Edge

[AZ54]

Are we going to do anything to beef up the DE position?   The draft didn't play out as expected with a run on edge players before our pick at 53.  Poles was pretty clear weeks ago that he was seriously looking to add talent to that position.   Since then a few players have come off the FA market, notably Leonard Floyd (BUF) and Frank Clark (DEN).  There are still some big names available but do they really fit?  Ngakoue is the most obvious pass rusher but Eberflus has already worked with him and if he was a priority signing for this staff IMO he'd already be here.   Clowney doesn't seem to fit the HITS system either.  Everyone else on the list is like a who's who of soon to be retired NFL players.    

Given the way Poles talked about adding help I can't believe we watched OTAs and are suddenly ok to go into the season with this group.  If there is help coming our way it's going to be finding a post OTA cut of a veteran, or a trade. 

Rumors have gone back and forth on Chase Young's availability.  iMO that indicates Wash was willing to part with him for a 1st Rd pick and didn't get what they were asking for.  After a couple weeks of noise we suddenly heard that Wash was good with keeping Young this season to try to win as many games as possible (gotta save our jobs approach).  Now again this week there are rumors he's still available for the right price, theoretically still a 1st Rd pick.   At this point when your product has been on the market too long anyone selling something has to drop the price, so if he's still available maybe now they'll take a 2nd Rd pick.   I still don't see Poles likely to make this trade simply due to the injury risk and the contract risk.   If he's healthy the 2nd rd pick is a no-brainer IMO but this photo (6 Jun 23) makes me concerned about the strength of that knee:

https://wjla.com/sports/washington-commanders/gallery/chase-young-returns-minicamp-otas-training-torn-acl-fifth-year-option-pass-rusher-sacks-99-ron-rivera-team-recovery-free-agent?photo=1

Enter Danielle Hunter who is now rumored to be available.  This is even more sketchy but all I can tell for sure is that Hunter is not happy right now and he's holding out.  You've got the other thread about the Vikings quietly tanking so they might be willing to part with him.   He fits the need perfectly and give Poles some time to sort out the future DEs via draft.   An in-division trade isn't likely although if you are truly tanking, what better way to lose more games this year than to make your division rival better?   Plus you steal away a draft pick that would only help their roster compete with yours in 3 years.   What is the trade compensation for Hunter?  I'm not sure but at a minimum having two DEs available via trade helps us if we're interested.  

[BearFan PHX]

This is what i keep thinking about every time I load this page during the day. I keep hoping to see the news that we signed someone at DE.

I think it's just a matter of patience though. Something is coming, it's just no fun to wait for it.

Hunter would be a great addition, but it may be a surprise from left field too.

[Stinger226]

A few weeks ago Flus had an interview where he was asked about an edge rusher addition. He said that we needed one and it would be sooner than later. Since we dont have one signed at this time that tells me he was after one of the ones that has already signed. Probably Floyd since he was the most complete edge available. Couldnt get the job done being he said he wanted to play for a contender. Buffalo.

I think his plan A is gone so what is his plan B? Maybe that player isnt available yet. Ngakoue wants to play for a contender to, so I dont think he comes here unless Poles throws him some money or long term contract of which Poles has showed he's not doing that unless he believes he is a core player.

[AZ54]

36 minutes ago, Stinger226 said:

A few weeks ago Flus had an interview where he was asked about an edge rusher addition. He said that we needed one and it would be sooner than later. Since we dont have one signed at this time that tells me he was after one of the ones that has already signed. Probably Floyd since he was the most complete edge available. Couldnt get the job done being he said he wanted to play for a contender. Buffalo.

I think his plan A is gone so what is his plan B? Maybe that player isnt available yet. Ngakoue wants to play for a contender to, so I dont think he comes here unless Poles throws him some money or long term contract of which Poles has showed he's not doing that unless he believes he is a core player.

 I listened to this show last night and the reporter they had from Minn laughed when they mentioned Yannick and said he only lasted with them until the bye week.  That's a damning endorsement and whatever issues are behind that there is no denying that no team wants Ngakoue long term.   He might be saying he wants to be a on a playoff caliber team but at this point those options are getting few and far between.  

