Hoping For Patience

[lemonej]

As a Bear fan for many decades, it's hard to recognize the current process going on! A GM trying to build a team carefully. With all the free movement going on Brian Poles has been controlled with everything he does. I OTOH am so used to the quick fix approach now that I forgot about how Jim Finks built the first playoff team since 63. That took about 3 years and he had the same focus of building through the trenches, like the current GM. So I have to remind myself to wait for the process.

[AZ54]

So you don't want to trade 3 first round picks for a QB who missed a season, and then turn around and give him $230mil guaranteed?  

[adam]

There are probably only 2-3 players that I would've liked the Bears to have signed so far, but there are still a lot of players left. Also, some guys are taking less and going to contending teams. That is hard to compete against in this market because that is when you overpay. 

This team is no worse than it was last year (not saying much) but with better coaching, a real scheme, and improvement from Fields, that should give the team a few extra wins. So if they can just marginally improve across the board in FA this year, they will setup nicely for next year.

[Stinger226]

If you look at all the FAs we got last year, not a lot of producers in that group. I think much better so far.

[BearFan2000]

It is a different process and approach than we're used to.  It's hard watching all the movement in FA and seeing us make minor moves, Poles is focused on doing things right rather than doing things fast.  Pace more than Emery and Angelo was willing to sacrifice the future to patch the present and that catches up with you especially if the patches you are over paying for only mask issue or just outright do little to help.  I don't see Poles overpaying for a has been in Graham, selling the farm to move up 1 spot in the draft to take a QB likely would have been there at your spot, selling the farm for a disgruntled talented QB with character issues (Angelo), and the list goes on.  Pace was the type to have conviction about a move which can be good but it tended to be blind conviction that he would commit or overcommit whatever resources necessary to make a move happen.  He would lose sight of whether that move reaches the point where it's not worth it and you need to let it go and change course.  Sorta like having a plan in mind and not really having a pivot in mind if that plan doesn't work out.  In the past we've compounded poor drafting especially at the top end of our drafts by overpaying to cover for those mistakes.  It's why we're in the cap situation and the draft capital situation we are now, with a team that's not close to being a real contender.  Fixing this the right way will not be an overnight fix, it will take time.  If Poles is able to rebuild from the trenches out and can build the Bears back to being an annual contender it'll take patience from us as fans to trust the process and give him a chance to do what needs to be done.   

We're just now trying to do the reset/rebuild that should have started last offseason.  Poles has his work cut out for him.  There are a lot of unknowns.  We haven't seen Poles run a draft, we haven't seen Poles run a full offseason, we haven't seen him work in season.  First time GM, first time HC, OC, etc.  Thus far he has stuck to his overall stated plan to rebuild our roster.  It's a positive change that he stuck by what he said he'd do and didn't follow through on the signing after the failed physical.  It's an unfortunate situation where you and your staff targeted someone early in FA but made the hard right decision to not go forward, for the greater good of the team.  He also seems more interested in getting feedback and advice from others.  Doesn't seem to suffer from "smartest man in the room" syndrome.  

[Stinger226]

Does anyone think the possibility exist that Larry Ogunjobi could be offered a one year deal to come in and let his surgery heal and then bring him back to the roster? A 5 mil deal? 

I truly believe that instead of giving up picks to move one position to draft Mitch , this GM would have moved back, got extra picks and drafted Mahomes. That's the difference between Poles and Pace.

[adam]

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

Does anyone think the possibility exist that Larry Ogunjobi could be offered a one year deal to come in and let his surgery heal and then bring him back to the roster? A 5 mil deal? 

I truly believe that instead of giving up picks to move one position to draft Mitch , this GM would have moved back, got extra picks and drafted Mahomes. That's the difference between Poles and Pace.

Yeah why not. However, if he is going to take a smaller deal, I am sure he would want to go to a contender.

