OT Gruden out as Raiders coach

[killakrzydav]

I guess those pitiful nine points were too much to take.

[AZ54]

The stuff he's been saying has gone on for years. The bigger question is who out'ed him and why?  Why now and not 10 years ago?  Why were they, and apparently many others, willing to cover this up for so long and how is that acceptable?      

[BearFan2000]

To be honest we've all said and done things in our past that we regret or wouldn't want aired in public.  It's kind of ridiculous that something from someone's past (sometimes decades old stuff) is brought up to ruin their life now when they aren't the same person.  People change, can't speak for Gruden specifically, but by all accounts he's remorseful about those things.  I'm not a Gruden fan by any stretch.  Never cared for him as a play by play guy, and he basically won a SB with Dungy's team and got the credit for it and he's kinda lived off that success since then.  He's overrated as a coach.  But I give him props for choosing to step down rather have the organization and his players dragged through the muck on his account.   Like AZ said who out'd him and why now rather than 10 years ago.  Someone had an axe to grind (who by the way probably has skeleton's in their closet as well).  I feel people need to be allowed the opportunity to show they've change or grown up, or whatever.  I feel like we need to be more forgiving of each other in society as a whole rather than cancel someone because they once did or said something that makes people butthurt.  Just my two cents.   

 

[Pixote]

1 hour ago, BearFan2000 said:

To be honest we've all said and done things in our past that we regret or wouldn't want aired in public.  It's kind of ridiculous that something from someone's past (sometimes decades old stuff) is brought up to ruin their life now when they aren't the same person.  People change, can't speak for Gruden specifically, but by all accounts he's remorseful about those things.  I'm not a Gruden fan by any stretch.  Never cared for him as a play by play guy, and he basically won a SB with Dungy's team and got the credit for it and he's kinda lived off that success since then.  He's overrated as a coach.  But I give him props for choosing to step down rather have the organization and his players dragged through the muck on his account.   Like AZ said who out'd him and why now rather than 10 years ago.  Someone had an axe to grind (who by the way probably has skeleton's in their closet as well).  I feel people need to be allowed the opportunity to show they've change or grown up, or whatever.  I feel like we need to be more forgiving of each other in society as a whole rather than cancel someone because they once did or said something that makes people butthurt.  Just my two cents.   

I agree that it is very possible the "Gruden" who wrote those emails a decade or so ago (I'm assuming they are all from his distant past) may not be the "Gruden" we know today. People do change. So I agree with you on those issues you addressed above.

As far as his coaching skills in the past, I'd have to disagree with you. He was VERY successful as a HC in Oakland the first time around. Why did they trade him? We're talking about the now deceased Al Davis, who did some very controversial moves as owner. Tampa Bay must have thought highly of him, giving up two first round & two second round draft picks along with millions of dollars to trade for him.

As far as his coaching skills in the present? He spent too many years as a commentator and like many HCs wo "unretire" and return to the game, he lost a step or two. I suspect the only reason he was still coaching before this "email" event occurred was because of his friendship with the Davis family and the outrageous 10 year 100 million dollar contract he signed. Eventually, he would have been let go and returned to the booth. Now, he will probably never even be hired as a commentator. He will be on the "do not touch" list.

Edit:

I just read an article, here is a quote:

Quote

On Monday, the New York Times reported it reviewed more emails and found Gruden denounced women being employed as on-field officials, a team drafting an openly gay player and the tolerance for national anthem protesters.

So, now I see the issues are not all in the past. He certainly still has some ongoing issues.

[Mongo3451]

What constitutes someone's eligibility to be employed is getting ridiculous.  What's next; hunters for killing deer, devout Christians for believing in biblical sin? ?

 

[Connorbear]

I'm sure his resignation came after a lengthy discussion involving lawyers on how he was being paid to go away. It's not about what constitutes eligibility to be employed. He was the face of the Raiders and the owner knew that would be a huge distraction going forward.

Peace

[Alaskan Grizzly]

I don’t feel too awful for Gruden given he got at least $30 million from the team before he resigned (3 years coaching x $10million per year).  It’s unfortunate that someone decided now was the time to ‘grind axes’ but someone else here pointed out Gruden doesn’t appear to have changed his stripes either.  

[Mongo3451]

5 hours ago, Connorbear said:

I'm sure his resignation came after a lengthy discussion involving lawyers on how he was being paid to go away. It's not about what constitutes eligibility to be employed. He was the face of the Raiders and the owner knew that would be a huge distraction going forward.