 

[Mongo3451]

I don't see any free agents that would help much.  If Washington would take a second and fourth for Chase Young, that would be good.

[AZ54]

34 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

I don't see any free agents that would help much.  If Washington would take a second and fourth for Chase Young, that would be good.

Media can attend some OTAs (don't know the Wash policies) so we'll see what is reported about Young.   If there is trade talk among our teams can Poles ask for film of Young from their practices?   2 years into his recovery and just listening to this interview it seems he's still not the same player.   He sounds a bit like what we heard from Jenkins last year so he obviously knows of the trade rumors, plus all the contract noise.  He's a bit coy when it comes to answering questions about his knee.  How will you know you're back?  "Because it'll feel good and it felt good today" (paraphrasing).  These are non-contact practices.  Saying you have your burst back has nothing to do with handling the power of an OT as you try to bend around the edge.  He doesn't even talk about wanting to get back into that which makes me think he's not yet confident in his knee.   

If Poles has any interest I don't know how he answers the questions about the health of that knee.  Right now I'm still sitting at giving up a Day 3 pick due to the unknowns. 

 

 

[Mongo3451]

8 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

If there is trade talk among our teams can Poles ask for film of Young from their practices?

He can ask for anything including all medical records.  

[AZ54]

5 minutes ago, Mongo3451 said:

He can ask for anything including all medical records.  

Thanks

[Mongo3451]

I cut my response short earlier.  Was at my son's football scrimmage.

If Chase Young is feeling good now, he should be able to handle the load during TC.  Athletes have different tolerances and fears than others.  Guys that have been injured before tend to be more confident about the recovery.  Young may be one that has never been in rehab and is confusing scar tissue discomfort for instability.  Hopefully he doesn't have Tommie Harris knees.

[Alaskan Grizzly]

Of the two ‘top tier’ options I give the edge (no pun intended) to Hunter.  I didn’t realize he’s been in the league since ‘15 but as far as durability goes he’s more reliable (so far) than Young has been.  I’d only shy away if they (Minnesota) insisted on getting a 1st round pick in compensation.  Otherwise I don’t think money is much an issue as it is for Minny (??). 

[Stinger226]

I read where Hunter had a neck (pectoral) injury. Its not his knees and makes 24 mil the next two yrs. If Minny wants to tank, trading him in the division would help with that plus Kevin Warren came from Minnesota. This might be a possible situation. Last yr he only played 7 games but had 14 sacks the two previous years. Lets get it done. Offer them the 4th we got from Phil. 

[AZ54]

4 hours ago, Stinger226 said:

I read where Hunter had a neck (pectoral) injury. Its not his knees and makes 24 mil the next two yrs. If Minny wants to tank, trading him in the division would help with that plus Kevin Warren came from Minnesota. This might be a possible situation. Last yr he only played 7 games but had 14 sacks the two previous years. Lets get it done. Offer them the 4th we got from Phil. 

That would be great, trade back one spot and pick up a starting RT and starting DE.  

[Stinger226]

10 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

That would be great, trade back one spot and pick up a starting RT and starting DE.  

Honestly it might take more but I would have no problem giving the 2025 2nd round pick from Carolina to them also. Keeps our own picks.

[ASHKUM BEAR]

I have mentioned Lewis a few times going back to the year he was drafted.  This could be the year he shows up.  If so, it would be a huge pickup by Poles.  With the Rams, they had him in coverage more than rushing the passer.  OTAs may be unpadded, but you can still standout. 

[Stinger226]

I never paid attention to him before but Swifty did a video on him awhile back. It would be nice to have a surprise nobody emerge as a somebody. He has the traits.

 

[Mongo3451]

I remember when you posted the first video on him.  Looking deeper into it, he was cut by the Rams because other guys were developing better into the system.  What that means is anyone's guess, because they said he worked hard, was likeable and was productive.  What Swifty pointed out was a misuse of skill set.  If he is better suited for hand in the dirt vs hybrid edge Swifty may have a point.  We know he won't have that hybrid role here, so we'll have an answer on him by mid season.

