I'm Worried About Winning

[BearFan PHX]

I'm worried about winning,

Even with our depleted roster, you can feel this team getting stronger. Pretty soon those bad 4th quarter play calls aren't going to be enough to hold back this team and keep them from beating someone. Probably the Lions and/or the Vikings. But with Fields being such a hero, cant you see some kind of miracle against the Eagles or the Bills?

I am thrilled at the growth and cant wait to see what Fields and this staff can do with a proper roster.

But I want that #2 pick. It means so much more than the #5 in terms of getting Jalen Carter, or some really sweet bundle of first round picks, the kind we used to be on the giving side of.

It's hard not to want the team to win. Of course it's because I want them to WIN in the larger context, so it's not disloyal or anything. But still, I am actually worried they are gonna bust out too soon.

Four more games and then our future can start.

Thoughts?

[AZ54]

I too like having the higher draft pick but with this team playing with high effort I can see the need for the players to get a win just to feel better about the hard work they've put in.  You need look no further than what happened in Detroit once they got a 2nd win and went on a winning streak to see what that means to players.  

[adam]

Just think if the refs called a fair game? They would be at least 5-8 if not 6-7 at this point without any other changes to performance.

I still don't think they can beat Philly, but BUF, MIN, and DET are all winnable games. 

 

Did anyone else notice how well Josh Blackwell played against GB? I would rather have him starting along side Johnson, then Gordon in the slot. With Brisker back and DHC filling the centerfielder role, the secondary is not that bad. 

[AZ54]

32 minutes ago, adam said:

Just think if the refs called a fair game? They would be at least 5-8 if not 6-7 at this point without any other changes to performance.

I still don't think they can beat Philly, but BUF, MIN, and DET are all winnable games. 

 

Did anyone else notice how well Josh Blackwell played against GB? I would rather have him starting along side Johnson, then Gordon in the slot. With Brisker back and DHC filling the centerfielder role, the secondary is not that bad. 

I did notice Blackwell, even how well he handled the typical rub routes.  I'd love to see him paired up with our starters, even if it's another rotational role.  

[adam]

9 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

I did notice Blackwell, even how well he handled the typical rub routes.  I'd love to see him paired up with our starters, even if it's another rotational role.  

Might as well see what these practice squad guys can do. Same for our edge guys, we need someone that can get pressures.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

The Bears are my lovable losers. 

Lose baby lose, get that number 2 pick, and pray there is a player that another team over pays for. 

We spent way too many years trading our high picks.  We need to recoup some years of that.  

[BearFan PHX]

Yeah, maybe cycling in more practice squad guys will keep us from winning while developing some players for the future.

I really dont want to win 2 or 3 games now. Even 1 is too many. I NEVER want to feel like this ever again.

[Pixote]

I thought I read on NFL.com that Seattle (with Denver's 1st round pick obtained for Wilson) moved up to the 2nd pick when Denver lost while we were on bye. If that be the case, we will probably drop further soon. The Detroit game will be winnable, and I believe we play the Vikings for the season finale. If the Vikings have nothing to gain with a victory, they may rest all of their key starters for the playoffs.

[Connorbear]

34 minutes ago, Pixote said:

I thought I read on NFL.com that Seattle (with Denver's 1st round pick obtained for Wilson) moved up to the 2nd pick when Denver lost while we were on bye. If that be the case, we will probably drop further soon. The Detroit game will be winnable, and I believe we play the Vikings for the season finale. If the Vikings have nothing to gain with a victory, they may rest all of their key starters for the playoffs.

As of now, winning one more game would get us the 6th pick (unless other teams win as well). The only winnable game I see on the schedule is the Minnesota game if they have nothing to play for and rest their starters. 

Peace

[ASHKUM BEAR]

1 hour ago, Pixote said:

I thought I read on NFL.com that Seattle (with Denver's 1st round pick obtained for Wilson) moved up to the 2nd pick when Denver lost while we were on bye. If that be the case, we will probably drop further soon. The Detroit game will be winnable, and I believe we play the Vikings for the season finale. If the Vikings have nothing to gain with a victory, they may rest all of their key starters for the playoffs.

You are correct. Bears are currently slotted at 3. 

I look at Detroit who has put together a lot of talent and are sitting with the 4th and 15th pick today, then 2nd RD 46th and 60th pick and 3rd 78th. They will be adding 5 more top 100 players. 

Bears might be able to make the turn by landing a pick that can be traded into many extra picks.

[Mongo3451]

1 hour ago, Pixote said:

I thought I read on NFL.com that Seattle (with Denver's 1st round pick obtained for Wilson) moved up to the 2nd pick when Denver lost while we were on bye.

