Trade Status

[adam]

So the Bears had 3 huge trades this year, Mack, Quinn, then Smith. Besides creating a ton of cap space (which is hard to quantify), here is how the other teams are doing so far compared to what the Bears got/have:

LAC - Mack, Wild Card loss, $27.5M AAV for 2 more years.
BAL - Smith, Wild Card loss, $20M AAV for 5 more years.
PHI - Quinn - 9 tackles, 1 sack, 1 game played since November 1st, 2023 UFA

for

Brisker, 2023 - 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th

 

Due to comp picks, the Bears would not have gotten anything if they just let Quinn walk this offseason as they are projected to sign too many to get a comp pick, so getting anything for him was a great deal for the Bears. Since joining the Eagles, Quinn has been a non-factor (it's an even year). 

Mack was very productive for LAC this year, but it really didn't make much of a difference overall. The team won one more game and lost in the WC round of the playoffs. Mack has two more years left with $27.5M AAV. 

Smith was also very productive, but the Ravens also lost in the first round of the playoffs. Smith signed a 5yr deal worth $20M a year and the Ravens still have not re-signed Lamar Jackson. The Ravens have $28M in cap space without a starting QB. 9 QBs make over $40M AAV, and another 5 make over $29.5M. That is 14 QBs over $29.5M. Jackson is going to get at least $40M, which means $60M+ of their cap will be caught up between Lamar and Roquan, and the other 49 will need to fit in under the other $165M.

[Stinger226]

Poles created a lucrative cap situation and put us in the position to get the first pick in the draft by making the defense terrible.

Brisket is going to be an all pro one day. Poles obtained Sanborn to replace Smith w/o loss of production for under 1 mil. We have picks to improve this situation.

[BearFan PHX]

Yeah that's very interesting. I would say the cap space we cleared up was the biggest reason we did it, and even without that in your analysis, it still looks pretty damned good. Good job Poles.

Also throw in Claypool. I still think that's gonna pay dividends in the long run. I think he needs some coaching. He seems very young.

I said aloud to the TV at the end of the Raven's game, "Well Roquan you got your 8 tackles today (5 were assists) but you were in a playoff game and you didnt impact the game with a turnover or a critical stop right when you needed it." That's what $20M+ players are supposed to do. You're supposed to be an integral part of winning the game, not just playing well.

[adam]

35 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

Yeah that's very interesting. I would say the cap space we cleared up was the biggest reason we did it, and even without that in your analysis, it still looks pretty damned good. Good job Poles.

Also throw in Claypool. I still think that's gonna pay dividends in the long run. I think he needs some coaching. He seems very young.

I said aloud to the TV at the end of the Raven's game, "Well Roquan you got your 8 tackles today (5 were assists) but you were in a playoff game and you didnt impact the game with a turnover or a critical stop right when you needed it." That's what $20M+ players are supposed to do. You're supposed to be an integral part of winning the game, not just playing well.

Yep, he had 5 total tackles in the first quarter, then 3 the rest of the game, which interestingly enough corresponded to the Bengals TD scoring drives (2nd and 3rd quarter). 

He also didn't even lead his own team in tackles (Hamilton - 9) or the game leader (Wilson, CIN - 10).  Logan Wilson, LB, 80th highest paid LB in the league out tackling the highest is not a good look Saint Omni.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

Poles knew the assignment.  He razed the house and nailed it.  Not only did he get his hands on the top pick, he has the team sitting 1st or 2nd with open cap space.  That is a great status to see. Williams taking over as team President is even more refreshing, they nailed that too. Listening to him today, I have no doubt he will layout his blueprints and this team will soon be the best franchise in the league not by just having the best loyal fans but having the best stadium and a team that takes hold of the division for good. So trading Mack, Quinn, Smith, and letting Hicks and Goldman walk was tough and I wish them well but the assignment was to rebuild the Bears from ground up. 

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, adam said:

Yep, he had 5 total tackles in the first quarter, then 3 the rest of the game, which interestingly enough corresponded to the Bengals TD scoring drives (2nd and 3rd quarter). 

He also didn't even lead his own team in tackles (Hamilton - 9) or the game leader (Wilson, CIN - 10).  Logan Wilson, LB, 80th highest paid LB in the league out tackling the highest is not a good look Saint Omni.

I remember when he missed a game for some unknown reason. Get the F outta here. Seriously, that is a guy they never should have drafted. They could have had Tremaine Edwards (he went #16) instead of Roquan (at #8) - I can understand thinking that Roquan was a little better maybe, but they were both considered excellent players, and if you KNEW Roquan was a head case, you had to get Edmunds instead if you wanted a LB. Might have even been able to trade down.

Kinda like Trubisky and Mahomes. Damn I'm glad Pace is gone.

