Bears /2023

[Stinger226]

A bunch of different threads mention our future going forward so I thought I was just going to put here . Trying to list (IMO) core players, 2023 starters, and who wont be back. 

I start with the D and change subject matter as we move forward.

DBs:  EJac, he will be 30 with a cap hit of 17 mil and a dead money hit of 9.5 if you move on from him. I think he stays one more yr. He has played well this yr, not sure he's worth 17 mil                but they have a better dead money situation in 2024  (5.5 mil.) if they want to move on.

          Jaylon Johnson, our best corner costs 1.7 mil, and in 2024 , 2 mil, he wont be going anywhere but not sure he has proven to be a blue chip player just quite yet. 

           Kindle Vidor, still has to prove himself but for 1 mil next yr will be keep at a depth piece . He is a starter for now but they will try to upgrade his spot. 

           Gordon and Brisker are future stars and will progress with positive plays. both cost around 1.5 in 2023.

           Dane Cruikshank, DHC, are vet players that  are signed for next yr but can be cut at anytime.

           Jaylon Jones, Lamar Jackson, and Josh Blackwell are young players that are signed for next yr but need to improve to get a roster spot. 

E Jac, Johnson, Gordon, and Brisker are 2023 starters and core players. Vidor needs to get better, DHC could stay on the roster for his ST play as a backup. 

             I think Cruikshank gets replaced because he's to hurt and has never proved himself. 

           

[BearFan PHX]

dont sleep on Morrow - his elite speed provides coverage down the deep middle which is crucial for the Cover 2 - just like Urlacher did.

[adam]

Jackson has become the leader of the defense with the loss of Hicks, Mack, Quinn, and Smith. I think they will extend him for a few years to see this thing out. If we can lock him up and Johnson up with extensions, the Bears will have 4 of their 5 secondary starters locked up for 3-4 more years, then they can add one more via FA or the draft. That is very rare to have that type of continuity in any unit.

I am not sold on Vildor being anything but a sub. I am fine with our subs and ST players like DHC and Cruikshank.

[BearFan PHX]

Yeah but if Roquan wasn't worth $20 Million, how is EJac worth $19 Million?

We are not used to seeing good players get cut here, but we arent used to winning either. Ejac is a good player, maybe a 12 or 13 Mil a year type guy. Might we keep him one more year becasue we have too may holes to fill, and a surplus of cap room? Maybe. But I dont see him as a 2024 starter at all. Not at this $ anyway.

[adam]

4 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

Yeah but if Roquan wasn't worth $20 Million, how is EJac worth $19 Million?

We are not used to seeing good players get cut here, but we arent used to winning either. Ejac is a good player, maybe a 12 or 13 Mil a year type guy. Might we keep him one more year becasue we have too may holes to fill, and a surplus of cap room? Maybe. But I dont see him as a 2024 starter at all. Not at this $ anyway.

The highest paid Safety in the league makes $19M (Derwin James). If he is looking for that kind of money, then yeah, definitely trade for assets. However, he signed a heavily backloaded contract, but his AAV is $14.6M, which is 7th in the league. He is signed thru 2024 so there are several windows to move on from him. I am just saying for at least next season, there is easily enough cap room to keep his salary on the team (since it is already accounted for). The decision will more than likely come after next season when he has one year left on his deal. There will be several similar Safeties due new contracts before Jackson is due (Bates, Poyer, Hyde, Ward, Amos, Bell), so they will set the market for his age group.

[Stinger226]

Yes EJac is not worth his money, but he is playing well and this defense is based on TOs and he is the only one consistently doing that. He is signed thru 2024, so I think he is around next yr and then depending on the depth behind him,  decide to replace him. If they draft a FS this yr in the top 4 rounds, he may have his fate decided for him in 2024. I do not think they are just going to axe him because of money. We have plenty to do what Poles wants to do. I do believe, when they go to give Fields money, his contract will be gone but that is in two yrs. 

