Is this Trubisky different?

[Mongo3451]

1 hour ago, Bill said:

 Run with Foles for the next year or two and rebuild thru the draft.

Hell no.  Hell no.  Hell f'n no!  ?

[Alaskan Grizzly]

14 hours ago, Bill said:

Kicking the can down the road for Trubisky or any of the high priced free agents will just keep us where we are. 

You need at the very least a transitional QB.  One that is familiar with the system.  Especially if you’re looking at drafting a new QB.  As much as I like the guy I don’t think Foles is the best option. (Money and contract-wise with the Bears cap he is but that’s it).  With his many faults Trubiksy has shown measured progress even if it means limiting the offense to work for him.  He also brings the dimension as a mobile QB (which he’s pretty good at) that Foles definitely does not.  Even if they lose Sunday I don’t think both Pace and Nagy are gone. And if that be the case the best option at QB is Trubiksy and a newly drafted QB.  IMHO

[BearFan PHX]

It's hard to say. Trubisky has only performed well for a couple of weeks against inferior teams. We talk about rolling him out so he only has to read half the field etc. If that's so, then he's not the right guy to model the system to the rookie. We won't even be running the system.

And speaking of such things, if Nagy is gone, why keep OR draft another QB for that system? I think that decision needs to belong to the new GM / Coach. If Trubisky is the best option of all the low priced interim QBs available in the opinion of the new GM, then so be it, but I doubt it.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

1 hour ago, BearFan NYC said:

 

It's hard to say. Trubisky has only performed well for a couple of weeks against inferior teams. We talk about rolling him out so he only has to read half the field etc. If that's so, then he's not the right guy to model the system to the rookie. We won't even be running the system.

 

I suppose when I say ‘system’ I don’t necessarily mean Nagys adaptation of it.  What Nagy does is his own twist of what Andy Reid does in KC and Doug Pedersen does in Philly.  I was watching Buffalo play this last week and noticed a lot of the plays Josh Allen was doing resembled a lot of what we’ve seen Mitch do more recently.  Especially in the rollouts and Play Action.  I think Lazor has tweaked “Nagys” system to work better for Trubiksy.  Brian Daboll who is the the OC in Buffalo is similar to Lazor in that he’s been around the league with various organizations and has taken elements of other systems he’s been a part of to make what works for his QB (Allen).  With Daboll it’s been successful and so far with Lazor and Trubisky as well.  

[BearFan PHX]

43 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

I suppose when I say ‘system’ I don’t necessarily mean Nagys adaptation of it.  What Nagy does is his own twist of what Andy Reid does in KC and Doug Pedersen does in Philly.  I was watching Buffalo play this last week and noticed a lot of the plays Josh Allen was doing resembled a lot of what we’ve seen Mitch do more recently.  Especially in the rollouts and Play Action.  I think Lazor has tweaked “Nagys” system to work better for Trubiksy.  Brian Daboll who is the the OC in Buffalo is similar to Lazor in that he’s been around the league with various organizations and has taken elements of other systems he’s been a part of to make what works for his QB (Allen).  With Daboll it’s been successful and so far with Lazor and Trubisky as well.  

I hear you, and I agree, but the implication is that they can't do as much because they have to cater to Trubisky. KC doesn't play Mahomes this way for example. I just don't thionk Trubisky is any better or more valuable than a bunch of other 2nd tier free agents that will be available. If (when) we have a new coaching staff, they will want a QB with a skill set that matches what they want to do.

So, I don't give Trubisky any extra points for anything, in terms of his value as a player.

As a person I like him. He seems very young, but he seems authentic and like a good person. I guess even if he does bomb out of the NFL he has like $20 Million in his pocket, so it's not SO bad.

And if for some reason whoever the GM is decides that Trubisky is the best option out there for the $ to be ain interim guy while a draft picks learns until week 8, then fine. I like the guy. But he is not the future in any way shape or form, and we need to looking to do something major about that.

And Nagy too, in my opinion. If you love Pace, we can keep him, but he's probably gone too, and it's probably for the best.

And the worst case scenario is that this all happens after next year. ANd even worse if Pace drafts a QB #1, and he doesnt work out. Thats why if youre gonna change, and we really should, now's the time.

