Anything comments

[adam]

Just now, BearFan PHX said:

coaching matters! Is there anyone here that wouldn't trade Matt Eberflus for Matt LaFleur striaght up right now?

There are about 40 coaches I would trade for Eberflus right now.

[BearFan PHX]

1 minute ago, adam said:

Pretty wild, both in their first playoff games:

Love 16-21, 272 yds, 3 TD, 0 INT, 157.2 QB Rating
Stroud 16-21, 274 yds, 3 TD, 0 INT, 157.2 QB Rating

that's what its supposed to look like. especially completion percentages over 70%. That gets it done.

[BearFan PHX]

Just now, adam said:

There are about 40 coaches I would trade for Eberflus right now.

oh Id settle for just one of them LOL

[Alaskan Grizzly]

12 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

Grizz, are you actually arguing that Fields doesn't hold the ball too long?

Not saying he doesn’t necessarily hold the ball too long.  But tell me why is that?  Because the receivers aren’t open or because he’s scrambling around trying to find an open receiver.  Take tonight before example.  Some would argue Prescott isn’t the worst QB in the NFL but there was a lot of time where he was caught scrambling around looking for an open receiver because everyone was covered. It is what it is .   Tell me how long did Dak hold the ball tonight? 
 

This post brought to you courtesy of Makers Mark.  ?

[BearFan PHX]

34 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Not saying he doesn’t necessarily hold the ball too long.  But tell me why is that?  Because the receivers aren’t open or because he’s scrambling around trying to find an open receiver.  Take tonight before example.  Some would argue Prescott isn’t the worst QB in the NFL but there was a lot of time where he was caught scrambling around looking for an open receiver because everyone was covered. It is what it is .   Tell me how long did Dak hold the ball tonight? 
 

This post brought to you courtesy of Makers Mark.  ?

I think we've all seen many many clips of Fields staring down open receivers and not pulling the trigger in time. He hesitates, and the window closes, then he runs.

This isnt new or controversial at all.

It's a lot of excuses out there for Justin, but it's been the #1 criticism of him even before the Bears drafted him. All the pre draft analysis of him says it. So does three years of film. Hes got a ton of athleticism, but he doesnt execute the offense. This isnt just my little pet theory, it's widely discussed, even among those who think Justin will eventually break through.

Some may think that Justin will grow and become a great passer. I have my opinion, but no crystal ball. But you cant say that hasnt been his primary issue up until now - thats just peein on me and telling me its raining?

The future is unknown, but the past is written and on tape and the truth is the truth.

Justin is not secretly already an awesome executor of the offense, but we just cant see it because of the OL and WRs. Thats ridiculous.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

9 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

Justin is not secretly already an awesome executor of the offense, but we just cant see it because of the OL and WRs. Thats ridiculous.

Lemme ask.  You think he could (or would) thrive in another system elsewhere?  Maybe where the OC or HC designs plays more to his skills?  Whether it bet WCO, outside zone with moving pockets or RPO where he runs more than passes.  You don’t yhkrn he could become a QB more like Lamar Jackson or Patrick Mahomes? 

[BearFan PHX]

37 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Lemme ask.  You think he could (or would) thrive in another system elsewhere?  Maybe where the OC or HC designs plays more to his skills?  Whether it bet WCO, outside zone with moving pockets or RPO where he runs more than passes.  You don’t yhkrn he could become a QB more like Lamar Jackson or Patrick Mahomes? 

I do think any player can develop, so i wont make unsubstatiated guesses at what he could become, but so far no way. He is neither of those QBs.

I think you have the argument backward. There are two different abilities. One is reading defenses, and getting the ball out to the right guy in rhythm. Let's call that Pocket Passing. Then there is exceptional extra athleticism. Some QBs have it and some dont. Justin has about as much of it as any QB ever.

The guys you listed have BOTH. So when I say you need to be a capable Pocket Passer, you hear me saying that Exceptional Athleticism doesnt work. But Im not saying that at all. Im saying it has to come along WITH Pocket Passing. Mahomes has a ton of it. And Jackson is a lot better at it too - more than JF has ever been able to do it.