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, adam said:

The highest paid Safety in the league makes $19M (Derwin James). If he is looking for that kind of money, then yeah, definitely trade for assets. However, he signed a heavily backloaded contract, but his AAV is $14.6M, which is 7th in the league. He is signed thru 2024 so there are several windows to move on from him. I am just saying for at least next season, there is easily enough cap room to keep his salary on the team (since it is already accounted for). The decision will more than likely come after next season when he has one year left on his deal. There will be several similar Safeties due new contracts before Jackson is due (Bates, Poyer, Hyde, Ward, Amos, Bell), so they will set the market for his age group.

I understand that Pace got the better of the deal, but if Im Poles, all I see is a guy scheduled to count $18 and $19 Million against the cap for two years, and an associated dead money cost, along with whatever trade value he can get.

Its true that Poles has a LOT of holes to fill, so EJac might get one more year, and Ejac doesn't suck, at some price hes worth keeping. But he wont play out the next two years of his contract in Chicago barring a renegotiation that brings his cap number more into line.

I'd take a 2nd or a 3rd for him.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

I understand that Pace got the better of the deal, but if Im Poles, all I see is a guy scheduled to count $18 and $19 Million against the cap for two years, and an associated dead money cost, along with whatever trade value he can get.

Its true that Poles has a LOT of holes to fill, so EJac might get one more year, and Ejac doesn't suck, at some price hes worth keeping. But he wont play out the next two years of his contract in Chicago barring a renegotiation that brings his cap number more into line.

I'd take a 2nd or a 3rd for him.

My thought is what other team would trade for the contract and give up good draft capital? The options are to rework the deal or release him.  

[adam]

Here is the thing with Jackson, the Bears have all this cap space WITH his cap hit on the books. They already have over $125M for 2023. That is a ton of money. Jackson is $17M against the cap, Whitehair is $14M, Jones is $7.4M, and then Patrick at $5.3M. So unless you can get a better player than Jackson for $7.5M (cap savings), then you might as well stick with him for at least 2023. In 2024, his dead cap goes down to $5.5M which makes it much more appealing for both side (Bears with less dead money, new team with less to pay). 

[Mongo3451]

26 minutes ago, adam said:

Here is the thing with Jackson, the Bears have all this cap space WITH his cap hit on the books. They already have over $125M for 2023. That is a ton of money. Jackson is $17M against the cap, Whitehair is $14M, Jones is $7.4M, and then Patrick at $5.3M. So unless you can get a better player than Jackson for $7.5M (cap savings), then you might as well stick with him for at least 2023. In 2024, his dead cap goes down to $5.5M which makes it much more appealing for both side (Bears with less dead money, new team with less to pay). 

100% spot on.  Also, nobody is desperate enough to give a 2nd or 3rd for Eddie.  Keep him on the books and hope he performs again.  He still doesn't want to hit anyone, but if we upgrade the DL he won't have to.  I think we are no longer in the market to trade any assets, as we are not deep enough to absorb any more losses.  From here on out, we build with what we have.

[BearFan PHX]

49 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

My thought is what other team would trade for the contract and give up good draft capital? The options are to rework the deal or release him.  

well a lot of his contract would go against our cap, so for a trading team hed be a reasonable price.

$13 Million and $14 Million for them for each of the 2 remaining years. We eat the rest.

[Stinger226]

3 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

well a lot of his contract would go against our cap, so for a trading team hed be a reasonable price.

$13 Million and $14 Million for them for each of the 2 remaining years. We eat the rest.

I think he is here next yr and then 2024 is a crap shoot. I think they think that next yr will be a playoff run, so creating more holes doesnt seem logical. NOW if they draft one in the first 4 rounds and plan on him taking his place, maybe next yr at the trade deadline for a 7th round pick. We simply arent hurting for cap space.

