hire his coach.

They could do that, but it could possible have the lame coach effect.  Wipe the slate clean unless the new GM wants the coach.  They will have to go through an overhaul again.  Try trading older players for draft capital, build you front lines first and find your key position leaders (which on D, I think we are good with Roquan and EJackson) On O, need the QB and good chance a WR.  

[BearFan PHX]

23 hours ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

They could do that, but it could possible have the lame coach effect.  Wipe the slate clean unless the new GM wants the coach.  They will have to go through an overhaul again.  Try trading older players for draft capital, build you front lines first and find your key position leaders (which on D, I think we are good with Roquan and EJackson) On O, need the QB and good chance a WR.  

yup - thats the usual plan.

[McGowan]

On 11/11/2020 at 9:15 PM, ASHKUM BEAR said:

They could do that, but it could possible have the lame coach effect.  Wipe the slate clean unless the new GM wants the coach.  They will have to go through an overhaul again.  Try trading older players for draft capital, build you front lines first and find your key position leaders (which on D, I think we are good with Roquan and EJackson) On O, need the QB and good chance a WR.  

Whomever the GM is, don't let Robinson get away for free. You have to get SOMETHING for him. 

It's within a team's ability to Franchise a player and then subsequently allow his agent to seek a trade, right? 

[adam]

Wow, he did it:

 

[adam]

So now what? If the team struggles, is Nagy safe? If the offense looks good, is Nagy safe? 

Even though it had to be done, it seems like he is not going win either way. If they keep losing, can he just say "see, it wasn't me" or if they start winning and the offense looks good, then that's a huge indictment on him.

[Mongo3451]

9 hours ago, adam said:

So now what? If the team struggles, is Nagy safe? If the offense looks good, is Nagy safe? 

Even though it had to be done, it seems like he is not going win either way. If they keep losing, can he just say "see, it wasn't me" or if they start winning and the offense looks good, then that's a huge indictment on him.

If Lazor succeeds as a play caller, it won't be a huge indictment on Nagy.  It's still Nagy's offense and game plan.  He would also win huge points with the team showing he's man enough to know what his strengths and weaknesses are.  Huge win overall if Lazor succeeds.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

5 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

If Lazor succeeds as a play caller, it won't be a huge indictment on Nagy.  It's still Nagy's offense and game plan.  He would also win huge points with the team showing he's man enough to know what his strengths and weaknesses are.  Huge win overall if Lazor succeeds.

I like this with the team still 5-4 going into a more favorable part of the schedule.  Ive always been a bit suspect of Lazor but I guess we’ll see Monday if he knows what he’s doing.  

[adam]

2 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

I like this with the team still 5-4 going into a more favorable part of the schedule.  Ive always been a bit suspect of Lazor but I guess we’ll see Monday if he knows what he’s doing.  

Every game is winnable, but every game is loseable. The offense really needs to get going to have a chance. We just need average offense to be a playoff team. Once we get in, and Foles can find his postseason groove, we actually have as good of a chance as most teams to make a deep playoff run. The O-Line and playcalling have to get better.

[Connorbear]

18 hours ago, adam said:

So now what? If the team struggles, is Nagy safe? If the offense looks good, is Nagy safe? 

Even though it had to be done, it seems like he is not going win either way. If they keep losing, can he just say "see, it wasn't me" or if they start winning and the offense looks good, then that's a huge indictment on him.

Nagy has never run away from blame. He always has said the team has to be better and that starts with him. 

Peace

[ASHKUM BEAR]

3 hours ago, Connorbear said:

Nagy has never run away from blame. He always has said the team has to be better and that starts with him. 

Peace

I am glad he finally released the reins of playcalling.  Like a young QB, sometimes holding the clip board and watching helps you grow.  If the offense finds rhythm, great.  Not saying they have to play like all-stars, but look like an NFL unit.  They have enough games to build upon and if Foles can look the part, it would be great to see the early picks go to rebuilding the line. 

[adam]

I am glad he made the move. That is a huge move for him and the more I sit back and look at it, the more I respect him for the decision. I am sure it wasn't easy, especially on the ego. To me, this buys him some time. They replaced coaches, switched QBs, and now the playcaller. So if it doesn't work now, what's next? That is my only concern. If this doesn't work, we are in some serious trouble. 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

3 hours ago, adam said:

I am glad he made the move. That is a huge move for him and the more I sit back and look at it, the more I respect him for the decision. I am sure it wasn't easy, especially on the ego. To me, this buys him some time. They replaced coaches, switched QBs, and now the playcaller. So if it doesn't work now, what's next? That is my only concern. If this doesn't work, we are in some serious trouble. 

It was in his best interest.  The team is at the crossroads and failure would fall squarely on him if he refused to change.  Now he can shed some light either way the team goes.  They need this game more than anything. 

 

[Bertva]

my replacement for Nagy is....