[ParkerBear7]

15 hours ago, BearFan2000 said:

It is a different process and approach than we're used to.  It's hard watching all the movement in FA and seeing us make minor moves, Poles is focused on doing things right rather than doing things fast.  Pace more than Emery and Angelo was willing to sacrifice the future to patch the present and that catches up with you especially if the patches you are over paying for only mask issue or just outright do little to help.  I don't see Poles overpaying for a has been in Graham, selling the farm to move up 1 spot in the draft to take a QB likely would have been there at your spot, selling the farm for a disgruntled talented QB with character issues (Angelo), and the list goes on.  Pace was the type to have conviction about a move which can be good but it tended to be blind conviction that he would commit or overcommit whatever resources necessary to make a move happen.  He would lose sight of whether that move reaches the point where it's not worth it and you need to let it go and change course.  Sorta like having a plan in mind and not really having a pivot in mind if that plan doesn't work out.  In the past we've compounded poor drafting especially at the top end of our drafts by overpaying to cover for those mistakes.  It's why we're in the cap situation and the draft capital situation we are now, with a team that's not close to being a real contender.  Fixing this the right way will not be an overnight fix, it will take time.  If Poles is able to rebuild from the trenches out and can build the Bears back to being an annual contender it'll take patience from us as fans to trust the process and give him a chance to do what needs to be done.   

We're just now trying to do the reset/rebuild that should have started last offseason.  Poles has his work cut out for him.  There are a lot of unknowns.  We haven't seen Poles run a draft, we haven't seen Poles run a full offseason, we haven't seen him work in season.  First time GM, first time HC, OC, etc.  Thus far he has stuck to his overall stated plan to rebuild our roster.  It's a positive change that he stuck by what he said he'd do and didn't follow through on the signing after the failed physical.  It's an unfortunate situation where you and your staff targeted someone early in FA but made the hard right decision to not go forward, for the greater good of the team.  He also seems more interested in getting feedback and advice from others.  Doesn't seem to suffer from "smartest man in the room" syndrome.  

Angelo made the right call trading for Jay Cutler.  He failed miserably at protecting Jay with a good online and providing offensive weapons to throw to outside of B. Marshall.  

[Mongo3451]

On 3/21/2022 at 3:07 AM, lemonej said:

As a Bear fan for many decades, it's hard to recognize the current process going on! A GM trying to build a team carefully. With all the free movement going on Brian Poles has been controlled with everything he does. I OTOH am so used to the quick fix approach now that I forgot about how Jim Finks built the first playoff team since 63. That took about 3 years and he had the same focus of building through the trenches, like the current GM. So I have to remind myself to wait for the process.

Amen, amen and amen!  This is what I've been waiting for for years.  We've failed to learn from historical things, like the pyramids, that stand the test of time.  All built on a solid foundation.  I'm looking to get a custom Bears tee or jersey with Poles name on the back.  I love this guy and pray he succeeds!

[adam]

It's crazy, but this method may actually pay off. 

I would love to see either Fisher OT or address OG with Bates, Flowers, Turner, or Schofield. Any one of those would be a significant upgrade from what we had last year.

Fisher, Whitehair, Patrick, Bates, Jenkins would be very solid, then you draft OL and have Borom as a super sub.

 

[lemonej]

On 3/21/2022 at 9:51 AM, BearFan2000 said:

It is a different process and approach than we're used to.  It's hard watching all the movement in FA and seeing us make minor moves, Poles is focused on doing things right rather than doing things fast.  Pace more than Emery and Angelo was willing to sacrifice the future to patch the present and that catches up with you especially if the patches you are over paying for only mask issue or just outright do little to help.  I don't see Poles overpaying for a has been in Graham, selling the farm to move up 1 spot in the draft to take a QB likely would have been there at your spot, selling the farm for a disgruntled talented QB with character issues (Angelo), and the list goes on.  Pace was the type to have conviction about a move which can be good but it tended to be blind conviction that he would commit or overcommit whatever resources necessary to make a move happen.  He would lose sight of whether that move reaches the point where it's not worth it and you need to let it go and change course.  Sorta like having a plan in mind and not really having a pivot in mind if that plan doesn't work out.  In the past we've compounded poor drafting especially at the top end of our drafts by overpaying to cover for those mistakes.  It's why we're in the cap situation and the draft capital situation we are now, with a team that's not close to being a real contender.  Fixing this the right way will not be an overnight fix, it will take time.  If Poles is able to rebuild from the trenches out and can build the Bears back to being an annual contender it'll take patience from us as fans to trust the process and give him a chance to do what needs to be done.   