[BearFan PHX]

Swifty also makes the point that if (when?) we sign a free agent DE, that will force this guys like Terrell Lewis and D'Anthony Jones out to the margins. It may well be that Poles wants to see these guys and get them some reps before he does that?

[AZ54]

1 hour ago, BearFan PHX said:

Swifty also makes the point that if (when?) we sign a free agent DE, that will force this guys like Terrell Lewis and D'Anthony Jones out to the margins. It may well be that Poles wants to see these guys and get them some reps before he does that?

I can’t imagine thinking we have too much competition.   At best Jones is a practice squad player.  If you look at his play last year so is Dom Robinson.  On the next tier we have have Gipson and Green who are both rotational players.   Walker is the only legit starter in this group.  
 

Much like how adding DJ Moore pushed WRs back into their appropriate slot so would adding another starting DE.  Terrell Lewis has a long way to go for starter snaps but he should be in the competition with Gipson and Green.   
 

P.S.  Every year in minicamp there is a surprise pass rusher who gets great press clippings.   That only lasts until the first day the Oline are allowed to put hands on a defender.  

[BearFan PHX]

8 minutes ago, AZ54 said:

P.S.  Every year in minicamp there is a surprise pass rusher who gets great press clippings.   That only lasts until the first day the Oline are allowed to put hands on a defender.  

So true!

I was just saying what Swifty said in the video. I wouldnt hesitate to add a stud pass rusher to our roster just because it might cost Lewis some reps.

[Stinger226]

I dont think Poles is not getting a DE because of the margin players on the squad. Robinson was a draft pick so he will give him every chance to succeed. He brought in Green and Walker , they arent going anywhere. Gipson is the one to watch, he has to show something or whoever comes in will take his place. The marginal players of Terrell Lewis, D'Anthony Jones, Jalen Harris will have to show something to make the final roster. All 3 could go to the practice squad if Poles wants to keep them.

If Gipson gets cut he will only cost 81 thousand dead cap and save 2.7 mil on the cap. 

Last year they kept 8 DL on the roster , they also always kept 2 to 3 on the practice squad. Remember they changed the rules for that that can include 2 vets.(not just R-1-2 yr players

Billings-Justin Jones-Dexter-Pickens will be the four DTs. I think he hides Travis Bell on the Practice squad unless he shines in the preseason.

Walker-Green-Robinson I think are for sure. Gipson-Lewis could fill the last spot unless he brings in a vet DE. Jalen Harris and D'Anthony Jones could be put on the PS or cut.

One name of interest is Jalen Harris. He played DE in college and some call him a DE and some call him a LB. Poles gave him a  3 yr contract for an UDFA.

[Mongo3451]

6 hours ago, AZ54 said:

That only lasts until the first day the Oline are allowed to put hands on a defender.  

They are laying hands now.  I believe pads are what you are referring to.  Pads give the OL a little help in trying to grab a greased pig.  The defense always looks better early on.

[BearFan PHX]

I dont think Poles is waiting for margin players either - I was saying that Swifty said that in the video.

I also agree that Gipson is the one on the bubble. We have a lot of interesting options, but none is a sure fire top pass rusher.

I still think we sign someone, maybe by trade, sometime this offseason.

[Mongo3451]

1 hour ago, Stinger226 said:

Gipson is the one to watch, he has to show something or whoever comes in will take his place.

I would love to see him ascend. But, if he didn't do it last year, I don't think he will.

[AZ54]

1 hour ago, Mongo3451 said:

I would love to see him ascend. But, if he didn't do it last year, I don't think he will.

I agree.  I like him as depth but GIpson's never been a quick twitch guy nor is he powerful.  He is a good hustle player and with that work ethic he'll likely have a job in the NFL for years to come.  If he can have a good season this year with 5-7 sacks maybe he ends up similar to Roy Robertson-Harris.  RRH signed for 3yr $23mil with the Jaguars after he left Chicago.  

[AZ54]

1 hour ago, Mongo3451 said:

They are laying hands now.  I believe pads are what you are referring to.  Pads give the OL a little help in trying to grab a greased pig.  The defense always looks better early on.

Sure, but you know better than I do for the Olineman it's always different when the pads come on.