Fields compared to other QBs

[adam]

4 hours ago, AZ54 said:

I just watch other games and ask myself would I prefer that QB’s ability over what Fields had been doing the last month.   Mahomes yes and even that has the caveat or wait and see when this team is better next year.  IMO Fields is getting more offense out of less talent around him than any QB in the NFL right now.   Would Mahones get more points than Fields with our roster?   I don’t think so.   Might get the same points but in different ways.
 

i still think fields is a better passer than Allen especially at the same point in their careers.  Herbert when I watched him a few weeks ago didn’t impress.   Who else?   

I find it funny that Hurts is getting MVP consideration when Fields is basically outplaying him with a fraction of the supporting cast. Can you imagine Fields playing for Buffalo or Philly? They would be undefeated.

[adam]

I also can't believe the media is still saying they would pick Lawrence over Fields. Supposedly the Jaguars have a much better roster, yet they only have one more win than the Bears. 

It is also crazy to think that Fields has 8 rushing TDs (8th) and is 7th in the NFL in rushing yards and he missed a game.

Once you take those stats into account, Fields ends up as the best QB.

2nd Year QBs:
Fields 21 TDs, 11 TOs, 7.5 Y/A Passing, 7.1 Y/A Rushing
Lawrence 20 TDs, 12 TOs, 6/8 Y/A, 4.9 Y/A
Mills 12 TDs, 12 TOs, 6.5 Y/A, 2.2 Y/A
Jones 8 TDs, 8 TOs, 7.3 Y/A, 2.9 Y/A
Wilson 5 TDs, 6 TOs, 6.8 Y/A, 3.9 Y/A
Lance 0 TDs, 1 TO, 6.3 Y/A. 4/2 Y/A

[AZ54]

19 hours ago, adam said:

I find it funny that Hurts is getting MVP consideration when Fields is basically outplaying him with a fraction of the supporting cast. Can you imagine Fields playing for Buffalo or Philly? They would be undefeated.

100% truth.  

[AZ54]

19 hours ago, adam said:

I also can't believe the media is still saying they would pick Lawrence over Fields. Supposedly the Jaguars have a much better roster, yet they only have one more win than the Bears. 

It is also crazy to think that Fields has 8 rushing TDs (8th) and is 7th in the NFL in rushing yards and he missed a game.

Once you take those stats into account, Fields ends up as the best QB.

2nd Year QBs:
Fields 21 TDs, 11 TOs, 7.5 Y/A Passing, 7.1 Y/A Rushing
Lawrence 20 TDs, 12 TOs, 6/8 Y/A, 4.9 Y/A
Mills 12 TDs, 12 TOs, 6.5 Y/A, 2.2 Y/A
Jones 8 TDs, 8 TOs, 7.3 Y/A, 2.9 Y/A
Wilson 5 TDs, 6 TOs, 6.8 Y/A, 3.9 Y/A
Lance 0 TDs, 1 TO, 6.3 Y/A. 4/2 Y/A

People don't like to admit they were wrong, especially on things they said publicly.  The passing numbers haven't been there yet and only Bears fans really know the details of the improvement in Fields.  We can see the improved pocket presence, faster reading of the defense, better throwing mechanics, and all those things done while the WR corps and Oline have been rotating players in/out all season long.  

[lemonej]

2 hours ago, AZ54 said:

People don't like to admit they were wrong, especially on things they said publicly.  The passing numbers haven't been there yet and only Bears fans really know the details of the improvement in Fields.  We can see the improved pocket presence, faster reading of the defense, better throwing mechanics, and all those things done while the WR corps and Oline have been rotating players in/out all season long.  

Agreed and the other thing he has improved on, is looking to pass before running. He has made some nice completions on the run in recent games.

[Stinger226]

The problem is we keep losing, once we win games , everyone will take notice. When we beat NE, they started noticing, but once we started the losing streak that went away.

[AZ54]

I was watching The Score on Youtube and they asked the question if you were starting a franchise today which NFL QB would you choose over Justin Fields.  He had 4 he'd take:  Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, and Herbert.   

I disagree on Burrow and Herbert.  I've watched both play this year and if I hadn't been watching Justin play all year or, if this were our typical/historical QB discussion I'd take any of them. 

After what I've seen with Burrow and Herbert under pressure they aren't offering anything close to what Fields does.  IMO we could swap with Allen who just has special arm talent and can run.   Mahomes too has special arm talent and his mobility is very good.   

Herbert is very good on the intermediate/deep routes as a pocket passer.  I think he's still developing at reading things which is normal.  If you look at the NFL Live clip it's obvious that he's not elevating his offense in the same manner Fields is despite similar protection and some WR issues.  That's despite the fact he's in his 3rd season in that offense. 

I think Burrow's strength lies in his ability to read, make quick release passes.  In this aspect he's much better than Fields.  He doesn't have the best arm but he's accurate on the short/intermediate and good enough on the deep stuff that a player like Ja'Maar Chase can adjust to and win.  Again I'm sticking with the upside of a younger and improving Fields even though right now Burrow is the better QB.  

