3-7, so now what

[adam]

The season is over, they would have to win 6 out of 7 to only have a slim chance at the playoffs based on wins by SF and MIN. 

So with that, this is what needs to happen the rest of the season or before next season. Fire Pace, fire Nagy and the entire coaching staff. You have to get the stench off this team and the only way is to clean house. Allow the new GM to come in and hire his guy. On offense, draft/sign a Center and WR, don't sign ARob, don't resign Monty. On defense, shoot Vildor to the moon, draft/sign a starting CB, Safety and ILB. Don't re-sign Nichols, only bring Hicks back on a one-year deal. 

To end this season, I would bring up Adams to see what he can do. You might as well cut Byrd. I would sit or put as many vets on IR as possible and get an extended look at some of the younger guys. 

 

[killakrzydav]

We’re no where’s good as we think we are. Too bad we sat out the sellers market at the deadline. Focus on young player development. Hope for playoffs in 2024.

[killakrzydav]

Crazy to think about bringing back Hicks. He’s just playing to be an injury nowadays.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

1 hour ago, killakrzydav said:

Crazy to think about bringing back Hicks. He’s just playing to be an injury nowadays.

Mack and Hicks both.  Seems they both catch a bug around the time the team starts sinking. 

 

[Stinger226]

I agree with most of your comments . DM still has a contract thru 2022. 1.2 mil. He will still be here. Nichols didnt take a step forward but resign him to a team friendly deal. I think it is time to cut ties with Hicks. Coming back to this team will cost to much. He aint going to sign a 1 yr 5 mil deal. Tonga and Blackson will have to fill the role and draft someone. The big contracts arent going anywhere. To much dead money. Mack, EJAC, Quinn. It will also cost 9 mil next yr if we cut Danny Trevathan. A lot of bad contracts on this team will limit what we can do. It will now cost us 5 mil to cut Graham. Pace played to much with the cap. We need to acquire a CB, WR and OC in that order. I could also see maybe finally moving Daniels to OC and maybe have a new guard. WE do have a core of players to work with. Fields-Mooney-Kmet-Bosom-Jenkins?-Herbert--Whitehair-R Smith- J Johnson-T Gibson.  Daniels contract is up and I think they bring him back for decent money. We need a good GM and let him pick everyone. The Pace era is over. 

[adam]

48 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

I agree with most of your comments . DM still has a contract thru 2022. 1.2 mil. He will still be here. Nichols didnt take a step forward but resign him to a team friendly deal. I think it is time to cut ties with Hicks. Coming back to this team will cost to much. He aint going to sign a 1 yr 5 mil deal. Tonga and Blackson will have to fill the role and draft someone. The big contracts arent going anywhere. To much dead money. Mack, EJAC, Quinn. It will also cost 9 mil next yr if we cut Danny Trevathan. A lot of bad contracts on this team will limit what we can do. It will now cost us 5 mil to cut Graham. Pace played to much with the cap. We need to acquire a CB, WR and OC in that order. I could also see maybe finally moving Daniels to OC and maybe have a new guard. WE do have a core of players to work with. Fields-Mooney-Kmet-Bosom-Jenkins?-Herbert--Whitehair-R Smith- J Johnson-T Gibson.  Daniels contract is up and I think they bring him back for decent money. We need a good GM and let him pick everyone. The Pace era is over. 

This team is so weird, we consider 9 guys on offense the young core but it's the same young core that has done absolutely nothing on offense. Is a WR1 and C going to magically fix this? I don't think so. We probably need a C, G, a pass-catching TE, a WR1 and WR3 (Slot WR). 

The cap next year is a disaster. Mack $30M, Quinn $17M, Jackson $15M, Goldman $12M, those 4 making $74M is criminal. Pace should be locked up for that. That doesn't even count Foles making $10.6M, Graham making $4.6M, Trevathan making $5.9M, Dalton making $5M, and Cohen making $5.7M, which is an additional $31.8M on players making zero contributions to the team. So $105.8M in those 9 players with only Mack, Quinn, and somewhat Goldman contributing. 

There are very few guys you can save money by cutting, but for the roster spots, I would cut Foles, Cohen and Graham. That will cost $15.7M in dead cap, but free up 3 roster spots. 

The offense would have Fields, Montgomery, Herbert, Mooney, Whitehair, Ifedi, Jenkins, Borom, Kmet, Dalton and James. They will need to address C, G, WR1, and WR3 with roster spots. If they re-sign Daniels, that fills one hole.