To simplify things; any team that ties with us will draft ahead of us due to strength of schedule.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

6 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

 

I'm worried about winning,

 

I have a strong opinion about winning that I’ll save for now.  I’ll just say from where I sit, I see Justin and many of the players wanting to win.  Justin has said he’s not accustomed to losing and if he were asked to lose or suspected it was happening on purpose,  he might break his will to do better for our team in the future. And frankly I wouldn’t blame him.  For what it’s worth, I hope they win all the rest of the games.

[adam]

18 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

You are correct. Bears are currently slotted at 3. 

I look at Detroit who has put together a lot of talent and are sitting with the 4th and 15th pick today, then 2nd RD 46th and 60th pick and 3rd 78th. They will be adding 5 more top 100 players. 

Bears might be able to make the turn by landing a pick that can be traded into many extra picks.

I don't think anyone suspected that the Rams pick would be a top 5 pick in the Stafford trade. I am sure when they were figuring it would be in the mid-20s as a projected playoff team. So Detroit got SUPER lucky for that one. Otherwise, they would have a decent team with several picks, but Goff as their QB. Now they have the luxury of getting a young QB with the Rams pick, while keeping Goff on the roster until that young QB is ready. 

The Bears have their QB, and that is ultimately the best position to be in, so unless you are getting basically a sure fire Pro Bowler in the top 5, you definitely would love to trade down and get some additional picks to upgrade the entire roster.

[adam]

5 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

I have a strong opinion about winning that I’ll save for now.  I’ll just say from where I sit, I see Justin and many of the players wanting to win.  Justin has said he’s not accustomed to losing and if he were asked to lose or suspected it was happening on purpose,  he might break his will to do better for our team in the future. And frankly I wouldn’t blame him.  For what it’s worth, I hope they win all the rest of the games.

Even with the projected team they were supposed to have, I don't think they were going to beat PHI or BUF. However, MIN and DET are both winnable games. I would not be surprised if they win 2 of their last 4. If they win out, that would be pretty epic considering both teams are the current 1-seeds in each conference. Wins like that would be well worth the drop in draft positioning. 

[Stinger226]

If the players put it together and win some games, that just means that some of these players are getting better and that is not a bad thing. It would be nice with a high pick , but if we win a few and still hit the top 10, Im ok with that. I seen where PFF listed our OL as the 10th best right now. They are getting better. Granted  its with  a limited passing game but its progress. The lack of a pass rush definitely puts us in a bad way to try to win, but if we have a few TOs, that could change a game to. I want the high pick but it just turns out like it is. Being Minny isnt that good, they will be trying to win that last game. They are beatable.

[AZ54]

3 hours ago, adam said:

I don't think anyone suspected that the Rams pick would be a top 5 pick in the Stafford trade. I am sure when they were figuring it would be in the mid-20s as a projected playoff team. So Detroit got SUPER lucky for that one. Otherwise, they would have a decent team with several picks, but Goff as their QB. Now they have the luxury of getting a young QB with the Rams pick, while keeping Goff on the roster until that young QB is ready. 

The Bears have their QB, and that is ultimately the best position to be in, so unless you are getting basically a sure fire Pro Bowler in the top 5, you definitely would love to trade down and get some additional picks to upgrade the entire roster.

Detroit being Detroit I have a feeling they'll just stick with Goff.  I've already seen media folks discussing it and how he's their QB of the future.   I'd be glad if they did because Goff is a Decepticon and sooner or later he'll revert to himself.  

[BearFan PHX]

16 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

I have a strong opinion about winning that I’ll save for now.  I’ll just say from where I sit, I see Justin and many of the players wanting to win.  Justin has said he’s not accustomed to losing and if he were asked to lose or suspected it was happening on purpose,  he might break his will to do better for our team in the future. And frankly I wouldn’t blame him.  For what it’s worth, I hope they win all the rest of the games.

I dont agree that Justin's will to win will be broken by more losses this season.

I do tho totally understand how gross it is to want to lose games. i NEVER want to feel like this again. But of course it's not that i dont care, or like losing, it's that i want to win, consistently going forward in a sustainable way.

It's easy to call out someone who is saying they dont want to win (and you were very careful not to do that, so I appreciate the respect!) but there is a difference between a player who only wants a paycheck - we both agree you get rid of that guy immediately - and wanting to win strategically, even if it means some tactical losses.

Anyway, I respect your point of view. Losing sucks. I dont ever want to be here again. But I don't think Fields' fire is at risk here. I am sure Fields understands exactly what is going on, and wants to win super bowls more than he cares if we win 3 games or 4 games this year. Otherwise, youd already have lost him by making the big trades on defense.

