New coach

[NAMEDSONPAYTON2]

Leslie Frazier? 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

1 hour ago, NAMEDSONPAYTON2 said:

Leslie Frazier? 

Hmmm…intriguing suggestion.  I like the Bears connection.  He’s considered the Asst HC in Buffalo.  Not sure if a Defensive minded coach is needed right now, unless he runs a more conservative style like say Vic does.  

[ASHKUM BEAR]

Why not Greg Roman? He created the offense to fit Lamar Jackson in Baltimore.  

[AZ54]

I don't care if our next HC is defense oriented as long as we get a good OC.  It's always hard to know who the good HC candidates because the role is different from being a coordinator.  Media hype being what it is doesn't make it any easier, and the coaching fraternity isn't going to say anything negative (nor should they).  IMO Frazier belongs on the short list for the Bears.  Looking at his resume he's been around the league, including a few years as a HC at Minn.  He has the contacts and the reputation and knowledge to hire experienced quality coaches.   In 2 of the last 3 years the Bills D has been ranked 2nd (2019), and this year they are 1st.   For 2020 they were ranked 16th overall but it's hard to evaluate 2020.    He never really got to that level as the Vikings DC but his defenses were always middle of the pack.  I also like what Sean McDermott has done in Buffalo, especially his first season there.  I think that's a great mentor to build off of, especially when Frazier combines his experience and lessons learned from his first HC job with seeing how McDermott turned around the Bills.  Other NFL coaching associations:  Childress, Reid, Dungy.  He needs to be interviewed. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_Frazier

FWIW I will not be surprised to Matt Nagy be in a similar situation as a HC candidate in 10-15 years.  

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Null

[DABEARSDABOMB]

12 hours ago, AZ54 said:

I don't care if our next HC is defense oriented as long as we get a good OC.  It's always hard to know who the good HC candidates because the role is different from being a coordinator.  Media hype being what it is doesn't make it any easier, and the coaching fraternity isn't going to say anything negative (nor should they).  IMO Frazier belongs on the short list for the Bears.  Looking at his resume he's been around the league, including a few years as a HC at Minn.  He has the contacts and the reputation and knowledge to hire experienced quality coaches.   In 2 of the last 3 years the Bills D has been ranked 2nd (2019), and this year they are 1st.   For 2020 they were ranked 16th overall but it's hard to evaluate 2020.    He never really got to that level as the Vikings DC but his defenses were always middle of the pack.  I also like what Sean McDermott has done in Buffalo, especially his first season there.  I think that's a great mentor to build off of, especially when Frazier combines his experience and lessons learned from his first HC job with seeing how McDermott turned around the Bills.  Other NFL coaching associations:  Childress, Reid, Dungy.  He needs to be interviewed. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_Frazier

FWIW I will not be surprised to Matt Nagy be in a similar situation as a HC candidate in 10-15 years.  

I tend to agree with you. I think Matt Nagy will get another shot and be successful in future, having grown from his experience as previous HC and some more OC type of work.  I think highly of Nagy's ability to be more of a CEO - but he didn't have enough experience leading/play calling and doing some of those other things and I think he'll learn from that. But there are many plus(es) I tie to Nagy too, even how professionally he handled such a tough week and being put in a situation no HC should be (in terms of that press conference where he had to deny the report that he was gone - really so strange).  

I like Frazier - as long as he has some good ties to some offensive minds.  I kind of like going with a more defensive coach who can be a CEO and really entrust the offense to a good coaching staff. The reason being - I think new HC's who also handle all the offense just have a TON to be asked of. There is only one Sean McVay.  

I like Daboll from Bills a ton - but I wonder - how much can he truly learn to be the CEO and do that job while trying to build up and develop a rookie QB.  If he does - he needs a super savvy/experienced DC.  

[BearFan PHX]

the only problem with the "Head Coach just does the head coach stuff, and get a great OC" mindset, which I agree is logical, is that great OCs get snatched away as head coaches.

If you want to hire a man to run your offense (or defense) for a long time, and you thibnk that man is one of the rare few that gives you an edge over the other professional coaches, then youve got to hire him as a head coach or you cant keep him.

