WR Concern...

[Mongo3451]

Just rattling this off.  Robinson is likely too expensive.  Wims and Miller are idiots.  Mooney is typecast as a #2 but is a prototypical slot.  Ridley somehow has not developed.  So, in theory, we need to come up with a 1 and 2 WR.  How does this get accomplished?

[BearFan PHX]

3 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

Just rattling this off.  Robinson is likely too expensive.  Wims and Miller are idiots.  Mooney is typecast as a #2 but is a prototypical slot.  Ridley somehow has not developed.  So, in theory, we need to come up with a 1 and 2 WR.  How does this get accomplished?

the next GM is going to have major problems to fix, and i think we may need to give him a year to just burn with no expectations.

And youre right, WIms and Miller are idiots - also, the same player goads them each into a punch? What does that say about our coaching.

I wanna wake up tomorrow to hear that Pace is fired.

[Stinger226]

They wont be able to resign AROB even thou they will want to . To many holes to fill no cap money to pay 15-17 mil to WR. Wims and Miller need to be gone but with AROB leaving they will overlook their lameness and keep them. Ridley will get the chance to play regularly , who knows if it works out. We have one legit WR in Mooney but as you said a #2. I think the possibility that our first pick may be a WR with them knowing AROB is gone. I am no way wanting this to happen just think it might. So 

#1  WR

#2   QB

#3   OT

If one of the top 5 QBs are there , they would need to take him in the first round. LT needs to be the first round pick but I doubt they do that now. 

[adam]

9 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

Just rattling this off.  Robinson is likely too expensive.  Wims and Miller are idiots.  Mooney is typecast as a #2 but is a prototypical slot.  Ridley somehow has not developed.  So, in theory, we need to come up with a 1 and 2 WR.  How does this get accomplished?

Miller and Wims need to go. Robinson is gone. You are going to have to draft one early and bring in a couple of FAs. Here are some free agent WRs:

50+ receptions: JuJu, Samuel, Jones, Davis, Godwin, Hilton, Cole, Fuller, Reynolds, Patrick

40+ reception: Bourne, Agholor, Green, Byrd, Pascal, Conley

Patrick, Cole, and Reynolds should not command a ton of money but all were productive. All would be upgrades over Miller and a slight downgrade from ARob. However, if you can get one of these from each group, and draft one in the first few rounds, then you might actually have a better group than this year.

 

[BearFan2000]

50 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

They wont be able to resign AROB even thou they will want to . To many holes to fill no cap money to pay 15-17 mil to WR. Wims and Miller need to be gone but with AROB leaving they will overlook their lameness and keep them. Ridley will get the chance to play regularly , who knows if it works out. We have one legit WR in Mooney but as you said a #2. I think the possibility that our first pick may be a WR with them knowing AROB is gone. I am no way wanting this to happen just think it might. So 

#1  WR

#2   QB

#3   OT

If one of the top 5 QBs are there , they would need to take him in the first round. LT needs to be the first round pick but I doubt they do that now. 

Hard to say what the next GM will do if we do in fact have a different one.  We're accustomed to how Pace and previous GM's have approached the draft.  Here's hoping we get a new GM and that GM doesn't suffer from the same "smartest guy in the room" syndrome and can actually look at the draft objectively and actually utilize it to address needs.  But, like NYC said a new GM may need a year without expectations as he will have his work cut out for him, and it may take a season to see what a new coaching staff needs from a roster instruction standpoint.  I really we get this right, it gets tiring to blow everything up every 3-5 years and start over.   But reality is we aren't alone in the pattern there are many other teams that have the same problem.  We need to become one of those teams that has a good structure in place and are consistently good year to year.  I'm tired of watching my team peak ever few years or so and give you hope just to turn back into a pumpkin after midnight.  

[BearFan2000]

6 hours ago, BearFan NYC said:

the next GM is going to have major problems to fix, and i think we may need to give him a year to just burn with no expectations.

And youre right, WIms and Miller are idiots - also, the same player goads them each into a punch? What does that say about our coaching.

I wanna wake up tomorrow to hear that Pace is fired.

