jason Posted February 3, 2021 Report Share Posted February 3, 2021 Salt in the wound from Hub. Brings up some good points about questions nobody is asking, and all the more reason - other than the franchise-sacrificing trade - Watson to the Bears is a bad idea. https://www.shawlocal.com/bears/analysis/2021/02/03/hub-arkush-no-one-asking-the-only-question-that-matters-about-deshaun-watson-right-now/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASHKUM BEAR Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 2 hours ago, jason said: Salt in the wound from Hub. Brings up some good points about questions nobody is asking, and all the more reason - other than the franchise-sacrificing trade - Watson to the Bears is a bad idea. https://www.shawlocal.com/bears/analysis/2021/02/03/hub-arkush-no-one-asking-the-only-question-that-matters-about-deshaun-watson-right-now/ Pace is a genius. He knew Watson would pull something like this all along. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted February 4, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 48 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said: Pace is a genius. He knew Watson would pull something like this all along. ? it's possible that he feared it. But he should have taken Mahomes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASHKUM BEAR Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 40 minutes ago, BearFan NYC said: it's possible that he feared it. But he should have taken Mahomes. Knowing what we know know, yes. Looking back before the draft, Mahomes was just as much an unknown as Mitch. I may have said Mahomes comes from a professional athlete home, so he would know some ins and out to adjusting to pro life. That was one thing I liked about Mahomes. Mitch it was accuracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 2 hours ago, BearFan NYC said: it's possible that he feared it. But he should have taken Mahomes. At the time Watson made the most sense after tearing NCAA football a new ass. That made a lot more sense that Mitch. And it made a metric ton more sense than trading up for Mitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted February 4, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 I'm just saying that for some reason, Pace took Watson off of his list of candidates, and maybe he was right to do it. That said, Mahomes had college production and Trubisky didnt. I understand the risk they took and why, but I think it smells of thinking you can coach up an athlete, rather than take a player. It's a mistake we've made over and over through the years. I know these guys fall in love with measurables, but they played football right in front of your eyes, watch the tape. If you dont see them dominating, then youre hoping on something that hasnt happened yet. Yes there are breakout players that dont develop until after college, like Brady, but then again they took him with a 6th round pick. Not the 2nd pick overall in the draft. We now know there was a reason Trubisky didnt start until his senior year - the guy cannot read a defense. It doesnt matter how fast, strong, nice he is. He didnt put it on film, and that is not anything anyone should ever accept for a top 10 pick. If you have Watson off of the list for personal reasons, and Trubisky hasnt put it on tape, you take Mahomes who did put it on tape. Does that mean youd know what he was going to become? No. No one did of course. But he was a better bet at the time for sure, if you value seeing it on tape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABEARSDABOMB Posted February 4, 2021 Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 1 hour ago, BearFan NYC said: I'm just saying that for some reason, Pace took Watson off of his list of candidates, and maybe he was right to do it. That said, Mahomes had college production and Trubisky didnt. I understand the risk they took and why, but I think it smells of thinking you can coach up an athlete, rather than take a player. It's a mistake we've made over and over through the years. I know these guys fall in love with measurables, but they played football right in front of your eyes, watch the tape. If you dont see them dominating, then youre hoping on something that hasnt happened yet. Yes there are breakout players that dont develop until after college, like Brady, but then again they took him with a 6th round pick. Not the 2nd pick overall in the draft. We now know there was a reason Trubisky didnt start until his senior year - the guy cannot read a defense. It doesnt matter how fast, strong, nice he is. He didnt put it on film, and that is not anything anyone should ever accept for a top 10 pick. If you have Watson off of the list for personal reasons, and Trubisky hasnt put it on tape, you take Mahomes who did put it on tape. Does that mean youd know what he was going to become? No. No one did of course. But he was a better bet at the time for sure, if you value seeing it on tape. The "can't read a defense" comment on Trubisky. I don't really think there are very many examples in college football where you can really make an evaluation on a QB's ability to read a defense. In fact - I would say Watson had way more footage in college of poor decision making - which lets be clear - is exactly why, despite his record and overall resume, he wasn't the #1 overall selection in the draft. If he had shown better and quicker decision making in college - he would have been the runaway #1 overall pick (when you combine that with his pure athleticism, leadership intangibles, etc). Bottom line - very very few college QB's, especially the elite ones have to make a ton of tight window throws nor do they have to throw that many guys open. The reailty is - in college - you are flat out throwing to open wide receivers and with that it means the windows are wider. It is this exact reason why IT IS SO DIFFICULT to evaluate whether a college guy is going to translate into the NFL. You can evaluate accuracy - but even than - it is easier for a QB to be accurate when he has a big windows to hit his wide-out. When you need to throw a ball regularly to just this spot (away from a db and where only the WR can get it)...all of a sudden the margin shrinks, etc. Let alone fact that the QB has to make the quick read and decision to go there. I think the thing scouts are missing is - the QB's who have really stepped up next level - have been the guys who can make something out of nothing. When you think of Mahomes - his ability to make plays when things break down - that is what makes him special Deshaun Waston in some ways is the exact same - his ability to ad-lib - and turn nothing into a big play is huge. I actually don't know that either of them are any better at just running a run of the mill offense than Trubisky - but both of them are exceptional at making big plays and or buying a bit extra time so they or their