Stinger226 Posted March 24, 2023 Report Share Posted March 24, 2023 20 minutes ago, adam said: Poles roster construction has been almost backwards. Did the secondary last year with Brisker/Gordon, now doing LB Corps, did Claypool and now Moore for WRs, but the trenches? We still need some dudes on both sides of the ball, otherwise the LBs and DBs will be useless. He went after McG and Dremont Jones but wouldn't get in a bidding war for them. He has set values for players and avoids over paying them. We haven't seen his backup plan yet. It's still early. Its looks like Le'rel Collins is going to become available. Maybe a choice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixote Posted March 24, 2023 Report Share Posted March 24, 2023 31 minutes ago, Stinger226 said: He went after McG and Dremont Jones but wouldn't get in a bidding war for them. He has set values for players and avoids over paying them. We haven't seen his backup plan yet. It's still early. Its looks like Le'rel Collins is going to become available. Maybe a choice? There has to be a better option. I trust Poles to solve the issues in the trenches. From an article on Fansided" Quote While Collins was a force in the Bengals run game, he was wildly inconsistent in pass protection. Dehner notes in his article that Collins ranked 51st amongst tackles in Pro Football Focus’ pass-blocking grade and pass-blocking grade in true pass sets. For context, Collins finished with a 44.3 pass-block grade, allowing 34 pressures, five sacks, and seven QB hits while committing eight penalties. That’s not the production Cincinnati expected when they signed the soon-to-be 30-year-old to a three-year, $21 million contract last offseason. The fact the Bengals are reportedly ready to move on after one year speaks volumes about Collins’ durability, or lack thereof. He’s played a full season twice in eight years, and missed the entire 2020 season after undergoing hip surgery. https://thelandryhat.com/2023/03/02/cowboys-lael-collins-contract-disaster-bengals-release-rumors-steele/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted March 24, 2023 Report Share Posted March 24, 2023 1 hour ago, adam said: Poles roster construction has been almost backwards. Did the secondary last year with Brisker/Gordon, now doing LB Corps, did Claypool and now Moore for WRs, but the trenches? We still need some dudes on both sides of the ball, otherwise the LBs and DBs will be useless. maybe thats been the way to lose games while building talent? you gotta admit we were the best 3 win team youve ever seen last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 24, 2023 Report Share Posted March 24, 2023 People question how Poles is rebuilding the roster but he's been honest about. Not going to over pay for mediocre talent. He may have overpaid for Edmunds but he fits his player mold. He's 25, A physical ,beast been productive. If you're going give a lot of money to a player, it fit that type of signing. As far as RT, he will Bring in a vet on a cheap deal while he develops a rookie. Outlier could be Jenkins going there and bring in Dalton Risner to play LG. As far as DL he will Bring in a a couple more vets and draft at least 2 more in the draft. Lots of older edge players left unsigned, Bud Dupree, Frank Clark, Leonard Floyd, Robert Quinn, Yannick Ngakoue, Clowney, Dawuane Smoot, Markus Golden, Melvin Ingram, Mario Addison, Justin Houston, Rasheen Green. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted March 25, 2023 Report Share Posted March 25, 2023 5 minutes ago, Stinger226 said: People question how Poles is rebuilding the roster but he's been honest about. Not going to over pay for mediocre talent. He may have overpaid for Edmunds but he fits his player mold. He's 25, A physical ,beast been productive. If you're going give a lot of money to a player, it fit that type of signing. As far as RT, he will Bring in a vet on a cheap deal while he develops a rookie. Outlier could be Jenkins going there and bring in Dalton Risner to play LG. As far as DL he will Bring in a a couple more vets and draft at least 2 more in the draft. Lots of older edge players left unsigned, Bud Dupree, Frank Clark, Leonard Floyd, Robert Quinn, Yannick Ngakoue, Clowney, Dawuane Smoot, Markus Golden, Melvin Ingram, Mario Addison, Justin Houston, Rasheen Green. Totally agree. Plus, this is not the year anyway. Make solid moves and draft BPA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted March 25, 2023 Report Share Posted March 25, 2023 yes. hes not purposely building in any order (despite my joke above) hes taking the right guys who are available at the right price. he is being disciplined. Poles is young - he is setting us up to be a good team for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted March 25, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2023 11 hours ago, BearFan PHX said: yes. hes not purposely building in any order (despite my joke above) hes taking the right guys who are available at the right price. he is being disciplined. Poles is young - he is setting us up to be a good team for a long time. Right, but what if OL or DL never go on discount? Do you just continually say we are not going to spend there just for principle? If he continues on the same course, the Bears are drafting a CB in the 1st, LB and S in the 2nd, because those will be the highest rated players available at those picks. At this point, the Bears still could use at least 3 more on the DL and at least 2 more on the OL.   