We're just now trying to do the reset/rebuild that should have started last offseason.  Poles has his work cut out for him.  There are a lot of unknowns.  We haven't seen Poles run a draft, we haven't seen Poles run a full offseason, we haven't seen him work in season.  First time GM, first time HC, OC, etc.  Thus far he has stuck to his overall stated plan to rebuild our roster.  It's a positive change that he stuck by what he said he'd do and didn't follow through on the signing after the failed physical.  It's an unfortunate situation where you and your staff targeted someone early in FA but made the hard right decision to not go forward, for the greater good of the team.  He also seems more interested in getting feedback and advice from others.  Doesn't seem to suffer from "smartest man in the room" syndrome.  

Agreed after the 3 previous GMs this is totally different and I actually welcome the change because most of us on this site do research on FAs and draft prospects. It's time delve deeper than before because this GM's playing Poker

[Alaskan Grizzly]

At some point I’d like us to open a thread as to why our team can’t possibly succeed (have a winning season) this year.  I think we need to wait until closer to the start of the season to make that guess but maybe it’s just me.  Like Connor said the other day, we only have 50(?) players on the roster and are due to have as many as 90 when the physical part of the season begins.  Still ALOT of off-season to go.  

[BearFan2000]

1 hour ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

At some point I’d like us to open a thread as to why our team can’t possibly succeed (have a winning season) this year.  I think we need to wait until closer to the start of the season to make that guess but maybe it’s just me.  Like Connor said the other day, we only have 50(?) players on the roster and are due to have as many as 90 when the physical part of the season begins.  Still ALOT of off-season to go.  

I don't think we can ever rule out our team being successful this coming season.  To me the difference is expectation.  I don't place an expectation of success in wins and losses.  To me this season being a success is measured differently, it's about building that foundation for the future and creating the identity the team will have under the new regime.  If we also succeed in the win/loss column that is a welcome outcome, and would help reinforce what Ryan and Mat are trying to create here. Especially for the guys who will make up the core of this team in the near future.  

[adam]

On 3/24/2022 at 12:26 PM, Alaskan Grizzly said:

At some point I’d like us to open a thread as to why our team can’t possibly succeed (have a winning season) this year.  I think we need to wait until closer to the start of the season to make that guess but maybe it’s just me.  Like Connor said the other day, we only have 50(?) players on the roster and are due to have as many as 90 when the physical part of the season begins.  Still ALOT of off-season to go.  

We are so accustomed to a flurry of moves by Pace over the last few years that this patience is not normal for us.  However, I like the approach. Rarely do teams that "win" free agency actually win when real football starts. 

What is funny to me is if you look at the biggest moves of the offseason, none of those teams are in the top 5 for Super Bowl odds after the moves:

1. Denver for Wilson, still not a top 5 team
2. Chargers for Mack, still not a top 5 team
3. Raiders for Adams, still not a top 5 team
4. Miami for Hill, still not a top 5 team
5. Cleveland for Watson, still not a top 5 team
6. Indy for Ryan, still not a top 5 team

Most of those moves have massive contracts, guaranteed money, and will hamstring the cap eventually. The Chargers and Dolphins, from the group, have the best shot with QBs on rookie deals. 

For the Bears, add one more OT and WR in FA and the offense is already better than last year. Add a couple more in the draft, and there could be a bigger than expected improvement.

The defense's drop-off is overrated because we lost some big names, but not really a lot of snaps. Flus and Williams did more with less in Indy. 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

On 3/26/2022 at 4:17 AM, adam said:

The defense's drop-off is overrated because we lost some big names, but not really a lot of snaps. Flus and Williams did more with less in Indy. 

Looks as though Eberflus is keeping an open mind to a few of the players on defense.  Really hope Eddie seizes on this opportunity.

 

[AZ54]

30 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Looks as though Eberflus is keeping an open mind to a few of the players on defense.  Really hope Eddie seizes on this opportunity.

 

That’s pure BS.  Just a way of saying we can’t afford to cut him from that big contract.  I hope he can get him to return to his 2nd year performance but Iif he doesn’t wake up after all the changes this offseason then he’s lost his passion for the game.  I still like Lewis Cine.  

[Mongo3451]

10 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

That’s pure BS.  Just a way of saying we can’t afford to cut him from that big contract.  I hope he can get him to return to his 2nd year performance but Iif he doesn’t wake up after all the changes this offseason then he’s lost his passion for the game.  I still like Lewis Cine.  