This also says something about the guy who's instigating it.   It's still dumb and inexcusable for Miller and Wims to react that way and shows lack of discipline.    Same thing happened to Kmet in the same game after the play their player was jawing at him and the ref assumed when Kmet was tossing the ball to the ref that Kmet was throwing it at that player and gives him a bogus personal foul.  I don't know if it was the same DB or not but.   There are players that like to egg you on and then act all innocent when the other guy reacts.  Again that doesn't excuse Miller and Wims.  both seem to be quick to lose their cool making them easy targets.

[Stinger226]

Kmet tossed the ball to the ref right behind the DB and they assumed his was throwing it at the DB. You really think a strong man like that what pussy toss the ball at a player he was angry with. He doesnt seem the type. 

[BearFan PHX]

2 hours ago, BearFan2000 said:

This also says something about the guy who's instigating it.   It's still dumb and inexcusable for Miller and Wims to react that way and shows lack of discipline.    Same thing happened to Kmet in the same game after the play their player was jawing at him and the ref assumed when Kmet was tossing the ball to the ref that Kmet was throwing it at that player and gives him a bogus personal foul.  I don't know if it was the same DB or not but.   There are players that like to egg you on and then act all innocent when the other guy reacts.  Again that doesn't excuse Miller and Wims.  both seem to be quick to lose their cool making them easy targets.

sure but after it happened the first time a GOOD coaching staff would have been talking about it in the week leading up to the game so the player is prepared to walk away. No matter WHAT he said.

[BearFan2000]

13 minutes ago, BearFan NYC said:

sure but after it happened the first time a GOOD coaching staff would have been talking about it in the week leading up to the game so the player is prepared to walk away. No matter WHAT he said.

Oh for sure. lack of discipline we've seen on this team whether it's players being regularly out of position or letting an opponent bait you into doing something stupid after the play. This all goes back to coaching and like you said a good coach would take that opportunity to make it a point of emphasis after the Wims incident (which he should have been cut for).  The coach has to make it clear to his players to play above this crap and that reacting this way will not be acceptable.  Some guys though like Miller and Wims seem to be hot heads and easily baited and thus need be let go.  They have hurt this team.  I get your passionate but you still have to play under control.  

[Connorbear]

24 minutes ago, BearFan NYC said:

sure but after it happened the first time a GOOD coaching staff would have been talking about it in the week leading up to the game so the player is prepared to walk away. No matter WHAT he said.

They took time out of practice this week to discuss what happened with Wims in the last game and Miller still lost his cool. Miller needs to be cut and Furrey needs to be fired today. 

Peace

[BearFan PHX]

8 minutes ago, Connorbear said:

They took time out of practice this week to discuss what happened with Wims in the last game and Miller still lost his cool. Miller needs to be cut and Furrey needs to be fired today. 

Peace

agree with all of that. Miller and Wims drop a lot of balls too - and it's the same issue - concentration, discipline.

I feel like we've been drafting based on upside, and not looking enough at production, which proves the intangible parts a 40 time doesn't reveal.

Also, MT had played only 13 games in college - drafted on potential. Nagy hadn't called plays in  KC until the last few games, and screwed them our of the playoffs by - wait for it - getting away from the run. Hired on potential.

Fire Pace. And let the new guy do what he thinks is right - and that will be to fire everyone else, and to choose people who have proven something somewhere.

[BearFan2000]

34 minutes ago, BearFan NYC said:

agree with all of that. Miller and Wims drop a lot of balls too - and it's the same issue - concentration, discipline.

I feel like we've been drafting based on upside, and not looking enough at production, which proves the intangible parts a 40 time doesn't reveal.

Also, MT had played only 13 games in college - drafted on potential. Nagy hadn't called plays in  KC until the last few games, and screwed them our of the playoffs by - wait for it - getting away from the run. Hired on potential.

Fire Pace. And let the new guy do what he thinks is right - and that will be to fire everyone else, and to choose people who have proven something somewhere.

hit the nail on the head.  We keep hiring and drafting on Potential.   We draft athletes, not players hoping they will become players.  We moved up in the second to draft Miller and he's been outshined by Moony who we took in the 5th round.  Wims was a 7th round throwaway pick.  It's part of the "smartest" man in the room syndrome.  We think we're being clever picking guys merely based on potential and measurables.  We get small school guys or guys who've not really proven anything of substance at college, but, hey they are athletes.  It's like we only see the possible good or we're just blinded by our vision of what they can become and ignore the actual resume.  