On defense, you are paying Mack, Quinn, Goldman, Smith, Jackson, Trevathan, Blackson, Gipson (S), Attacochu, Edwards, Johnson, Shelley, Gipson (OLB), and Tonga. With the potential loss of Hicks and Nichols, you would need 2x DL, 2x CB, S, and ILB. 

So the offseason will have to fill holes at C, G, WR1, WR3, DL, DL, CB2 with upgrades needed at CB3, S, and ILB. That is a lot to do without a 1st Round pick and limited cap space. The new GM will have their work cut out for them. 

 

I would also cut Vildor twice. 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

3 hours ago, adam said:

They will need to address C,

Still struggling with this one.  With Herbert and his vision the zone blocking works.  With Monty not so much. He locks in on where he’s gonna go then torques and turns to make max yards.  
 

With Justin at QB you see someone still learning how to read the field and the pocket collapsing quickly. With Dalton you see quick and decisive throws and after a few of those plenty of time to throw as the game progresses.  
 

Mustipher played center for all of it.  

[DABEARSDABOMB]

15 hours ago, killakrzydav said:

We’re no where’s good as we think we are. Too bad we sat out the sellers market at the deadline. Focus on young player development. Hope for playoffs in 2024.

I actually think the opposite - we are much closer than we think we are. There are actually a lot of pieces/potential pieces on the offensive side of the equation - the biggest question being Jenkins and Fields, but there are quality running backs, one good wideout, a solid TE, and obviously a QB who has upside and two potentially solid young tackles.  Defensively - you have a solid young CB and Roquan Smith and some other young players looks solid enough on the line (Gipson, etc).  

Mack will either be traded (and he still has value - maybe no 2 1st round pick value but at the minimum I believe you can get 2 2nd's for him).  Quinn may have some value too now.  Again - not 1st round value and in his case probably not 2nd round value, but 3rd round value. He also has value remaining because you can't just dump everyone.  

But despite the record - this team has basically blown 3 completely winnable games (Steelers / Niners / Ravens). Quite frankly the Steelers game was the one they probably shouldn't have won give the punt block. But this should be a near .500 team that is in the middle of transitioning into a new QB who while no guarantee has certainly flashed. 

By the way - all of this is under the assumption we have at a minimum, a brand new coaching staff - which is a total given.  

[DABEARSDABOMB]

3 hours ago, adam said:

This team is so weird, we consider 9 guys on offense the young core but it's the same young core that has done absolutely nothing on offense. Is a WR1 and C going to magically fix this? I don't think so. We probably need a C, G, a pass-catching TE, a WR1 and WR3 (Slot WR). 

The cap next year is a disaster. Mack $30M, Quinn $17M, Jackson $15M, Goldman $12M, those 4 making $74M is criminal. Pace should be locked up for that. That doesn't even count Foles making $10.6M, Graham making $4.6M, Trevathan making $5.9M, Dalton making $5M, and Cohen making $5.7M, which is an additional $31.8M on players making zero contributions to the team. So $105.8M in those 9 players with only Mack, Quinn, and somewhat Goldman contributing. 

There are very few guys you can save money by cutting, but for the roster spots, I would cut Foles, Cohen and Graham. That will cost $15.7M in dead cap, but free up 3 roster spots. 

The offense would have Fields, Montgomery, Herbert, Mooney, Whitehair, Ifedi, Jenkins, Borom, Kmet, Dalton and James. They will need to address C, G, WR1, and WR3 with roster spots. If they re-sign Daniels, that fills one hole.

On defense, you are paying Mack, Quinn, Goldman, Smith, Jackson, Trevathan, Blackson, Gipson (S), Attacochu, Edwards, Johnson, Shelley, Gipson (OLB), and Tonga. With the potential loss of Hicks and Nichols, you would need 2x DL, 2x CB, S, and ILB. 

So the offseason will have to fill holes at C, G, WR1, WR3, DL, DL, CB2 with upgrades needed at CB3, S, and ILB. That is a lot to do without a 1st Round pick and limited cap space. The new GM will have their work cut out for them. 

 

I would also cut Vildor twice. 

A few things - the young core needs a WR 1 and a legit additional wideout, plus a better system. The oline is a ?, absolutely need to invest in an additional lineman and you probably wait a year to evaluate both tackles (so center is the logical place to invest).  The big reason the offense is sputtering is playcalling and the fact we have a young QB who is developing, so yeah, I like a lot of the young pieces and potential presuming the QB, plus better system, can help take things to next level.  