[BearFan PHX]

I should add, everything i wrote is all about the offseason and next year - they should do whatever they can to win right now, and i will be rooting for Mitch and Nagy and all of them of course.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

21 hours ago, BearFan NYC said:

And Nagy too, in my opinion. If you love Pace, we can keep him, but he's probably gone too, and it's probably for the best.

I’m done with Pace more than Nagy.  I’ve seen (or ‘not seen’ is more appropriate) enough that I don’t trust him as the GM.  Not all that thrilled with Nagy either BUT his finally changing to get the offense to work with Lazor taking over was a good sign.  And despite what we may all think has still managed to get the team this far and on the edge of playing in the playoffs.  What that means after Sunday still remains to be seen.  

[BearFan PHX]

39 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

I’m done with Pace more than Nagy.  I’ve seen (or ‘not seen’ is more appropriate) enough that I don’t trust him as the GM.  Not all that thrilled with Nagy either BUT his finally changing to get the offense to work with Lazor taking over was a good sign.  And despite what we may all think has still managed to get the team this far and on the edge of playing in the playoffs.  What that means after Sunday still remains to be seen.  

I wont quarrel if you want to get rid of Pace - it's ALL good.

But let's not be so enamored of mediocrity just because it's such an improvement over really bad. Weve gotten used to such crap that we're thinking we have more than we do in Nagy and Trubisky because we beat the Lions? LOL

[Bertva]

Interesting Article I had not heard about...

https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-bears/an-overlooked-matt-nagy-decision-helped-fuel-trubisky-turnaround/?fbclid=IwAR04bDGGJf96u_N4VkeRmfO0ukkb2Xzseo16pJcjk07ag8AlgLqKPLVRPn4

[BearFan PHX]

that IS interesting. and if it's true it's a huge indictment of what Nagy and Lazor couldnt get out of Trubisky. Of course, i still think it's mostly because we have played bad teams, but if the Bears go out and kick Green Bay's ass on offense that will be a different story.

I will say this, for all the blame that is to go around, I havent seen any direct reason to blame DeFilipo individually for sure.

[Bill]

Bears fans: choose your own adventure. Do you want to beat the Green Bay Packers, lose on wild-card weekend and then re-sign Mitch Trubisky on a starter-sized deal? Do you want to lose narrowly to the Packers, re-sign Trubisky on a purgatory sort of contract and reconvene in a year’s time to clean house? Do you want the Bears to be blown out by their biggest rivals on national television, solely because it appears to be the only way to guarantee actual change at Halas Hall? Or any combination of the above?

Ed Malyo.   The Athletic

Could not say it better.

 

 

[Stinger226]

Next year the cap gets lowered by 20 mil that puts us in the hole 2 mil. Only a handful of teams will have the money to accept high paid players added to their roster. I doubt anyone offers MT a starting job. Look at Jamis Winston for an example. If we win and make the playoffs and play a competitive game in the playoffs is the best we can hope for. The few spot difference winning will not matter as far as getting a QB in the draft. The Bears have owners that do not have other outside sources of income, just the team. It will affect their decision. They will look at all the pluses  and minuses that Pace has had. The last 3 years with a coach (he choose) they will be 28-22 at the worst. Not a losing season for 3 years. In the realm of the NFL, its very average but in our history, it carries a little weight. If they have to pay a new GM money plus what Pace has on the books , that would be a bad financial decision. Constantly rotating new regimes every 5 years hasnt looked like that is working. They will choose to stay stable for one more year and give Pace one more chance to add a better situation at QB.  They will blame the pandemic for a screwed up year. Foles has demonstrated he is just a backup, he is not an answer. MT may not be either but it will be all we may have. Taking a 3rd round graded QB with our first pick will not make us better unless they get very lucky. It cost 10.5 to get rid of Foles if you choose to bring MT back and add a high pick average QB. We are in QB hell. We are stuck in limbo for one more year. If Nagy plays to MTs strengths we can have a winning season next season but may not have a future QB again. Sometime things just never change.

[tshanno]

On 12/31/2020 at 5:23 PM, Alaskan Grizzly said:

I suppose when I say ‘system’ I don’t necessarily mean Nagys adaptation of it.  What Nagy does is his own twist of what Andy Reid does in KC and Doug Pedersen does in Philly.  I was watching Buffalo play this last week and noticed a lot of the plays Josh Allen was doing resembled a lot of what we’ve seen Mitch do more recently.  Especially in the rollouts and Play Action.  I think Lazor has tweaked “Nagys” system to work better for Trubiksy.  Brian Daboll who is the the OC in Buffalo is similar to Lazor in that he’s been around the league with various organizations and has taken elements of other systems he’s been a part of to make what works for his QB (Allen).  With Daboll it’s been successful and so far with Lazor and Trubisky as well.  