Anyone can be cut, so I'm not sure it's BS.  What Eberflus didn't say was, "Eddie and I spoke and he knows he's done if he doesn't play fast and physical.  He wants a chance to prove himself and he's got till the end of camp to do it."  Not that I know anything that was said, it's just the conversation I would have had.

[Pixote]

1 hour ago, Mongo3451 said:

Anyone can be cut, so I'm not sure it's BS.  What Eberflus didn't say was, "Eddie and I spoke and he knows he's done if he doesn't play fast and physical.  He wants a chance to prove himself and he's got till the end of camp to do it."  Not that I know anything that was said, it's just the conversation I would have had.

I agree. Unfortunately, Eddie, over the last two years, has not shown the "M&M Mentality" that our GM & HC has been seeking when establishing our roster. It will be interesting to see if Eddie responds or gets left behind.

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, Mongo3451 said:

Anyone can be cut, so I'm not sure it's BS.  What Eberflus didn't say was, "Eddie and I spoke and he knows he's done if he doesn't play fast and physical.  He wants a chance to prove himself and he's got till the end of camp to do it."  Not that I know anything that was said, it's just the conversation I would have had.

Yes. I expect that this is the conversation, said or implied.

I can also imagine that some players werent throwing their bodies around for Nagy.

Eberflus will know if Jackson is performing or not, and make changes accordingly.

[Stinger226]

I don't think Ajax was called out for his down turn in his play. Poles and Eflus won't care what he's paid, they will sit him.

[AZ54]

6 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

Anyone can be cut, so I'm not sure it's BS.  What Eberflus didn't say was, "Eddie and I spoke and he knows he's done if he doesn't play fast and physical.  He wants a chance to prove himself and he's got till the end of camp to do it."  Not that I know anything that was said, it's just the conversation I would have had.

I like the way you said it.  While I understand Eberflus shouldn’t be criticizing a player publicly his comments on Jackson and his comments about the type of players he wants don’t sync.  So he gets a chance but it’s a realistic possibility he doesn’t make it out of training camp with the Bears.  

[ParkerBear7]

On 3/26/2022 at 6:17 AM, adam said:

We are so accustomed to a flurry of moves by Pace over the last few years that this patience is not normal for us.  However, I like the approach. Rarely do teams that "win" free agency actually win when real football starts. 

What is funny to me is if you look at the biggest moves of the offseason, none of those teams are in the top 5 for Super Bowl odds after the moves:

1. Denver for Wilson, still not a top 5 team
2. Chargers for Mack, still not a top 5 team
3. Raiders for Adams, still not a top 5 team
4. Miami for Hill, still not a top 5 team
5. Cleveland for Watson, still not a top 5 team
6. Indy for Ryan, still not a top 5 team

Most of those moves have massive contracts, guaranteed money, and will hamstring the cap eventually. The Chargers and Dolphins, from the group, have the best shot with QBs on rookie deals. 

For the Bears, add one more OT and WR in FA and the offense is already better than last year. Add a couple more in the draft, and there could be a bigger than expected improvement.

The defense's drop-off is overrated because we lost some big names, but not really a lot of snaps. Flus and Williams did more with less in Indy. 

Bears already are winning the off-season by firing Pace and Nagy.  I love the direction Poles and Cunningham are taking. I’ve always admired organizations like the  Ravens, Steelers and more recently the Chiefs as they seem to always draft and develop well.  Poles is obviously from the Chiefs organization and Cunningham has experience in the Ravens and Eagles organization.  Looking forward to the Bears refresh 2022!

[adam]

On 3/23/2022 at 6:08 AM, adam said:

It's crazy, but this method may actually pay off. 

I would love to see either Fisher OT or address OG with Bates, Flowers, Turner, or Schofield. Any one of those would be a significant upgrade from what we had last year.

Fisher, Whitehair, Patrick, Bates, Jenkins would be very solid, then you draft OL and have Borom as a super sub.

 

Patience paid off.

[adam]

On 3/21/2022 at 2:07 AM, lemonej said:

As a Bear fan for many decades, it's hard to recognize the current process going on! A GM trying to build a team carefully. With all the free movement going on Brian Poles has been controlled with everything he does. I OTOH am so used to the quick fix approach now that I forgot about how Jim Finks built the first playoff team since 63. That took about 3 years and he had the same focus of building through the trenches, like the current GM. So I have to remind myself to wait for the process.

Prophetic lemonej.