My Greatest Wish Draft...

[Stinger226]

Other than draft one stud on the DL, I wouldn't have any problem is all his 4 th round and higher were all OL picks. 4 OL 1 DL 2 OTs, 1 OG, and 1 OC. Of course to get the stud on DL it would have to be the first pick.

Lucas Van Ness

Cody Mauch

Blake Freeland

Joe Tippmann

Wanya Morris

That's how important I think the OL is this year. Obviously he will have to hit free agency again with 

Poona Ford

Yannick Ngakoue

 

 

[adam]

I don't know why, but I am worried about Poles. His top 3 picks were Gordon, Brisker, and Velus last year. Gordon was his first pick.

Pretty much any mock draft or big board did better with those 3 picks.

His only saving grace was getting Braxton Jones in the 5th.

 

Now, because of the Claypool trade, he has 44 picks after the 9th pick before he picks again, so a ton of elite talent is going to be gone before his 2nd pick (unless he trades down).

If Paris is there at 9, I assume he is selected. If Paris and JSN are gone, I could see him moving down (if there is a team looking to move up).

[dawhizz]

So, someone sell me on JSN. I’ve watched the highlights. I know he outperformed Olave and Wilson when they were together, I’ve even heard the Ohio State WR coach put him above those guys. But I just don’t quite see it yet. He’s not the big. He’s not that fast. He’s got good agility but doesn’t seem to be particularly elusive in the open field. I see him run a lot of crossing routes where he gets hit right away and sideline routes where he gets out of bounds. He’s obviously got really good hands, which isn’t nothing, do I guess the comp is probably Davonte Adams, but there are a lot of guys similar athletically to Davante Adams, so I’m having trouble coming around on using a top ten pick on him. Make your case. 

[Mongo3451]

1 minute ago, dawhizz said:

So, someone sell me on JSN. I’ve watched the highlights. I know he outperformed Olave and Wilson when they were together, I’ve even heard the Ohio State WR coach put him above those guys. But I just don’t quite see it yet. He’s not the big. He’s not that fast. He’s got good agility but doesn’t seem to be particularly elusive in the open field. I see him run a lot of crossing routes where he gets hit right away and sideline routes where he gets out of bounds. He’s obviously got really good hands, which isn’t nothing, do I guess the comp is probably Davonte Adams, but there are a lot of guys similar athletically to Davante Adams, so I’m having trouble coming around on using a top ten pick on him. Make your case. 

I'll go.  He's not a burner, but he's fast enough and has elite short area quickness.  Great route runner.  Great hands.  Has a sturdy build to battle DB's.  He was un-guardable on the Rose Bowl, setting a record.

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, Mongo3451 said:

I'll go.  He's not a burner, but he's fast enough and has elite short area quickness.  Great route runner.  Great hands.  Has a sturdy build to battle DB's.  He was un-guardable on the Rose Bowl, setting a record.

We acquired two WRs this season by trade. Why go after Moore instead of getting another first round pick thrown into the deal, if you were going to draft a possible stud at 9? That's because their not using that pick on a WR. We don't run 4 WR sets very often. So one of the good assets is going to be a backup. That was never his intention. He's not drafting a WR at 9.

[AZ54]

3 hours ago, dawhizz said:

So, someone sell me on JSN. I’ve watched the highlights. I know he outperformed Olave and Wilson when they were together, I’ve even heard the Ohio State WR coach put him above those guys. But I just don’t quite see it yet. He’s not the big. He’s not that fast. He’s got good agility but doesn’t seem to be particularly elusive in the open field. I see him run a lot of crossing routes where he gets hit right away and sideline routes where he gets out of bounds. He’s obviously got really good hands, which isn’t nothing, do I guess the comp is probably Davonte Adams, but there are a lot of guys similar athletically to Davante Adams, so I’m having trouble coming around on using a top ten pick on him. Make your case. 

I can’t make any good argument for drafting a slot WR in the top 10.  Especially not when we have far greater needs at more critical positions.   If the goal is to add a skill position player to make the offense better Bijan is a far better prospect who can impact both the running and passing attack and I wouldn’t take him in the top ten.  