Im not against running, but I am against QBs who cant read a defense. Running alone isnt enough.

You heard the Packers LB say that their plan was to take away JFs first read because then he gets flustered and runs. They know it. You saw our coaches take the ball out of Fields hands and limit his plays where he reads defenses. They Know it too. The reason we called so many roll outs and screens is because those are passes where the QB has to throw the ball, and doesnt make a read. Yes, some of the roll outs have a high low concept so you make a single read.

But our opponents know it. Our coaches know it. The pundits know it. The GMs who wont trade a first rounder for him know it.

Saying Fields has shown that he can execute an offense from the pocket is simply false.

Saying that he is very athletic and can still grow to do better at reading defenses is an opinion. I dont share it, but anyone is entitled to it.

But stop telling me that Fields is already great at that or even serviceable at it and its just everyone else's fault that we havent see it, cuz that's nonsense LOL

[Mongo3451]

17 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

Lamar Jackson or Patrick Mahomes?

You keep doing this.  Mahomes and Jackson are nothing alike.  We want Fields to be more like Mahomes.  Mahomes is great because he can win from the pocket, the off platform throws and occasionally with his legs.  In case of emergency, RUN! Jackson is one of one, who is going to win his second MVP.  I'll lay odds he doesn't go to the Superbowl, because defenses will take the run away from him.  DB's are just more willing to hit in the post season.  If I'm wrong, I'll eat it.  Been wrong before.

[BearFan PHX]

10 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

You keep doing this.  Mahomes and Jackson are nothing alike.  We want Fields to be more like Mahomes.  Mahomes is great because he can win from the pocket, the off platform throws and occasionally with his legs.  In case of emergency, RUN!

Exactly. We dont object to running QBs, we object to QBs that cant read defenses and throw in rhythm. Mahomes does that all day.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

How is Kindle Vildor a starting CB for a playoff team?  ??‍♂️

[DABEARSDABOMB]

Maybe that Packers loss wasn’t as bad as I originally thought. Love does a great job taking the easy play. You can see his comfort in the offense and ability to go through reads. He isn’t crazy talented - but good talent and he is comfortable. Sitting him clearly benefited him. Allows him to not create/have to overcome bad habits from being rushed.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

4 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

I do think any player can develop, so i wont make unsubstatiated guesses at what he could become, but so far no way. He is neither of those QBs.

I think you have the argument backward. There are two different abilities. One is reading defenses, and getting the ball out to the right guy in rhythm. Let's call that Pocket Passing. Then there is exceptional extra athleticism. Some QBs have it and some dont. Justin has about as much of it as any QB ever.

And again you avoid the question.  Mongo at least sorta answered it by saying he doesn’t think Jackson will win a SB because of his running ability. 

I asked you whether either of these guys would be able to succeed in the same system Justin has been in.  You continue to answer that ‘they both have pocket’ presence and ‘Justin can’t read offenses’.  Do think Justin would be a different QB if he was in the exact same system as Mahomes?  

 

 

[BearFan PHX]

2 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

And again you avoid the question.  Mongo at least sorta answered it by saying he doesn’t think Jackson will win a SB because of his running ability. 

I asked you whether either of these guys would be able to succeed in the same system Justin has been in.  You continue to answer that ‘they both have pocket’ presence and ‘Justin can’t read offenses’.  Do think Justin would be a different QB if he was in the exact same system as Mahomes?  

 

 

Im not trying to avoid the question youre asking, I promise - I love a good debate - I guess Im not understanding what im missing? If i hear you right now, maybe this answers?

Yes Mahomes would absolutely succeed in the system we ran for Justin AND we wouldnt have run such a limited system if we werent so scared of Justin's shortcomings. Getsy would have called more pocket pass plays if hed trusted Justin.