[BearFan PHX]

3 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

I think he is here next yr and then 2024 is a crap shoot. I think they think that next yr will be a playoff run, so creating more holes doesnt seem logical. NOW if they draft one in the first 4 rounds and plan on him taking his place, maybe next yr at the trade deadline for a 7th round pick. We simply arent hurting for cap space.

I agree that he may well be here next year if we cant find a good trade, or we need him as a stopgap hole filler. I dont think that we will be more of a playoff team in 2023 than 2024 etc so Im not sure i buy that argument. Also, we definitely are not hurting for cap space, but Poles will want to be smart with what he does spend so we dont end up back where we started.

I think if someone will give a 3rd rounder for him, we will trade him next year. This staff clearly isn't shy about starting rookies.

[Stinger226]

Most of what you say it true, but as of right now, there is no replacement on the team. If he drafts a FS high, then they will find away to get rid of him. Quinn was non productive, Roquan wasnt going to give in to Poles offer, so that made them available. I absolutely think since Fields is ready to fly that they will try to win next year. 

Do you think Whitehair is in jeopardy? It costs 8.3 to cut him next yr. They are keeping J. Carter on the roster as a rookie, with little playing time. If at the beginning of next yr, Carter starts to shine, they may change but, I dont think having all young players on the line will solidify the line going forward. Jenkins, Jones, Borom , Leatherwood are all young and you need some vets to stabilize the line. Cody will be 31 but if he plays well this yr, he stays here. A 31 yr old with a 8.3 cap hit may be hard to trade or cut. What he brings in during the offseason will dictate some of it. 

[AZ54]

2 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

Most of what you say it true, but as of right now, there is no replacement on the team. If he drafts a FS high, then they will find away to get rid of him. Quinn was non productive, Roquan wasnt going to give in to Poles offer, so that made them available. I absolutely think since Fields is ready to fly that they will try to win next year. 

Do you think Whitehair is in jeopardy? It costs 8.3 to cut him next yr. They are keeping J. Carter on the roster as a rookie, with little playing time. If at the beginning of next yr, Carter starts to shine, they may change but, I dont think having all young players on the line will solidify the line going forward. Jenkins, Jones, Borom , Leatherwood are all young and you need some vets to stabilize the line. Cody will be 31 but if he plays well this yr, he stays here. A 31 yr old with a 8.3 cap hit may be hard to trade or cut. What he brings in during the offseason will dictate some of it. 

He stays through the offseason until we know what we have.  I can see him easily being a post training camp cut or trade if one of the young OGs steps up.  

[Stinger226]

Clearly Poles is going young but a few bigger contracts, older players still remain. I have no doubt they will all be replaced but not until there is a clear answer to replace them. We have no problem with cap money, that is usually the reason teams drop players before their time because they need the money.

[Stinger226]

LBers:   Sanborn, Weatherford, are the only two LBers that have contracts for next yr. 

              Sanborn appears to have earned a job. 

               Weatherford will get a chance to earn some time, maybe not this year. 

                Morrow is not signed for next yr but I think he has earned a contract as he has played well. 

                Matt Adams has had some injury issues but has played well when on the field. He may be brought next year for depth.

                Joe Thomas is just a veteran depth piece and dont think he will be back next year.

                 In 2023 I think they bring in one Vet and draft one and will go from there.

                    Bobby Okereke/LB from the Colts that learned under Flus and is one of the top tacklers in the league. He may be brought in, but that probably means Morrow 

                                                   would not be back.

If Sanborn is the real deal, then Poles will put a good body next to him and add for depth. SLB doesnt play that many snaps to have to get a big time backers to play there.   

[Stinger226]

Pass rushers:   on the roster for next year.

                          Al-Q Muhammad , a rotational piece that will be back unless we can upgrade.

                           Dominique Robinson, a rookie with upside.

                           Travis Gipson is signed for next year but I doubt they bring him back unless he starts adding some stats. 

