I Hope Nagy and Pace are Gone...

[Alaskan Grizzly]

In the category of “what could have been”:  FWIW Taylor Heinike continues to look good in relief duty for Washington.  A few of us discussed his impressive performance last year especially in the playoffs while playing relief duty for an injured Alex Smith.  There was some speculation about bringing him to Chicago and might have been a bette option than was Dalton, if for no other reason cost.  Hindsight being what it is and let’s say a player like Heinike was who the Bears got instead of Dalton but still drafted Fields how would things look today?  Would we have been able to keep Fuller and paid ARob?  Coulda, shoulda, didn’t. 

[Stinger226]

Hard to look back and speculate. There are so many mistakes Pace has made, you dont know where to start. I was happy to see Leno gone but hindsight would have been to axe Graham and keep Leno one more year. Not sure the love for Graham when people like Fuller had to go. We are in such a bad cap situation that someone had to go. Graham cut would only have saved one. Heinike was already in Wash, so trying to sign him would have been difficult. Wash gave him 4,4 mil over the next two yrs. Since we didnt know if we would get a good QB option in the draft had happened yet, doubt we would have got in a bidding war for such a small sample size on a QB prospect. 

[Mongo3451]

4 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

I was happy to see Leno gone but hindsight would have been to axe Graham and keep Leno one more year. Not sure the love for Graham when people like Fuller had to go. We are in such a bad cap situation that someone had to go. Graham cut would only have saved one.

I'm sorry, but as bad as Leno was, he was average.  And is still starting in the NFL.  Did I want an upgrade, absolutely.  Did I want him gone, no.  He would have been a great bridge for the new OT.  That's not hindsight, it's common sense.  8 million dollar starting OT vs 10 million dollar aging TE?  It's not even close.  Pace, in all his arrogance, again trades up for a guy that's a pure right tackle, then says he's a starting left tackle.  Based on what?  I'll tell you.  It's based on the fact that we did not have one damn left tackle on the entire roster.  He has to go.  He must for the future of our franchise.  I am also on record wanting to keep Trubisky until we got our guy.  If that happens, we have Kyle Fuller too.  Hindsight, looking at Pace really pisses me off.  Sorry for the rant.  I'm just done with Pace moreso than Nagy.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

7 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

I'm sorry, but as bad as Leno was, he was average.  And is still starting in the NFL.  Did I want an upgrade, absolutely.  Did I want him gone, no.  He would have been a great bridge for the new OT.  That's not hindsight, it's common sense.  8 million dollar starting OT vs 10 million dollar aging TE?  It's not even close. 

Yeah the arrogance of Pace probably overshadowed reality on this one.  Especially with OT. However, Jimmy was pretty productive last year (caught the most TD passes) and as you described for Tackle he’s a good bridge/mentor for Kmet.  Does the money factor come into play when you’re talking about keeping Fuller versus Graham? Yeah probably.  That’s a tough call especially now that we’re looking at a third stringer for left OT (Wilkerson was starting last week after Peters and Borom went down during the game).  Of course we’re aware of the issues with Jenkins.  For what it’s worth Leno still looked like the turnstile he’s infamous for from when he was with us.  He wasn’t nearly atrocious every play but during one drive for a TD I did see one play where he was on the wrong side of his defender (chasing him to the QB) and completely fell down on another.  Fortunately for Heinike he’s a bit more maneuverable (and younger) than Dalton.  I’d agree keeping Trubiksy at this point may have been the better option but at best he coulda been kept for the price of a franchise tag since his rookie deal was over(??). 

[Stinger226]

22 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

I'm sorry, but as bad as Leno was, he was average.  And is still starting in the NFL.  Did I want an upgrade, absolutely.  Did I want him gone, no.  He would have been a great bridge for the new OT.  That's not hindsight, it's common sense.  8 million dollar starting OT vs 10 million dollar aging TE?  It's not even close.  Pace, in all his arrogance, again trades up for a guy that's a pure right tackle, then says he's a starting left tackle.  Based on what?  I'll tell you.  It's based on the fact that we did not have one damn left tackle on the entire roster.  He has to go.  He must for the future of our franchise.  I am also on record wanting to keep Trubisky until we got our guy.  If that happens, we have Kyle Fuller too.  Hindsight, looking at Pace really pisses me off.  Sorry for the rant.  I'm just done with Pace moreso than Nagy.

Actually Graham signed a 2 yr 16 mil contract (8) a yr. He should only had a 2 yr 8 mil contract instead of 16. There was no competition to sign him. 

[Mongo3451]

40 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

Actually Graham signed a 2 yr 16 mil contract (8) a yr. He should only had a 2 yr 8 mil contract instead of 16. There was no competition to sign him. 

