Roster stuff

[AZ54]

Interesting to see the Bears kicking the tires on FB Rakovich.  A knee injury kept him out of the draft/UDFA picture but if healthy he's an intriguing prospect.    There's no way he'd be playing this year so this is clearly a 2023 consideration.   

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Patrick is done for the year.

 

[adam]

3 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Patrick is done for the year.

 

Totally random timing. He was on IR since October. I guess they wanted to see if it would heal without surgery. Sucks that we barely got to see any of him between his thumb and toe injuries.

I don't think the Bears can count on him to be the starting Center next year, so I would expect them to either draft or sign a FA. Otherwise, they will end up in the same spot as this year.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

And this ☹️:  

 

[adam]

12 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

And this ☹️:  

 

Sucks for both, hopefully it doesn't impact them for this game, though Gordon's seemed worse. 

[Stinger226]

Patrick has never proven his worth, it would be a 1.3 mil cap hit for him to walk away. Poles will do that if he finds a better option. Or keep him as a backup. If they draft an OC that may be the case. Ratkovich would be a nice addition, he would bring more than blocking.

[adam]

AJ Klein that came over in the Roquan trade is starting for the Bills today, and looks pretty good. Surprised we waived him. 

[AZ54]

48 minutes ago, adam said:

AJ Klein that came over in the Roquan trade is starting for the Bills today, and looks pretty good. Surprised we waived him. 

He's a good football player but there was no scenario where he was part of the future, and this season is all about evaluating the young players.  Poles did him right by letting him go to a winning team.    

[adam]

1 hour ago, AZ54 said:

He's a good football player but there was no scenario where he was part of the future, and this season is all about evaluating the young players.  Poles did him right by letting him go to a winning team.    

Then why even have him as part of the trade then? 

[Stinger226]

I would say Jack Sanborn changed their thoughts going forward. He turns out to be good. 

[AZ54]

4 hours ago, adam said:

Then why even have him as part of the trade then? 

Good point.  I think there was concern with the gap we have on the roster.  Aside from stingers point about Sanborn they may have gotten good news on the injuries of Adam’s and I think there was another LB injured. 

[adam]

OK fair enough, I just thought it was odd if you were going to waive him immediately anyway. Take a WR or CB instead that might stick to the roster.

[Stinger226]

An interesting tidbit, since Sanborn took over for Roquan, he's the leading tackler in the league. What I like is the  most of his tackles are in front of him, not behind him.

[adam]

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

An interesting tidbit, since Sanborn took over for Roquan, he's the leading tackler in the league. What I like is the  most of his tackles are in front of him, not behind him.

That is cool and goes to show you how expendable Roquan was. Not that he wasn't good, but $18M for that type of LB is an overpay.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

37 minutes ago, adam said:

That is cool and goes to show you how expendable Roquan was. Not that he wasn't good, but $18M for that type of LB is an overpay.

Tackles are a volume stat.  I will say Sanborn has been very impressive for an undrafted free agent. What I don't know is will he ever be anything other than a mediocre back-end starter? So on one hand - nice value for a UDFA - on the other hand, while he has great instincts etc, can those overcome his lack of pure athleticism to make him an above average player - because at the end of the day - they need to upgrade and get a lot more above average talent across the board.  

With that said - I was never on board with paying Roquan the type of money he wanted.  Sanborn has also benefited from the fact that our entire dline is putrid (easily bottom 3 in the league).  But he's a great story and would be awesome if he really is one of those guys who ends up being a top 10 LB (but I'd bet way better odds he is a bottom 10 starter in the long run - which is still great for a UDFA).  

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

Tackles are a volume stat.  I will say Sanborn has been very impressive for an undrafted free agent. What I don't know is will he ever be anything other than a mediocre back-end starter? So on one hand - nice value for a UDFA - on the other hand, while he has great instincts etc, can those overcome his lack of pure athleticism to make him an above average player - because at the end of the day - they need to upgrade and get a lot more above average talent across the board.  

With that said - I was never on board with paying Roquan the type of money he wanted.  Sanborn has also benefited from the fact that our entire dline is putrid (easily bottom 3 in the league).  But he's a great story and would be awesome if he really is one of those guys who ends up being a top 10 LB (but I'd bet way better odds he is a bottom 10 starter in the long run - which is still great for a UDFA).  

this is true. its sad because you love the guy - hes such a Rudy - he works his tail off, hes got everything you want except speed, and in the long run that makes him Hunter Hillenmeyer or Nick Kwitkowski. And like you said thats GREAT value for an UDFA, but not someone you build around. Great depth, and until the roster is complete, a decent placeholder.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

28 minutes ago, DABEARSDABOMB said:

Tackles are a volume stat.  I will say Sanborn has been very impressive for an undrafted free agent. What I don't know is will he ever be anything other than a mediocre back-end starter? So on one hand - nice value for a UDFA - on the other hand, while he has great instincts etc, can those overcome his lack of pure athleticism to make him an above average player - because at the end of the day - they need to upgrade and get a lot more above average talent across the board.  