                            In FAgency : There are quite a few names, not sure how many are impact players thou. (28 or younger)

                                                   Yannick Ngakoue  6.5 sacks

                                                    Lorenzo Carter     3.5 sacks

                                                     Samson Ebukam   3.5 sacks

                                                     DuWanye Smoot    5.0 Sacks

                            Draft:             Will Anderson/Ala

                                                   Myles Murphy/ Cle

                                                    Tyree Wilson/ Texas Tech

                                                     Isiah Foskey/ND

                                                     Andre Carter/Army          

                                                      Jared Verse/Flor St

                                                       Zack Harrison/ Ohio St

                                 I think they both draft one high and add one in FA. The jury is still out on Taco Charleston and Gerri Green. Sammis Reyes is a project. 

                       

 

                                                      

                      

[adam]

9 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

Pass rushers:   on the roster for next year.

                          Al-Q Muhammad , a rotational piece that will be back unless we can upgrade.

                           Dominique Robinson, a rookie with upside.

                           Travis Gipson is signed for next year but I doubt they bring him back unless he starts adding some stats. 

                            In FAgency : There are quite a few names, not sure how many are impact players thou. (28 or younger)

                                                   Yannick Ngakoue  6.5 sacks

                                                    Lorenzo Carter     3.5 sacks

                                                     Samson Ebukam   3.5 sacks

                                                     DuWanye Smoot    5.0 Sacks

                            Draft:             Will Anderson/Ala

                                                   Myles Murphy/ Cle

                                                    Tyree Wilson/ Texas Tech

                                                     Isiah Foskey/ND

                                                     Andre Carter/Army          

                                                      Jared Verse/Flor St

                                                       Zack Harrison/ Ohio St

                                 I think they both draft one high and add one in FA. The jury is still out on Taco Charleston and Gerri Green. Sammis Reyes is a project. 

   

Without Mack and Quinn, Gipson does not look near as good. He is definitely not a starter, but more of a rotational guy. Robinson still has room to grow. I agree that I think they draft one and sign one via FA. We need some balance between vets and young guys as they build this roster out.

[scs787]

Gipson has actually been the best of the bunch, but that's not really saying much.

Gipson- 2 sacks/ 3 TFL/ 8 QB hits

AQ- 1 sack/ 0 TFL/ 2 QB hits

Dom- 1.5 sacks/ 2 TFL/ 2 QB hits

[adam]

2 minutes ago, scs787 said:

Gipson has actually been the best of the bunch, but that's not really saying much.

Gipson- 2 sacks/ 3 TFL/ 8 QB hits

AQ- 1 sack/ 0 TFL/ 2 QB hits

Dom- 1.5 sacks/ 2 TFL/ 2 QB hits

Gipson had one monster game, against GB, with 2 sacks, 2 TFL, 3 QB Hits.

In the other 9 games, he has been basically a low end rotational guy: 0 sacks, 1 TFL, 5 QB Hits

[AZ54]

14 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

Pass rushers:   on the roster for next year.

                          Al-Q Muhammad , a rotational piece that will be back unless we can upgrade.

                           Dominique Robinson, a rookie with upside.

                           Travis Gipson is signed for next year but I doubt they bring him back unless he starts adding some stats. 

                            In FAgency : There are quite a few names, not sure how many are impact players thou. (28 or younger)

                                                   Yannick Ngakoue  6.5 sacks

                                                    Lorenzo Carter     3.5 sacks

                                                     Samson Ebukam   3.5 sacks

                                                     DuWanye Smoot    5.0 Sacks

                            Draft:             Will Anderson/Ala

                                                   Myles Murphy/ Cle

                                                    Tyree Wilson/ Texas Tech

                                                     Isiah Foskey/ND

                                                     Andre Carter/Army          

                                                      Jared Verse/Flor St

                                                       Zack Harrison/ Ohio St

                                 I think they both draft one high and add one in FA. The jury is still out on Taco Charleston and Gerri Green. Sammis Reyes is a project. 