And this sets up the weird Head Coach as coordinator issue that we see through the league. it tends to work best when the HC is a tyrant and keeps control of things, and less well when the head coach is a "be you, were all teammates" kind of guy. Becasue how can you have a teammate OC and overrule him all the time?

And anyway, regarding Nagy, he may be a professional, but he does not give your offense an edge, and so he is replaceable with any professional and you will get at least the same results.

Of course we want better than that.

I like the OC in Buffalo. Greg Roman is intriguing too.

[AZ54]

2 hours ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

 There is only one Sean McVay.  

Sean Payton calls plays too.  I think that was to his detriment years ago with all the issues.   As he said at the time he did little to nothing with the D. That was with a HoF QB.   How much more difficult is doing that with a young QB?    
 

We went with Nagy and Fangio.   Tried to replace Vic with another experienced coach in Pagano.   With Nagy on hot seat likely nobody experienced wanted the short leash as our DC so we have Desai.  
 

So we get that option or we go for the executive type like Harbaugh or Tomlin. 

[BearFan PHX]

So does Andy Reid. And nothing happens on the Patriots that Belichick doesnt agree with too.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

5 hours ago, BearFan NYC said:

. it tends to work best when the HC is a tyrant and keeps control of things, and less well when the head coach is a "be you, were all teammates" kind of guy

You describing Vic Fangio, Mike Ditka and to some extent Jim Harbaugh.  All coaches I like based on this character alone.  Although doesn't work as well with the 'newer/younger generation'.  

[ASHKUM BEAR]

6 hours ago, BearFan NYC said:

the only problem with the "Head Coach just does the head coach stuff, and get a great OC" mindset, which I agree is logical, is that great OCs get snatched away as head coaches.

If you want to hire a man to run your offense (or defense) for a long time, and you thibnk that man is one of the rare few that gives you an edge over the other professional coaches, then youve got to hire him as a head coach or you cant keep him.

And this sets up the weird Head Coach as coordinator issue that we see through the league. it tends to work best when the HC is a tyrant and keeps control of things, and less well when the head coach is a "be you, were all teammates" kind of guy. Becasue how can you have a teammate OC and overrule him all the time?

And anyway, regarding Nagy, he may be a professional, but he does not give your offense an edge, and so he is replaceable with any professional and you will get at least the same results.

Of course we want better than that.

I like the OC in Buffalo. Greg Roman is intriguing too.

That is it. 

The key to this team is Justin Fields.  That means they have to hire the top offensive mind to be the HC so he doesn't get plucked away with Fields success.  Since great OCs don't leave teams unless they get a promotion, that will be the hire.  Luring college coaches may be getting more difficult with there increase in pay, so I think if the Bears make a change it will be within the league. 

 

[BearFan2000]

On 11/30/2021 at 9:53 PM, ASHKUM BEAR said:

That is it. 

The key to this team is Justin Fields.  That means they have to hire the top offensive mind to be the HC so he doesn't get plucked away with Fields success.  Since great OCs don't leave teams unless they get a promotion, that will be the hire.  Luring college coaches may be getting more difficult with there increase in pay, so I think if the Bears make a change it will be within the league. 

 

Fields is the key, and will also be a player that makes the Bears HC job attractive.  There is much debate over which method is best hiring a HC who is just the CEO, and focusing on great OC and DC's to shape your offense and defense.  Or getting a HC who has a large role in either the offense or the defense.  There's reasons for and against each situation.  If your offense or defense is hot mainly because of the coordinator, they will get plucked away, and the best ones often have HC aspirations anyway.  Having an offensive or defensive specialized HC if successful does protect that side of the ball where his expertise lies, but can lead to the issue where HC is no longer just a head coach and focuses too much on one side or the other and in our case does neither fully well.  Nagy would benefit more from just focusing on being the CEO/head coach rather than call plays on offense, he just can't help himself but to keep his hand in that cookie jar to the detriment of the team and himself he thinks too highly of himself as an offensive minded coach.  