Defensively - they are aging, but still have some solid young building blocks and Pace if anything has shown a good job at finding defensive players. I ripped him for dumping Fuller but Fuller hasn't been good in Denver and Quinn looked awful but this years Quinn is exactly what they paid for and than some.  

Cap wise - They are not in a bad spot this off-season, could it be better sure, but they have cap space and in 2 years they can be in a position where they have massive cap space. So I actually think pretty firmly about how quickly this thing can turn around.  

[Alaskan Grizzly]

55 minutes ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

I actually think the opposite - we are much closer than we think we are. There are actually a lot of pieces/potential pieces on the offensive side of the equation - the biggest question being Jenkins and Fields, but there are quality running backs, one good wideout, a solid TE, and obviously a QB who has upside and two potentially solid young tackles.  Defensively - you have a solid young CB and Roquan Smith and some other young players looks solid enough on the line (Gipson, etc).  

Agreed on all points.  As cliche as it sounds, this team is alot better off than the 3-7 record says.  I'm encouraged by the potential.  

[Bill]

33 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Agreed on all points.  As cliche as it sounds, this team is alot better off than the 3-7 record says.  I'm encouraged by the potential.  

I hope yo'ur closer to right than wrong.  But we have no idea what this team is with this coaching staff.  As fans I think we see things that aren't there or don't see what is there.  The only thing I'm sure of, is that this whole coaching staff needs to go.  They are the biggest issue and the easiest to hopefully fix.  But the players need to make plays and I have not seen that on a consistent basis.  It's like this year has been played in a fog.  You know there're playing, you know the score, but you can't see the wh, er, reason for anything.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

I always appreciate watching the “Football After Show” with Dave Kaplan ( and Olin, Alex and Lance).  They breakdown what they think went right or wrong and give some good perspective from a players standpoint.
 

They ask a great question (with no answer) of what did the team (coaching) do during the bye week to figure out how to score more points?  Why aren’t they playing to Justin’s (and the other playmakers’) strengths?  This is the same pattern we saw with Mitch and the one constant is Nagy.  
 

 

 

[Mongo3451]

IMO, this was a wasted year and it didn't have to be.  I wanted to go into this season with Mitch on a one year deal while we built infrastructure for the heir apparent.  But no, we sign Dalton, keep Graham and fail to secure the OL for yet another season.  Then we get blessed by Fields dropping to us.  Once that narrative changed, the staff couldn't put a growth plan in place.  Yet we keep Graham again and fail to address the OL again.  Now we have 4 TE's that we barely use, an OL that can only run block,  small receivers that can't block and 3 running backs that are collectively good.  And we don't run the ball!  We elect to get our franchise QB murdered every week in attempt to save Nagy. 

With all that said, I'm going back to square one.  For next year, I want two OL upgrades, find a number one reciever to develop and ween us from this dead ass defense that holds on by a thread every week.  We must run the ball to help Justin Fields and I mean 40x a game.  Next year would be ugly, but it would be identity setting ugly while the guts of the team are built from the inside out.  No more trading picks away and moving contracts to the future.  That's save the GM tactic that should ONLY be used to win a Superbowl.  Nagy ruined that window by failing to install offense.  Pace destroyed next year by screwing up the last 4 years.  How much money has gone out to Dalton, Foles and the giraffe neck guy?  I disagree with anyone that says we are close.  2023 will be our upswing if we are fortunate.

[Daventry]

6 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

IMO, this was a wasted year and it didn't have to be.  I wanted to go into this season with Mitch on a one year deal while we built infrastructure for the heir apparent.  But no, we sign Dalton, keep Graham and fail to secure the OL for yet another season.  Then we get blessed by Fields dropping to us.  Once that narrative changed, the staff couldn't put a growth plan in place.  Yet we keep Graham again and fail to address the OL again.  Now we have 4 TE's that we barely use, an OL that can only run block,  small receivers that can't block and 3 running backs that are collectively good.  And we don't run the ball!  We elect to get our franchise QB murdered every week in attempt to save Nagy. 

