Week 6 Official Game Thread - GB @ CHI , +4.5, O/U 45, SUN 10/17, 12PM CT - FOX

[adam]

For me the turning point in the game was the blown call on the neutral zone/offsides on the Packers that resulted in an INT.  This was after a GB 3 and out.  3rd and 7 from the GB 47. That was easy 4 down territory. Fields thinks he has a free play. The Packers get the ball at the 20, which turns that play into a 27 yard punt. The Packers then go 80 yards and score a TD, tie game. 

The penalty comparison was 7 for the Bears to 3 against the Packers. 7 - 3. You are not going to win many games with that many calls against you and for the other team. Almost all of those extended GB drives or killed CHI drives. That doesn't even count the numerous no-calls on GB. It's almost impossible to win if you are playing uphill.

[Daventry]

How can we keep blaming blown calls and conspiracy theories?  We lost, if it had gone the other way the fans of the other team would be giving up the same excuses.  We lost.  We are not good enough.  Why?  That is the question 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

10 minutes ago, adam said:

 

For me the turning point in the game was the blown call on the neutral zone/offsides on the Packers that resulted in an INT. 

 

Agreed-totally.  
 

the time Fields tried to call timeout but wasn’t given it didn’t help either. 

[adam]

Just now, Daventry said:

How can we keep blaming blown calls and conspiracy theories?  We lost, if it had gone the other way the fans of the other team would be giving up the same excuses.  We lost.  We are not good enough.  Why?  That is the question 

Every game comes down to 2-3 plays. The Offense is still not good enough to win games. The defense, playing with 10 players (can't count Jackson), held Rodgers to under 200 yards passing and still lost by 10. Games come down to turnovers and penalties. If you lose both of those, you lose the game 99% of the time. The Bears lost both, without even watching the game, you would know there was a really high chance they lost the game. That's just a fact.

[adam]

1 minute ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Agreed-totally.  

the time Fields tried to call timeout but wasn’t given it didn’t help either. 

Another big one. Big plays should be either great offensive plays or defensive plays. Not calls or missed calls. 

[adam]

36 minutes ago, Daventry said:

Anyone changing their mind about starting Fields?  

At this point, let him get the game experience. There is zero reason to start Dalton. It is not like he would've done much better than Fields. He definitely throws the ball away instead of taking those two late sacks, but he also doesn't escape and pick up two first downs with his scrambling. The last time he did that he injured himself. 

The play calling is still too conservative. Outside of the INT, did Fields have any high danger passes?

[Daventry]

10 minutes ago, adam said:

Every game comes down to 2-3 plays. The Offense is still not good enough to win games. The defense, playing with 10 players (can't count Jackson), held Rodgers to under 200 yards passing and still lost by 10. Games come down to turnovers and penalties. If you lose both of those, you lose the game 99% of the time. The Bears lost both, without even watching the game, you would know there was a really high chance they lost the game. That's just a fact.

Exactly.  It’s not blown calls it’s lack of production.  We are not a force in the division, we are mediocre.  Why are we giving up draft picks every year?  Why are we starting a rookie quarterback who is not ready?  Why do we have a coach who insists on calling offensive plays when he has been shown to be a failure doing so?  I could go on and on.  The issues are with management 

[Daventry]

1 minute ago, adam said:

At this point, let him get the game experience. There is zero reason to start Dalton. It is not like he would've done much better than Fields. He definitely throws the ball away instead of taking those two late sacks, but he also doesn't escape and pick up two first downs with his scrambling. The last time he did that he injured himself. 

The play calling is still too conservative. Outside of the INT, did Fields have any high danger passes?

He wouldn’t have done worse and he could have watched and learned.  It did no good to start him so why do it?  Rodgers sat for years behind Favre and he turned out ok 

[madlithuanian]

Why to I submit myself to this?  There are just better things to do with one's Sunday than this...

[madlithuanian]

They owners don't care.  Why should I?

[Bill]

4 hours ago, adam said:

For me the turning point in the game was the blown call on the neutral zone/offsides on the Packers that resulted in an INT.  This was after a GB 3 and out.  3rd and 7 from the GB 47. That was easy 4 down territory. Fields thinks he has a free play. The Packers get the ball at the 20, which turns that play into a 27 yard punt. The Packers then go 80 yards and score a TD, tie game. 