[jason]

On 1/10/2021 at 9:34 PM, Mongo3451 said:

Just rattling this off.  Robinson is likely too expensive.  Wims and Miller are idiots.  Mooney is typecast as a #2 but is a prototypical slot.  Ridley somehow has not developed.  So, in theory, we need to come up with a 1 and 2 WR.  How does this get accomplished?

Speaking strictly on WRs, it's the same answer as per usual: Draft capital. The Bears should 100% trade down in the draft because there are several needs. They should attempt to accumulate multiple picks and take flyers on some guys who will likely fall to the 3rd or 4th. Here are a few.

• Tamorrion Terry, WR, Florida State (6'4") - He's intriguing because he's going to get a bad rap from team and school, will likely drop some, but has potential to be a #1.
• Trevon Grimes, WR, Florida (6'5") - Interesting based upon explosion.
• Warren Stewart, WR, Colorado State (6'6") - Sat out for the year. Could slip as a result.

[Mongo3451]

2 hours ago, jason said:

Speaking strictly on WRs, it's the same answer as per usual: Draft capital. The Bears should 100% trade down in the draft because there are several needs.

You would have loved the thread where we were slamming Pace for trading two complete drafts away.

[jason]

2 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

You would have loved the thread where we were slamming Pace for trading two complete drafts away.

Yep. I HAAAAATE trading up. When the entire thing is a gamble, you have much more success with extra picks. It's like having a million powerball tickets versus having 1. Of course, I'm not talking about trading everything away for the entire 7th round (i.e. scratch offs), but in general the extra picks help.

[Stinger226]

Unfortunately I think Wims and Miller come back with the potential lose of AROB. I can see the Bears drafting a WR with the first pick or second pick. I would hate that, they need OL and QB way before a WR should come off the board. Maybe the genius can get us a starting LT-QB-WR with the first three picks that will start. 

[BearFan PHX]

11 hours ago, jason said:

Yep. I HAAAAATE trading up. When the entire thing is a gamble, you have much more success with extra picks. It's like having a million powerball tickets versus having 1. Of course, I'm not talking about trading everything away for the entire 7th round (i.e. scratch offs), but in general the extra picks help.

I think it depends on which area of the draft.

Top 10 picks are much more likely to result in pro bowlers than picks 11-20 for example. So the 5th pick overall will be more likely to find a pro bowler than an equivalent tradedown.

But between picks 20 and 50 for example? I think you're absolutely right. If you can find a partner that is willing to trade up, it's probably a great move.

And then you have to consider the people making the picks, because if they are horrible, then a top 10 pick is a lot less likely to yield a pro bowler.

[Mongo3451]

6 hours ago, BearFan NYC said:

I think it depends on which area of the draft.

Top 10 picks are much more likely to result in pro bowlers than picks 11-20 for example. So the 5th pick overall will be more likely to find a pro bowler than an equivalent tradedown.

But between picks 20 and 50 for example? I think you're absolutely right. If you can find a partner that is willing to trade up, it's probably a great move.

And then you have to consider the people making the picks, because if they are horrible, then a top 10 pick is a lot less likely to yield a pro bowler.

Before area of draft, you must consider team depth.  If you trade up it costs depth. If you need one guy and your guy is there, go get him.  If you are the Bears and have no depth, you just killed the team for another two years if you miss.  Conversely, you trade down and build depth so you can play next man up football.

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, Mongo3451 said:

Before area of draft, you must consider team depth.  If you trade up it costs depth. If you need one guy and your guy is there, go get him.  If you are the Bears and have no depth, you just killed the team for another two years if you miss.  Conversely, you trade down and build depth so you can play next man up football.

I agree. But you also need some superstars, so trading down out of a top ten pick isnt automatically a smart move, but I think after that, as you get past 15 etc, it's probably a general rule that trading down is a good thing, and the only thing that breaks it is a certain player falling that's a higher value than the current pick.

But if we are talking in general, with an average player for that pick at each draft position, trading down after the top 10- or 15 players is probably always a good idea.