                       

 

                                                      

                      

I believe 5 juries have already voted no on Charleton:  Dallas, Miami, KC, and Pitt.   I'd rather see Reyes get some experience and see if he has anything at all to offer than waste snaps on Charleton.  Granted Taco at least has a bit of performance on his resume with 46 tackles and 11 sacks so he's better as a drop-in replacement for a few weeks.  

[Mongo3451]

To fix the DL; DaRon Payne is an UFA, get him.  Do the trade with the Colts for their 1, 2 and Buckner.  Give Buckner an extension.  Draft Miles Murphy at 14 for the DE.  Having Payne and Buckner will cost around 36 mil a year, so the yearly hit will have to be offset somehow.

For the OL fix, I previously stated we should add 2 upgrades.  I'm now suggesting 3.  Tevin Jenkins cannot be trusted.  Any player that's been medically cleared to play, shouldn't go to the coach and tell him he's available in an emergency. (he wasn't on the injury report) Either clock in or clock out.  Free agency is loaded at guard and center and the draft is above average.  Great year to upgrade the OL.  

That leaves us with an important piece for Justin.  Big play WR is a must.  I have it on good knowledge that Claypool is conflicted on his love of the game and what his priorities are.  My best friend spent seven days with Steelers during mini camp.  Mike Tomlin brought in Brandon Marshall to tutor Claypool.  As of now, out is said that Claypool works harder on his social media as an influencer than he does as a player.  This trend was fostered through his friendship with Ju Ju.  Tomlin could wait to get rid of him.  Tomlin is not innocent either.  He brought his buddy to be OC because he got his son into a college football program in a little nepotism did pro quo.  The OC is put out his depth which did not help Claypool.  So it's a coin flip as to whether he'll ever make it.  So, who's a deep threat, jump ball getter in the draft?  He's looking like round 2-4 though.

That's enough for now.  Let me have it.

 

[AZ54]

1 hour ago, Mongo3451 said:

To fix the DL; DaRon Payne is an UFA, get him.  Do the trade with the Colts for their 1, 2 and Buckner.  Give Buckner an extension.  Draft Miles Murphy at 14 for the DE.  Having Payne and Buckner will cost around 36 mil a year, so the yearly hit will have to be offset somehow.

For the OL fix, I previously stated we should add 2 upgrades.  I'm now suggesting 3.  Tevin Jenkins cannot be trusted.  Any player that's been medically cleared to play should go to the coach and tell him he's available in an emergency.  Either clock in or clock out.  Free agency is loaded at guard and center and the draft is above average.  Great year to upgrade the OL.  

That leaves us with an important piece for Justin.  Big play WR is a must.  I have it on good knowledge that Claypool is conflicted on his love of the game and what his priorities are.  My best friend spent seven days with Steelers during mini camp.  Mike Tomlin brought in Brandon Marshall to tutor Claypool.  As of now, out is said that Claypool works harder on his social media as an influencer than he does as a player.  This trend was fostered through his friendship with Ju Ju.  Tomlin could wait to get rid of him.  Tomlin is not innocent either.  He brought his buddy to be OC because he got his son into a college football program in a little nepotism did pro quo.  The OC is put out his depth which did not help Claypool.  So it's a coin flip as to whether he'll ever make it.  So, who's a deep threat, jump ball getter in the draft?  He's looking like round 2-4 though.

That's enough for now.  Let me have it.

 

Teven Jenkins did go to Flus and told him he didn't think he was good enough to play but that he wanted to be available in case of an injury...he'd play.  Because of that Jenkins was active for that game.   

[Mongo3451]

9 hours ago, AZ54 said:

Teven Jenkins did go to Flus and told him he didn't think he was good enough to play but that he wanted to be available in case of an injury...he'd play.  Because of that Jenkins was active for that game.   

Sorry, typo on Jenkins.  Fixed it.