Eight maybe available

[Bill]

So the jets traded for Darnold.  Is Bridgewater too expensive to keep now?.  And does that put eight into play?   If one of the top five is available at eight should the Bears offer Foles and picks for the pick?  Foles would be a good backup for Darnold who should be given the starting job.  Unless they are doing a total QB reset and see Darnold as a backup.  High price to pay though.

[adam]

Carolina just traded a 2nd, 4th, and 6th for Darnold when they had Bridgewater, wow. They got fleeced by the Jets. 

 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

1 hour ago, Bill said:

So the jets traded for Darnold.  Is Bridgewater too expensive to keep now?.  And does that put eight into play?   If one of the top five is available at eight should the Bears offer Foles and picks for the pick?  Foles would be a good backup for Darnold who should be given the starting job.  Unless they are doing a total QB reset and see Darnold as a backup.  High price to pay though.

 I would hate to waste future picks on the 5th best QB option.  If a top tier OT or CB is not available, trade down. Gain an extra 2nd or 3rd and fill: OT, CB, WR, and QB in the first 3 rds. 

[Stinger226]

We just need to make the team better, and draft a QB prospect later in the draft. 

[Mongo3451]

11 hours ago, adam said:

Carolina just traded a 2nd, 4th, and 6th for Darnold when they had Bridgewater, wow. They got fleeced by the Jets. 

 

I think they did ok.  Two of the picks are next year, plus he's very inexpensive.  I truly think he never had a chance in NY with the coaching changes and the players around him.

[adam]

2 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

I think they did ok.  Two of the picks are next year, plus he's very inexpensive.  I truly think he never had a chance in NY with the coaching changes and the players around him.

If he works out, it is totally worth it. However, Bridgewater was just signed as "The Guy" last year and has a $23M cap hit this year with $20M in dead money. 

If Dalton was that good, the Jets would not be moving on from him. So from the Panthers' perspective, how could they think he is better than Bridgewater? Just seems like the evaluations are off. Carolina thinks he is much better than he has performed, and the Jets view him as he has performed. So we will see.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

52 minutes ago, adam said:

If Dalton was that good, the Jets would not be moving on from him. 

Freudian slip?   Lol.

I was curious why the current staff would abandon Darnold without really evaluating him.  New HC Saleh is the former DC for San Fran and his new OC is Mike LeFleur (younger brother of Packers HC Matt).  Mike was quoted as saying with regards to a successful offense; “it all starts with the running game which opens up passing.”  
 

With Darnold’s departure that leaves James Morgan and Mike White in the QB room (who?). So having Darnold, the only one who probably has any actual game time, leave when you know they’re going to draft a QB in the top 5 rounds makes it that much more confounding.  

[BearFan PHX]

19 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Freudian slip?   Lol.

I was curious why the current staff would abandon Darnold without really evaluating him.  New HC Saleh is the former DC for San Fran and his new OC is Mike LeFleur (younger brother of Packers HC Matt).  Mike was quoted as saying with regards to a successful offense; “it all starts with the running game which opens up passing.”  
 

With Darnold’s departure that leaves James Morgan and Mike White in the QB room (who?). So having Darnold, the only one who probably has any actual game time, leave when you know they’re going to draft a QB in the top 5 rounds makes it that much more confounding.  

I think that it isnt so much a negative on Darnold as it is that they KNOW they want a QB @ #2, and that guy is going to be awesome. So why not get the picks now as you rebuild?

[Mongo3451]

2 hours ago, adam said:

If Dalton was that good, the Jets would not be moving on from him.

What have the Jets gotten right the last several years?  They interviewed Robbie Anderson this morning and he's happy to have Darnold back with him.  He even said it wasn't fair to Sam that the Jets didn't put anything around him.

[adam]

1 hour ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Freudian slip?   Lol.

I was curious why the current staff would abandon Darnold without really evaluating him.  New HC Saleh is the former DC for San Fran and his new OC is Mike LeFleur (younger brother of Packers HC Matt).  Mike was quoted as saying with regards to a successful offense; “it all starts with the running game which opens up passing.”  
 