The penalty comparison was 7 for the Bears to 3 against the Packers. 7 - 3. You are not going to win many games with that many calls against you and for the other team. Almost all of those extended GB drives or killed CHI drives. That doesn't even count the numerous no-calls on GB. It's almost impossible to win if you are playing uphill.

The turning pointing of the Bears was the day the Packers traded for Favre and continues with Rogers.  I can't imagine how much time and heartbreak I have spent the last 30 years expecting anything to change.

[adam]

How do you have a chance when there are plays like this on scoring drives:

Marked as a first down and he didnt even make it back to the LOS. 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

13 minutes ago, adam said:

How do you have a chance when there are plays like this on scoring drives:

Marked as a first down and he didnt even make it back to the LOS. 

I vaguely remember that play and thought something weird had happened.  I want to say even Olsen made some sort of remark to the same effect. 

[Bill]

1 hour ago, adam said:

How do you have a chance when there are plays like this on scoring drives:

Marked as a first down and he didnt even make it back to the LOS. 

It's not one play or missed call.  It's a culture of winning or not.  Since Ditka left and I thought he well over stayed his time.  The Bears have not had that hunger, even during Lovie's time.  

 

But what do I know!!

[adam]

9 hours ago, Bill said:

It's not one play or missed call.  It's a culture of winning or not.  Since Ditka left and I thought he well over stayed his time.  The Bears have not had that hunger, even during Lovie's time. 

But what do I know!!

Lovie was pretty good. 

Right now the offense still has Nagy written all over it. Did Lazor call more Zone runs, sure. Herbert looked great. However, the passing plays are still not there. On at least two of the Fields sacks, no one was open and they were all deep shots where defenders could cover 2 receivers at the same time. Kmet finally got some targets and was very effective. Why did they stop going to the well? 

[BearFan2000]

8 hours ago, Bill said:

It's not one play or missed call.  It's a culture of winning or not.  Since Ditka left and I thought he well over stayed his time.  The Bears have not had that hunger, even during Lovie's time.  

 

But what do I know!!

It has a lot to do with culture and an organization that's either committed to winning football or doing just enough to keep fans in the stands and money rolling in.  

In the last 20-30 years the Bears organization has proven time and time again they are ok with mediocre with an occasional bright spot season or two sprinkled in (blind squirrel).  Over that span we've had players who have displayed that hunger to win, but the overall team has not often shown that kind of hunger.  The Bears have been in a holding pattern for so long now it's become habit.

With the talent on this roster, this should have been at least a competitive game and it felt like that for all of a quarter or so, but as per usual the wheels fall off and we lose.  There were blow and missed calls that certainly didn't help, but our own play didn't help us either.  Good teams can overcome bad calls, or bad breaks.  The Bears are just not a good "team."  We have plenty of talent, yet we never play up to our potential as a group.  

Fields shows some promise but is making plenty of rookie mistakes.  Too often he tries to make something happen when there's nothing there and needs to learn sometimes it's ok to throw the ball away.  Live to fight another down or series.  It's just a matter of recognizing when a play is dead, you don't have to be the hero every snap.  The late sack he took that put us out of FG range effectively eliminating any chance of us potentially tying the game with a FG there and possible a defensive stop to give the offense a chance to score on the next possession.  I get that Justin feels pressure to be everything us fans have been hoping for at the QB position for a long time.  That can be a huge weight if you let it.   Just focus on playing your game, focus on the game one play at a time.  I do believe that Fields is a resilient kid and the best is yet to come.  But in the short term he looks like he's trying to do too much on every play rather than just take what's there.  A three and out is better than forcing something that's not there.  On the Interception, and this should come in time, if you don't see a flag even if it's obvious it should have been a free play, don't just assume (especially when you play the packers) that a flag will be thrown for the offsides.  Flag or not where he placed the ball there were no Bears receivers in the area.  On a free play you have the freedom to take a chance but it should be reasonable chance not just throw it deep and hope one of your guys is there to catch it.  I don't remember if he was hit on the throw and that altered the ball, but point being outside of a Hail Mary play, you need to throw it in the vicinity of your receiver.  He got away with one later that was like a carbon copy of that play, only got away with it because the Packers DB was out of bounds before he could establish possession.  Again no one near the DB, not sure who he was throwing to or if the ball just sailed on him.   Mistakes will happen and I feel like Fields will grow from this and he has the desire and work ethic to improve.  A big part of the adjustment college QB's need to make in the NFL is college defenses are generally weaker than pro defenses.  Your decisions have to be more precise, decisive, and the windows are tighter, and the coverages are more complex.  