[BearFan PHX]

22 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

Poles knew the assignment.  He razed the house and nailed it.  Not only did he get his hands on the top pick, he has the team sitting 1st or 2nd with open cap space.  That is a great status to see. Williams taking over as team President is even more refreshing, they nailed that too. Listening to him today, I have no doubt he will layout his blueprints and this team will soon be the best franchise in the league not by just having the best loyal fans but having the best stadium and a team that takes hold of the division for good. So trading Mack, Quinn, Smith, and letting Hicks and Goldman walk was tough and I wish them well but the assignment was to rebuild the Bears from ground up. 

amen

[Stinger226]

I don't remember all the years since the late 1960s when I started watching the Bears but  is this the first tear it down rebuild I've seen?  I think everything else was reload on the fly?  Maybe when Finks first got here. I do know this is the first time I watched them develop a QB.

[AZ54]

2 hours ago, adam said:

Yep, he had 5 total tackles in the first quarter, then 3 the rest of the game, which interestingly enough corresponded to the Bengals TD scoring drives (2nd and 3rd quarter). 

He also didn't even lead his own team in tackles (Hamilton - 9) or the game leader (Wilson, CIN - 10).  Logan Wilson, LB, 80th highest paid LB in the league out tackling the highest is not a good look Saint Omni.

Saint Omni is sitting on a beach in the Bahamas and is definitely not worried about tackle stats.  

[adam]

12 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

I remember when he missed a game for some unknown reason. Get the F outta here. Seriously, that is a guy they never should have drafted. They could have had Tremaine Edwards (he went #16) instead of Roquan (at #8) - I can understand thinking that Roquan was a little better maybe, but they were both considered excellent players, and if you KNEW Roquan was a head case, you had to get Edmunds instead if you wanted a LB. Might have even been able to trade down.

Kinda like Trubisky and Mahomes. Damn I'm glad Pace is gone.

and guess who is a UFA? Edmunds lol. It would be awesome if the Bear could sign him to something between 12-$15M a year. That would be the max for me for an Offball LB.

How about Adam Shaheen in the 2ND ROUND? Are you serious?

[adam]

I would say every $15M in cap space is probably worth a 2nd rounder. This is basically what the Texans did with Osweiler. So the Bears are looking at $50M in cap savings with their trades, so 3 2nd rounders worth of cap space you can add to the trade value.

[BearFan PHX]

2 hours ago, adam said:

and guess who is a UFA? Edmunds lol. It would be awesome if the Bear could sign him to something between 12-$15M a year. That would be the max for me for an Offball LB.

How about Adam Shaheen in the 2ND ROUND? Are you serious?

 

2 hours ago, adam said:

I would say every $15M in cap space is probably worth a 2nd rounder. This is basically what the Texans did with Osweiler. So the Bears are looking at $50M in cap savings with their trades, so 3 2nd rounders worth of cap space you can add to the trade value.

we've truly had such bad leadership. glad weve cleared the deck. Now Poles needs to show his eye for talent evaluation.

[killakrzydav]

Great trades. Knowing when to fold is so important in life.

[BearFan PHX]

8 minutes ago, killakrzydav said:

Great trades. Knowing when to fold is so important in life.

YES. We have tried so many times over the years to build on the back end of something. Saving the best of something that wasnt very good to begin with.

I was very enthused to hear Bears new President Williams and Poles agree that they want to build something sustainable, not just a flash in the pan. Based on the timeline of these guys, they wont be trading it all to try to win in 2023 either. Good. We will win our share, but we are building the right way. Finally.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

2 hours ago, killakrzydav said:

Knowing when to fold is so important in life.

I remember us talking early on about Poles attempting to make a 'splash' with DT Larry Ogunjobi (who eventually failed his physical) but had to quickly pivot to Justin Jones.  It was mentioned that Pace probably would've had stuck it out and tried everything to get Ogunjobi.  Poles did not.  For what its worth, here's what each player accumulated stats-wise this season:

Ogunjobi:  43 ttkls, 20 solo, 1.5 sacks (in 16 games)

Jones:  45 ttkls, 21 solo, 3 sacks (in 17 games).

 

Jones increased his total number of tackles by 11 the previous year and duplicated his number of sacks (3) from the year prior.

Ogunjobi got the same number of total tackles from the previous year but dropped from 7 sacks that year to his 1.5 this last year.  

 

[BearFan PHX]

18 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

 

Ogunjobi:  43 ttkls, 20 solo, 1.5 sacks (in 16 games)

Jones:  45 ttkls, 21 solo, 3 sacks (in 17 games).

 

Interesting.

I think it goes to show that you never know whether your first choice is really going to outplay your second choice. All things being equal you go with your first choice, but you dont overpay to keep it. You dont get tunnel vision. If people want to say that no one knew whether Trubisky or Mahomes would be better, then fine, dont pay a premium to double down on your bet. Take the guy that falls to you, cuz you really never know.

And in truth, it's gonna be about how you coach them up and use them that matters anyway. Would Mahomes be Mahomes if he had been drafted here? Probably not.