[Mongo3451]

2 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

We acquired two WRs this season by trade. Why go after Moore instead of getting another first round pick thrown into the deal, if you were going to draft a possible stud at 9? That's because their not using that pick on a WR. We don't run 4 WR sets very often. So one of the good assets is going to be a backup. That was never his intention. He's not drafting a WR at 9.

I agree.  I was just answering a question Dawizz asked.

[adam]

In the last 10 years, there have been only 6 WRs to eclipse 1600 receiving yards in a season from a Power-5 conference:

Jaxon Smith-Njigba - 1606 yds

J'Mare Chase  - 1780 yds

DeVonta Smith - 1856 yds

Amari Cooper - 1727 yds

Brandon Cooks - 1730 yds

Davante Adams - 1719 yds

That is a pretty solid group of NFL WRs with a combined 19 seasons with 1K receiving yards and several 900 yds seasons. 

[Stinger226]

I find it interesting that a player that didn't play much last year is getting such high acclaim. Isn't there some injury questions? Especially top 10. I don't think he goes top15. 

[AZ54]

11 hours ago, adam said:

In the last 10 years, there have been only 6 WRs to eclipse 1600 receiving yards in a season from a Power-5 conference:

Jaxon Smith-Njigba - 1606 yds

J'Mare Chase  - 1780 yds

DeVonta Smith - 1856 yds

Amari Cooper - 1727 yds

Brandon Cooks - 1730 yds

Davante Adams - 1719 yds

That is a pretty solid group of NFL WRs with a combined 19 seasons with 1K receiving yards and several 900 yds seasons. 

Even if I were to grant that JSN would get 1000 yds receiving next year I’d still make the case that getting a proper RT in Rd 1 will yield more net  offense and points.   In other words JSN might have his yards because he’s working the shorter routes and Fields has less time to throw.  That comes at the expense of yards to DJ Moore and Mooney on deep and intermediate routes.  

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, AZ54 said:

Even if I were to grant that JSN would get 1000 yds receiving next year I’d still make the case that getting a proper RT in Rd 1 will yield more net  offense and points.   In other words JSN might have his yards because he’s working the shorter routes and Fields has less time to throw.  That comes at the expense of yards to DJ Moore and Mooney on deep and intermediate routes.  

We have  to expand the offense to feed 3 productive WRs, 2 TEs and RBs, V Jones . You bring in a rookie hat will just tip  over the apple cart. This off season will allow our existing players time to acclimate to Justin Fields. You draft JSN, this year  it will be bad value as the 4 th WR . you need 9 th pick to start.  

[dawhizz]

Paris Johnson’s top criteria for deciding where he wants to go is . . . Taxes? Not sure if this is refreshing (someone who is being honest/thinking about the economics of his situation) or alarming. Make if it what you will. 
 

https://247sports.com/nfl/chicago-bears/Article/2023-NFL-draft-prospect-names-Chicago-Bears-among-top-landing-spots-207917054/?utm_source=247Sports%20Newsletter&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_campaign=230407_114514_ChicagoBears&utm_content=Link&eid=82e1bbfad4a16d3be3e1022478e34b4c85496458d3398797f7b08412b002dcbf

[jason]

On 4/5/2023 at 3:29 PM, Mongo3451 said:

Again, I'll disagree.  Out of the successes you stated only Fields and Burrow had dismal offensive lines.

Marino, Kelly, Brees, Manning, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Jackson, and Mahommes all had decent offensive lines when they were thrust into action.  I don't want to begin the list of sacrificial lambs that didn't have the luxury. 

All situations we choose to highlight have individual circumstances that can't be quantified.  It comes down to individual philosophy like the chicken and egg...