Thanks and agreed.  

[Bill]

On 9/17/2021 at 6:59 AM, Mongo3451 said:

I'm sorry, but as bad as Leno was, he was average.  And is still starting in the NFL.  Did I want an upgrade, absolutely.  Did I want him gone, no.  He would have been a great bridge for the new OT.  That's not hindsight, it's common sense.  8 million dollar starting OT vs 10 million dollar aging TE?  It's not even close.  Pace, in all his arrogance, again trades up for a guy that's a pure right tackle, then says he's a starting left tackle.  Based on what?  I'll tell you.  It's based on the fact that we did not have one damn left tackle on the entire roster.  He has to go.  He must for the future of our franchise.  I am also on record wanting to keep Trubisky until we got our guy.  If that happens, we have Kyle Fuller too.  Hindsight, looking at Pace really pisses me off.  Sorry for the rant.  I'm just done with Pace moreso than Nagy.

Pace has spent more future;re capital in money and draft picks to make up for his past mistakes every year kicking the can down the road.  Like refinancing you 20 yer mort. back up to 30 to pay off your credit cards and then pile them up again.  He should of realized after 2019 that this team was not what he thought it ws.  No qb, no of line, aging vets.  Yet he still made questionable hires trying to win now.   And I still think he feels like they are only one of two players away from turning it around.   I know this has been said many times before but it just seems like they are digging the hole deeper and deeper and can't put the shovel down.  Someone just has to take it away.  Little chance of that.  In 2018 I thought we had found our GM, Coach and QB.  Now we hope we have found our QB but I have no faith the other two can develope him to become as great as we all hope he can be.

[Mongo3451]

Can we add our thoughts on this?  I'll compile our collective thoughts and go on radio with Carmen and Jurko, then Waddle and Silvey.  After that, a formal letter to Virginia.  I'm done with these clowns.  Pace with no OL and youth.  Nagy is a just a cartoon coyote.

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

6 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

 

Can we add our thoughts on this?

 

Can Nagy, make Lazor interim HC and  elevate DeFlip to O coordinator.  

[Mongo3451]

22 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Can Nagy, make Lazor interim HC and  elevate DeFlip to O coordinator.  

I would actually have Mike Pettine be interim, so Lazor and Flip can focus.  Pettine has experience in the position.

[adam]

This offense has mustered 3 TDs in 3 games and none in the last 7 quarters of play. The defense beat Cincy. Without the Smith Pick-6 the Bears are 0-3. 

If the Bears lose to the Lions next week, Nagy has to be fired.  

[Alaskan Grizzly]

43 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

I would actually have Mike Pettine be interim, so Lazor and Flip can focus.  Pettine has experience in the position.

That would work too.  Wasn’t sure if they could move a front office guy to HC.  But yeah, I’d agree to that.  

[jason]

Clean house.

GM- Charlie Casserly type, someone who has PROVEN success, not one of those “wants to be the smartest guy in the room”-types.

HC- Hire Pete Carmichael, New Orleans Saints Offensive Coordinator

Draft OL and Huge program guys from SEC, BIG 10, BIG 12, Clemson, etc.

 

[lemonej]

I'm not sure who is out there that has previous GM experience but, if I remember correctly the Bears have not had a GM with previous experience since Jim Finks. After he was forced out the door every GM following was a first time GM and all the head coaches except John fox have been first time head coaches. My picks for first time head coaches are Joe Brady, Eric Bienemey, Stanford's Shaw and Byron Leftwich.

[Bill]

I know this will be a bad take and unpopular.  Hire Mike Florio for Press of football operations.  No personnel decisions just for office stuff.  Legal guy, knows the league., has a ton of contacts, knows to keep his nose out of the football side.  Hire Louis Reddick for GM and let him hire the best candidates for coaches.  Oh and do it this week.

[madlithuanian]

On 9/26/2021 at 5:11 PM, Mongo3451 said:

Can we add our thoughts on this?  I'll compile our collective thoughts and go on radio with Carmen and Jurko, then Waddle and Silvey.  After that, a formal letter to Virginia.  I'm done with these clowns.  Pace with no OL and youth.  Nagy is a just a cartoon coyote.

 

I already posted my letter!   I'm in agreement with virtually everyone here.  Pace and Nagy have to go.  Phillips should go.  This franchise needs a football mind at the top, not an accountant.

[AZ54]

I still like Pace and I freely acknowledge his mistakes.  I don't even mind the trade up for Trubisky because if he's your guy you go get him.  I'd rather have that in a GM than the Angelo way when we were afraid to trade up a couple spots to ensure we got Aaron Donald.  I think we did something similar a year prior to where we saw someone trade up ahead of us and draft our primary target.  I can live with results of someone who at least believes in his scouting enough to go get them. 

