My observations after Eagles game

[BearFan PHX]

every GM has an ideal allocation of cap dollars in mind for each position. We can find free agent for any of those slots at prices we like. Doesnt mean we wont stay with Braxton Jones, but we could cut him or make him a backup and it would cost us basically nothing, a 5th rounder on his rookie deal.

If there is a guy out there thats great and costs what youre willing to s[pend on LOT you get him. In no way am I saying we should enter cap hell. What Im saying is we are wide open with cap space, and can afford players all over the place.

[Stinger226]

5 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

every GM has an ideal allocation of cap dollars in mind for each position. We can find free agent for any of those slots at prices we like. Doesnt mean we wont stay with Braxton Jones, but we could cut him or make him a backup and it would cost us basically nothing, a 5th rounder on his rookie deal.

If there is a guy out there thats great and costs what youre willing to s[pend on LOT you get him. In no way am I saying we should enter cap hell. What Im saying is we are wide open with cap space, and can afford players all over the place.

Of course we can afford it. Orlando Brown should be available this yr. He is probably the only player that is heads above the upside of Jones. So lets say he does that, then what do you do with B Jones ? Put him at RT or LG ?  They are a few other but only a few starter types available this yr. Wynn will be available from NE but he is rated lower than B Jones is. The point Im trying to make is, if he thinks B Jones may end up a 8 yr starter, why just throw that away? Bring in 2 OL vets and fill in at OC and RT and that should lift the play of the rest of the OL . He will use capital to fill tons of other spots over the LT spot. 

[AZ54]

What has Braxton Jones done lately to deserve being replaced?  

https://bearswire.usatoday.com/lists/bears-pff-grades-best-and-worst-performers-in-week-15-loss-eagles/

He keeps grading out as our 2nd best Oline, just behind Jenkins, and he's just a rookie.  I watch Charles Cross, 9th overall, get beat like a drum on several plays every time I see Seattle play.  

"Braxton Jones earned the highest grade for Chicago’s struggling offensive line. According to PFF, Jones didn’t allow a sack and earned high marks in pass protection (73.9) and run blocking (70.1)."    

I understand that's PFF smoke and mirrors grading but in the game I saw Brisker made more mistakes, and costly ones at that,  and nobody is talking about replacing him.  LTs can't make the spectacular play for a loss or turnover.  They just sort of are "there" but they can give up negative plays.   Jones didn't do that against the best defensive front in the NFL yet we need to spend $15-20mil next year to fix.. what?  

Go fix C, RT and then LG.  Then, even if Braxton Jones is exactly the same player as he was in the Eagles game, Justin will be happy in the pocket.  Except there is a high likelihood Jones will improve next season.  I have at least 10 other starting positions to address long before I get to LT as the reason we can't win games.  

[Stinger226]

2 hours ago, AZ54 said:

What has Braxton Jones done lately to deserve being replaced?  

https://bearswire.usatoday.com/lists/bears-pff-grades-best-and-worst-performers-in-week-15-loss-eagles/

He keeps grading out as our 2nd best Oline, just behind Jenkins, and he's just a rookie.  I watch Charles Cross, 9th overall, get beat like a drum on several plays every time I see Seattle play.  

"Braxton Jones earned the highest grade for Chicago’s struggling offensive line. According to PFF, Jones didn’t allow a sack and earned high marks in pass protection (73.9) and run blocking (70.1)."    

I understand that's PFF smoke and mirrors grading but in the game I saw Brisker made more mistakes, and costly ones at that,  and nobody is talking about replacing him.  LTs can't make the spectacular play for a loss or turnover.  They just sort of are "there" but they can give up negative plays.   Jones didn't do that against the best defensive front in the NFL yet we need to spend $15-20mil next year to fix.. what?  

Go fix C, RT and then LG.  Then, even if Braxton Jones is exactly the same player as he was in the Eagles game, Justin will be happy in the pocket.  Except there is a high likelihood Jones will improve next season.  I have at least 10 other starting positions to address long before I get to LT as the reason we can't win games.  

That was the point I was trying to make. Need other spots filled before we get back to LT. Once he gains some strength and experience, he may end up being our best OL.  

[adam]

Whitehair might be another cap casualty. It would create another hole, but he is not worth his cap hit at this point. I never seen a vet miss so many stunts in one game.

[BearFan PHX]

Oh yeah, Im not saying Jones isnt a keeper. Im just saying that he will get no special treatment. Poles will take the best option available. If he thinks that's Jones, then Jones stays. All Im saying is that none of these guys have a get out of jail free card. Everyone is under the microscope. We could have 5 new starters, or 2 new starters on the OL. Anything is possible from this point.

Jones is just another free agent in the eyes of Poles at this point. That's all Im saying.

That we invested a 5th round pick in him wont give him any extra love.

[Mongo3451]

Jones and Jenkins are set.  I wouldn't be surprised if Patrick is our center next year.  Whitehair is not worth 14 mil, so I'm looking to get him to take a cut or be cut.  Leatherwood is worse than my "fatal flaw" commentary, as I watched Greg Gabriel break him down.  I failed to mention that he's waist bending instead of knee bending.  I would try him at left guard and if he can't do that, he's out.  Will Borom ever be good enough?

For next season, give me a massive upgrade at LG and RT and draft our future center.

[Stinger226]

3 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

Jones and Jenkins are set.  I wouldn't be surprised if Patrick is our center next year.  Whitehair is not worth 14 mil, so I'm looking to get him to take a cut or be cut.  Leatherwood is worse than my "fatal flaw" commentary, as I watched Greg Gabriel break him down.  I failed to mention that he's waist bending instead of knee bending.  I would try him at left guard and if he can't do that, he's out.  Will Borom ever be good enough?