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

I remember us talking early on about Poles attempting to make a 'splash' with DT Larry Ogunjobi (who eventually failed his physical) but had to quickly pivot to Justin Jones.  It was mentioned that Pace probably would've had stuck it out and tried everything to get Ogunjobi.  Poles did not.  For what its worth, here's what each player accumulated stats-wise this season:

Ogunjobi:  43 ttkls, 20 solo, 1.5 sacks (in 16 games)

Jones:  45 ttkls, 21 solo, 3 sacks (in 17 games).

 

Jones increased his total number of tackles by 11 the previous year and duplicated his number of sacks (3) from the year prior.

Ogunjobi got the same number of total tackles from the previous year but dropped from 7 sacks that year to his 1.5 this last year.  

 

Jones ended up being an equal option for much less. I would say Poles expected more than he got either way. If you look at comparable players in the NFL, Jones is a good player, just not a difference maker.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

2 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

If you look at comparable players in the NFL, Jones is a good player, just not a difference maker.

Admittedly I'm not one who completely understands the "3 tech" concept and understand that Jones is not one of those guys. But with what we know about him, wouldn't he be a good option as a rotational player alongside a true 3T?  

[ASHKUM BEAR]

48 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Admittedly I'm not one who completely understands the "3 tech" concept and understand that Jones is not one of those guys. But with what we know about him, wouldn't he be a good option as a rotational player alongside a true 3T?  

From pff, 3T are rarely over 300 and usually on the shorter side and always quick.  Main assignment is to be in the backfield creating havoc.  Here are some player to compare.  Eberflus doesn't mind the non-typical 3T 

Justin Jones 6-3 305 - 5.09 40 yd 

Larry Ogunjobi 6-4 395 - 4.97 40 yd

Deforest Buckner 6-7 295 5.0 40 yd

Tommie Harris 6-3 295 4.78 40 yd

Aaron Donald 6-1 280 4.68 40 yd

[Alaskan Grizzly]

5 minutes ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

From pff, 3T are rarely over 300 and usually on the shorter side and always quick.  Main assignment is to be in the backfield creating havoc.  Here are some player to compare.  Eberflus doesn't mind the non-typical 3T 

Justin Jones 6-3 305 - 5.09 40 yd 

Larry Ogunjobi 6-4 395 - 4.97 40 yd

Deforest Buckner 6-7 295 5.0 40 yd

Tommie Harris 6-3 295 4.78 40 yd

Aaron Donald 6-1 280 4.68 40 yd

Ah, then what was/is Akiem Hicks considered?  I see his draft info listed him as a DE but TB has him currently listed as a DT and he sure did spend a lot of time disrupting the backfield when he played in Chicago.    

[AZ54]

42 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Ah, then what was/is Akiem Hicks considered?  I see his draft info listed him as a DE but TB has him currently listed as a DT and he sure did spend a lot of time disrupting the backfield when he played in Chicago.    

3-tech - quick and get in the gap between the LG and LT fast enough to disrupt the play.  (technically 3-tech applies to either side of the front).   That means if the LG wants to pull, follow him fast enough that the C or LT can't slide over and block you and you are in the backfield staring at the RB.  If the LT pulls toward the RT then disrupt his path.   Doing that enables a LB or DE on the other (strong) side of the play to make the tackle.  Of course if it's a routine pass then get back there and sack the QB.   In Eberflus/Lovie/Tampa 2 is primarily a one-gap D so just get in your gap and own it.  If you can't control that gap, or can't get inside the LOS enough to disrupt the play, then you end up getting washed down the line, or pushed backwards, which is pretty much what you saw all year long.  Further by not disrupting things early in the play you enable blockers to get to the 2nd level and block our LBs.  

What was Akiem Hicks?  Pure power.  Instead of knifing in between Oline he just simply stood up and powered the man in front of him backwards.  At his best he could get guys off balance enough that enabled him to cut around them, or in some cases he just simply took his blocker right back into the QB.  Because he could control his blocker like that he was great at getting off a block to either side to make a tackle.  He was also smart and studied his opponents.  He knew them well enough to tip him off what was going to happen on many plays.  Change of direction wasn't his thing so heading off in the right direction at the snap helped him a lot.  

 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

2 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Ah, then what was/is Akiem Hicks considered?  I see his draft info listed him as a DE but TB has him currently listed as a DT and he sure did spend a lot of time disrupting the backfield when he played in Chicago.    

The Bears did a lot of 3-4 with him.  In nickle, they went 4-3 and he may line up 3t or 5t. 

[ASHKUM BEAR]

Just now, ASHKUM BEAR said:

The Bears played a lot of 3-4 with him at DE.  In nickle, they went 4-3 and he may line up 3t or 5t as he moved all across the line

 

[Alaskan Grizzly]

20 hours ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

The Bears did a lot of 3-4 with him.  In nickle, they went 4-3 and he may line up 3t or 5t. 

Thanks guys (AZ54 too) for the explanation.  Helps somewhat .