That's where regardless of the approach you go to whether it's HC is head coach and Coordinators run their side, or HC is HC/OC or HC/DC.  The success or failure always comes back to finding the right person to run the team.   They were talking about this the other day on the radio, and you can look at Belichick in NE.  He is a defensive minded coach who's heavily involved In the defense, but, he's doesn't ignore the offense even though he's had solid play calling from his OC's he has the ability to translate/reverse engineer his defensive knowledge to aid his offensive players to teach them how to attack defense, and what makes various defenses vulnerable.   They also talked about (and agree) there are some coach who are just head and shoulders above the rest and they are special and rare.  The easy thing to want to do is follow this coach or that coach's coaching tree, hoping one of the branches is as strong as the trunk.  Sometimes these coaches from a respective tree show promise early and fizzle.  Some of them pan out.  What we need to look for first and foremost is a HC who can game plan, and adapt to the talent he has on his roster.  You want a coach that is versatile in style not stubborn, thick headed, or smartest man in the room types.  NFL defenses will always adapt to stop what's working, you need to be able to adjust with them, be able to add wrinkles, keep things fresh and stay a step ahead.    Belichick has been a master at evolving his team's style as his roster evolves.  In game management and adjustments are critical as well.  Too often under Nagy we've entered a game looking completely unprepared, and rarely if ever do we adjust in game. Or we'll look good early but once the game goes off script the wheels fall off.

I think it's also very important to have defined roles/boundaries within the staff.  We have chaos on offense because Naggy want's to have control over play calling, gives it up to Laser, takes credit when Laser's offense has success, then will at times take over, to where you never know who's driving the car on offense, and I'm sure that has to be frustrating to the players not knowing who to listen to.  Naggy lacks the self awareness to realize his plays don't work with any consistency and that he should have handed off play calling duties to a full time OC, whether that's Laser or someone else.  You can still be heavily involved in the offensive meetings and such but when your play calling is not working be man enough to admit it and do what's best for the team rather than your ego.  I do tend to prefer a HC have a specialization in one side or the other or even a former ST guy who's worked with both offensive and defensive players. Specializations do tend to protect a strong offense or strong defense, with Fields I'd tend to prefer an offensive minded coach, but I want one who will be involved in both sides of the ball, but at the same time will trust his coordinators and position coaches and not meddle and blur the lines of what the staffs roles are.  Players need to have a leader, who's in charge, doesn't have to be a tyrant, but you know he's at the top of the command chain, but he trusts the coaches under him to do their jobs.

[BearFan PHX]

I dont think it is a bad thing for a HC to call plays, I just think Nagy is awful at it.

[AZ54]

47 minutes ago, BearFan NYC said:

I dont think it is a bad thing for a HC to call plays, I just think Nagy is awful at it.

Just a curiosity:  Why is it that we don't hear about the defensive oriented HCs calling defensive plays?    Is Fangio calling the defense in Denver?  

[adam]

Does anyone remember Dave Ragone? He was supposedly the pass game coordinator or something along those lines. One of the problems with the Bears is the play design. It is horrible, has zero flow and does not put the players in the best position based on their strengths. Regardless of HC or Coordinators, we need someone to bring in a scheme and play calls that stress the defense and use the player's strengths. 

[Stinger226]

I cant believe anyone hasnt mentioned Josh McDaniels. He , although failed, has head coaching experience. Runs a offense in NE that adapts to his talent, instead of trying to push a specific scheme. He handles the QB coaching duties also . Mac Jones has not been spectacular but he seems to be doing what is needed to get the job done. He believes in the run, and good defenses. I think he would be the best choice as the new coach. 

[Mongo3451]

2 minutes ago, adam said:

Regardless of HC or Coordinators, we need someone to bring in a scheme and play calls that stress the defense and use the player's strengths

This is what Belichick has done his entire career on both sides of the ball.  Draft a player that's teachable is at the center of it all.

[Connorbear]

i would love for them to hire Dave Toub as the new head coach. He's been an outstanding special teams coach for years and should have been Lovie's replacement.This is predicated, however, on them hiring a Director of Football Operations (my choice is Trace Armstrong) and a new GM. 

Peace

[AZ54]

https://www.outkick.com/bears-looking-at-bills-dc-leslie-frazier-if-matt-nagy-is-fired/

 

[Pixote]

4 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

I cant believe anyone hasnt mentioned Josh McDaniels. He , although failed, has head coaching experience. Runs a offense in NE that adapts to his talent, instead of trying to push a specific scheme. He handles the QB coaching duties also . Mac Jones has not been spectacular but he seems to be doing what is needed to get the job done. He believes in the run, and good defenses. I think he would be the best choice as the new coach. 