For next season, give me a massive upgrade at LG and RT and draft our future center.

That sounds good to me. They know what they have in Borom ( not a starter) ,I think you may be right about asking him to restructure his contract, and if not post June 1 cut that still has 4.2 mil in dead money but saves us 9.9 mil. Elgton Jenkins can play either spot and maybe that can put Tev Jenkins at RT if they want to and grab a stud OC in the draft. This yr they are 4 about average OCs in draft, Stromberg/Ark--Schmitz--Van Pran--Olumwatimi. 2-4 round 

We are not sure yet how Poles is at drafting yet but I do think he knows the OL well enough to get us a starter in the 5th round. So he will know what OC to draft and who to grab in FAgency. I wouldnt mind if he grabs a OC in FAgency , instead of waiting for a rookie to grow at the spot. Pocic, Bradbury, Bozeman, Quisenberry. I would be fine with a OC and RT in FAgency and then draft a OG if you want to push Whitehair out. Dont forget we have J Carter on the roster than Poles liked enough to draft but as with most rookies, he needs to build strength. 

[Mongo3451]

38 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

That sounds good to me. They know what they have in Borom ( not a starter) ,I think you may be right about asking him to restructure his contract, and if not post June 1 cut that still has 4.2 mil in dead money but saves us 9.9 mil. Elgton Jenkins can play either spot and maybe that can put Tev Jenkins at RT if they want to and grab a stud OC in the draft.

They have optims on how they'll do it, but please never mention Tevin Jenkins as a tackle candidate again.  Same deal as Kyle Long.  Leave the stud where he is a stud...

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, Mongo3451 said:

They have optims on how they'll do it, but please never mention Tevin Jenkins as a tackle candidate again.  Same deal as Kyle Long.  Leave the stud where he is a stud...

You're right, someone on the SCORE mentioned the idea today, I wondered if his talent would fit anywhere we needed him.

[AZ54]

1 hour ago, Mongo3451 said:

They have optims on how they'll do it, but please never mention Tevin Jenkins as a tackle candidate again.  Same deal as Kyle Long.  Leave the stud where he is a stud...

I'm in agreement on Tev.    RT has been an issue since the beginning of the OTAs and Tev had a shot and they quickly moved on from it.  I can't see how after being successful inside where they wanted him, and seemingly fought with him over it, would they want to change their mind and move him back out there?   As Bears fans I think we're just conditioned to panic over Oline issues.  

Question for you Mongo:   Why can't Leatherwood improve his technique?  I agree on the waist bending and footwork stuff but to me if he can physically bend his knees and move at the same time he should be able to develop new habits.  I've seen some Olinemen that just can't bend and move well and are just more stiff legged in their movement.  Leno always struck me as one of them where he just couldn't sync his lateral movement and blocking well.  I could be wrong but Leatherwood doesn't seem to have that physical limitation as much as bad or lazy habits because at times he looks the part.   I'm using Leatherwood as an example here because draft season is around the corner and we have to evaluate Oline.  Likewise for FA options.     How do you see the difference between bad habits and dude just can't do it?  

Of course that becomes a harder task once bad habits have set in.  Fields mostly adjusted his throwing mechanics in one offseason, there's still work to be done.   I'm not against moving him inside and he stated that he is simply more comfortable on the left side.  For whatever reason some athletes are like that and he might just be the answer at LG.    

[Mongo3451]

18 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

I'm in agreement on Tev.    RT has been an issue since the beginning of the OTAs and Tev had a shot and they quickly moved on from it.  I can't see how after being successful inside where they wanted him, and seemingly fought with him over it, would they want to change their mind and move him back out there?   As Bears fans I think we're just conditioned to panic over Oline issues.  

Question for you Mongo:   Why can't Leatherwood improve his technique?  I agree on the waist bending and footwork stuff but to me if he can physically bend his knees and move at the same time he should be able to develop new habits.  I've seen some Olinemen that just can't bend and move well and are just more stiff legged in their movement.  Leno always struck me as one of them where he just couldn't sync his lateral movement and blocking well.  I could be wrong but Leatherwood doesn't seem to have that physical limitation as much as bad or lazy habits because at times he looks the part.   I'm using Leatherwood as an example here because draft season is around the corner and we have to evaluate Oline.  Likewise for FA options.     How do you see the difference between bad habits and dude just can't do it?  

Of course that becomes a harder task once bad habits have set in.  Fields mostly adjusted his throwing mechanics in one offseason, there's still work to be done.   I'm not against moving him inside and he stated that he is simply more comfortable on the left side.  For whatever reason some athletes are like that and he might just be the answer at LG.    

Leatherwood can improve.  He has the prototypical physical traits.  It seems he dominated at the collegiate level on pure talent.  As a pro, he's a little soft and late by just a hair.  Players that get beat, over compensate by leaning.  That was greatly noted when Leno was going through his issues.  Leatherwood needs to want it so bad that he hits the fight button and stays there.  Late feet, late hands, weak punch and late ass-set all lead to lack of aggression and confidence. (Both are mental)  If he truly wants to make it, he can and will.  Right now, it doesn't seem so.

[AZ54]

10 hours ago, Mongo3451 said:

Leatherwood can improve.  He has the prototypical physical traits.  It seems he dominated at the collegiate level on pure talent.  As a pro, he's a little soft and late by just a hair.  Players that get beat, over compensate by leaning.  That was greatly noted when Leno was going through his issues.  Leatherwood needs to want it so bad that he hits the fight button and stays there.  Late feet, late hands, weak punch and late ass-set all lead to lack of aggression and confidence. (Both are mental)  If he truly wants to make it, he can and will.  Right now, it doesn't seem so.

Thanks