With Darnold’s departure that leaves James Morgan and Mike White in the QB room (who?). So having Darnold, the only one who probably has any actual game time, leave when you know they’re going to draft a QB in the top 5 rounds makes it that much more confounding.  

Lol, autocorrect, because I type his name so much lately. Now that's funny.

I find it odd that they would let him go and almost forcing a rookie QB to start with an entirely new staff. To me that is very risky. 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

57 minutes ago, BearFan NYC said:

I think that it isnt so much a negative on Darnold as it is that they KNOW they want a QB @ #2, and that guy is going to be awesome. So why not get the picks now as you rebuild?

Not a negative on Darnold at all.  More a question for a new regime coming in with a (more or less) proven vet QB still available to have your #2 'can't miss future Franchise QB draftee" follow before being thrown to the wolves.  

At least Pace had the where-with-all to have Glennon available as an "experienced" veteran QB when he went all in on his 2nd round "cant miss future Franchise QB draftee".  

[Alaskan Grizzly]

1 minute ago, adam said:

I find it out that they would let him go and almost forcing a rookie QB to start with an entirely new staff. To me that is very risky. 

This exactly.  

[adam]

1 hour ago, BearFan NYC said:

I think that it isnt so much a negative on Darnold as it is that they KNOW they want a QB @ #2, and that guy is going to be awesome. So why not get the picks now as you rebuild?

There is no way to KNOW anything with 100% certainty. There are more misses in the top of the draft for QBs than hits. Darnold being one of them lol. In that draft alone, half of the QBs are busts at this point (Rosen and Darnold) with Allen being the hit and Mayfield trending that way. Look at Mariota and Winston, both top picks, both considered busts. Goff, Wentz?

Drafting a QB in the top 10 is actually a bad idea unless it is the first pick, and even then it doesn't work out all the time, Goff, Bradford, Russell. Look at picks 2-10 and look at some of the horrible QBs drafted. 

I am ok with what the Jets did, they got picks for a bust QB, take it and run, but you are sort of treading water if this is what you do every 3 years.

[adam]

45 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

What have the Jets gotten right the last several years?  They interviewed Robbie Anderson this morning and he's happy to have Darnold back with him.  He even said it wasn't fair to Sam that the Jets didn't put anything around him.

Darnold is only in year 4, it reminds me of drafting Rosen, then drafting Murray. That is a lot of lost draft capital that will eventually catch up to a team. You can't keep doing this and survive, basically trading the #3 pick for a 2nd, 4th, and a 6th every few years will leave you with a few good players but very few impact players. 

[adam]

18 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Not a negative on Darnold at all.  More a question for a new regime coming in with a (more or less) proven vet QB still available to have your #2 'can't miss future Franchise QB draftee" follow before being thrown to the wolves.  

At least Pace had the where-with-all to have Glennon available as an "experienced" veteran QB when he went all in on his 2nd round "cant miss future Franchise QB draftee".  

It's funny because I liked Pace's strategy, but his execution has been terrible. Bring in a reliable vet and draft a QB. If the young QB wins the job or is ready to start (Wilson vs Flynn), you make the transition. However, you never tank at any point because the vet is able to at least keep you somewhat competitive. You can also trade the vet if needed, and never have a massive cap hit until any QB becomes a star.

[Mongo3451]

52 minutes ago, adam said:

Darnold is only in year 4, it reminds me of drafting Rosen, then drafting Murray. That is a lot of lost draft capital that will eventually catch up to a team. You can't keep doing this and survive, basically trading the #3 pick for a 2nd, 4th, and a 6th every few years will leave you with a few good players but very few impact players. 

I just watched an interview with their GM.  He basically said they want a QB with a fresh start.  Said they owed it to Sam to get a deal done because he never had a truly fair shot.

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, adam said:

There is no way to KNOW anything with 100% certainty. There are more misses in the top of the draft for QBs than hits. Darnold being one of them lol. In that draft alone, half of the QBs are busts at this point (Rosen and Darnold) with Allen being the hit and Mayfield trending that way. Look at Mariota and Winston, both top picks, both considered busts. Goff, Wentz?