The D played well early on but as the game wore on they gave more and more.  I like what Dessi has done and our pass rush has looked tons better this season and is more reminiscent of Fangio's D.   But the back end is and will continue to be a liability.  I can't think that we couldn't bring in someone who can actually tackle in place of Jackson.  I don't see how there can't be someone out there that can play at least average to take his spot.  2019 is looking more and more like a mirage that he's lived off of since then.  If Adams doesn't step out of bound he would have given up a TD after just a shoulder bump.  Be a man and tackle him, do your job!!!.  Just like one side of the ball failing to hold up its end and pull its weight I feel like the back end of our D keeps letting down the front 7, and that has to get old.  They are working their butts off only to see the secondary fail to make a play.  Complimentary football is so important to consistent success.  Late in the game when the offense pulls us to within 3, and instead of coming up with a key stop to give the offense the chance to take the lead, the D just let's GB march down the field and score. Even worse we allowed Rodgers to make our D look silly on a TD run that should not have happened.

After he scores the TD he goes to the stands and taunts us by saying "I own you."  I hate Rodgers and Green Bay with a passion, but it burns just as much because he's right.  And Bears management is ok with this.  We've beaten GB what 4 times in the last 7years?  They have owned us and to Rodgers has made a career of making us look bad.  Bears vs Packers isn't so much a rivalry as it is a tradition that GB will twice a year embarrass us.  I for one will admit I'm jealous of their success, and the luck they've had over the years going from HOF QB to HOF QB while we repeatedly get the QB position wrong.  It's simply salt in the wound watching them regularly get favorable treatment by the officials, not just against us but in general.  In general they have been the better run organization, and again we look like we're playing checkers while they are playing chess.  

[Mongo3451]

1 hour ago, BearFan2000 said:

 There were blow and missed calls that certainly didn't help, but our own play didn't help us either.  Good teams can overcome bad calls, or bad breaks.  The Bears are just not a good "team."

Totally agree.  Some teams say, "oh no you didn't!", while the Bears say, "here we go again".

[madlithuanian]

5 hours ago, BearFan2000 said:

It has a lot to do with culture and an organization that's either committed to winning football or doing just enough to keep fans in the stands and money rolling in.  

In the last 20-30 years the Bears organization has proven time and time again they are ok with mediocre with an occasional bright spot season or two sprinkled in (blind squirrel).  Over that span we've had players who have displayed that hunger to win, but the overall team has not often shown that kind of hunger.  The Bears have been in a holding pattern for so long now it's become habit.

With the talent on this roster, this should have been at least a competitive game and it felt like that for all of a quarter or so, but as per usual the wheels fall off and we lose.  There were blow and missed calls that certainly didn't help, but our own play didn't help us either.  Good teams can overcome bad calls, or bad breaks.  The Bears are just not a good "team."  We have plenty of talent, yet we never play up to our potential as a group.  

Fields shows some promise but is making plenty of rookie mistakes.  Too often he tries to make something happen when there's nothing there and needs to learn sometimes it's ok to throw the ball away.  Live to fight another down or series.  It's just a matter of recognizing when a play is dead, you don't have to be the hero every snap.  The late sack he took that put us out of FG range effectively eliminating any chance of us potentially tying the game with a FG there and possible a defensive stop to give the offense a chance to score on the next possession.  I get that Justin feels pressure to be everything us fans have been hoping for at the QB position for a long time.  That can be a huge weight if you let it.   Just focus on playing your game, focus on the game one play at a time.  I do believe that Fields is a resilient kid and the best is yet to come.  But in the short term he looks like he's trying to do too much on every play rather than just take what's there.  A three and out is better than forcing something that's not there.  On the Interception, and this should come in time, if you don't see a flag even if it's obvious it should have been a free play, don't just assume (especially when you play the packers) that a flag will be thrown for the offsides.  Flag or not where he placed the ball there were no Bears receivers in the area.  On a free play you have the freedom to take a chance but it should be reasonable chance not just throw it deep and hope one of your guys is there to catch it.  I don't remember if he was hit on the throw and that altered the ball, but point being outside of a Hail Mary play, you need to throw it in the vicinity of your receiver.  He got away with one later that was like a carbon copy of that play, only got away with it because the Packers DB was out of bounds before he could establish possession.  Again no one near the DB, not sure who he was throwing to or if the ball just sailed on him.   Mistakes will happen and I feel like Fields will grow from this and he has the desire and work ethic to improve.  A big part of the adjustment college QB's need to make in the NFL is college defenses are generally weaker than pro defenses.  Your decisions have to be more precise, decisive, and the windows are tighter, and the coverages are more complex.  