So we hire him as HC. A year or two down the road Belichick retires. Does McDaniels decide to leave the Bears to take his dream job of being HC for NEP? He shafted the Colts, accepting the HC position they offered him, then after they announced his hiring, he went back to NEP. He is a hell-a-va OC but he has a lot of baggage from Denver and then the INDY fiasco. 

[Stinger226]

That could very well happen, but do we hire or not hire a coach because of a maybe? I doubt Belichick leaves in one or two yrs with a rookie QB that could put him on a path to several future SB wins. I dont think they are strong enough this yr to take a SB win, but have progressed to one of the better teams in the American league. Brady won one, Belichick wants to set himself apart from , he needed Brady to win, with another QB that sets him up for multiple SB wins. I do think Indy or Denver prohibits him from getting him a HC job again. 

[Stinger226]

13 hours ago, AZ54 said:

https://www.outkick.com/bears-looking-at-bills-dc-leslie-frazier-if-matt-nagy-is-fired/

 

He is being connected to the Bears because someone is projecting that because he played for them. For me having been a HC before carries merit. Also he has had success as a DC. The most important thing that any DC oriented prospect have to offer is to answer the question , who will be your OC? The hiring will be about Fields, period. 

I get the feeling Pace will not be leaving, of which he already should have been fired over his cap management, but will be moved to President of football operations. Moving Phillips to getting the new stadium on board. I think that would not be a bad thing to at least have a football guy in that position. Then Pace will hire a new GM that will in turn  hire a new coach. Because of Paces ties to Payton in NO, could he want out of NO with the fall off of success from the Brees era? Bringing Payton in to be GM and HC to work with Fields? Payton is one of the better coaches in the league, and maybe he would look for a  new challenge? 

[adam]

26 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

He is being connected to the Bears because someone is projecting that because he played for them. For me having been a HC before carries merit. Also he has had success as a DC. The most important thing that any DC oriented prospect have to offer is to answer the question , who will be your OC? The hiring will be about Fields, period. 

I get the feeling Pace will not be leaving, of which he already should have been fired over his cap management, but will be moved to President of football operations. Moving Phillips to getting the new stadium on board. I think that would not be a bad thing to at least have a football guy in that position. Then Pace will hire a new GM that will in turn  hire a new coach. Because of Paces ties to Payton in NO, could he want out of NO with the fall off of success from the Brees era? Bringing Payton in to be GM and HC to work with Fields? Payton is one of the better coaches in the league, and maybe he would look for a  new challenge? 

Payton got it to work with Winston and Hill, so I can't imagine what he could do with Fields.

I wouldn't mind Frazier, at least we know the defense would go back to tackling. The OC would be the biggest question mark there though, who does he bring in.

[AZ54]

15 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

That could very well happen, but do we hire or not hire a coach because of a maybe? I doubt Belichick leaves in one or two yrs with a rookie QB that could put him on a path to several future SB wins. I dont think they are strong enough this yr to take a SB win, but have progressed to one of the better teams in the American league. Brady won one, Belichick wants to set himself apart from , he needed Brady to win, with another QB that sets him up for multiple SB wins. I do think Indy or Denver prohibits him from getting him a HC job again. 

That's the rookie he wouldn't let throw the football against the Bills?    I know the weather was downright bad with the wind but when it was at his back he still didn't throw.  I don't mind the Fox-ball approach given the weather but 3 passes?  I'm surprised Fox didn't call into the post-game show to say .."I told ya so!"

As far as McDaniels there is zero chance I'd ever hire him after what he did in Denver and then Indy.  People have quit on me in dishonorable ways and then come back asking to work for me again a year or two down the road.  Ain't gonna happen because I could never trust them.  Who wants to work with people they can't trust especially when they are in a leadership position?  

[AZ54]

14 hours ago, adam said:

Payton got it to work with Winston and Hill, so I can't imagine what he could do with Fields.

I wouldn't mind Frazier, at least we know the defense would go back to tackling. The OC would be the biggest question mark there though, who does he bring in.

There is always speculation in the media but from what I read Frazier was being considered because of his success as a DC.  He's going to be a HC candidate for other teams as well so Frazier likely already has OC candidates calling him.