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 25, 2023 Report Share Posted March 25, 2023 40 minutes ago, adam said: Right, but what if OL or DL never go on discount? Do you just continually say we are not going to spend there just for principle? If he continues on the same course, the Bears are drafting a CB in the 1st, LB and S in the 2nd, because those will be the highest rated players available at those picks. At this point, the Bears still could use at least 3 more on the DL and at least 2 more on the OL.  They brought in Walker and Billings combined for 9 mil. Tremont Jones is making 15 mil. average and Walker had more sacks than Jones with less snaps. There is more of those type players out there. Walker, Billings and Justin Jones are starters until they replace them. Those will not be the highest rated players when they pick. At 9 will be 3 OL and at least one DL rated higher than Weatherspoon. We are missing1 OL starter and could use more depth. None of this bad as you project, especially after the draft and late vet cuts. Its going to work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongo3451 Posted March 25, 2023 Report Share Posted March 25, 2023 54 minutes ago, adam said: Right, but what if OL or DL never go on discount? Do you just continually say we are not going to spend there just for principle? This draft is deep in what we need and Pace ? didn't get a chance to trade our picks away. I like Skor, but Johnson looks like the smart pick with him being able to play LT as well. With 10 picks, the draft should be lovely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted March 25, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2023 I am just saying Walker, Billings, Jones, Gipson is the worst DLine in the league. Not one of those guys is a starter on pretty much any other team. Those are all good rotational guys, but none are starters. Walker is probably the closest, so we still need 3 starters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 25, 2023 Report Share Posted March 25, 2023 27 minutes ago, adam said: I am just saying Walker, Billings, Jones, Gipson is the worst DLine in the league. Not one of those guys is a starter on pretty much any other team. Those are all good rotational guys, but none are starters. Walker is probably the closest, so we still need 3 starters lets accept the fact they are not done growing the roster yet. If this was August, I'd agree with you but its 2 weeks into free agency. I expect 2 vets and 2 or 3 rookies. Then we can make an honest review. Billings will be starting NT, the other two are rotational guys of which Flus does anyway. He needs 8 DL, we have 4 if you count Robinson and Gipson as 1. He needs 4 . How about a Frank Clark and Poona Ford , would that change your mind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted March 25, 2023 Report Share Posted March 25, 2023 We're 13 months into Ryan Poles' total overhaul of a bad roster. To date we have: QB: A starting QB (yeah!) WR: 3 starting NFL caliber WRs including one who is top 15, maybe top 10, in the NFL.  Who had that on their bingo card to start this season?   Oline: Starters at LT, RG, LG and both guards are good to really good players with Pro Bowl potential. Braxton Jones ranked as a top 15 LT last year.  TE: A top 15 starting inline TE (Kmet already on roster), and a good backup receiving TE in Tonyan. RB: Good RBs in Foreman, Herbert, and a 3rd down specialist who can pass protect in Homer.   On defense we have: LB: 2 good starting LBs, probably 3 if you include Sanborn at SLB. One of our starters has 2 Pro Bowls on his resume and fits the centerfield role perfectly for this defense. Again, who had that on their bingo card for this season?  Safety: 2 good starting Safeties.  CB: 2 good starting CBs (can depend on your confidence in Gordon).  DE:  Walker is a legit starting DE for us.  DT: Billings is a good starting DT as a 1-tech.  For me at the 13 month point for Poles, and without his 2nd draft, this roster is more complete that I anticipated it would be.  I see the gaps at RT, 3-tech, and CB. Right behind those is Center depending on Whitehair.  And we have 10 draft picks and $38mil in cap space. I'm not nervous I'm excited for what this roster has already become and now we're about to add some good depth in this draft.     Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted March 25, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2023 2 minutes ago, AZ54 said: We're 13 months into Ryan Poles' total overhaul of a bad roster. To date we have: QB: A starting QB (yeah!) WR: 3 starting NFL caliber WRs including one who is top 15, maybe top 10, in the NFL.  