Remaking the bears 2021

[adam]

5 hours ago, 50england50 said:

Pace has made some mistakes but I felt when we resigned Fuller it was a need which I was happy with. I think he earned his contract and is one of the few successful 1st round picks we have had. 
 

Signing Mack was something I was ecstatic about at the time and definitely after the Green Bay game. In hindsight I think we over paid. Again is there anyone who argued with Pace when Mack was signed. 
 

I can see the reasoning for signing Quinn because Floyd wasn’t getting it done. Probably was wrong because of the financial implications of Covid and the projected cap reduction. 
 

Has the NFL made an announcement that the cap will reduce this year. I think that will be harsh because the pandemic was something no one could predict and if the teams are forced to get under the cap ultimately the product will suffer. 
 

In July the NFLPA agreed to a floor of $175M and the expectation is that it will end up very close to that floor. It was $198M this year, so a $23M drop + the loss of the normal annual growth and you are looking at anywhere from $25-$30M less than what most GM's had projected. 

[Mongo3451]

6 hours ago, 50england50 said:

Has the NFL made an announcement that the cap will reduce this year. I think that will be harsh because the pandemic was something no one could predict and if the teams are forced to get under the cap ultimately the product will suffer. 

I heard, without reference, that they are looking at some type of ratio type of uncapped season so teams can figure it out.  It's nothing that anyone expected.

[ParkerBear7]

I'd be okay with keeping Pace and still 50/50 on Nagy.  They are both relatively young and seem to be learning from past mistakes. With that said the true test will be how they try and rebuild this team via draft. Will they be disciples enough to finally invest draft capital in the OL early this year as it is a deep draft for lineman?  

Here is a path to a successful 2021 draft.

 

[jason]

1. Fire Pace and Nagy. Bring in someone old-school who values team-building via the trenches, who likes play-action passes, who loathes RPOs, and who wants perfect simplicity over imperfect, 30-page playbooks full of inconsistent fancy shit.

2. Move Whitehair back to Center where he belongs.

3. Draft OL-heavy (Serious about the picks):

• Round 1: For the love of God, trade down and accumulate picks.
• Round 2: Alex Leatherwood, OT, Alabama
• Round 2: Deonte Brown, G, Alabama
• Round 3: Warren Jackson, WR, Colorado State - Randy Moss vibes
• Round 4: Mac Jones, QB, Alabama
• Round 4: BPA D
• Round 5: OG (I wouldn't mind Tommy Kraemer, G, Notre Dame)
• Round 6: BPA D

Starting OL (Yes, I'm serious about the picks): 

• LT - Alex Leatherwood
• LG - Deonte Brown 
• C - Cody Whitehair
• RG - Whoever wins
• RT - Germain Ifedi

That should be a damn good start to things. 

[Mongo3451]

36 minutes ago, jason said:

1. Fire Pace and Nagy. Bring in someone old-school who values team-building via the trenches, who likes play-action passes, who loathes RPOs, and who wants perfect simplicity over imperfect, 30-page playbooks full of inconsistent fancy shit.

John Fox.  Oh wait...

[Bill]

1 hour ago, jason said:

1. Fire Pace and Nagy. Bring in someone old-school who values team-building via the trenches, who likes play-action passes, who loathes RPOs, and who wants perfect simplicity over imperfect, 30-page playbooks full of inconsistent fancy shit.

2. Move Whitehair back to Center where he belongs.

3. Draft OL-heavy (Serious about the picks):

• Round 1: For the love of God, trade down and accumulate picks.
• Round 2: Alex Leatherwood, OT, Alabama
• Round 2: Deonte Brown, G, Alabama
• Round 3: Warren Jackson, WR, Colorado State - Randy Moss vibes
• Round 4: Mac Jones, QB, Alabama
• Round 4: BPA D
• Round 5: OG (I wouldn't mind Tommy Kraemer, G, Notre Dame)
• Round 6: BPA D

Starting OL (Yes, I'm serious about the picks): 

• LT - Alex Leatherwood
• LG - Deonte Brown 
• C - Cody Whitehair
• RG - Whoever wins
• RT - Germain Ifedi

That should be a damn good start to things. 

I must of missed some of your posts.   Seems like a long time since I have read one.  Always agreed with draft OL,OL.  Before anything else.  Don't know about the old school stuff.  Time to move on.

[BearFan PHX]

Not saying I WANT this to happen, but there is some chance I suppose that the Bears could fire Nagy, and move Lazor up to HC, and possibly replace Pagano.

With the cap shrinking and all the money tied up, it's hard to think you'd get a top notch GM or HC interested in coming in next year. The year after, sure.

What if they dumped Nagy, and signed Trubisky cheap and moved Lazor to HC?

Im not saying this is a GOOD idea, Im saying it is an idea they might be considering.