Drafting a QB in the top 10 is actually a bad idea unless it is the first pick, and even then it doesn't work out all the time, Goff, Bradford, Russell. Look at picks 2-10 and look at some of the horrible QBs drafted. 

I am ok with what the Jets did, they got picks for a bust QB, take it and run, but you are sort of treading water if this is what you do every 3 years.

ah yeah, mI dont mean they KNOW how any of the QBs will pan out. Im saying they KNOW they want to draft one, and give him the keys to the offense, so they KNOW Darnold is trade-able.

You are absolutely right that no one KNOWS if a QB will pan out. That's for sure.

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, adam said:

It's funny because I liked Pace's strategy, but his execution has been terrible. Bring in a reliable vet and draft a QB. If the young QB wins the job or is ready to start (Wilson vs Flynn), you make the transition. However, you never tank at any point because the vet is able to at least keep you somewhat competitive. You can also trade the vet if needed, and never have a massive cap hit until any QB becomes a star.

exactly. they just chose the wrong one(s).

[adam]

4 minutes ago, BearFan NYC said:

ah yeah, mI dont mean they KNOW how any of the QBs will pan out. Im saying they KNOW they want to draft one, and give him the keys to the offense, so they KNOW Darnold is trade-able.

You are absolutely right that no one KNOWS if a QB will pan out. That's for sure.

Oh lol, I was reading the entire sentence as "know they will draft a QB AND that guy is going to be awesome"

[Alaskan Grizzly]

15 minutes ago, BearFan NYC said:

exactly. they just chose the wrong one(s).

And did it again last year try and kick start Trubisky by bringing in Foles.  

[BearFan PHX]

11 minutes ago, adam said:

Oh lol, I was reading the entire sentence as "know they will draft a QB AND that guy is going to be awesome"

lol well i DID say that. So they might KNOW, but still be wrong

[BearFan2000]

58 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

I just watched an interview with their GM.  He basically said they want a QB with a fresh start.  Said they owed it to Sam to get a deal done because he never had a truly fair shot.

Was this the Jets GM or Carolina's?   Whoever said it brings up the good point to ask the question what chance did Darnold, have to succeed in the black hole that is the Jets?  Really what chance does a new #2 draft pick have.  Hard to evaluate a QB in the mess they have there.  I can see this as the Jets doing Darnold a solid in freeing him from NY, on some level I get wanting to start fresh with the new staff and a new #2 pick QB.  But your putting a lot of pressure on that rookie when your only other QBs are no-names.  

[DABEARSDABOMB]

20 hours ago, adam said:

Carolina just traded a 2nd, 4th, and 6th for Darnold when they had Bridgewater, wow. They got fleeced by the Jets. 

 

That can't possibly be correct. The Bears couldn't trade a 2nd next year + 4th/6th for a 7th overall pick.  No possible way.  And again - not for a 16th overall pick. If they could - Pace would have already done that.  There is something extremely wrong with that persons math/logic.  

Lets remember - a 2nd round pick a year from now is worth a 3rd.  The 4th round pick is also a next year pick - so that is worth a 5th. 

So basically the logic above says I could trade a 3rd, 5th, and 6th round pick for FRP?  No chance.  

[Bill]

In the last 20 years only 3-4 QB's taken in rounds after the first have won a Super Bowl.  Why keep trying to find a project in later rounds and not spend a little for someone in the first.  I am all for waiting till the 2nd but I see no path in waiting for the 4=5=6 and hope we find the next franchise QB.  Just does not seem to work.  Brad Johnson seems to be the last average QB to win a Super Bowl. but he had the number 1 defense or close to it.  Don't mortgage the future but even Trubisky did not break the bank.  Just the team.  It's not 85 anymore.

[Bill]

In other word,   if you don't take a shot, you'r never going to hit the bulls eye.  Plain and simple.   Would I have been ok with doing the same deal for Darnold?  Yes.  It's like having a monkey throwing shit to see it hits the wall and  it sticks.  More times than not , no.  But based on this teams history,  it's better than what than anything they have doing for the last 100 years.  They could of drafted 100 QB's in the last 100 years, and I believe they would  of  found one.

 

We didn't see value,  not fitting our scheme , nada, nada,   just throw the shit.