Concur. I can't think of a single QB in NFL history who has had sustained excellence while simultaneously having a trash OL. This works for RBs as well, with the exception of maybe early Payton and Barry Sanders. The truth of the matter is, starting at OL accentuates all other skill positions, but loading up on skill positions with a garbage OL is a good way to waste high-priced talent.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

1 hour ago, jason said:

Concur. I can't think of a single QB in NFL history who has had sustained excellence while simultaneously having a trash OL. This works for RBs as well, with the exception of maybe early Payton and Barry Sanders. The truth of the matter is, starting at OL accentuates all other skill positions, but loading up on skill positions with a garbage OL is a good way to waste high-priced talent.

Hoping you get more Braxton Jones should not be the draft plan either.  Get the best OT and C.  Then spend whatever draft picks you want on the defense.  Not only does that protect your franchise but it makes the other offensive pieces better. 

[Stinger226]

Poles has to try to  balance of filling every need he has. How much better are the first tier than the second tier?

I think all 32 teams have different value boards on players. 

Paris Johnson Jr, Peter Skoronski, Broderick Jones in first tier ( IMO )

Poles may have the same opinion or just because they are the highest rated players at a position, may not be sure bets to him or different values. He may have Broderick Jones rated the highest OL. 

He may have Darren Wright rated in that group. 

2 nd tier. Darrell Wright, Anton Harrison, Dawand Jones, Matthew Bergeron, Cody Mauch, Jaelyn Duncan, Blake Freeland

He mat have Paris or Brodrick rated at 8.9 and Wright at 8.5 , thinking all could start. If he rates Cody at 8.4 Blake as a 8.3.

My point if he thinks he can get one or two of them at 53 instead of with the 9 th pick, does he pull the trigger with a higher rated DL instead? He could move up with the 61 and 64 as part of a trade up if he has to. We just don't know how he has them rated.

My take: moves back in the teens and takes Broderick Jones, and gets extra pick or picks to maneuver to get a DL he might want.

I have read a lot about Blake Freeland and he seems like the perfect pick that Poles would fall in love with that would be gettable in the second round. 37" vertical jump at 6'8" 302 lbs.  Was a TE than can bend and move .Even if he has to be developed, he can always give him help with scheme, RB chip or with a TE. If he sees a high ceiling like some of the first tier, I can see him do that.

[BearFan PHX]

1 minute ago, Stinger226 said:

My point if he thinks he can get one or two of them at 53 instead of with the 9 th pick, does he pull the trigger with a higher rated DL instead? He could move up with the 61 and 64 as part of a trade up if he has to. We just don't know how he has them rated.

this is what Ive been jabbering on about for weeks LOL I totally agree. The OTs at 53 are better than the 3Ts at 53.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

2 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

this is what Ive been jabbering on about for weeks LOL I totally agree. The OTs at 53 are better than the 3Ts at 53.

Who would be the  3T at 9?  Lukas Van Ness or Kancey?  Jalen Carter should be gone, if not he is worth a hard thought to take.  

I feel better getting the offensive linemen over those two at 9.  Poles hired a defensive coach to coach up those players.  

 

[BearFan PHX]

1 hour ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

Who would be the  3T at 9?  Lukas Van Ness or Kancey?  Jalen Carter should be gone, if not he is worth a hard thought to take.  

I feel better getting the offensive linemen over those two at 9.  Poles hired a defensive coach to coach up those players.  

 

I think if the 3T goes first, and its not Carter (who Im not sold on) then maybe we'd trade down and take a guy like Kancey at 15 or 20 ish

Or, it could be an edge rusher too. Maybe even at 9.

But i agree the odds of taking an OT at 9 are pretty high.

Its just that you wont find a starter at 3T in the 2nd round, but you might find a starter at RT there.

[AZ54]

8 hours ago, jason said:

Concur. I can't think of a single QB in NFL history who has had sustained excellence while simultaneously having a trash OL. This works for RBs as well, with the exception of maybe early Payton and Barry Sanders. The truth of the matter is, starting at OL accentuates all other skill positions, but loading up on skill positions with a garbage OL is a good way to waste high-priced talent.

That discussion wasn't about sustained success, rather would you draft a top QB knowing your Oline was bad.  I would because I think I could then focus on building the line and that talent is easier to find than a starting QB.  He would prefer to build the Oline first then add the QB.    