 Todd Bowles

[Alaskan Grizzly]

So thinking out loud, what if Denver decides to can Fangio?  Would it make sense to entertain Vics return as HC? If you look back at the dream season a few years ago (Nagys first) the team was building momentum on a lot of what the defense was doing.  Vic was carried over from when Fox was axed and following that awesome season and awesome defense he built, found his own HC gig.  

To me Vic is more of a Bear HC.  He’s a bit surly and authoritative.  Someone said recently that Pagano (my second choice) is too soft due to his not wanting to hold his players accountable.  That seemed to ring true after last weekend.  Vic wouldn’t put up with that.  He might be just what the doctor ordered to get things pointed in the right direction. 

Or then there’s Jim Harbaugh...

 

 

 

 

[Mongo3451]

7 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

So thinking out loud, what if Denver decides to can Fangio?  Would it make sense to entertain Vics return as HC? If you look back at the dream season a few years ago (Nagys first) the team was building momentum on a lot of what the defense was doing.  Vic was carried over from when Fox was axed and following that awesome season and awesome defense he built, found his own HC gig.  

To me Vic is more of a Bear HC.  He’s a bit surly and authoritative.  Someone said recently that Pagano (my second choice) is too soft due to his not wanting to hold his players accountable.  That seemed to ring true after last weekend.  Vic wouldn’t put up with that.  He might be just what the doctor ordered to get things pointed in the right direction. 

Or then there’s Jim Harbaugh...

I'd take Vic back in a heartbeat to run the defense.  Not sure if he's a long term answer for HC.

Just say no to Harbaugh.  I seriously hate that guy.

[BearFan PHX]

Yes! Let Vic run the team and the defense, and he will bring in an OC who runs the ball. I dont want a Jetsons futuristic offense.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

On 11/22/2020 at 1:57 PM, Bertva said:

my replacement for Nagy is....

 Todd Bowles

I actually like the idea of a defensive minded coach being the next HC. Our try at Offense oriented guys doesn’t seem to work as of late; Trestman, Nagy.  
 

Defensive type head coaches tend to be more conservative in their preference of play calling. Which is boring but less prone to mistakes and more higher percentages of success.  Of course that also all depends on who the OC is...

To me Chicago football is ‘5 yards and a cloud of dust’ on offense and a totally dominant and kick ass take no names defense. 
 

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Although personally not a fan, Dan Orlovsky makes a pretty good breakdown of Trubisky here that should’ve been a score.  The article that contained this tweet said the blame is simple mechanics and that Trubisky should’ve been able to fix it by now in the three years he’s been playing in this system and definitely tweaked things for the better after sitting on the bench these last five weeks.  And that Nagy has failed him overall in making him a better QB.  
 

 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

Im seeing this stuff all over again, but where were these breakdowns when Foles was making the same mistakes? Was he sound on mechanics, oh but then it was the olines fault.  It is a fed narrative. Sure he makes mistakes and freezing frames helps his point but unless you get a chosen QB, you have to put up with this. 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

11 hours ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

Im seeing this stuff all over again, but where were these breakdowns when Foles was making the same mistakes? Was he sound on mechanics, oh but then it was the olines fault.  It is a fed narrative. Sure he makes mistakes and freezing frames helps his point but unless you get a chosen QB, you have to put up with this. 

Again not really a fan of Orlovskys...but he did play the position in the NFL.  (Even if he did infamously run out of the back of the end zone).  I think the point here is to add that not only is Nagy not able to coach ‘his guy’ but that despite being in the same system for a number of years AND having a few weeks to think about how he could get better and work on his mechanics, Trubiksy didn’t.  We’d hope, given his position in the draft and title as future Franchise QB that at some point it would click.  It hasn’t.  We all know Foles isn’t ‘that guy’.  I had hope early on he’d be able to at least get us through this year, but that was fleeting.  

[ASHKUM BEAR]

3 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Again not really a fan of Orlovskys...but he did play the position in the NFL.  (Even if he did infamously run out of the back of the end zone).  I think the point here is to add that not only is Nagy not able to coach ‘his guy’ but that despite being in the same system for a number of years AND having a few weeks to think about how he could get better and work on his mechanics, Trubiksy didn’t.  We’d hope, given his position in the draft and title as future Franchise QB that at some point it would click.  It hasn’t.  We all know Foles isn’t ‘that guy’.  I had hope early on he’d be able to at least get us through this year, but that was fleeting.  

I agree Trubisky hasn't grasped much in 4 years.  I just hate how the media hangs Trubisky non stop but gives every excuse for Foles.  First Foles had to knock the rust off, then it became his oline was bad, then it was the play calling. 

You cannot become good or elite without a good line to give you time, good play calling, and good routes and hands.  You will never gain the experience or confidence to get there.  

[Mongo3451]

2 hours ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

You cannot become good or elite without a good line to give you time, good play calling, and good routes and hands.  You will never gain the experience or confidence to get there.  

Amen.  Never underestimate how much play action means to Trubisky.  Everything starts there.