With all that said, I'm going back to square one.  For next year, I want two OL upgrades, find a number one reciever to develop and ween us from this dead ass defense that holds on by a thread every week.  We must run the ball to help Justin Fields and I mean 40x a game.  Next year would be ugly, but it would be identity setting ugly while the guts of the team are built from the inside out.  No more trading picks away and moving contracts to the future.  That's save the GM tactic that should ONLY be used to win a Superbowl.  Nagy ruined that window by failing to install offense.  Pace destroyed next year by screwing up the last 4 years.  How much money has gone out to Dalton, Foles and the giraffe neck guy?  I disagree with anyone that says we are close.  2023 will be our upswing if we are fortunate.

Agreed with your point that we are going to have to accept a bad team for awhile, I would say two to three years.  I hated moving up all of the time in the draft.  Apart from Fields it was a waste.  Overpaying for free agents regularly, Glennon has to be one of the biggest wastes of money ever.  The philosophy is wrong, always going for today’s answers and ignoring tomorrow completely.  If the Bears don’t dump the management this year I will stop watching, buying or supporting in any way until they do

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Safe to assume Quinn is frustrated.  Rumors swirling that many players want Nagy gone.  

 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

5 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Safe to assume Quinn is frustrated.  Rumors swirling that many players want Nagy gone.  

 

Writing is on wall. Lazor or someone else will coach final 1-2 games of season. Only question at this point is if they will have a new GM or not. 

[AZ54]

13 hours ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

I actually think the opposite - we are much closer than we think we are. There are actually a lot of pieces/potential pieces on the offensive side of the equation - the biggest question being Jenkins and Fields, but there are quality running backs, one good wideout, a solid TE, and obviously a QB who has upside and two potentially solid young tackles.  Defensively - you have a solid young CB and Roquan Smith and some other young players looks solid enough on the line (Gipson, etc).  

Mack will either be traded (and he still has value - maybe no 2 1st round pick value but at the minimum I believe you can get 2 2nd's for him).  Quinn may have some value too now.  Again - not 1st round value and in his case probably not 2nd round value, but 3rd round value. He also has value remaining because you can't just dump everyone.  

But despite the record - this team has basically blown 3 completely winnable games (Steelers / Niners / Ravens). Quite frankly the Steelers game was the one they probably shouldn't have won give the punt block. But this should be a near .500 team that is in the middle of transitioning into a new QB who while no guarantee has certainly flashed. 

By the way - all of this is under the assumption we have at a minimum, a brand new coaching staff - which is a total given.  

I lean this way as well... we're closer than we think we are.   Not Superbowl close but this isn't a total rebuild.  Looking at our season so far I think competent coaching changes at least 2 games our way, maybe 3, with the same roster.   With Fields on board finding a WR1 isn't mandatory IMO.  We can do what the Rams have done and go with several competent WR2.  Newsome may yet be one of them, we need to see him play before the year is out.  Get rid of Nagy's pet players.  He wants the speed/trick play guys (Byrd, Cohen, Patterson, etc.) but never knows how to fit them into the offense.  It's not that I don't want to have one of these type of players on the roster but as far as I'm concerned our PR/KR Grant can fill that role.   

TE is good with Kmet, James (re-sign ), and can anyone explain why we aren't using Horsted more on offense?  He is exactly what Fields needs as a compliment to Kmet's inline play.  Instead Nagy sticks with Graham.  If we let Horsted go we're going to regret it.   I'm good with Holtz too in his current role.  

Oline I usually defer to those with more insight but while we know Jenkins is a big question mark right now it's quite possible he and Borom are our bookend OTs.  We're ok at OG IMO.   So if we need to fix the center position that's not a sky-is-falling proposition. 

More or less for offense we need to fix a couple WR spots and OC plus scheme/play caller.  

Dline isn't all bad either.  I'm good with Goldman as he is starting to round into form.    IMO he's getting back to the player he used to be.  The missing piece has been Hicks and he just can't stay healthy at this point in his career.  I'd re-sign him to a very team friendly deal but he's backup/part-time material and should be paid accordingly.  We need to find his replacement.  If Tonga can improve it might be as simple as moving Goldman out to DE.   Nichols won't cost much we need to keep him around.  Draft an interior pass rusher.  

OLB:  I'm keeping Mack unless a team gives us those two picks someone mentioned earlier.  He's still a force against both run and pass even if not an elite edge rusher anymore.  Quinn will be ok next year and I expect Trevis Gipson to be improved.  It's just not a position we need to break and rebuild when we have other issues.  If we can get improved interior rush the edges will be more productive.  

ILB:  Roquan is going to get paid.  He's everywhere and sometimes looks like he's doing everyone else's job.   We can find a complimentary piece to play next to him for a reasonable price.  