But whatever the case, we all want the Bears to be a dominant team and win a lot of games.

[Connorbear]

13 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

I dont agree that Justin's will to win will be broken by more losses this season.

I do tho totally understand how gross it is to want to lose games. i NEVER want to feel like this again. But of course it's not that i dont care, or like losing, it's that i want to win, consistently going forward in a sustainable way.

It's easy to call out someone who is saying they dont want to win (and you were very careful not to do that, so I appreciate the respect!) but there is a difference between a player who only wants a paycheck - we both agree you get rid of that guy immediately - and wanting to win strategically, even if it means some tactical losses.

Anyway, I respect your point of view. Losing sucks. I dont ever want to be here again. But I don't think Fields' fire is at risk here. I am sure Fields understands exactly what is going on, and wants to win super bowls more than he cares if we win 3 games or 4 games this year. Otherwise, youd already have lost him by making the big trades on defense.

But whatever the case, we all want the Bears to be a dominant team and win a lot of games.

This part right here. I want to win a Super Bowl. Winning a couple of meaningless games at the end of this season does nothing to help the team win a Super Bowl. Getting higher draft picks, however, has a real potential to help make that happen. 

Peace

 

[adam]

12 hours ago, AZ54 said:

Detroit being Detroit I have a feeling they'll just stick with Goff.  I've already seen media folks discussing it and how he's their QB of the future.   I'd be glad if they did because Goff is a Decepticon and sooner or later he'll revert to himself.  

It would be so Detroit if they did. Goff is about as average as they come. He is just like most other non-franchise QBs, and is completely dependent on the team/players around him. When LA had a terrible defense, he was 0-7 as a starter. When their defense became elite, he started winning. Now with Detroit. He was 3-10-1 last year, and now 6-7 and they are ready to anoint him as their future QB. It is pretty funny to see. 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

I dont agree that Justin's will to win will be broken by more losses this season.

When I say this I mean if he’s implied to lose (like gets the impression from coaches or players) that he doesn’t need to put in as much effort If they are close in the third or fourth quarter.  It’s one thing to tell him to go out and have fun and learn as much as he can for next year but another is he’s legitimately trying to Will his team to win but told to hold back late in the game.  

  

[Alaskan Grizzly]

1 hour ago, Connorbear said:

This part right here. I want to win a Super Bowl. Winning a couple of meaningless games at the end of this season does nothing to help the team win a Super Bowl. Getting higher draft picks, however, has a real potential to help make that happen. 

Peace

 

1st round picks like Alex Leatherwood, N’Keal Harry and Taco Charlton?  No game is ever “meaningless”.  
 

 

[Connorbear]

4 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

1st round picks like Alex Leatherwood, N’Keal Harry and Taco Charlton?  No game is ever “meaningless”.  
 

 

Point taken. I guess I'm saying there is no difference finishing 3-14 or 5-12 other than draft position (you're not making the playoffs). A better draft position gives you a chance to get a better player or parlay that better pick into other picks. I see the Bears finishing with either 3 or 4 wins giving them a top 6 pick. I'd much rather see that than 5 or 6 wins with a pick between 10 and 15. I would never call for the team to tank. I'm just hoping they play good and lose each game by a few points like they did with several games earlier this year. 

Peace

 

Peace

[Mongo3451]

Gob bless Madden...

[BearFan PHX]

I think 99.9% of the time, losing on purpose is a bad thing to do to your culture. But in year #1 with a new crew that only has half a salary cap and no first rounder to work with, in an obvious rebuild, I think it's OK.

Look at what the Cubs did to win a world series. For several seasons, they spent their money on big name free agents, and then traded them for draft picks mid season. Once theyd amassed enough draft picks they had the youngest team in the league and won the world series. That was by design.

I am 100% sure Justin Fields understands the situation this year.

[Mongo3451]

4 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

I think 99.9% of the time, losing on purpose is a bad thing to do to your culture. But in year #1 with a new crew that only has half a salary cap and no first rounder to work with, in an obvious rebuild, I think it's OK.

Look at what the Cubs did to win a world series. For several seasons, they spent their money on big name free agents, and then traded them for draft picks mid season. Once theyd amassed enough draft picks they had the youngest team in the league and won the world series. That was by design.

I am 100% sure Justin Fields understands the situation this year.

There is a difference between rebuilding and tanking.  Tanking is a dirty deed, while rebuilding is the honorable way.  You never want your players thinking there is an alternative goal to winning.  Never.  Karma is real and it's a bitch.  I love what is ahead of us...