This is just a guess but I'd say they've done more than tweek it.  I think they've crippled it.  

NFL offenses are a game of chess.  You do one thing, the defense takes it away.  You do something else, they take that away, etc...  Eventually you settle at a point where both teams think that there's a competitive match up, or as close to it as they're going to get.

I think Nagy likes the KC offense because it has an answer for everything.  But in order for you to have an answer for everything, you have to have the personnel.  Especially the QB.  They've had to put Trubisky on the run, cut the field in half and limit his decisions so much that I don't know how much of that offense is left.

What's worse, my fear is that Trubisky is so limited that by the time the offense and the opposingNFL defenses settle in place with their adjustments, the Bears won't have a chance.  If the Packers can make the Bears throw, keep Trubisky in the pocket and just "make Mitch play quarterback", they probably win.  As will any other decent defense.

That's just a guess, though.  I guess we're going to eventually find out.

Tom S.

[Mongo3451]

4 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

The Bears have owners that do not have other outside sources of income, just the team. It will affect their decision. They will look at all the pluses  and minuses that Pace has had. The last 3 years with a coach (he choose) they will be 28-22 at the worst. Not a losing season for 3 years. In the realm of the NFL, its very average but in our history, it carries a little weight.

This is what I said during the Lovie tenure.  Keep the stands full, sell jerseys, have a good locker room and be competitive.  That's the business model that Mikey and Teddy developed to keep the vault full.  It think times have changed lately, as Virginia wants to see a winner before she goes to the other side.  I don't think she will live long enough to see another GM build his team.  There's another reason Pace will stay.  It also may be the motivation that has driven his failure with the OL.  Who really knows...

[BearFan PHX]

5 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

Next year the cap gets lowered by 20 mil that puts us in the hole 2 mil. Only a handful of teams will have the money to accept high paid players added to their roster. I doubt anyone offers MT a starting job. Look at Jamis Winston for an example. If we win and make the playoffs and play a competitive game in the playoffs is the best we can hope for. The few spot difference winning will not matter as far as getting a QB in the draft. The Bears have owners that do not have other outside sources of income, just the team. It will affect their decision. They will look at all the pluses  and minuses that Pace has had. The last 3 years with a coach (he choose) they will be 28-22 at the worst. Not a losing season for 3 years. In the realm of the NFL, its very average but in our history, it carries a little weight. If they have to pay a new GM money plus what Pace has on the books , that would be a bad financial decision. Constantly rotating new regimes every 5 years hasnt looked like that is working. They will choose to stay stable for one more year and give Pace one more chance to add a better situation at QB.  They will blame the pandemic for a screwed up year. Foles has demonstrated he is just a backup, he is not an answer. MT may not be either but it will be all we may have. Taking a 3rd round graded QB with our first pick will not make us better unless they get very lucky. It cost 10.5 to get rid of Foles if you choose to bring MT back and add a high pick average QB. We are in QB hell. We are stuck in limbo for one more year. If Nagy plays to MTs strengths we can have a winning season next season but may not have a future QB again. Sometime things just never change.

Last year, you and i quarreled about Leno. You said theyd keep him, and i said theyd dump him. My argument was that he was terrible and anyone could see it, yours was that you agreed with me, but Bears management wouldnt do it. As you well know you won that bet.

Here we are again. Keepiung Pace and Nagy is a TERRIBLE idea - on the merits it should be easy to predict that the bears will fire them. They SHOULD. But your argument here is similar to last year - youre not saying Pace and Nagy deserve to be retained, or should be, youre saying the Bears will despite all that.

I have to listen this time I guess. I can only see what the smart or right thing to do is (in my opinion of course) you are making your point based on the ineptitude of the Bears to get any of this right.

I think i need to widen my scope

Sell the team you cretins.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

6 hours ago, tshanno said:

That's just a guess, though.  I guess we're going to eventually find out.