[Mongo3451]

13 minutes ago, BearFan NYC said:

With the cap shrinking and all the money tied up, it's hard to think you'd get a top notch GM or HC interested in coming in next year. The year after, sure.

Chicago is a flagship franchise.  If Ted Phillips gets replaced by a football guy, we get the cream of the crop.  The cupboard is not bare.

[Stinger226]

14 hours ago, jason said:

1. Fire Pace and Nagy. Bring in someone old-school who values team-building via the trenches, who likes play-action passes, who loathes RPOs, and who wants perfect simplicity over imperfect, 30-page playbooks full of inconsistent fancy shit.

2. Move Whitehair back to Center where he belongs.

3. Draft OL-heavy (Serious about the picks):

• Round 1: For the love of God, trade down and accumulate picks.
• Round 2: Alex Leatherwood, OT, Alabama
• Round 2: Deonte Brown, G, Alabama
• Round 3: Warren Jackson, WR, Colorado State - Randy Moss vibes
• Round 4: Mac Jones, QB, Alabama
• Round 4: BPA D
• Round 5: OG (I wouldn't mind Tommy Kraemer, G, Notre Dame)
• Round 6: BPA D

Starting OL (Yes, I'm serious about the picks): 

• LT - Alex Leatherwood
• LG - Deonte Brown 
• C - Cody Whitehair
• RG - Whoever wins
• RT - Germain Ifedi

That should be a damn good start to things. 

That would be a good draft but no way Jones lasts until the 4th round, 2nd round player, only because to many teams need QBs, they all move up. I have seen drafts where 4 go in the top of the draft and the next 2 are gone by the middle of the second round.

[Stinger226]

14 hours ago, jason said:

1. Fire Pace and Nagy. Bring in someone old-school who values team-building via the trenches, who likes play-action passes, who loathes RPOs, and who wants perfect simplicity over imperfect, 30-page playbooks full of inconsistent fancy shit.

2. Move Whitehair back to Center where he belongs.

3. Draft OL-heavy (Serious about the picks):

• Round 1: For the love of God, trade down and accumulate picks.
• Round 2: Alex Leatherwood, OT, Alabama
• Round 2: Deonte Brown, G, Alabama
• Round 3: Warren Jackson, WR, Colorado State - Randy Moss vibes
• Round 4: Mac Jones, QB, Alabama
• Round 4: BPA D
• Round 5: OG (I wouldn't mind Tommy Kraemer, G, Notre Dame)
• Round 6: BPA D

Starting OL (Yes, I'm serious about the picks): 

• LT - Alex Leatherwood
• LG - Deonte Brown 
• C - Cody Whitehair
• RG - Whoever wins
• RT - Germain Ifedi

That should be a damn good start to things. 

So did Daniels die in your scenario? He was actually playing the best of the OL before he got hurt. (not my opinion) The OL should be  draft pick-Whitehair-Daniels-?-draft pick. I dont think Ifedi has played very well, think Massie would have been better. Maybe Bars at RG? He has faired well since starting. I would prefer 2 new tackles and fill in the interior with what we have. 

[adam]

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

So did Daniels die in your scenario? He was actually playing the best of the OL before he got hurt. (not my opinion) The OL should be  draft pick-Whitehair-Daniels-?-draft pick. I dont think Ifedi has played very well, think Massie would have been better. Maybe Bars at RG? He has faired well since starting. I would prefer 2 new tackles and fill in the interior with what we have. 

Mustipher has actually looked pretty solid at Center as well. I think between Whitehair, Daniels, and Mustipher we are actually decent inside. We just need a lot of help on the outside. 

[McGowan]

52 minutes ago, adam said:

Mustipher has actually looked pretty solid at Center as well. I think between Whitehair, Daniels, and Mustipher we are actually decent inside. We just need a lot of help on the outside. 

I agree here. The Bears are good at IOL, with Mustipher at C and Whitehair and Daniels at G. They need help at T. (lots) 

[Connorbear]

19 hours ago, jason said:

1. Fire Pace and Nagy. Bring in someone old-school who values team-building via the trenches, who likes play-action passes, who loathes RPOs, and who wants perfect simplicity over imperfect, 30-page playbooks full of inconsistent fancy shit.

2. Move Whitehair back to Center where he belongs.

3. Draft OL-heavy (Serious about the picks):

• Round 1: For the love of God, trade down and accumulate picks.
• Round 2: Alex Leatherwood, OT, Alabama
• Round 2: Deonte Brown, G, Alabama
• Round 3: Warren Jackson, WR, Colorado State - Randy Moss vibes
• Round 4: Mac Jones, QB, Alabama
• Round 4: BPA D
• Round 5: OG (I wouldn't mind Tommy Kraemer, G, Notre Dame)
• Round 6: BPA D

Starting OL (Yes, I'm serious about the picks): 

• LT - Alex Leatherwood
• LG - Deonte Brown 
• C - Cody Whitehair
• RG - Whoever wins
• RT - Germain Ifedi

That should be a damn good start to things. 