Who had that on their bingo card to start this season?   Oline: Starters at LT, RG, LG and both guards are good to really good players with Pro Bowl potential. Braxton Jones ranked as a top 15 LT last year.  TE: A top 15 starting inline TE (Kmet already on roster), and a good backup receiving TE in Tonyan. RB: Good RBs in Foreman, Herbert, and a 3rd down specialist who can pass protect in Homer.   On defense we have: LB: 2 good starting LBs, probably 3 if you include Sanborn at SLB. One of our starters has 2 Pro Bowls on his resume and fits the centerfield role perfectly for this defense. Again, who had that on their bingo card for this season?  Safety: 2 good starting Safeties.  CB: 2 good starting CBs (can depend on your confidence in Gordon).  DE:  Walker is a legit starting DE for us.  DT: Billings is a good starting DT as a 1-tech.  For me at the 13 month point for Poles, and without his 2nd draft, this roster is more complete that I anticipated it would be.  I see the gaps at RT, 3-tech, and CB. Right behind those is Center depending on Whitehair.  And we have 10 draft picks and $38mil in cap space. I'm not nervous I'm excited for what this roster has already become and now we're about to add some good depth in this draft.  So if you count Walker as a starting DE, then wouldn't the other DE be a gap? There are actual holes at DE, DT, CB, and RT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted March 25, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2023 2 hours ago, Stinger226 said: lets accept the fact they are not done growing the roster yet. If this was August, I'd agree with you but its 2 weeks into free agency. I expect 2 vets and 2 or 3 rookies. Then we can make an honest review. Billings will be starting NT, the other two are rotational guys of which Flus does anyway. He needs 8 DL, we have 4 if you count Robinson and Gipson as 1. He needs 4 . How about a Frank Clark and Poona Ford , would that change your mind? Yes, my list is at least 2 of the defenders listed and one of the OL. Get 3 of those guys and I will feel a million times better heading into the draft. Ya-Sin, CB Clark, Edge Ngakoue, Edge Robinson, IDL Ioannidis, IDL Ford, IDL Wynn, RT Fleming, RT McGovern, C Risner, G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted March 25, 2023 Report Share Posted March 25, 2023 20 minutes ago, adam said: So if you count Walker as a starting DE, then wouldn't the other DE be a gap? There are actual holes at DE, DT, CB, and RT. I agree. And overall, we still need: 3T, DE, DE (developmental rotational), RT, CB, C, FS (Jackson's future replacement) Some needs are more pressing than others, of course. You said "actual holes" and I agree with your list for that, maybe add C tho? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted March 25, 2023 Report Share Posted March 25, 2023 26 minutes ago, adam said: Yes, my list is at least 2 of the defenders listed and one of the OL. Get 3 of those guys and I will feel a million times better heading into the draft. Ya-Sin, CB Clark, Edge Ngakoue, Edge Robinson, IDL Ioannidis, IDL Ford, IDL Wynn, RT Fleming, RT McGovern, C Risner, G Well said. I would just caution though, that the signings off of this list (and similar) could well happen after the draft once we know what we've got. It's a little nerve wracking to wait, but these guys, and similar level cuts will be available as we need them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted March 26, 2023 Report Share Posted March 26, 2023 10 hours ago, adam said: So if you count Walker as a starting DE, then wouldn't the other DE be a gap? There are actual holes at DE, DT, CB, and RT. Correct. That's what happens when the wife says it's time to go and you have to hit submit reply before you're done.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ54 Posted March 26, 2023 Report Share Posted March 26, 2023 10 hours ago, BearFan PHX said: I agree. And overall, we still need: 3T, DE, DE (developmental rotational), RT, CB, C, FS (Jackson's future replacement) Some needs are more pressing than others, of course. You said "actual holes" and I agree with your list for that, maybe add C tho? Center is a need IMO but it's somewhat mitigated by the fact we're trying out Whitehair there so we'll see. My preference is to draft a guy for the future but at minimum Whitehair should be an upgrade over anything we saw from Mustipher or Patrick last year. I feel like we'll come up 1 short in filling all the "starter" gaps this year but we'll go into next offseason with a good amount of cap space and two 1st Rd picks. Having a starter caliber player at RT is a must have, not an option. If there is a starter gap it can be at one of the other need spots which means I think we could survive a season with Whitehair/Patrick as the center options.     Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 26, 2023 Report Share Posted March 26, 2023 13 minutes ago, AZ54 said: Center is a need IMO but it's somewhat mitigated by the fact we're trying out Whitehair there so we'll see. My preference is to draft a guy for the future but at minimum Whitehair should be an upgrade over anything we saw from Mustipher or Patrick last year. I feel like we'll come up 1 short in filling all the "starter" gaps this year but we'll go into next offseason with a good amount of cap space and two 1st Rd picks. Having a starter caliber player at RT is a must have, not an option. If there is a starter gap it can be at one of the other need spots which means I think we could survive a season with Whitehair/Patrick as the center options.     Like you its about what we have to do and what can get by with for another year. On the OL its, have to, RT and would like to, a long term OC. We can live with Whitehair/ Patrick/ Kramer this year but I still think we could add a potential long term starter on day 3 in the draft. The first pick in round 4 could be a OC that dropped. Using tankathon's mock, ( easy navigation ) the only OCs taken are JMS, Avila, Tippmann, and Jarrett Patterson. ONE of them could drop or a few other options still available, O O, Stromberg, Scruggs. I actually think if we got Cody Mauch with a 3 rd round pick, he could play OT, OG or OC as a starter in his rookie year. That would be a valuable pick because of flexibility. My ideal draft would net Mauch in at pick 54, and then get Wanya Morris/OT. at pick 103_He's got 35 1/8" arms, athletic, and fits our scheme. Could be a Braxton Jones get this year. Fix our OL for yrs to come and leaves 3 high draft picks for DL. I see CB as the same as OC. We have starters and some potential backups already here. Josh Blackwell, Jaylon Jones and a less trusted Kindle Vildor. If we miss out on a high draft pick at CB, he could still bring in a vet. ( Rock Ya Sin) We would be okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearFan PHX Posted March 26, 2023 Report Share Posted March 26, 2023 41 minutes ago, AZ54 said: Center is a need IMO but it's somewhat mitigated by the fact we're trying out Whitehair there so we'll see. My preference is to draft a guy for the future but at minimum Whitehair should be an upgrade over anything we saw from Mustipher or Patrick last year. I feel like we'll come up 1 short in filling all the "starter" gaps this year but we'll go into next offseason with a good amount of cap space and two 1st Rd picks. Having a starter caliber player at RT is a must have, not an option. If there is a starter gap it can be at one of the other need spots which means I think we could survive a season with Whitehair/Patrick as the center options.     I agree. we may yet sign a free agent center and cut whitehair too, but eveb if we do, that guys a placeholder, and not a long term answer. So i agree. We will probably draft one. The only wild card is if they think Eislen will be ready to go after an offseason of conditioning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixote Posted March 26, 2023 Report Share Posted March 26, 2023 Back in 2018 Whitehair must have done pretty good at Center since he earned a trip to the Pro Bowl. Then, of course, Bear's switched him back to guard???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted March 27, 2023 Report Share Posted March 27, 2023 If we get a RT, our OL will be fine. Better weapons. Added defensive players and we can compete. Don't forget, players get better in year 2. Brisker, Gordon, Jaylon Jones, and Josh Blackwell will improve. Stud LBers. DL will have 4 or 5 new pieces. Robinson should see a big improvement in his second season. Gipson is the one that has a big ? on his back. We'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted April 3, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2023 One of the amusing things to do sometimes is to see what some other teams have added this offseason so far. The Packers have added a Long Snapper and backup Safety/Special Teamer. That's it. However, they lost Lowry and Reed from the DL, and Lazard and Tonyan on offense, while Amos, Cobb, Crosby, and Lewis (TE) are all still UFAs, AND they still have the Rodgers thing hanging over their heads. Rodgers is $31M against the cap now, and a trade would bump it up to $40M in dead money, which would leave them about $8M in cap space for any free agents, resignings, and in-season operating money (to sign players mid-season). They were an 8-win team with Rodgers, so with Love and a lesser team? Maybe 6 wins? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted April 6, 2023 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2023 Add Rasheem Green to the mix on the DLine. Andrew Billings, Rasheem Green, and DeMarcus Walker are upgrades over Muhammad, Blackson, Pennel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stinger226 Posted April 7, 2023 Report Share Posted April 7, 2023 It's not Headline material but does help the team get better. Plus Green and Walker are versatile position players. Remember that on draft day. Deon White Lucas Van Ness Tuli Tuipulotu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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