Now we are going to agree, that if that is true, it could be said that the coaches were being TOO scared. Id have rather let Justin have more regular pass plays, even if to prove himself not the guy, but at the same time, on a large percentage of the ones they gave him, he wasnt able to pull the trigger within the design of the play. And if youre Getsy, you dont want to keep having Justin fail in front of everyone and lose games, so you dial it back and try to find ways to win with him. It just means a lot of screens at the end of the day cuz those were the only plays they KNEW Justin would throw the ball in rhythm. So its a chicken and the egg thing.

So yes Mahomes would make any system work, and Getsy wouldnt have throttled down Mahomes the way he probably felt he had to with Fields? ANd yes you can blame Fields and Getsy for that of course.

Jackson is Jackson, so I dont know what he'd do.

I do know that the quick shift Herster-like homerun runs we saw from Fields in 2022 were missing this year. My guess is they gave him a rule to slide rather than try to put a move on defenders. For injury concerns thats understandable, but i dont think Jackson would listen to that coaching, so hed be successful in this offense maybe by not listening to the safe aspects of the coaching? Do I blame Justin for listening? No that wouldnt be fair.

So I think some of the limiting factors of the offense were attempts to deal with Justin's weaknesses.

Did I address what youre asking about? If Im still missing it, say more please?

[BearFan PHX]

This is great
 

 

[adam]

Playoff games so far:

A bunch of teams didn't even show up. Detroit wins on a non-call DPI. 

GB put up 48 on DAL in DAL, while the Bears allowed 17 in a crappy game. 

Bears beat DET once, should've beaten them twice, DET wins playoff game.

If that same CLE team played the Bears a few weeks back, the Bears win by 20+ as well.

Curious to see what the games look like today, snow in BUF and PHI @ TB.

[ChileBear]

2 hours ago, adam said:

Playoff games so far:

A bunch of teams didn't even show up. Detroit wins on a non-call DPI. 

GB put up 48 on DAL in DAL, while the Bears allowed 17 in a crappy game. 

Bears beat DET once, should've beaten them twice, DET wins playoff game.

If that same CLE team played the Bears a few weeks back, the Bears win by 20+ as well.

Curious to see what the games look like today, snow in BUF and PHI @ TB.

Probably rain in Tampa. And yes, ifs and buts....

[adam]

17 minutes ago, ChileBear said:

Probably rain in Tampa. And yes, ifs and buts....

Bears not that far off. 

[Stinger226]

8 hours ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

And again you avoid the question.  Mongo at least sorta answered it by saying he doesn’t think Jackson will win a SB because of his running ability. 

I asked you whether either of these guys would be able to succeed in the same system Justin has been in.  You continue to answer that ‘they both have pocket’ presence and ‘Justin can’t read offenses’.  Do think Justin would be a different QB if he was in the exact same system as Mahomes?  

 

 

Of course he would be more successful, maybe  he wouldn't be at the level of Mahomes but how many are. It would be difficult if he didn't show the ability to do those things, but his problem is consistently. Several games he played well. If you watched Stroud they rolled him out as much as he was in the pocket, A lot of underneath throws. The OC put him in a better position to be successful. If we had Slovak here we wouldn't be having this conversation. 

In 2024 we will find out the QB Justin can become, whether here or somewhere else. Smarter people will be in charge of him. His first year was a total waste, then he gets a system OC that wants him to sit in the pocket 80% of the time. That wasn't working very well, so he did more roll outs, RPOs, and play action. Addressed his ability to run and he looked better. Then 2023 , Getsy  stuck him back in the pocket. We need a OC that can be flexible. He got fired for that reason.

I would never say he's a tier one QB, he's not, but a QB with enough talent to win in this league. A perfect example of a QB not living up to standards  is Tua. They figured out how to put him in a better spot to succeed. A better coach, talent around him. TaDa.

[AZ54]

2 minutes ago, BearFan PHX said:

if you count one one thousand etc, and see Fields hold the ball - that's why. Good NFL QBs would get rid of the ball before the rush got to them. Yes sometimes it's the line, but a lot of times it was Fields.