That's the same approach that led to Fields.  I believe Fields is the right choice.  The more I've researched into the draft the more I've learned why Bill Belichick just wants to collect as many picks as possible.  There are many ways to build a team including not using your first round picks as the Rams have done.  I don't want to go into a back and forth on all his draft picks we all know the failures.  I simply think Pace has learned and improved over the years.  He seemed to be more about the athlete early on and now is better evalauting the football player.  I think his first HC choice showed that same tendency to go to the shiny new object.  I don't think his 2nd choice will follow that same path.  

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/why-the-rams-have-traded-away-so-many-first-round-picks-an-inside-look-at-los-angeles-unique-draft-strategy/

Nagy on the other hand.   The Santa's Sleigh play was the pinnacle of his career.  It doesn't matter if it's the inability to call running plays when he freely admits his QB is struggling, to calling a goal line dive play with Cordarrelle Patterson, he can't get out of his own way.  More importantly I don't think he's learning, nobody does and he's making John Fox look like an offensive genius. 

I still think he has the traits to be a good HC if he just focused on that, but he's just not a good OC.  If he can't see that and won't make that change then it's just further proof he's not acting as a head coach.  In that case, we must make the decision for him and if it comes down to that he'll be on his couch watching games like the rest of us.    

Someone once asked Jerry Jones if he was the GM would Jerry (the owner) fire himself?  Jones was at least honest enough to admit he would have.    

[Mongo3451]

14 hours ago, AZ54 said:

I still like Pace and I freely acknowledge his mistakes.  I don't even mind the trade up for Trubisky because if he's your guy you go get him.  I'd rather have that in a GM than the Angelo way when we were afraid to trade up a couple spots to ensure we got Aaron Donald.  I think we did something similar a year prior to where we saw someone trade up ahead of us and draft our primary target.  I can live with results of someone who at least believes in his scouting enough to go get them. 

That's the same approach that led to Fields.  I believe Fields is the right choice.  The more I've researched into the draft the more I've learned why Bill Belichick just wants to collect as many picks as possible.  There are many ways to build a team including not using your first round picks as the Rams have done.  I don't want to go into a back and forth on all his draft picks we all know the failures.  I simply think Pace has learned and improved over the years.  He seemed to be more about the athlete early on and now is better evalauting the football player.  I think his first HC choice showed that same tendency to go to the shiny new object.  I don't think his 2nd choice will follow that same path. 

First off, welcome back AZ!  I've missed your perspective and wisdom.  That being said, I could not disagree more regarding Pace.

From a talent perspective alone, he has had more losses than wins.  After that, subtract the two and a half drafts he's traded away for his convictions on players.  Finally, we've never been in worse cap position to cut, trade or sign players.  Our OL and DB situation is enough to get anyone fired.

Edit:  The fact that Nagy is still calling plays also shows a huge lack of balls for the boss man.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Mongo3451
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[Alaskan Grizzly]

Nagy held a press conference a bit ago and said ‘nothing’.  But some of the Twitter reactions are hilarious, like this one:

 

[madlithuanian]

5 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Nagy held a press conference a bit ago and said ‘nothing’.  But some of the Twitter reactions are hilarious, like this one:

 

ha!!!

[AZ54]

16 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

First off, welcome back AZ!  I've missed your perspective and wisdom.  That being said, I could not disagree more regarding Pace.

From a talent perspective alone, he has had more losses than wins.  After that, subtract the two and a half drafts he's traded away for his convictions on players.  Finally, we've never been in worse cap position to cut, trade or sign players.  Our OL and DB situation is enough to get anyone fired.

Edit:  The fact that Nagy is still calling plays also shows a huge lack of balls for the boss man.

What exactly is the cap the crisis next year?  Admittedly I'm just now looking into it at Overthecap.com but it appears we have $45mil in cap space, and cutting Foles and Cohen frees up  an additional $5.2mil.  We already have Cohen's replacement on the roster (pick any from among the RB / WR depth - finding someone good at running out of bounds isn't hard to do).

I see one player we should re-sign in Roquan and that's big money.   Other than that I'd like ARob back but not at $20mil/yr.   I'd like Akiem Hicks back too but not at $10mil/yr.  He's aging but I think in a rotational role he can still contribute meaningful snaps.   Neither of Hicks or ARob are must haves but there is a bigger need at WR.   If Tonga improves and Goldman returns to form I can see them letting Hicks go unless he's willing to do a team friendly deal.  We can slide Goldman out to DE and keep Tonga at NT next year on run downs.     