670 the Score:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGCFGZJMGSM

NFL Live Herbert starts at 2min:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N__tQJLP_Y

 

[adam]

Interesting comparison:

Thru 12 Games
159-270, 1870, 58.9%, 7 TD 10 INT
156-253, 1896, 61.6%, 13 TD 10 INT

This is Fields last year compared to this year thru 12 games (before the Eagles game).

As much as we see progress, the results, outside of the scrambles and rushing, is almost exactly the same. This seems like a red flag. I know the eye test looks different, but at the end of the day it comes down to the results. 

I did not realize his passing stats would look this similar with two different schemes and play callers. The increase in TDs is promising, but it would've been nice to see improvement in other areas. 

[AZ54]

15 minutes ago, adam said:

Interesting comparison:

Thru 12 Games
159-270, 1870, 58.9%, 7 TD 10 INT
156-253, 1896, 61.6%, 13 TD 10 INT

This is Fields last year compared to this year thru 12 games (before the Eagles game).

As much as we see progress, the results, outside of the scrambles and rushing, is almost exactly the same. This seems like a red flag. I know the eye test looks different, but at the end of the day it comes down to the results. 

I did not realize his passing stats would look this similar with two different schemes and play callers. The increase in TDs is promising, but it would've been nice to see improvement in other areas. 

I still think the breakdown by quarter of the season is a better way to show progress.  The comp% of his last 4 games combined is 68% and  TD:INT 5:4     The 2 INTs against GB are questionable against him especially the last one where you have to try something.  

Fields QB Rating:  2021-73.    2022- 88 and trending upward.   His last 9 games he's averaging 97.8.   I don't put a lot of stock into these ratings because the team surrounding the player has a significant impact on it but the team surrounding Fields is not helping him a whole lot. 

For reference and perspective in 2022 Burrow's rating is 102.5.   Herbert = 91.5, career avg of 95.9.   Mahomes in 2021 had a season rating of 98.5, this year 105.   Lamar Jackson 2022 is 91.1   

[adam]

Fields leads the league in sacks at 46, and is tied for 8th in INTs with 10 (only Prescott has worse INT%). I hope he can improve on these in the last 3 weeks.

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, adam said:

Fields leads the league in sacks at 46, and is tied for 8th in INTs with 10 (only Prescott has worse INT%). I hope he can improve on these in the last 3 weeks.

I actually think Fields has done an excellent job of avoiding interceptions. the down side is his main criticism is that he holds the ball a little too long to be sure his WR is open, but he has not made a lot of foolish passes.

I have seen balls tipped, receivers fall, or just stand there, but despite the numbers, I don't see Fields as having an interception issue at all.

As for the sacks, you know that is on the OL, because we have the most escapable QB in the league.

Give him a real OL, and WRs (that ones gonna be tough this offseason) and I think you see a dominant next generation QB in Fields.

[adam]

13 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

I actually think Fields has done an excellent job of avoiding interceptions. the down side is his main criticism is that he holds the ball a little too long to be sure his WR is open, but he has not made a lot of foolish passes.

I have seen balls tipped, receivers fall, or just stand there, but despite the numbers, I don't see Fields as having an interception issue at all.

As for the sacks, you know that is on the OL, because we have the most escapable QB in the league.

Give him a real OL, and WRs (that ones gonna be tough this offseason) and I think you see a dominant next generation QB in Fields.

Yep, just trying to be fair and pointing out the good with the bad. Right now, he gets dinged a lot for sacks on his advanced metric QB stats which brings those down a lot. He would be basically top 10 in every metric without them.

[AZ54]

2 hours ago, adam said:

Yep, just trying to be fair and pointing out the good with the bad. Right now, he gets dinged a lot for sacks on his advanced metric QB stats which brings those down a lot. He would be basically top 10 in every metric without them.

It's all fair to note.  He still has many aspects of his game to improve.  It is very difficult to be a good NFL QB.  Our QB history just makes it hard to control our anxiety or paranoia.    

[BearFan PHX]

4 hours ago, adam said:

Yep, just trying to be fair and pointing out the good with the bad. Right now, he gets dinged a lot for sacks on his advanced metric QB stats which brings those down a lot. He would be basically top 10 in every metric without them.

I agree. I think with a different OL he is gonna be top 10 too.

[adam]

After Mayfield's solid game, Fields is back in last for DVOA at -26.6. That stat hates him. 

QBR has him at 16th with a 55.4. 

His QB Rating is 88.3 on the season. 

I hope he can have strong performances to close out the year vs DET and MIN. 