Good to see you back, Jason. I'm going to disagree on o-line and so would Olin Kreutz. Kreutz sees Mustiphar as a starting center in the league. Further, Whitehair looks much better at LG than center. Also, you are missing Daniels, who was our best offensive lineman before he got hurt. I see Whitehair-Mustiphar-Daniels in the interior and drafting two OTs. 

Peace

[Alaskan Grizzly]

1 hour ago, Connorbear said:

Good to see you back, Jason. I'm going to disagree on o-line and so would Olin Kreutz. Kreutz sees Mustiphar as a starting center in the league. Further, Whitehair looks much better at LG than center. Also, you are missing Daniels, who was our best offensive lineman before he got hurt. I see Whitehair-Mustiphar-Daniels in the interior and drafting two OTs. 

Peace

Jason did mention Ifedi at Tackle, himself a former 1st round pick and at least during the game against the Texans didn’t look all that bad in that role. And where does Bars figure in all this? Or does he?  
 

One thing Jason and I have gone back and forth on over the years is the importance of drafting Oline players.  I won’t re-hash that now.  But will say I really like the Alabama heavy draft choices he suggests.  I think he and I and most anyone else will agree that of all the D1 teams, Alabama is near the top in consistently having NFL ready players. 

[BearFan PHX]

Whatever else we do, we absolutely need an OLT and to get Leno away from this team. I have said for over a year now that he is the main reason for this team's failure, and I still believe that.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

25 minutes ago, BearFan NYC said:

Whatever else we do, we absolutely need an OLT and to get Leno away from this team. I have said for over a year now that he is the main reason for this team's failure, and I still believe that.

This is the first I’d heard you ever mention it.   ?

When I messed with Jason about this subject before I’d remind him somewhere out the J’Marus Webb is waiting to prove himself. Did you know that in 2016 he scored a 2 year deal with Seattle worth $5.75 million?  *wikipedia. ?

[Mongo3451]

41 minutes ago, BearFan NYC said:

Whatever else we do, we absolutely need an OLT and to get Leno away from this team. I have said for over a year now that he is the main reason for this team's failure, and I still believe that.

I would actually argue that he has been better than the other tackles on the team.  He looked ok until Daniels got hurt, then instantly got better when Whitehair moved next door.  The multiple weeks of the Rashad Coward debacle really hurt.  Does he need upgraded?  Absolutely.  If he takes a pay cut, I can see him on the team next season.  Maybe even starting a couple games, while the rookie learns the ropes.

[BearFan PHX]

1 minute ago, Mongo3451 said:

I would actually argue that he has been better than the other tackles on the team.  He looked ok until Daniels got hurt, then instantly got better when Whitehair moved next door.  The multiple weeks of the Rashad Coward debacle really hurt.  Does he need upgraded?  Absolutely.  If he takes a pay cut, I can see him on the team next season.  Maybe even starting a couple games, while the rookie learns the ropes.

I see him missing assignments constantly. I think he should be out of the NFL.

[Mongo3451]

23 hours ago, jason said:

Starting OL (Yes, I'm serious about the picks): 

• LT - Alex Leatherwood
• LG - Deonte Brown 
• C - Cody Whitehair
• RG - Whoever wins
• RT - Germain Ifedi

My OL would be

LT - Christian Varishaw, Va Tech

LG - James Daniels

C - Sam Mustipher

RG - Cody Whitehair

RT - Jalen Mayfield, Michigan

With our first and second picks, we get two of the top 5 OT's in the draft.  Get our best lineman back at 23 years old.  Move Whitehair to RG where he is a vast improvement and mentor to our new RT.  Another year of Mustipher will bring him added strength.  Bring back Bars, Ifedi, Hambright and Spriggs as backups.  If Leno is willing to take a pay cut, I'm willing to keep him around as well.

 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

4 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

My OL would be

LT - Christian Varishaw, Va Tech

LG - James Daniels

C - Sam Mustipher

RG - Cody Whitehair

RT - Jalen Mayfield, Michigan

With our first and second picks, we get two of the top 5 OT's in the draft.  Get our best lineman back at 23 years old.  Move Whitehair to RG where he is a vast improvement and mentor to our new RT.  Another year of Mustipher will bring him added strength.  Bring back Bars, Ifedi, Hambright and Spriggs as backups.  If Leno is willing to take a pay cut, I'm willing to keep him around as well.

 

I could go back to back. Seems like a solid OT draft this year too. Too bad we are at that option. 