Below them we have Pat O'Donnell, Nichols, James Daniels, and Ifedi.    Depending on what they see out of Borom and Jenkins it's likely they may only choose to sign one of the oline.   Nichols is a good player but his injury history hurts his market value, we'll close a deal with him.   Going forward we'll be sitting without a heavy QB contract in 2022/23/24 which should give room to fix other positions.  

https://overthecap.com/free-agency/chicago-bears/

Are there players on the roster paid too much like Eddie Jackson?  At the time of his deal he earned it IMO but this year not in the least.  Quinn based on last year's performance?  This year it's early but he's earning it.  Around the league every roster has a few of these contracts to live with but I don't see it impacting 2022.  There are 18 teams with less cap space than we have in 2022 including every team in the NFC North.   Packers and Vikings are among the league worst and are negative.   

[Stinger226]

Glad the voice of reason is back other than the (support Pace narrative). Every GM makes mistakes along the way, and Pace seems to repeat them. I also liked his aggressiveness but transactions like jumping the gun to sign Foles when he should have let the market play out. Did that with Glennon on a big contract, and again with Dalton. He gets nervous that he will be left out and wastes money. I would rather be more conservative and grab what's available at a better deal. We praise him for not being cheap (Jackson) and end up with a player relaxing because he got paid. Not letting Graham leave and save either Leno or Fuller. Just bad decisions. He finally addresses OL and the supposed starting OTs are on IR. Didnt leave an option for the spots if the rookies didnt work out in the first year. 

[Mongo3451]

6 hours ago, AZ54 said:

What exactly is the cap the crisis next year? 

Was referring to the last two years.

 

[adam]

6 hours ago, AZ54 said:

What exactly is the cap the crisis next year?  Admittedly I'm just now looking into it at Overthecap.com but it appears we have $45mil in cap space, and cutting Foles and Cohen frees up  an additional $5.2mil.  We already have Cohen's replacement on the roster (pick any from among the RB / WR depth - finding someone good at running out of bounds isn't hard to do).

I see one player we should re-sign in Roquan and that's big money.   Other than that I'd like ARob back but not at $20mil/yr.   I'd like Akiem Hicks back too but not at $10mil/yr.  He's aging but I think in a rotational role he can still contribute meaningful snaps.   Neither of Hicks or ARob are must haves but there is a bigger need at WR.   If Tonga improves and Goldman returns to form I can see them letting Hicks go unless he's willing to do a team friendly deal.  We can slide Goldman out to DE and keep Tonga at NT next year on run downs.     

Below them we have Pat O'Donnell, Nichols, James Daniels, and Ifedi.    Depending on what they see out of Borom and Jenkins it's likely they may only choose to sign one of the oline.   Nichols is a good player but his injury history hurts his market value, we'll close a deal with him.   Going forward we'll be sitting without a heavy QB contract in 2022/23/24 which should give room to fix other positions.  

https://overthecap.com/free-agency/chicago-bears/

Are there players on the roster paid too much like Eddie Jackson?  At the time of his deal he earned it IMO but this year not in the least.  Quinn based on last year's performance?  This year it's early but he's earning it.  Around the league every roster has a few of these contracts to live with but I don't see it impacting 2022.  There are 18 teams with less cap space than we have in 2022 including every team in the NFC North.   Packers and Vikings are among the league worst and are negative.   

The cap crisis is if you just look at dead money. However, if they restructure a few contracts, the dead money won't be much different than this year and Fields still on his rookie deal. The SB window is Field's year 3-4-5. That is the sweet spot. So I think they are targeting 2023-2025 as the current window. This year and next year are transition years as they flip the roster while trying to stay somewhat competitive. It also makes sense from a draft pick perspective. The next first rounder is 2023.

[adam]

19 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

Glad the voice of reason is back other than the (support Pace narrative). Every GM makes mistakes along the way, and Pace seems to repeat them. I also liked his aggressiveness but transactions like jumping the gun to sign Foles when he should have let the market play out. Did that with Glennon on a big contract, and again with Dalton. He gets nervous that he will be left out and wastes money. I would rather be more conservative and grab what's available at a better deal. We praise him for not being cheap (Jackson) and end up with a player relaxing because he got paid. Not letting Graham leave and save either Leno or Fuller. Just bad decisions. He finally addresses OL and the supposed starting OTs are on IR. Didnt leave an option for the spots if the rookies didnt work out in the first year. 

The head scratcher is Graham vs Fuller. Leno was supposed to be replaced by Jenkins, but injury prevented that. However, DB is still a huge weakness on this team and it was caused by retaining Graham who has literally been completely useless on offense.