All very valid points you made. Not sure I agree with “crippling” the system as much as adapting it.  Using the KC offense as a mould and Andy Reid it’s architect; you could make a case that the way Donovan McNabb ran it while in Philly was considerably different than how Alex Smith did in KC before Mahomes came along and changed it again.  Each has(d) a different skill set that to some degree are/were able to successfully run the offense with the “tweaks” conjured by Andy and his respective OCs.  
 

I agree that ‘time will tell’ how this iteration turns out.  The biggest test being tomorrow.  

[Alaskan Grizzly]

17 hours ago, Bill said:

Could not say it better.

 

I’ll borrow the phrase I did a few weeks ago from Al Davis and say “just win baby”. The rest will settle itself out.  

[jason]

Defense jumps in the GB game and Trubisky checks down, like normal. He is almost incapable of throwing downfield, much less throwing accurately downfield.

[Stinger226]

On 1/2/2021 at 11:20 AM, BearFan NYC said:

Last year, you and i quarreled about Leno. You said theyd keep him, and i said theyd dump him. My argument was that he was terrible and anyone could see it, yours was that you agreed with me, but Bears management wouldnt do it. As you well know you won that bet.

Here we are again. Keepiung Pace and Nagy is a TERRIBLE idea - on the merits it should be easy to predict that the bears will fire them. They SHOULD. But your argument here is similar to last year - youre not saying Pace and Nagy deserve to be retained, or should be, youre saying the Bears will despite all that.

I have to listen this time I guess. I can only see what the smart or right thing to do is (in my opinion of course) you are making your point based on the ineptitude of the Bears to get any of this right.

I think i need to widen my scope

Sell the team you cretins.

I am with you, I think both should be gone, but it is like betting on a game, do you go with the logic,, or your heart when you make the bet. Reality says they aint leaving. I think if Pace gave Nagy the players he needs to make his system work, we may have a different view of his accomplishments. I think Pace gone and Nagy having one more year would be acceptable to me. I hate to say this but if they dont draft a LT in the first round, Leno may be here one more year. I would prefer Bars to shift to LT at worst. At least he would have some upside. Leno looks bad most games and just does enough good plays to make the team question about getting rid of him. PPF had him with the highest grade for LTs during the 3 game winning steak. I dont think PPF has much merit when you see that crap. The eyes dont lie. When I make a comment it is not always what I want but a prediction of what I think might happen.

[BearFan PHX]

2 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

I am with you, I think both should be gone, but it is like betting on a game, do you go with the logic,, or your heart when you make the bet. Reality says they aint leaving. I think if Pace gave Nagy the players he needs to make his system work, we may have a different view of his accomplishments. I think Pace gone and Nagy having one more year would be acceptable to me. I hate to say this but if they dont draft a LT in the first round, Leno may be here one more year. I would prefer Bars to shift to LT at worst. At least he would have some upside. Leno looks bad most games and just does enough good plays to make the team question about getting rid of him. PPF had him with the highest grade for LTs during the 3 game winning steak. I dont think PPF has much merit when you see that crap. The eyes dont lie. When I make a comment it is not always what I want but a prediction of what I think might happen.

yup Ive understood that the whole time, that you dont like Leno, just predicted theyd keep him. I think the basis of our disagreement, and my need to look deeper, is that i cant believe they are willing to suck. Or that they dont see how bad he is. Or that their goals are not necessarily to win games but to attract viewers, and so new names at WR might be sexier than an OL - or any number of similar foolish modes of thought. And yet this ownership - from greed, ego or ignorance (or all three) doesnt make the obvious moves necessary,

And I can put Leno specifically squarely on Pace.

Also PFF is the worst. Like you say, by the eye test.

Trubisky is really bad too. Int he first possession of the game, the offense was ready. They were blocking well, running hard, receivers getting open, and play calls in rhythm, winning the rock paper scissors game too. And yet on every play, Trubisky almost ruined it. He runs into Montgomery, he overthrows receivers. Wide open receivers make impressive and difficult catches rather than the ball being on the numbers. And later in the game, throwing into double and triple coverage week in and week out.

Maybe youre right, maybe Nagy would be good with a different QB, or with an OL or whatever. But none of them have done it for whatever reason and theyve not done it together as a team.

I don't see any reason not to try with all new faces - nothing of proven above average value in any of them.

And you're saying "Dude theyre gonna keep the band together one more year" and I cant say that youre wrong. But they sure are if they do.