[Mongo3451]

8 hours ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

I could go back to back. Seems like a solid OT draft this year too. Too bad we are at that option. 

We would, but they won't, lol.  Still need weapons and pass rush.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

4 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

We would, but they won't, lol.  Still need weapons and pass rush.

Now that it is a need, they better not end up with Chris Williams and Gabe Carimi 2.0.  

I hope they mix in a DT in the first 3 rounds too.  The drop off after losing Hicks is huge and Goldmans absence was noticed too. I thought Bilal Nichols would become that Hicks clone, he is nice rotation but not a force.  A 2nd or 3rd RD DT could help the pass rush.

[Stinger226]

18 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

My OL would be

LT - Christian Varishaw, Va Tech

LG - James Daniels

C - Sam Mustipher

RG - Cody Whitehair

RT - Jalen Mayfield, Michigan

With our first and second picks, we get two of the top 5 OT's in the draft.  Get our best lineman back at 23 years old.  Move Whitehair to RG where he is a vast improvement and mentor to our new RT.  Another year of Mustipher will bring him added strength.  Bring back Bars, Ifedi, Hambright and Spriggs as backups.  If Leno is willing to take a pay cut, I'm willing to keep him around as well.

 

This is probably the best case scenario with the assets we have to draft 2 OTs. I would say draft a OT in the first round, QB in second and a RT in the 3rd. Cutting Leno and Massie save us 11.6 mil in cap space. That give us a young OL to hopefully keep together for a long time. Whitehair has a contract thru 2024. We should forget Coward, (sucks) , keep Ifedi with backup money and Bars comes cheap. QBs that may be there in the second are Trask and Mac Jones. That could change thou. GBND report has the top 6 QBs listed in the top 12 which is more because of the potential draft needs of so many teams. They have as part of their top 100 (J T Daniels-23, Desmond Ridder-91, and Jamie Newman-98. If any of them are good prospects then maybe 2 OTs in first two rounds and a QB in the third.

I think if we finish 8-8 or above, Pace and Nagy stay, no my wish  but just being realistic. After losing money this year, dont see them making radical moves even thou that should.

[Stinger226]

44 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

Now that it is a need, they better not end up with Chris Williams and Gabe Carimi 2.0.  

I hope they mix in a DT in the first 3 rounds too.  The drop off after losing Hicks is huge and Goldmans absence was noticed too. I thought Bilal Nichols would become that Hicks clone, he is nice rotation but not a force.  A 2nd or 3rd RD DT could help the pass rush.

I think the possibility of cutting Hicks exists because it saves us 11.5 in cap space. With 20 mil being chopped off of the cap next year, some good players have to go. I think with Goldman coming back, Nichols taking Hicks spot and resigning Urban, McCullens, and RRH we can be okay there. I think with RRH  being hurt he  will not be getting a big contract anywhere. Dont get me wrong we see what happens with Hicks not playing but he only has one year left on his contract, takes the least dead money hit of all the good players,  and will be a year older, 32. Bring in another low draft pick, something Pace seems good at.

[adam]

43 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

I think the possibility of cutting Hicks exists because it saves us 11.5 in cap space. With 20 mil being chopped off of the cap next year, some good players have to go. I think with Goldman coming back, Nichols taking Hicks spot and resigning Urban, McCullens, and RRH we can be okay there. I think with RRH  being hurt he  will not be getting a big contract anywhere. Dont get me wrong we see what happens with Hicks not playing but he only has one year left on his contract, takes the least dead money hit of all the good players,  and will be a year older, 32. Bring in another low draft pick, something Pace seems good at.

I think they would restructure or extend before they cut Hicks. He is too important on the defense. Games are won in the trenches. He is easily one of the 3 most important players on the defense with Mack and Smith. Everyone else is expendable or replaceable. 

If you go with Goldman, Nichols, Urban, McCullens, RRH w/o Hicks, you are nowhere near the same level of production as you have with him. So you do save $10M but lose production that far exceeds that price tag. 

I would seriously consider trading Fuller and Jackson while they have value. Neither are playing at their contract level.

To me the easiest savings are to cut Skrine, Leno, Massie, and Graham. Just by cutting those 4, you save $20M. That gets you under the cap with basically the same team with the rookie pool but without ARob and Trubisky. You have to restructure Mack and get his cap down $8-10M, if you can't move Fuller, you do the same with him. The cap should rebound the following year, so it will be easier to take on the bigger parts of those deals. It looks like you can safely restructure Mack and Fuller and save another $16M. That would give the new GM about $25M for 13 players to fill out the 53-man roster. If you figure 8-9 of those are vet minimum deals, you are looking at 4-5 other players with $16-17M to use. 

Another guy I would consider trading is Miller, he would save $1.7M if traded. It's not much, but there is almost no point paying him and guys like Ridley and Wims.