Also, it's good to see you posting more here, I hope things are progressing well toward health for your wife.

We'll just agree to disagree that was an acceptable Oline performance.  Even the run blocking was really poor at times.   Watching the Darnell Wright video I posted somewhere .... how do two TEs skip blocking the DE, at least even a chip block on a play leading to a TFL?   

Yes, things are better at home thanks for asking.  

 

[ChileBear]

2 hours ago, adam said:

Bears not that far off. 

I know it, that's why this offseason is going to be very interesting. 

[Stinger226]

1 hour ago, AZ54 said:

We'll just agree to disagree that was an acceptable Oline performance.  Even the run blocking was really poor at times.   Watching the Darnell Wright video I posted somewhere .... how do two TEs skip blocking the DE, at least even a chip block on a play leading to a TFL?   

Yes, things are better at home thanks for asking.  

 

I know this sounds stupid but do you think the fact Patrick was out contributed to the OL performance? One and one , I doubt it but he makes the line calls .It could have been a factor. (GB)

[Mongo3451]

2 hours ago, AZ54 said:

 Watching the Darnell Wright video I posted somewhere .... how do two TEs skip blocking the DE, at least even a chip block on a play leading to a TFL?

I stopped watching that idiot when he gave Wright praise for performing a great reach block, when the DT obviously bit on a read option fake.  That being said, Wright is gonna be that dude.  The blogger is just trying to make his nut, getting follows by parroting sentiment from guys like Baldy.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

16 hours ago, BearFan PHX said:

So yes Mahomes would make any system work, and Getsy wouldnt have throttled down Mahomes the way he probably felt he had to with Fields? ANd yes you can blame Fields and Getsy for that of course.

The point is more about how would Mahomes hold up to withering pass rushes as Justin has done? Look no further than in Super Bowl 55 (2020) when Patrick was without most of his starting oline and how pedestrian he looked.  He was rushed on newrly half of his dropbacks and threw 270 yards to 2 INTs in a 31-9 loss. And for a while this year, Mahomes had been struggling with a sub-par WR corps.  Thankfully for him he has Andy Reid calling plays.  

And we will probably disagree on who’s at fault for the play calling/execution so far this last year (for Chicago).  Not having Getsy next season will remove that “excuse”. 

[BearFan PHX]

47 minutes ago, Alaskan Grizzly said:

The point is more about how would Mahomes hold up to withering pass rushes as Justin has done? Look no further than in Super Bowl 55 (2020) when Patrick was without most of his starting oline and how pedestrian he looked.  He was rushed on newrly half of his dropbacks and threw 270 yards to 2 INTs in a 31-9 loss. And for a while this year, Mahomes had been struggling with a sub-par WR corps.  Thankfully for him he has Andy Reid calling plays.  

And we will probably disagree on who’s at fault for the play calling/execution so far this last year (for Chicago).  Not having Getsy next season will remove that “excuse”. 

Oh well thats much easier to answer. I have seen Fields dozens of times when he was not being rushed look at an open receiver as they came to the break in their route, have his hips open to that player and just not throw the ball.

The idea that Justin couldnt do it because he was always being rushed is false. he may have seen plays with pressure, and every QB does, but he had literally dozens of times where what I describe happened. He had plenty of opportunities to show it and didnt, on plays where he had time. I even diagrammed some about a month back, you could see the pocket.

Here's a good one. Think Mahomes wouldnt have made this play? Justin just didnt pull the trigger on Moore. Or the other open WR either. Instead he ran to the left out of the pocket. Why?

Dozens of times Im saying out lout to the TV "THROW THE BALL!"

So come on.

[AZ54]

9 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

I know this sounds stupid but do you think the fact Patrick was out contributed to the OL performance? One and one , I doubt it but he makes the line calls .It could have been a factor. (GB)

Of course.   Feeney showed why he was an easy trade midseason.   Even without that on individual blocks guys were just getting beat.  Nobody looked like they came to play.  Saw a lot of that on D too.