Peace

I'll take that shot.  Ask Trent Dilfer, Kurt Schilling, Ditka, Sage Steele and Rachel Nichols how they feel.  They are being silenced.  Freedom of speech and expression doesn't even apply to Gruden.  His private emails were hacked.  God forbid if anyone makes it and their porn history comes up.  This is completely stupid...

[AZ54]

39 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

  God forbid if anyone makes it and their porn history comes up.  This is completely stupid...

What do you know and when did you know it?  

[Mongo3451]

10 hours ago, AZ54 said:

What do you know and when did you know it?  

????

[Connorbear]

17 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

I'll take that shot.  Ask Trent Dilfer, Kurt Schilling, Ditka, Sage Steele and Rachel Nichols how they feel.  They are being silenced.  Freedom of speech and expression doesn't even apply to Gruden.  His private emails were hacked.  God forbid if anyone makes it and their porn history comes up.  This is completely stupid...

Freedom of speech only applies to government infringing on our speech. The NFL is a private organization. That being said, it is stupid but it was a to a point that it would damage the Raiders organization if they kept him. 

Peace

[Mongo3451]

1 hour ago, Connorbear said:

Freedom of speech only applies to government infringing on our speech.

I'm well versed on the Constitution.  I said it didn't apply to him.  Our nation is pussyfied and butthurt way too much these days.

[AZ54]

It's getting  more interesting.  As I said many people knew about all this a decade ago so why now, and who is behind this?    

https://nypost.com/2021/10/13/jon-gruden-scandal-washington-cheerleaders-furious-over-photos/

...and a good bit on the hypocrisy of the NFL in its treatment (firing) of Gruden versus NFL players who have been accused of far worse (Antonio Brown, DeSean Jackson come to mind and both are getting an NFL paycheck).  In the meantime lets get ready for the rappers at the Superbowl halftime show because if the NFL is legit with these standards it will be highly entertaining to watch the after-show.  I'm sure all their lyrics fit the "Gruden" standards. 

I'm not part of the holier than thou club and I do believe in 2nd chances and that people can a do change for the better.   I also think the NFL has every right to decide who represents them in the public space.  If they want to be taken seriously they should be consistent in their standards but...  

https://spectatorworld.com/life/jon-gruden-nfl-raiders-roger-goodell/

 

[BearFan PHX]

News flash - everyone is human.

If you keep cancelling everyone for being human, then we are ALL under fire.

And that is what this is about. Creating the conditions to blackmail everyone. No one will feel comfortable to criticize anything that might happen when they know they have something in an email they shouldnt have said - and that's EVERYONE.

It's disgusting, and much more offensive than any private comments he made. Intention is everything. Hateful people could say good morning in a way that sucks, and people who arent hateful should be able to speak freely without being cancelled. But everyone is scared. For now anyway.

[adam]

On 10/12/2021 at 9:42 PM, Mongo3451 said:

I'll take that shot.  Ask Trent Dilfer, Kurt Schilling, Ditka, Sage Steele and Rachel Nichols how they feel.  They are being silenced.  Freedom of speech and expression doesn't even apply to Gruden.  His private emails were hacked.  God forbid if anyone makes it and their porn history comes up.  This is completely stupid...

Get out of my browser history Mongo! 

I was assuming he would be fined or suspended, and would have to attend some type of sensitivity training. 

It seems odd that he was forced to resign yet there are players, coaches, and owners who have said and done worse that are still employed. 

[Mongo3451]

Everyone should be forced to watch All in the Family, the Jefferson's and anything Dave Chappell has ever done before being allowed to vote, lol.  BTW - watched Chappelle's 'The Closer' last night.  I had to turn the fan on!  ?

[Connorbear]

4 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

Everyone should be forced to watch All in the Family, the Jefferson's and anything Dave Chappell has ever done before being allowed to vote, lol.  BTW - watched Chappelle's 'The Closer' last night.  I had to turn the fan on!  ?

Watched "The Closer" the other day as well. Fantastic work. 

Peace

[Connorbear]

20 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

I'm well versed on the Constitution.  I said it didn't apply to him.  Our nation is pussyfied and butthurt way too much these days.

Read your response wrong. My bad. 