The D played well early on but as the game wore on they gave more and more.  I like what Dessi has done and our pass rush has looked tons better this season and is more reminiscent of Fangio's D.   But the back end is and will continue to be a liability.  I can't think that we couldn't bring in someone who can actually tackle in place of Jackson.  I don't see how there can't be someone out there that can play at least average to take his spot.  2019 is looking more and more like a mirage that he's lived off of since then.  If Adams doesn't step out of bound he would have given up a TD after just a shoulder bump.  Be a man and tackle him, do your job!!!.  Just like one side of the ball failing to hold up its end and pull its weight I feel like the back end of our D keeps letting down the front 7, and that has to get old.  They are working their butts off only to see the secondary fail to make a play.  Complimentary football is so important to consistent success.  Late in the game when the offense pulls us to within 3, and instead of coming up with a key stop to give the offense the chance to take the lead, the D just let's GB march down the field and score. Even worse we allowed Rodgers to make our D look silly on a TD run that should not have happened.

After he scores the TD he goes to the stands and taunts us by saying "I own you."  I hate Rodgers and Green Bay with a passion, but it burns just as much because he's right.  And Bears management is ok with this.  We've beaten GB what 4 times in the last 7years?  They have owned us and to Rodgers has made a career of making us look bad.  Bears vs Packers isn't so much a rivalry as it is a tradition that GB will twice a year embarrass us.  I for one will admit I'm jealous of their success, and the luck they've had over the years going from HOF QB to HOF QB while we repeatedly get the QB position wrong.  It's simply salt in the wound watching them regularly get favorable treatment by the officials, not just against us but in general.  In general they have been the better run organization, and again we look like we're playing checkers while they are playing chess.  

Spot on!

[50england50]

Listening to Nagy if you take him at face value Fields is progressing so this year if the supporting cast can keep us competitive we might be in a good place at the end of the year if Fields gets to where he can be a difference player. Alternatively this year is just about Fields’ develop with no expectations. 
 

My biggest take from yesterday was at the end of the half. I think after they ruled Amos out after the review the clock wasn’t set correctly but this was compounded by Fields not being able to call a timeout and Nagy not recognising the situation and he called the timeout. Fields tried to call it with about 4 secs on the clock. 
 

That delay of game was brutal and I know one timeout is huge but Nagy burned one earlier by not throwing the red flag until after wasting a timeout to look at it. If Nagy called the timeout we would have had 35 secs and on 3rd down. 

[Mongo3451]

At the end of the day 14 points doesn't win very often and our defense is older and slower, so everything has to be perfect.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

49 minutes ago, 50england50 said:

Listening to Nagy if you take him at face value Fields is progressing so this year if the supporting cast can keep us competitive we might be in a good place at the end of the year if Fields gets to where he can be a difference player. Alternatively this year is just about Fields’ develop with no expectations. 
 

My biggest take from yesterday was at the end of the half. I think after they ruled Amos out after the review the clock wasn’t set correctly but this was compounded by Fields not being able to call a timeout and Nagy not recognising the situation and he called the timeout. Fields tried to call it with about 4 secs on the clock. 
 

That delay of game was brutal and I know one timeout is huge but Nagy burned one earlier by not throwing the red flag until after wasting a timeout to look at it. If Nagy called the timeout we would have had 35 secs and on 3rd down. 

This - we are set to have a pretty fun 2nd half of the season. I'd say we are a few weeks away from that - but I am really excited to see what Fields and the team looks like in the 2nd half of the year. To me I want to see a special game or two out of Fields. That isn't to say a perfect game - but more a game where he is just consistently flashing. I think all great QB's do it at some point during their rookie year (even if not perfect - they'll have that game with a bunch of great plays and some stupid mixed in).  