[killakrzydav]

Ole Sunshine is looking solid in Jax

[adam]

13 hours ago, killakrzydav said:

Ole Sunshine is looking solid in Jax

Him and Fields were always 1A and 1B, basically interchangeable since HS. Lawrence has a much better supporting cast (and better weather). However, once the playing field is evened out a little bit, I would not be surprised if they are statistically similar for their careers with Lawrence having better passing stats and Fields having better rushing stats.

[Mongo3451]

What would we be saying about Fields if he didn't emerge as a running phenom?  Would we be beaming about his improvement in the passing game?  I still see that he's slow to read, slow release and throws from a low arm slot.  I also see an improved release time and quicker reads.  What I'm deeply concerned about is his inability to work the middle of the field.  Fields made his bones in college as a pocket passer and certainly believe his progress has been slow to get back to that.  I also don't mind him running 8-10 times a game.  So far, he's not taken any bad hits on designed runs.  He'll also continue to see stacked boxes until he can make a defense pay consistently.  Once he learns to put the safeties on notice, our Superbowl window opens.

[adam]

6 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

What would we be saying about Fields if he didn't emerge as a running phenom?  Would we be beaming about his improvement in the passing game?  I still see that he's slow to read, slow release and throws from a low arm slot.  I also see an improved release time and quicker reads.  What I'm deeply concerned about is his inability to work the middle of the field.  Fields made his bones in college as a pocket passer and certainly believe his progress has been slow to get back to that.  I also don't mind him running 8-10 times a game.  So far, he's not taken any bad hits on designed runs.  He'll also continue to see stacked boxes until he can make a defense pay consistently.  Once he learns to put the safeties on notice, our Superbowl window opens.

I am still not completely sold on Fields, but I am way more sold on him than I was at the start of the year. It is really hard to evaluate him objectively with that OLine and WR corps, it just is. If you watch any videos from the QB School and JT O'Sullivan, Fields is getting to his 3rd read and/or outlet really fast now. He also is making every effort to keep his eyes down the field and only run as a last resort. 

I still don't like that he is getting balls batted down and hitting the backs of helmets. He is too tall for that to happen so much. Then on his dump offs, he needs to put them in a place where the receivers can catch and turn immediately. Then in general, he needs to put some touch or additional air under some of his passes. The pass to Velus was perfect, earlier in the season he would've lasered it in there at a much lower trajectory, making it easier to knock down and harder for Velus to catch it. He needs more drop it in a bucket type of passes, especially to the outside.

I am not too worried about the hits as he seems to understand when he needs to slide and when he is running out of bounds, not to try and squeeze 2 more yards out while taking a hit. He is even tossing the ball out of bounds now instead of taking a sack by running out of bounds. All progress. 

[AZ54]

43 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

What would we be saying about Fields if he didn't emerge as a running phenom?  Would we be beaming about his improvement in the passing game?  I still see that he's slow to read, slow release and throws from a low arm slot.  I also see an improved release time and quicker reads.  What I'm deeply concerned about is his inability to work the middle of the field.  Fields made his bones in college as a pocket passer and certainly believe his progress has been slow to get back to that.  I also don't mind him running 8-10 times a game.  So far, he's not taken any bad hits on designed runs.  He'll also continue to see stacked boxes until he can make a defense pay consistently.  Once he learns to put the safeties on notice, our Superbowl window opens.

I would be.  He's not a finished product by any means but his improvement in the passing game is very noticeable.  

[Stinger226]

His first year was a train wreck with those coaches, it is more fair to consider this  as his rookie year. 3 things that tell me he will be a top 5 QB. He is getting better as the year goes on, he has great work ethic and he loves football. Plus he's the fastest QB in the league with great rushing ability. In 2 years he will be all pro. 

He will improve even if we have the same OL and WR group next year but we know it will be better. Add another # 2 WR,  a vet OC and vet RT . We are still going to be a run heavy O but the passing game will improve to 250 - 275_yrs per game average. We will be Top 12 offense next year.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

 

[BearFan PHX]

On 12/30/2022 at 1:43 AM, Stinger226 said:

His first year was a train wreck with those coaches, it is more fair to consider this  as his rookie year. 3 things that tell me he will be a top 5 QB. He is getting better as the year goes on, he has great work ethic and he loves football. Plus he's the fastest QB in the league with great rushing ability.

Amen. And I think it's going to get better faster than even you are saying. I think he could easily be All Pro next year.

[adam]

52 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

and more TDs than:

Herbert
Jackson
Brady
Prescott

Watching Prescott on TNF, I think Fields is better than him now. If Fields had that O-Line with Elliott/Pollard, Lamb, Brown, Schultz, Gallup, and now TY Hilton he would be close to unstoppable.

Same with Herbert, I am not impressed. He is throwing to Allen, Williams, Palmer, Everett, and Ekeler. 

[BearFan PHX]

To be fair, Rogers has 24 Passing TDs to Field's 16. The reason they can say that is because of the TDs Fields rushed for too.

But you know what? Give the man an OL and someone to catch the ball, and lets see if he isnt every bit as good throwing AND can run like that.