Peace

[Stinger226]

Grudens comments was taken care of with Karma, he will never work again in the NFL but like AZ, how was he the only one targeted when they viewed the emails of many management comments. I think they picked out Gruden for the sacrificial lamb, but odd, no other person was announced. Everyone has said something over their life that would offend someone. Once does not make a fair complaint but obviously Gruden overdid it and deserving so no longer works but he cant be the only one that said something offensive. 

[jason]

On 10/12/2021 at 9:09 AM, Pixote said:

I agree that it is very possible the "Gruden" who wrote those emails a decade or so ago (I'm assuming they are all from his distant past) may not be the "Gruden" we know today. People do change. So I agree with you on those issues you addressed above.

As far as his coaching skills in the past, I'd have to disagree with you. He was VERY successful as a HC in Oakland the first time around. Why did they trade him? We're talking about the now deceased Al Davis, who did some very controversial moves as owner. Tampa Bay must have thought highly of him, giving up two first round & two second round draft picks along with millions of dollars to trade for him.

As far as his coaching skills in the present? He spent too many years as a commentator and like many HCs wo "unretire" and return to the game, he lost a step or two. I suspect the only reason he was still coaching before this "email" event occurred was because of his friendship with the Davis family and the outrageous 10 year 100 million dollar contract he signed. Eventually, he would have been let go and returned to the booth. Now, he will probably never even be hired as a commentator. He will be on the "do not touch" list.

Edit:

I just read an article, here is a quote:

So, now I see the issues are not all in the past. He certainly still has some ongoing issues.

Your final comment is based on the following you quoted: On Monday, the New York Times reported it reviewed more emails and found Gruden denounced women being employed as on-field officials, a team drafting an openly gay player and the tolerance for national anthem protesters.

Here's the thing, none of that was worthy of firing.

1. Gruden is right about women officials in the NFL. Women being on the field as officials is 100% affected by the NFL attempting to hire based on an attempt to draw more female fans, and not because those women are the best of the best. I know this for a fact. I'm in officiating circles and have been one for nearly 20 years. I know people who have been passed over who are definitely better and have more experience than Sarah Thomas. I literally heard someone speak at a banquet who was high up in the NFL's Officiating Department, and he was point-blank told that if he didn't hire a woman soon, he'd be out of a job. So, yeah, Gruden has a good point there.

2. Openly gay players (i.e. Michael Sam) is not even a controversial stance. He was below average everywhere, had misleading stats, and many felt at the time that he was drafted as more publicity stunt than anything since late round picks are often throwaways. But as the Dave Chappelle stand-up said...

3. As for protesting the National Anthem, well, that pisses off about half the country; so, that isn't exactly a fireable comment or offense.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

1 hour ago, jason said:

Here's the thing, none of that was worthy of firing.

“Here’s the thing” Jason, when a private institution sees a problem employee that could do harm to them, whether it be image or otherwise they have the right to do as they choose.  Firing included. 

In todays world, whether you or I like it or not, anything political will be cast in a floodlight and highlighted as a huge deal.  Whether it be misogyny, homophobia or denying someone’s 1st amendment rights it’ll always catch attention.  As Mongo so eloquently pointed out perhaps it’s the “pussifying of America” but that’s the hand we’re dealt.  
 

 

[adam]

Technically Gruden resigned. There was no way he could go back into that locker room after saying things like that.

Everyone can speculate that he would've been fired if he didn't but we don't know that. Those were emails from a decade ago when he wasn't employed by the current employer, so the NFL or the team really couldn't do much to him for something that occurred before his employment. They would've been sued to hell. I am sure there was some type of mutual agreement. 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

12 minutes ago, adam said:

Everyone can speculate that he would've been fired if he didn't but we don't know that. Those were emails from a decade ago when he wasn't employed by the current employer, so the NFL or the team really couldn't do much to him for something that occurred before his employment.

I think to Pixotes point from earlier, it was discovered he (Gruden) had been still spouting some of this stuff recently (ergo the response from Jason).   And sure he didn’t get “fired” but it was “fireable” with regards to what the Raiders options were.  

[adam]

9 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

I think to Pixotes point from earlier, it was discovered he (Gruden) had been still spouting some of this stuff recently (ergo the response from Jason).   And sure he didn’t get “fired” but it was “fireable” with regards to what the Raiders options were.  

Oh, I didn't know that. If there was proof of more recent activity, then I could see them forcing him out. Either way, he technically was not disciplined by the league or the team.