I also am very curious to see how Pace handles the trade deadline as I think they have some veteran pieces they should be looking to move for draft picks.  Robinson (or maybe in the offseason), Quinn, Mack (probably not until the offseason), Hicks, and one of Dalton/Foles are a few.  I'm not expecting a massive package (unless you are talking Mack and/or Robinson) but you should be able to at least get some additional young picks that could be crucial (whether you use them or dangle some of them to move up in the draft and/or trade for other players in the off-season).  

I also think with Nagy - the decision will be pretty easy. If Bears are showing real progress in 2nd half of season - he stays and is on for next year. If not - new coach. Re: Pace, I would not do what I'm about to say - but I feel like the front office, unless Fields is an utter disaster this season, will allow Pace to hire a new coach this offseason if that is what Pace wants to do.  The only way I see both Pace/Nagy out is if Fields is a total disaster - but I would actually be pretty shocked if that happened. 

Right now - I think it is 50/50 on Nagy being gone and 10/90 on Pace being gone.  

[50england50]

I have watched the series at the end of the 2nd quarter when we should have at least a field and this was the more likely result. 

I’m shocked at the delay of game. I don’t know if I’m missing something but with Nagy supposedly no longer calls play how do we get a delay of game. 

After the decision that Amos was out of bounds the Bears were in the huddle for nearly 20 secs and then broke to set at the line of scrimmage. Surely Nagy would be in Fields’ headset asking for urgency and if not to avoid the delay of game which at that point must have been partly due to him and Fields the only option would be to take the final timeout. Try to get the first down on 3rd and 8 and unless the ball was out of bounds hurry on and kick the field goal. There was 25 secs on the clock is that time to get back to the line of scrimmage and kick the field goal. 

[adam]

By the way, did anyone else notice Nagy having his card back in front of his face. I will have to watch the game again, but some said he didn't have it in the first quarter, then was seen with it in the 2nd and 3rd quarters (when everything stalled), and didn't have it again in the 4th. The 2x TD drives were in the 1st and 4th.

Check this out:

If that is the case, Nagy should be fired. 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

1 hour ago, adam said:

By the way, did anyone else notice Nagy having his card back in front of his face. I will have to watch the game again, but some said he didn't have it in the first quarter, then was seen with it in the 2nd and 3rd quarters (when everything stalled), and didn't have it again in the 4th. The 2x TD drives were in the 1st and 4th.

Check this out:

If that is the case, Nagy should be fired. 

I can’t swear by it but if I recall, Nagy was carrying a scaled down play card for most of the game.  I’m pretty sure I saw him with it during the 1st quarter.  It definitely wasn’t the size of Dennys menu like what he normally carries.  I don’t recall him ever holding it up to his face between plays so I’m thinking it was more a prop. But I can’t swear he didn’t call plays for the 2nd and 3rd quarter.  For as awful as the team played during that time it sure seemed like it. 

Another thing to take note in is are the off field exchanges between Fields and Nagy.  There’s definitely a Cutler-Mike Tice vibe there.  Back when Trubiksy played whenever he’d come off the field and Nagy ran to talk with him, Trub would appear to hang on his every word.  Not so much with Justin.  I’ve picked up on it a few games now; especially after Lazor started calling plays.  This video reminded me of it.  

[adam]

10 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

I can’t swear by it but if I recall, Nagy was carrying a scaled down play card for most of the game.  I’m pretty sure I saw him with it during the 1st quarter.  It definitely wasn’t the size of Dennys menu like what he normally carries.  I don’t recall him ever holding it up to his face between plays so I’m thinking it was more a prop. But I can’t swear he didn’t call plays for the 2nd and 3rd quarter.  For as awful as the team played during that time it sure seemed like it. 

Another thing to take note in is are the off field exchanges between Fields and Nagy.  There’s definitely a Cutler-Mike Tice vibe there.  Back when Trubiksy played whenever he’d come off the field and Nagy ran to talk with him, Trub would appear to hang on his every word.  Not so much with Justin.  I’ve picked up on it a few games now; especially after Lazor started calling plays.  This video reminded me of it.  

I will have to watch the game again to see if I can pick up on that. Interesting that they don't show him that much lately. 

 

Back to the Dillon spot. In this video, watch the side judge take a side step to his right. Not only did he side step further than Dillon got, he was still short of the sticks and they marked the ball another yard down field. WTH.