[AZ54]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

I think if the 3T goes first, and its not Carter (who Im not sold on) then maybe we'd trade down and take a guy like Kancey at 15 or 20 ish

Or, it could be an edge rusher too. Maybe even at 9.

But i agree the odds of taking an OT at 9 are pretty high.

Its just that you wont find a starter at 3T in the 2nd round, but you might find a starter at RT there.

For me there are only 2 defensive players worth taking at 9:  Jalen Carter or Tyree Wilson.  Both have negatives:  Carter mental and Wilson health with that foot injury.  Those type of injuries are always a huge concern especially for an athlete who has to push 300lb men around.  I'd say we have an outside chance  one of them is available at our pick but not very likely both will be.   I'll guess those concerns worry Poles enough that he prefers using either one to help our effort to trade down.  

[Stinger226]

It goes like this:

if Carter is there at 9 , they take him , the highest rated player in this draft. It looks like a risk to us because we don't have all the information. But I think they will know the work ethic and mental issues aren't strong enough to say no. 

1B will Anderson won't be there.

I have read everything I could find on Wilson and the majority of experts don't see a health problem going forward. He's supposed to work out in one week.

If Wilson drops to 9 and no Carter, I think it's a no brainer.

The third option will be to trade back. I think they take their highest rated player DL or OL on their board. In the teens, ( Bruglers big board).

Lucas Van Ness, Nolan Smith, Paris Johnson Jr, Broderick Jones, Myles Murphy, all fall in that range. Just depends how they rated them. According to Brugler, Van Ness and and Paris are the highest rated.

I threw Nolan Smith in there. He doesn't fit our scheme but read some scouts say if he wasn't injured this year, he would be rated higher than Anderson, which is crazy. A situational pass rusher doing 12-14 sacks a year? Would we do that?

 

[Mongo3451]

9 hours ago, ASHKUM BEAR said:

I feel better getting the offensive linemen over those two at 9.  Poles hired a defensive coach to coach up those players.  

Yes!  Unless a surprise defender falls.  The 9 pick should be OL.  This is judgement year for Fields and he needs the fullest opportunity he can get.  If he succeeds, load the D next year.  If he fails, the new QB doesn't get murdered... 

I'm also going stand up and shout from the back row so people in the front row can hear, "the NFL has never had a great team that didn't have a good OL"!  Below average quarterbacks have been to and won the Superbowl because of the big boys in the trenches.

[dawhizz]

8 hours ago, AZ54 said:

For me there are only 2 defensive players worth taking at 9:  Jalen Carter or Tyree Wilson.  Both have negatives:  Carter mental and Wilson health with that foot injury.  Those type of injuries are always a huge concern especially for an athlete who has to push 300lb men around.  I'd say we have an outside chance  one of them is available at our pick but not very likely both will be.   I'll guess those concerns worry Poles enough that he prefers using either one to help our effort to trade down.  

My concern with Wilson is he’s slow off the snap. Even in his highlights where he ends up making the play, he’s the last guy moving on that line. On one hand, that’s concerning because that will hinder his effectiveness at the next level. On the other, if you can fix that, he could be even more dominant? The question is, is that correctable? He’s a senior, why hadn’t he fixed it yet? Just something I keep noticing. 
 

https://youtu.be/j4TKPD4eJvQ

[Mongo3451]

1 hour ago, dawhizz said:

My concern with Wilson is he’s slow off the snap. Even in his highlights where he ends up making the play, he’s the last guy moving on that line. On one hand, that’s concerning because that will hinder his effectiveness at the next level. On the other, if you can fix that, he could be even more dominant? The question is, is that correctable? He’s a senior, why hadn’t he fixed it yet? Just something I keep noticing. 
 

https://youtu.be/j4TKPD4eJvQ

I saw it the first play of the video and was in shock.  Then I realized he was in strong side contain.  Later in the highlights, he seemed to be a little quicker when it was an obvious passing down.

[dawhizz]