With that said - I was never on board with paying Roquan the type of money he wanted.  Sanborn has also benefited from the fact that our entire dline is putrid (easily bottom 3 in the league).  But he's a great story and would be awesome if he really is one of those guys who ends up being a top 10 LB (but I'd bet way better odds he is a bottom 10 starter in the long run - which is still great for a UDFA).  

He is the over achiever on a horrible defense.  I would think if they put an elite dline in front of him, his play would only improve.  

[Mongo3451]

30 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

He is the over achiever on a horrible defense.  I would think if they put an elite dline in front of him, his play would only improve.  

This is exactly it.  He is producing at a high level when the gaps aren't as tight as they should be.  And he's fast enough if plays his assignments right.

[AZ54]

43 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

this is true. its sad because you love the guy - hes such a Rudy - he works his tail off, hes got everything you want except speed, and in the long run that makes him Hunter Hillenmeyer or Nick Kwitkowski. And like you said thats GREAT value for an UDFA, but not someone you build around. Great depth, and until the roster is complete, a decent placeholder.

Or he becomes Zach Thomas. Times have changed and with it offenses but we can't so easily dismiss that Sanborn is clearly out performing the veterans on either side of him.  This is a small sample size for Sanborn but Morrow played MLB until 4 weeks ago.  Morrow had a few good games for us too but Sanborn is already going above and beyond that. 

We don't have to look a gift horse in the mouth because the eye test says his game speed is better than his timed speed.  That wasn't the case with Kwit when he was chasing plays outside the numbers. 

2min 34s mark 

    

[adam]

[DABEARSDABOMB]

7 minutes ago, adam said:

Bummer - now to hope the recovery period isn’t like 6 months or something like that and more in the 4-6 weeks and they just don’t want to risk rushing him back. 

[DABEARSDABOMB]

1 hour ago, AZ54 said:

Or he becomes Zach Thomas. Times have changed and with it offenses but we can't so easily dismiss that Sanborn is clearly out performing the veterans on either side of him.  This is a small sample size for Sanborn but Morrow played MLB until 4 weeks ago.  Morrow had a few good games for us too but Sanborn is already going above and beyond that. 

We don't have to look a gift horse in the mouth because the eye test says his game speed is better than his timed speed.  That wasn't the case with Kwit when he was chasing plays outside the numbers. 

2min 34s mark 

    

I like the Zach Thomas comp as a guy who was thought of as below average measurables whose instincts had him way outperform himself.  

[Mongo3451]

It's time to see if Leatherwood has learned anything from our coaches.  In a year and a half, he went from Outland Trophy winner to being cut.  He is prototypical talent, the dirt on him is that his initial punch is too low causing him to be imbalanced.  What he does do well is run block.  In pass pro, he has good feet and assignment recognition, ironically the very traits that Borom lacks.  It was mentioned by someone that maybe he could move inside.  My response to that is; if he can't figure out whether to block the guy to the left or the right as a tackle, he ain't gonna figure it out as a guard.  Borom's brain is stuck in the mud and I don't think it's fixable.  He's going to get someone hurt.

Also time to see Eiselin.  Mustipher has the same issue of NOT knowing the best guy to pickup.

[AZ54]

4 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

It's time to see if Leatherwood has learned anything from our coaches.  In a year and a half, he went from Outland Trophy winner to being cut.  He is prototypical talent, the dirt on him is that his initial punch is too low causing him to be imbalanced.  What he does do well is run block.  In pass pro, he has good feet and assignment recognition, ironically the very traits that Borom lacks.  It was mentioned by someone that maybe he could move inside.  My response to that is; if he can't figure out whether to block the guy to the left or the right as a tackle, he ain't gonna figure it out as a guard.  Borom's brain is stuck in the mud and I don't think it's fixable.  He's going to get someone hurt.

Also time to see Eiselin.  Mustipher has the same issue of NOT knowing the best guy to pickup.

Agreed.  Once DEs knew Borom's weakness and attacked it regularly he lost his rhythm.   I'm am miles away from an expert on blocking but when he was in the game Sunday he looked out of sync as in upper body/lower body not in line with each other. 

[Stinger226]

2 hours ago, AZ54 said:

Agreed.  Once DEs knew Borom's weakness and attacked it regularly he lost his rhythm.   I'm am miles away from an expert on blocking but when he was in the game Sunday he looked out of sync as in upper body/lower body not in line with each other. 

I think they already know Borom will never be a competent starter and that's why they have Reiff playing. Being Leatherwood had mono maybe his strength just isnt up to par yet. The fact Poles invested some money in him, I expect to see him probably after the bye. 

As far as the OL going forward I think he sticks with Jones at LT, Whitehair stays at LG and Jenkins will still be here at RG. I think Poles brings in a vet OC, preferable Pocic and a draft pick to compete with Leatherwood at RT.  Carter I think is being groomed to take over for Whitehair but that is probably 1 and 1/2 yrs away. The biggest trait with young players is the necessity to get stronger and that goes for Jones to. Poles prospects may all turn to crap but I think its going to take next yr to prove their value or replace.