weapons can make big plays. Herbert from Oregon looks to be the same way - that dude is firing bullets down field with a ton of precision - but he's doing it with accuracy and because his pure athleticism is enabling it. Quite frankly - I think the Bears thought Mitch would be that way - but after he had that big shoulder injury - he never showcased that playmaking skill again. If you go back a couple years ago - Mitch was lethal on the run, literally lethal. Even this year, when he ran effectively - the explosiveness and elusiveness was not there. He has always played tighter and with what looks like more fear/lack of aggression than he did before. Bottom line - the college game makes it really hard to evaluate a QB - which is why I think if you believe in a QB's tools - you should focus on his ability to make big plays with people around him and ultimately make the throws. That big play aspect seems to translate more closely to the NFL and than if the player can also read a d (decently) - you probably end up with at worse an above average starting QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted February 4, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2021 DBEARS, I agree with a lot of what you wrote above, but if a guy cant even make it as the starter in North Carolina until his senior year, I think youve got to consider that to put intangibles into context. Mahomes was a winner in college, and Trubisky wasnt. If Im taking a QB #2 overall, hes got to have won something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskan Grizzly Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 11 hours ago, BearFan NYC said: We now know there was a reason Trubisky didnt start until his senior year - the guy cannot read a defense. It doesnt matter how fast, strong, nice he is. He didnt put it on film, and that is not anything anyone should ever accept for a top 10 pick. He played back up to Marquise Williams while at NC. Who since leaving NC has been in the NFL, AAF and XFL. Need not say more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 We all can agree, he made a career ending bad choice, except he works for the Bears. All of these trade scenarios have odds of 1% any would work out unless Pace over pays. Something that would not be good for this team. The only think I would do is a 1st round for Carr that has two inexpensive years on his contract or trade for a Gardner Minshew making the minimum and probably be gotten for a 3rd at the worst. Try to sign Winston or just draft one and go with Foles until he's ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted February 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Stinger226 said: We all can agree, he made a career ending bad choice, except he works for the Bears. All of these trade scenarios have odds of 1% any would work out unless Pace over pays. Something that would not be good for this team. The only think I would do is a 1st round for Carr that has two inexpensive years on his contract or trade for a Gardner Minshew making the minimum and probably be gotten for a 3rd at the worst. Try to sign Winston or just draft one and go with Foles until he's ready. Drafting one and going with Foles until he is ready is the right move for the franchise. Sure we can argue about spending something (NOT draft picks) to get a different stopgap vet in here, but at the end of the day, drafting a rookie QB in the first round and getting him on the field by week 9 is whats best for this franchise. But it's not what's best for Nagy and Pace keeping their jobs. So the Bears ownership has set up a situation where the decisions makers have incentives to make decisions that arent best for the future of the Bears, even as they are about to be shown the door, but we will have to live with the fallout. This is a disaster, and if the Bears don't take a QB int he first round as a result, then Mikey boy should be fired too at a minimum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 23 hours ago, BearFan NYC said: DBEARS, I agree with a lot of what you wrote above, but if a guy cant even make it as the starter in North Carolina until his senior year, I think youve got to consider that to put intangibles into context. Mahomes was a winner in college, and Trubisky wasnt. If Im taking a QB #2 overall, hes got to have won something. 100% agree. I'll go one further. If you're going to draft someone #2, after trading up from #3, that guy not only should have won something, but he should have had several "HOLY S#!T" moments in college. To be honest, the red flags from Trubisky were glaring, and I can't really understand why so many were so enamored with him. I remember breaking this down somewhere on the board when he was being discussed, but the dude had a bad game every time he faced a decent team his senior year. 24/40, 156yds vs UGA 13/33, 58yds, 2INTs vs VT 23/39, 280yds, 2TDs, 2INTs vs Stanford I guess Pace must have loved when Trubisky was lighting up James Madison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted February 5, 2021 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 2 hours ago, jason said: 100% agree. I'll go one further. If you're going to draft someone #2, after trading up from #3, that guy not only should have won something, but he should have had several "HOLY S#!T" moments in college. To be honest, the red flags from Trubisky were glaring, and I can't really understand why so many were so enamored with him. I remember breaking this down somewhere on the board when he was being discussed, but the dude had a bad game every time he faced a decent team his senior year. 24/40, 156yds vs UGA 13/33, 58yds, 2INTs vs VT 23/39, 280yds, 2TDs, 2INTs vs Stanford I guess Pace must have loved when Trubisky was lighting up James Madison. I think it's the ego of measure-ables, and assuming that you can coach him up. Honestly this whole time it's felt like Nagy really wants to be the QB and not the head coach, and he was trying to make Trubisky's reads for him three days ahead of time. Maybe he HAS to because Trubisky can't read, maybe with some OL protection and a decent QB Nagy's system works. But just like Trubisky, I havent seen it yet, so why assume it until you see it? But this being unwilling to let go of the play calling feels like Nagy doesnt understand being a head coach. Both of them (Nagy and Pace) think they can find an edge. And they miss out on just making regular decisions instead. I cant believe we brought them back for another year. Let's just hope they don't do anything to our future draft pics. If McCaskey lets them do that, then he should be put in stockades in the public square. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted February 22, 2021 Report Share Posted February 22, 2021 Now BoJack in on this stuff: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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