CB:  Gotta fix this spot opposite Jaylon Johnson but when you consider finding the CB1 in Johnson is the more difficult challenge we should be able to correct this.  

S:  This is our biggest issue on defense and it's such a huge hole it makes all others look bad.  Eddie Jackson will be gone.  He has $5mil guaranteed and there's no reason to throw even more money than that his way.  Expect him to be a late cut to spread out the hit.  Tayshaun Gipson is just always late to the party, we need replacements at both spots.  I'd even consider using our 2nd Rd pick to fix this position but scanning draft boards the talent isn't there.   I haven't done much scouting but I like Lewis Cine out of Georgia as a mid-rd pick.  

 

 

 

 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

7 hours ago, AZ54 said:

I lean this way as well... we're closer than we think we are.   Not Superbowl close but this isn't a total rebuild.  Looking at our season so far I think competent coaching changes at least 2 games our way, maybe 3, with the same roster.   With Fields on board finding a WR1 isn't mandatory IMO.  We can do what the Rams have done and go with several competent WR2.  Newsome may yet be one of them, we need to see him play before the year is out.  Get rid of Nagy's pet players.  He wants the speed/trick play guys (Byrd, Cohen, Patterson, etc.) but never knows how to fit them into the offense.  It's not that I don't want to have one of these type of players on the roster but as far as I'm concerned our PR/KR Grant can fill that role.   

TE is good with Kmet, James (re-sign ), and can anyone explain why we aren't using Horsted more on offense?  He is exactly what Fields needs as a compliment to Kmet's inline play.  Instead Nagy sticks with Graham.  If we let Horsted go we're going to regret it.   I'm good with Holtz too in his current role.  

Oline I usually defer to those with more insight but while we know Jenkins is a big question mark right now it's quite possible he and Borom are our bookend OTs.  We're ok at OG IMO.   So if we need to fix the center position that's not a sky-is-falling proposition. 

More or less for offense we need to fix a couple WR spots and OC plus scheme/play caller.  

Dline isn't all bad either.  I'm good with Goldman as he is starting to round into form.    IMO he's getting back to the player he used to be.  The missing piece has been Hicks and he just can't stay healthy at this point in his career.  I'd re-sign him to a very team friendly deal but he's backup/part-time material and should be paid accordingly.  We need to find his replacement.  If Tonga can improve it might be as simple as moving Goldman out to DE.   Nichols won't cost much we need to keep him around.  Draft an interior pass rusher.  

OLB:  I'm keeping Mack unless a team gives us those two picks someone mentioned earlier.  He's still a force against both run and pass even if not an elite edge rusher anymore.  Quinn will be ok next year and I expect Trevis Gipson to be improved.  It's just not a position we need to break and rebuild when we have other issues.  If we can get improved interior rush the edges will be more productive.  

ILB:  Roquan is going to get paid.  He's everywhere and sometimes looks like he's doing everyone else's job.   We can find a complimentary piece to play next to him for a reasonable price.  

CB:  Gotta fix this spot opposite Jaylon Johnson but when you consider finding the CB1 in Johnson is the more difficult challenge we should be able to correct this.  

S:  This is our biggest issue on defense and it's such a huge hole it makes all others look bad.  Eddie Jackson will be gone.  He has $5mil guaranteed and there's no reason to throw even more money than that his way.  Expect him to be a late cut to spread out the hit.  Tayshaun Gipson is just always late to the party, we need replacements at both spots.  I'd even consider using our 2nd Rd pick to fix this position but scanning draft boards the talent isn't there.   I haven't done much scouting but I like Lewis Cine out of Georgia as a mid-rd pick.  

 

 

 

 

As always - well said and I agree with most everything. I don't agree Dazz will be a guy at wideout - but i do agree with your point, which is let him get his shot. Same with Rodney Adams, give them reps.  See if you have anything. At this point, not a lot of downside.  Byrd isn't doing jack.  

On Horstead - we see eye to eye. Whenever he is in, he makes plays and clearly should be used more than Graham at this point.  

[Mongo3451]

For those that think the glass is half full.  We need 2 WR, OC, ILB, DE, CB and 2 S.  That's 8 poditions that need upgraded badly.  Doing the math, we have 28 players under contract for next year and some of those should be cut.  So that's a minimum of 33 players needed to make a better roster.  And as of now, Ryan Pace is still the GM. With our limited amount draft picks and cap space, how do we get better next year?  Let er rip, because I can't wrap my head around it.